campbellj

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum and have had a huge interest in planes for a while now. I've been into RC for 20 years now, but only with 1/10 and 1/8 scale cars and trucks. I have really been getting bored with stuff on the ground and want to venture off to planes. I bought my first simulator a week or so ago (phoenix v3) and love it! I can fly on it for hours and never get bored with it, so I've made the decision to go ahead and jump and get a plane. One thing I learned with cars and trucks is to never go soft on buying a radio and get the best one I can afford. Looking at all the radio options has me really confused though as to how many channels Ineed. I've been trying to read up and reasearch as much as possible but I am still confused when it comes to when and if to use Y cables, matchbox's, or get a radio with enough channels to do everything I want.

I've been to two local hobby shops recently and got several recommendations to go with an ultra stick 40 for my first plane, simply because I can grow into it and will not get bored with it after I learn how to take off and land properly plus being able to convert it to a tail dragger after I get comfortable on tricycle gear. After a couple days on the sim, I'm having no problem landing any plane on there, Ijust have problems lining them up with the runway most of all and then some confusion when the plane is coming towards me I will react and turn the wrong way, but Iknow withmore practice those thingswill work themselves out of the way. Iread a long thread on here about the ultra stick, and I'm very excited to make that my first plane. That being said, I already know what my second plane will be when I get to that point. I've wanted a warbird for years and years, so I seen the hanger9 blue nose p-51 on the web a few weeks ago and fell in love with it also. I pretty much have my mind made up on the planes I want for numbers 1 and 2. I just don't know how to go about choosing a radio system to work with both planes very well, keep the Y cables to a minimum if any, and stay out of the really crazy price ranges.

I'm not looking for a brand war, just recommendations on how many channels I can make it by with. I'm convinced that all the major mfg's make good radios, I'm just gonna choose what feels the best to me, but As far as controls, both planes I want have flaps and ailerons, so that is already 4 servos, plus rudder, elevator, throttle, the p-51 has 2 for retracts, and I love smoke so havinga smoke pump is something I want. I know whatever radio I choose that can control the p-51 will also work for the stick, so how many channels would you recommend for all that on the p-51? If I needed to Y anything together, could you explain what andwhy?

Right now I am leaning towards a JR 9503, here is the scenerio I was thinking to use the channels. throttle, elevator, rudder, left aileron, right aileron, Y connect the flaps, Y connect the retracts, smoke pump and that would leave 1 open spot. Is this configuration the proper way or should it be done a different way? Should flaps be connected individually?Retracts?If so that's 2 more channels and the 9503 wouldn't work and the next step up is getting out of my price range. Could I use a matchbox anywhere on there? This is what is getting confusing to me. If there is a thread about any of this please feel free to point me to it. Any help is appreciated! Thanks

irdabrit

I believe for the crow on the ultra stick 40 you will need seven channels (or six and a Y) but I don't agree with it as a first plane. I do however personally agree with you on the radio - buy the best and grow into it. I'm planning on getting the Jr 11x over the winter, but it really depends on your budget. You might want to look at a used Dx6i or DX7 as a great, low-cost starting point.

jester_s1

If you're working with an instructor the stick should be fine, and you can play with the flaps to get used to them for the P51. I'm not sure about going straight from a stick to a P51 though. A low wing sport plane lets you get used to the way a low wing plane acts in the wind and the way it looks in flight. As for radios, if you can afford it the 9503 will be plenty. You could do with less by Y harnessing ailerons, flaps, and retracts allowing you to get away with 6 channels. You'd have to reverse a couple of servos, but that's not hard to do. I like the Airtronics RDS8000 for a lower cost option (have one) but it doesn't have nearly the programming options as the 9503 for IMAC type flying.

corch

My Feedback: (1)

If $500-$600 is your budget, I would look at these:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk9255.html
http://www.futaba-rc.com/systems/futk8010.html
http://www.airtronics.net/index.php/...-sx-sd10g.html (I have no experience with these radios but know a lot of guys that do, and they are real happy with them)

If you think you are going up to scale type warbirds w/smoke, bomb drops, etc. I would get 10 channel minimum. Plus don't forget on many larger planes you'll have 2 servos for the elevator (1 for each half) and possibly a gang of 2 or more servos for the rudder.

I spoke with Chip Hyde a couple of weeks ago about the Futaba 8/14 channel and he was pretty excited about it. That, to me anyways, says something.

I'm torn on my next radio purchase between the 8 and 10 channel Futaba....

