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World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Old 11-15-2010, 01:56 AM
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3136
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice



G'day RC34074,
well it is a muffler so it has all the heat from the engine going in it, however with the larger surface area it's dissipated over the entire surface so it's noway near ashot as the stock muffler.
Apparently the standard mufflerrunning atfull revs goes over the db threshold to be legal atclubs here in Victoria, I'm not sure about the restof Australia or O/S.
The pitts style just sneaks in and the canister is about 10% less again
Anyway the canister I used looks quite nice, the header is a little on the light side, not too sure how thatwill stand up over time.
Ithink it's about 8/10ths the sound levelof the supplied muffler.
It will build up heat in the fuse so Iwill build a three sided box with it's inside painted silver and fit it underneatheither behind the scoop or in the scoop with a cutout in the fuse.
I bought it from Wolf Models here in Australia, it was $95 Aust which is about the same exchange rate as US.
http://www.wolfmodels.net/Canisters.html
I just looked at his site and he does ship internationally, dunno what cost though. Drop him a line, Bob is his name and he's very helpful with advice, he's an old time modeler with decades of experience.

I'm starting with a 18x8 hawk prop and when broken I'll use a 19x8, both bought from wolfmodels http://www.wolfmodels.net/Propellers.html
I probably could have bought the engine and parts from China, but I like dealing with someone who speaks my language, gives a warrantee based in my country and has telephone/email support.
Just something to think of before purchasing.

Regards Mark

Old 11-15-2010, 02:21 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice


ORIGINAL: rc34074

ORIGINAL: benjret

Hi guys its Me Again! Today im fying my Miss America with DLE 30. just breakin with only 1 tank (800ml) and go flying! using Turnigy Beech Wood from Hobby King 17x10. my tach readings is 8200rpm. on the air this Plane is Fast but not good for Vertical. but im realy satisfied! Thanks to All of you who giving me Advices to chose DLE 30!

Best Regards..

-JESSY-


benjret - could you post some pictures of your engine installation? With cowl on and cowl off? Were you able to keep from having to cut the cowl much? How did it balance with the Dle30? - did it need weight added anywhere to balance at 175? If it needed weight to balance now much and where?

Thank you

Ed


This is the picture...
i put more ballast on front about 120g. ignition on the top of fire wall inside the cowl. and 2 Lipo for RX and Ignition behind fuel tank



Old 11-15-2010, 09:32 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Thank you to both of you for the replies. I've been wondering how this engine would fit in this plane. Seems like its as good a match for this plane (including weight - doesn't take much to balance the plane) as I thought it would be. My 2300 takes about the same amount of weight to balance as the 120g (4.2 ounces) benjret used.

3136 -I would be very interested in the rpm you get with the props you use with that canister muffler. Seems like a good solution to dealing with the noise limts there. About the same cost as a wrap around muffler. Does the canister act like a tuned pipe? How did you pick that size canister?

Thank you

Ed
Old 11-19-2010, 02:29 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Thank you to both of you for the replies. I've been wondering how this engine would fit in this plane. Seems like its as good a match for this plane (including weight - doesn't take much to balance the plane) as I thought it would be. My 2300 takes about the same amount of weight to balance as the 120g (4.2 ounces) benjret used.

3136 -I would be very interested in the rpm you get with the props you use with that canister muffler. Seems like a good solution to dealing with the noise limts there. About the same cost as a wrap around muffler. Does the canister act like a tuned pipe? How did you pick that size canister?

Thank you

Ed

Hi Ed, I fitted the 18x 8 Hawk prop and I got 8900 rpm. That seems quite high, but the canisters are meant to improve performance.
I tied it to the table on the deck and it was dragging the table, so there is a fair amount of thrust.
That was using 93 unleaded and 30 to 1 castrol 2t oil.
I'm new to gas/petrol engines, would 98 octane give more peformance?

Mark
Old 12-02-2010, 06:16 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Hi Guys..
I just want to show you Flying Video of My Miss America With DLE 30 and Turnigy Beech Wood Prop 17x10.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1HGAAnedY[/youtube]


Enjoy...
Old 12-02-2010, 06:46 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice


ORIGINAL: benjret

Hi Guys..
I just want to show you Flying Video of My Miss America With DLE 30 and Turnigy Beech Wood Prop 17x10.
here is the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z1HGAAnedY


Enjoy... [img][/img]
Looks GREAT!! Now that is how I like to fly- love those strafing runs!! I'll bet you were having a great time flying eh?