Another point to consider is what is your instructor using or what the other guys use where you will be flying....their help is often easier than digging through the manual....

campbellj

Yes, I would definitely be using an instructor.  Really the only thing I bought the sim for is just to get used to orientation of the plane at all angles and just to get a general idea of how to fly.  I don't think the sim can replace an instructor by any means, so I plan to have one.  Honestly I would like all the plane orientation to become second nature from the sim, before I even put my first plane in the sky.   That's another reason they talked me into the stick, because I said I was planning to have assistance with it besides the sim. 

As far as the p-51, my plans is to be extremly comfortable with my first plane, before that one ever goes up, and I would probably get an instructor for the first couple times with it, just to help me transfer from one to the other.  I know crashes are gonna happen, but I plan to try and take every precaution I can to try and prevent them.  I'll take all the one on one time I can get for both planes. 

The 9503 is in my budget, but that's pretty much the top of it.   If I can get by with a 9 channel system for my wants/needs and have everything set up correctly then that would be great.    

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I know it sounds like the members here are trying to hold you back. And I have no doubt in my mind that you "plan" on taking every precaution when moving to that second plane. But there is a reason why they are recommending that you hang on to that P-51 until you get more experience with at least one other plane, preferably a low wing sport plane that was mentioned about. A 4-Star, Super Sportster, or Tiger 2 or 60 are all great choices. These members are speaking from experience. Even if you "take every precaution" before you move to that P-51 the likelihood that it will survive for very long isn't all that good. Moving from your trainer to that P-51 would be sort of like leaving your driver's ed course and going straight to driving at NASCAR. The P-51 just isn't  a second plane. Warbirds are designed to be fast, maneuverable, and difficult to see in the (so it's hard for the enemy to spot them). All of these characteristics scale down with the model as well. 

campbellj

The Futaba 10cg looks interesting, and yes, scale warbirds is my thing. That's what I like, I dunno if I would go as far as bomb drops and all the extra stuff, but at least smoke will probably happen. The guys at the lhs was pointing out to me that the giant scale birds have pretty much double servos for everything, but as of right now, I don't see myself going to very large scale like that because of the amount of money they cost, and I got a family to feed, besides the fact I would have to buy another vehicle just to transport them around.

As irdabrit was pointing out, I have studied the JR 11x quite a bit, I think it has enough features, Itappears to be a great radio, and I could probably save an extra month or so and get that one, but it's a little to big and my hands don't fit it that well, which is another deciding factor for me, on the other hand, on my sim, I find myself pinching the sticks all the time and never using my thumbs, so it probably wouldn't be an issue. Having the extra channels and features of the 11x would possibly be worth the extra money if I was for sure Ineeded it. I would rather buy once now, then have to replace a radio later because I'm running out of room, but would rather not have to if it's something I would not use to it's full potential.

I am not biased towards JR, by any means, but the one thing that sold me on JR was the fact that I could buy bind n fly planes down the road in the future to play with at parks ect.. and would have a radio that automatically links up to them. That's my reason for JR. Futaba, Airtronics, Hitec all make excellent radios with more features than Iwould ever use probably, at least until I learn all about them. And spektrum radios have been on my list also, but their highest is 8ch in my price range, and the p-51 would max it out, and that would be having to y cable more stuff.

Is Y-cables just as well as running it individually? What is the advantages of having all servos going to an individual channel besides being able to sub-trim everything by it's self?

scooterinvegas

My Feedback: (1)

X2

scooterinvegas

My Feedback: (1)

Just remember, when the plane is coming toward you, LOW WING GETS THE STICK. Memorize it.

campbellj

Oh no, I totally understand the advise coming from the other members. Let's say, the p51 goes up on my list to my 3rd or 4th plane after I train on a low wing trainer, then a low wing sport plane. I still want to buy a radio now that will cover that plane then, and others like it, will 9 channels bemore than enough? Sufficient?or on the edge of not having enough? I think the words 'beginner' and 'p-51' doesn't go together and took my actual questions about radios off track, lol.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I've been flying for 15 years now and until I started doing reviews I never needed more than 5 channels for any plane I flew. The P-51 you are looking at can be flown on 7 channels. This happens a lot of times with people getting into the hobby, they look to get a "huge" radio and they aren't even sure of their needs yet. Yes, you want to get a radio that can last you down the road for awhile, but you don't need to spend money on a radio system that is more than you will ever use as well. Any good 9 channel radio will last you for just about anything you are ever going to do for years to come. If asked my recommendation I would say to get the Airtronics SD-10G. I have a high-end 9 channel Futaba, 9 channel JR, and the Airtonics radio and I use them all. But if asked my opinion I would go with the Airtronics any time. In my opinion it's one of the best radios out there. However, you will do well with Futaba, JR, or Hitec as they all make good radios. Forget about the JR 11x as you don't need that much radio.

Ken

jester_s1

The advantage of each servo having its own channel vs. Y cables are being able to do the sub trim as you mentioned, and being able to fine tune the end points of each servo without need a matchbox. It's really only a big deal when you're dealing with multiple servos on one surface like the big planes have.

rlipsett

multiple channels for servos are good if you want to use flaperons which is a cheap way to turn ailerons into flaps sort of and this also helps with some 3d mixes and tighter turning radius for 3d flying. 9 channels is a good number of channls that you should almost never hit but what you want is good mixing in the computer case in point the 6exa and 7c(72mhz) from futaba is lacking in computer mixing. there 9c 10c and 7c(2.4) has good mixing settings. I am most familiar with futaba so any other systems you would need other advice.

JRgraham

My Feedback: (1)

Unless you want Spectrum for Bind and Fly, Take a look at the new Futaba 8FGA Super. Its the latest technology, out of the box 8 channel, but is 14 channel ready. All the latest software, upgradable by use of data transfer by SD card, and has Serial Bus capability (allows you to add unlimited servo's with individual control). Also newest 8 channel reciever is High Voltage ready (can use Lipo's for Rx pack w/o needing a regulator or BEC)... to touch on a few neat things.

You shouldnt need anything more for years, and its under $500.

campbellj

Bind and Fly was my main reason for wanting to go with JR/Spektrum.  Other than that reason, I have been really checking out the 8fg, and it seems to be a really nice setup!   I love the fact that it's updateable via SD card, was originally 8 channel, now 14?  That's very impressive, and makes me feel like that's a feature that should be on every transmitter this day in age, sucks the 9503 doesn't have it.  And unfortunately  the 8fg, is not compatible with bind and fly, so I started reading about the DX8 again.   That radio has very impressive specs, but I keep reading about problems that could exist with it, so that steers me away.   As I said earler, I would definitely consider the 11x, it's updateable via SD card, bind and fly compatible, plenty enough channels, and not that many horror stories about it, but as  RCKen stated, it's too much radio for me, and it's kind of big and bulky.  Every one of these radios has some things I like, things I don't like, looks like it's gonna take me longer to weigh out all my options.  Just when I think I've made up my mind too......

On my lunch break today, I went to another LHS today, just to check them out, and see if any just stood out to me once and for all.  The guy behind the counter seemed to hate life all together.   I told him that I am looking for a radio that I can grow with, and learn to fly, but still have enough radio later on down the line that I could possibly get into scale aircraft.  I never mentioned anything about any warbird.  His first response was, "yeah, I get that alot, I don't understand what's wrong with all you beginners"  " all you need is the alpha trainer RTF, or somthing like it, and then after a couple of years when you learn how to fly it, your beginner radio will be outdated and destroyed, and you will be wanting something better.  Then we can upgrade you to a mid-range radio and a low wing trainer,  then after tons of practice with that I wouldn't see any issue with you getting a "fancy radio with all that stuff no one needs""  5 channels is 1 channel too many"   Then he went on about, I should get a foam electric super cub, simply because he thinks nitro engines are not for beginners and not just anyone can tune them, so stay with electric until I learn how to fly.   I know he meant well, but I see no reason to lose a sell over talking that way, good thing there's more than 1 shop in my area. 

JollyPopper

My Feedback: (6)

Seven channels are all you will need for a couple years. We realize you are all excited, as well you should be, and are getting way ahead of yourself, but once you actually get in to this madness, you will understand. You will undoubtably be having so much fun and satisfaction from it that you won't even think of all the exotic and swoopy stuff you are planning right now. Just experimenting with take offs and landings, prop selection, glow plug changes, keeping yourself in fuel at $25.00/gallon and on and on ad nauseum will crowd those thoughts right out of your head. Then after a couple of years and lots of fun later you will again start thinking about smoke, bomb drops, dual servos for the elevator, pull/pull rudder, a servo in each wing for the ailerons, etc. But for now, there are very few planes out there that can't be flown on four channels, and that is where most of us start.

irdabrit

Sounds like the response I got too. Ignore them; he's probably just cranky and been in the hobby for a long time and doesn't like the direction it's going. He also might be jaded because a lot of people ask for advice and then go buy online - I know when I was heavily into paintball we had a lot of that at the store; people would come in, spend an hour asking what they should get and then go buy it online. When they of course broke it because they had no idea what they were doing and bought beyond their ability, they'd want us to fix it for free - and most of the time I would do it. Why? Because good customer service meant that they could come back *next time* and buy from me. To this day I have people who have bought markers from me recomend my store, even though it doesn't exist anymore (sniff).