Have you tried an 18-10 prop? Also- did you fly the plane as it came out of the box? Or did you modify it somehow? I mean other than installing the controls, engine, etc.

I flew mine with the 2300 and the wt499 carb and it flies very well with this setup. Since I recently moved here to Texas I didn't bring much fuel so I looked att he cost of buying glow fuel vs gas and decided to buy the DLE30, and I am now installing it in my GS mustang. So in a few weeks I will get my chance to compare flight performance with both engines. Looks like if I tilt the Dle30 15 degrees or so it will fit into the cowl without trimming the main cowl very much if any.

Anyway- looks like a great fit for this plane. Thanks for posting the movie.

Ed


Old 12-02-2010, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Hi rc34074..
On that Video im holding the camera. my friend Joseph is the pilot
but i really enjoy flying my Plane with this engine. i don't like 18x10 because is more slower than 17x10.
i planning to use 17x12 but very hard to find here. i fly this plane first
came out of the box 2 months a go. but still using an OS FS 200 non pump. but this engine dont work for my Miss America.
i don't need any modiefied with my plane. still using Pul-Pul System on Elevator&Rudder. as you known i using HXT12K 15kg from Hobby King for elevator, rudder, aileron and retract.! for Flaps and Throtlle im using Futaba S3003
for engine i use DLE 30 Rear Carburator. installed inverted. move 2 lipo to front behind of fuel tank. add More ballast on nose below engine 120g and go to fly.!

Now i just need 2liters of Gas for Flying all day long!

Many thanks..

JESSY
Old 12-06-2010, 01:21 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Flying Video of my Friend Brand New Mustang Rockwell with DLE 30 side carburator and Hawk wood 18x10.. More slower than Mine.. and he got a problem with Retract. cannot close..

Ejoy...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT_QMOIcjzI[/youtube]
Old 12-06-2010, 06:25 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Try a Moki 210 with a 20x10 prop.Much less money also.Tom
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Hi All, have the Miss America version of the GS and the DLE-30. Couple of questions for those that have been there. I noticed that the holes in the firewall are pre-drilled for the supplied engine mount, which I am guessing I will not be using as the DLE is a rear mount stand-off. Did anyone have to extend the firewall or shorten the standoffs? I am about to get into this portion of the build, any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance
Old 02-02-2011, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

so have any of you had prob with the retract system coming up and if so how did you fix it
Old 02-02-2011, 04:48 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Yes, I have. Two things on the retract system. One the picture of the parts list shows the old style placement for the retract servo, which was near the wing root, and covered by the fuse when installed. When I started on the installation I noticed that the hole for my retract servo was well outside the coverage area of the fuselage. I called airborne models and spoke with the rep there. He stated that they moved the retract servo closer to the retract system due to flexing of the rod, and that this closer placement allow for less flexing and bending of the retract rod. I asked what I was supposed to cover this hole with, and that it was rather unsightly sitting out there on the wing. He told me there were two pieces of fabric in the kit and to iron those over the hole.

One problem, the patches are red (red white blue paint scheme) and the hole for the retract servo is in the "blue" area. He is sending me the correct covering. I suggested that the not only fix the manual, but have the factory make a cover similar to those for the ailerons and flap servos. I plan on doing just that.

Now to you original question. My guess is that moving this servo changed a couple of things. One is that the distance is much shorter, and where the tow linkages are connected is now in a different spot. I was having a hell of a time getting them to go down. The servo was binding (luckily I had not screwed it down!) Anyway, I took the whole business apart and found that where the two linkages connected (servo linkage to mechanical retract linkage) was hitting on a rib. basically the whole was not large enough to accommodate where the linkages met, so I had to very carefully widen that hole and voila! It works like a champ.

Hope that helps

Any insight on the mounting of the DLE-30 would be appreciated by anyone following this thread.