I pretty much got the same response when I first when to my LHS and did end up buying that Cub, and while it did teach me to fly very quickly I also outgrew it extremely quickly. Within a few weeks I needed something with ailerons and so switched to Glow (my entire club flies glow exclusively).

It is possible for a beginner to tune an engine. Everyone has to learn and start somewhere and if you have a good head on your shoulders (which you do) then it's no problem. Of course if the beginner in question is a younger person who is impatient and has no instruction, then it could be bad but there are always exceptions.

I'm putting together an Alpha 40 for the club and it's a decent trainer for the price, but they seem to have discontinued it. However something comparible is readily available and there's plenty of options.

I think most LHSs try to push electrics because it's a simple sale to them, especilly with the DSM/RTF kits. With glow you're going to need a bunch of equipment on top of the trainer and radio that really does push up the initial price, but once you've got it you will use it for years.

I too have been looking at the 8FG as a cheaper alternative to the 11x, but one thing to bear in mind is to check out the local clubs and see what people use there. Makes getting a buddy box instructor a lot easier if you all use the same brand of radios. I honestly think you'll be happy with whatever you buy, and in the end it's really down to budget.

Oh, one last thing. I've noticed there's a really good market for used Spektrum equipment, but not so much for Futaba. I imagine this is for the bind-n-fly market, so a lot of people keep *both* brands so they can use a BNF if needed. I still am not sure which way to go, but I have all winter to decide!

In short; look at a used DX6i or DX7 for around $120 to $170ish. It will keep you going for a long, LONG time and while there are reports of problems with them, every radio system can fail. Just stay away from the cheapo clone receivers (unless they're in a plane you are okay with possibly loosing to a disconnection) and always use 6v Rx packs.

When you're more confident of your skills you can maybe step up to the Jr (and keep all your Rx compatibility) and sell the Dx6i/DX7 or buy the Futaba and keep the DX6i/DX7 for BNF aircraft (or sell it).

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Or, as Ken suggested, the Airtronics SD-10G.

jester_s1

How important are the BNF planes to you right now? If that's something you're thinking of a year or two down the road, it won't be a big deal to pick up a used DX6i for them. At your pricepoint, I love the Airtronics and Futaba units for a main radio.

campbellj

Like I said, I know the guy meant well, it was just his attitude and body language while he was talking that irritated me, but like you all said, he probably gets it all the time then people go buy online.  But if you work in a hobby shop, it should excite you for newcomers to come into the hobby, it shouldn't be an irritating thing.  That was just an off topic rant anyways. 

I know I'm over excited about all this, and want to get a radio with all the gadgets.  I'm a techie type person and love having gadgets, I randomly read instuction manuals for things instead of books, that's just how I am, lol, probably just something in my blood.  Simple stuff bores me, I love figuring out stuff and making things work, once it works and I know how to do it, I move on to the next challenge.   I've been an auto tech for 12 years for BMW and random exotic cars, that's a challenge in itself everyday at work and there is always something new to learn, especially with all the electrical problems that come my way day to day, so I guess that's where I naturally want "all the buttons", even though I know it's more than I need at the moment.  If that makes any sense at all. 

With my sim,  came a DX5e, it's great for the sim, and more than likely I will pick up a super cub, learn how to fly it and give it all to my 8 year old son and teach him how to fly it,  he's already taking stuff apart, putting things back together, using technical tools yada yada, all the stuff I was doing at his age, so I think he would love it, and it's the 1 thing his mother hasn't bought him.  (he lives with her, not me)

One thing I do know is that as of right now, I think at a maximum of what the airtronics SD-10G radio gives, is PLENTY enough to deal with for a long time to come, and a great price tag,  I've been a huge airtronics fan since my first airtronics radio 4 radios ago and stayed with the brand since, more so because of the balance of the radio in my hand, screen real estate, and the fact that I never had 1 problem with airtronics.  Futaba was my first radio, but I quickly moved into airtronics because of feel.  I am just yet to find a lhs to find the airtronics and feel it in my hand.  JR/Spektrum seems to dominate everyones inventory. 

I like to purchase everything locally instead of online, around here, they all price the same as online prices anyways, and building a relationship with a shop is always a good thing IMO.  So, going by what they keep in stock,  it looks like my decision will come down to DX8, aurora 9 or 9503, anything more than that would be a waste of money to me.  The place I was at yesterday still had a couple DX7s in stock, but why not ride the technology train and move on.  Obviously both has things I like/dislike, but it seems now after reading more and more the 2 main things the 9503 has over the DX8 is 1 channel for the sliders on the sides and a higher price tag.  And going from the all the responses in this thread, I can get by without that 1 channel and save some money to drop on something else, or the Aurora 9 has that extra channel and is still cheaper, but it has a wire hanging out the back for unknown reasons and is not BnF compatible.   