Old 02-02-2011, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

thanks for the reply i did do that some time ago on my own with 4-40 rod and i put the servo as close as i could to the gear still have some prob with comming up all the way i did have a brison 2.4 in mine but had prob with the motor and overheating not due to the ship but the motor so im gonna replace it and have allso been looking at dle30 for it
Old 02-04-2011, 08:56 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

ORIGINAL: convair580

Hi All, have the Miss America version of the GS and the DLE-30. Couple of questions for those that have been there. I noticed that the holes in the firewall are pre-drilled for the supplied engine mount, which I am guessing I will not be using as the DLE is a rear mount stand-off. Did anyone have to extend the firewall or shorten the standoffs? I am about to get into this portion of the build, any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance
Convair580-

I am installing the dle30 in my veteran GS mustang now- sort of gradually . To mount the engine I extended the firewall by making a plywood spacer that is about 5/16" thick. I also used this to help figure out how much to rotate the engine to minimize cutting the main cowl. Looks like I will not need to cut the main cowl except to get access to the carb high and low mixture screws. Right now I am deciding how to handle operating the choke. I think I will use a servo to operate it from the radio.. I had also thought about using a different carb with an accelerator pump but for now I will probably stay with the original equipment carb.

I will post a couple of pictures when I get a chance.

Ed

OK - here are the pictures I took - I have had my GS stripped and a new covering cheme done on it - it is now going to be a blue nose mustang, and I bought a new cowl set for this engine and covering setup. This is because my GS is more than 5 years old and the original covering was getting a bit tired. Plus I had had a couple of diferent engines in it and the old cowl was chooped up from this. So now it will be "Cripes-A-Mighty 3rd" when I am done.
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:55 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

any more progress RC ?
Old 03-11-2011, 03:23 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Moki 210Tom
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

My Miss America..


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Old 06-29-2011, 09:44 PM
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convair580
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

I have been lax in posting, life got away from me and I have been flying other models. Quite frankly I am a little nervous about flying such a beautiful bird. Anyway I got her all set up tonight and went to balance her, holy moly! Nose heavy!!!

I have the DLE-30 with a pitts muffler, menze 18x8 prop and I put the ignition battery and switch under the chin cowl, maybe part of the problem, but she is still pretty heavy up front. Balance empty, upside down, gear down, at 175 mm.

Anyone else have forward CG issues?

May have to move ignition batt and rx batt into aft fuse area behind rudder/elevator servos. Not sure.

Thanks in advance



Old 07-02-2011, 03:12 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Hi Convair, I have a canister in mine which sits behind the firewall, my one balanced perfectly first go, (just lucky really)
You may need to move as much as you can to the rear.
Where the scoop attaches behind the wing you can cut some of the balsa panel to gain access to that area.
I did this in mine and I added vents, this was for the canister cooling though.

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Old 07-02-2011, 05:56 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

ORIGINAL: convair580

I have been lax in posting, life got away from me and I have been flying other models. Quite frankly I am a little nervous about flying such a beautiful bird. Anyway I got her all set up tonight and went to balance her, holy moly! Nose heavy!!!

I have the DLE-30 with a pitts muffler, menze 18x8 prop and I put the ignition battery and switch under the chin cowl, maybe part of the problem, but she is still pretty heavy up front. Balance empty, upside down, gear down, at 175 mm.

Anyone else have forward CG issues?

May have to move ignition batt and rx batt into aft fuse area behind rudder/elevator servos. Not sure.

Thanks in advance



I have not had cg issues with mine - I built it with separate servos for each elevator half that are located under the horizontal stabilizer. The rudder and tail wheel operate from a high torque servo mounted under the cockpit with a 4-40 threaded steel pushrod from this servo back through the fuselage to the rudder and tailwheel. This moves a fair amount of weight toward the tail.

If you have the pitts muffler at the bottom of the cowl there will be a lot of heat on the ignition battery and switch - I would move them away from that heat. But I wouldn't put them back by the radio - you might get rf problems by doing that and get radio glitches. With a gas engine you should keep all the ignition items separated from the rest of the radio items. But I will say that some have found that they can use a single battery for both radio and ignition without having problems so you might be ok doing what you are talking about. Just do it carefully.

I will add that its probably better to have a cg forward of where they say it should be instead of rearward - I once set mine up with a cg about 3/8 rearward and this resulted in the plane snapping out att he top of a loop with a very fast snap. I was impressed that this big plane stayed together cinsidering how fast it snapped. Sooooo- definitely avoid a rearward cg.

Ed



Old 07-03-2011, 10:41 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

I moved the ignition batt and rx batt just behind the most rearward servo and it balance just fine. We took it to the field yesterday and did a 4 hour preflight getting everything ready. I am a capable pilot but wanted one of the clubs most experienced at the helm. So my friend came out and we went through the entire airplane, balanced and all. Then we started talking and thats where the problems started.

We decided to remove the cowl just in case of a nose over, then due to my lack of modeling experience I did not have bushing in the spinner backplate to accommodate the DLE shaft, spinner back plate hole was too big and we worried about vibration, that came off. Anyone see where this is going?

Anyway, satisfied with our work we sat at the end of the runway with an un-cowled, no spinner P-51.

She lept off the ground (our first clue) he hauled it around calling for nose down trim (our second clue) anyway it was wild to watch. He ran it through its paces and tried a stall - violent was the word he used.

After four passes at the field she never would "settle", anyway he finally got her within 2 feet of terra firma and she plopped on the runway catching the prop and ground looping. Using forward stick to get it down (last clue)

First let me say that the World Model GS can take QUITE a beating. I was very impressed that the only damage was a tweaked left main and the prop.

So, like pilots do, we stared at it for a while and finally came up with the notion that neither one of us thought about all the weight we took off the front. Two pilots, both RC and full scale, and we thought HOLY S&^%, we didn't think of THAT. Sounds like an easy mistake, but let me tell you after studying CRM and human factors extensively it is easier to get to this spot than you think.

Anyway, we called it a day and he is going to fabricate a bushing for the spinner and we will spinner it up and add weight for the cowl and try it again.

I post this to educate those who have not flown this bird yet that the CG is obviously CRITICAL, as someone else pointed out in a previous post, even 3/8" can make a big difference. I will keep anyone interested in further flights.

Bottom line is bone head mistake that could have cost me the model. Had I not had a VERY capable pilot at the controls i would be salvaging parts in my garage today.

Hope this helps someone.

CV580
Old 07-03-2011, 09:55 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

I made the bushing and got the spinner and hardware together and weighed it, we flew the airplane with out 9oz on the front. Yep, over 1/2 lb on the nose of the airplane. I suspect our CG could have been well more than an inch aft.

Tonight I started playing with the CG of the P-51 on RF5.5 and it didn't start acting like the real one did until it was another 3" aft, and even then I was able to get it on the runway fine. Add some nerves and some wind and there you go.

Now that we have worked out the spinner deal we will get it all mounted up and check it over real good. I suspect the airplane will fly fine once it's got a sane CG.
Old 07-03-2011, 11:56 PM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Glad you got it down in one piece.
That great planes 5.5 isn't very realistic on some of the models.
I have a friend who uses the pt40 trainer (which acts like the real thing) and can't fly it, but he can fly the mustang. ***???
I'm dissapointed with it, it's almost impossible to stall a plane in it either, I know if you drop the throttle on my stang it will stall big time, and it's hard to land without flaps.
Not so on 5.5 though.

PS I got my COG right and added a full tank after that so it would be pretty nose heavy most of the flight. Gas tanks don't drop much in flightand it usually has 7/10th of a tank after landing.
Old 07-04-2011, 04:20 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

I will add to my message above that even with the 3/8 inch rearward cg the ONLY issue I had with its flight performance was when it snapped out at the top of a loop. It did not snap when landing with this rearward cg with a "normal" landing speed. I didn't fly it again until I fixed the cg - I knew i had messed up the cg because I had previously flown this plane with ther spcified cg and it had never snapped like that, even when it had too little airspeed to complete a loop- it just dropped out of the loop and immediately was flying again after it gained a little airspeed. Also even after it snapped I had full flight control right after the snap.

I have found that this plane will slow down to a VERY slow airspeed when landing without dropping a wing, and it lands VERY easily/slowly even without flaps. This did not change when I had the cg 3/8 inch rearward. So I consider this to be a very good flying plane, on a par with any warbird out there, and as good as most sport planes and aerobats. To me it flies as easily as the 60 size mustangs I have flown - but it does require more room when flying and because it is heavier you need to paln ahead a little more - don't let the plane fly you- you fly the plane eh?

On the other hand I don't deliberately slow it to a crawl when landing as a standard practice. Sudden wind gusts etc could blow it over, etc. In crosswinds I always land faster.

Ed
Old 07-04-2011, 09:22 AM
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Default RE: World models 80 inch p51 engine advice

Thanks for that info Ed, that helps a ton.

We have some CG work to do, but also some engine tuning to do. The DLE 30 was running pretty rich still.

Once we have those issues worked out I would like to spend some time really trimming out the airplane, working on setup, and breaking in the engine. Once I have some time on it and we are both very comfortable that it's consistent then I would like to get the buddy box out and start transition training. CV580 is a good pilot and won't have any problems flying the airplane, just need to get it handling correctly and some experience and he will be good to go. I suspect he will really enjoy this model.

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