As I stated earlier, I really really like the fact that the DX8 has an SD card, mainly for updates more than model memory for me.  The reason I like that is because everytime I get an over the air update on my cell phone, it's like getting a new cell phone with all these new features to figure out and play with, so that's kind of important to me.   And after watching countless videos of setup on youtube for both, the DX8 seems more user friendly and it seems that it's the number 1 choice right now, which is probably the reason we hear about problems with it.  Same with Iphone, it's an awesome phone, number 1 seller,  number 1 with the amount of problems because of so many units sold, I guess it goes hand in hand. A9 is updatable via hardwire to computer which works for me too.   

Telemetry is cool, I like the idea of it, though I don't think it's down to a science yet, but when it is, it's just a free update on the DX8.  Too bad it don't have fuel level, could be on the way, who knows, that would be as useful as knowing how much battery life is left in electric planes.  A9 has fuel level, although none of this is required to have, most of you guys have been flying for years and years, just know when to bring it in and land. A beginner like myself, it would be nice knowing things are getting low and should start bringing it to a close.  That said, telemetry is an extra feature on the A9 and costs more money upfront, which it comes with the DX8

A9 definitely has the nicest screen, the DX8 seems to have a little less complicated setup, but once learning what everything is anyways, setup would be a breeze on any of them.   Model memory means nothing to me, I wouldn't ever see myself having 30 planes that I fly all the time and need on 1 radio.  Maybe a couple big ones and a few bnf's for fun around in the back yard ect...

Thanks for all the positive comments and recommendations.  Now that I've got all the big, really expensive setups out of my head, I can finally focus on a few well within my budget and try and decide what is the best one for me. 

Montague

I'll admit right off that I skimmed some earlier posts, so if I'm repeating what anyone else has said, sorry about that.

One thing I didn't see mentioned was that the number of channels isn't everything. Going with a better radio from the start means having features like throttle curves, built in ganging of servos, fancy mixes and all that available. Sure, you won't use it for a while. You probably won't use 75% of a fancy radio ever.

But not having that one thing or the other is annoying as heck. My wife has a DX7, and I have a 9303. Getting the throttle response right for her on our 50cc extra on the dx7 has been a royal pain because it doesn't have throttle curve. I'm thinking of getting a dx8 or something like that just for that throttle curve. (yes, I could fix the throttle feel mechanically, but there are reasons I don't want to do that, mostly time-related).

Another feature found on the 9303 (9503) and not the dx7 is adjustable trim sensitivity. If you have a plane set up with large throws, being able to dial down the trim levers to avoid needing half a click of trim to get level is worth the money. (I'm sure other brands have this as well, but I speak JR/Spektrum best)

And so on. If you know you'll be flying for a while, buying the best you can afford is the way to go for sure.

That said, you CAN fly a lot of models on a basic 6 channel radio plus some y-harnesses, matchbox-type things (Smartfly makes one that costs less and looks nice, I just got one in a raffle and it looks good on the bench so far). Most guys I see at the field with the fancy radios never do get past using a bit of expo and maybe dual rates. So don't feel like you need anything fancy, most guys don't. There's a guy at my field who flys giant scale warbirds with all the bells and whistles on a DX7.

And it's hard not to roll eyes at the new guy with the 12x and .60 size Mustang he can't keep in a straight line to save his life. fancy radios don't replace solid fundimental setup and flying skills. (not that anyone said they did, just saying)

opjose

All of those are great TX's...

I really like the 9503 and I've already had mine upgraded for free to DSMx without loosing backward compatibility with my existing RX's.

Montague

Btw, don't forget to actually hold the TX before you buy it. I have short fingers and can't hold most TX's well with out using a neck strap, so the TX has to balance and feel right on a neckstrap for me. My wife likes the lighter, thinner feeling TX's like the DX7 (the DX8 isn't bad there either). Guys with big hands sometimes don't like the DX7 or 8.

Doesn't the Aurora 9 do the telemetry thing? And the DX8 apparently can vibrate as well as beep on the timer and such (which would drive me nuts, I think). It's a non-trivial amount of money, so if you can find someone local who has one to play with a little, it might be worth your time.

campbellj

I stopped at another lhs yesterday to actually pick up a dx8, they had several in stock, several 9503's and a couple 8fg's.  The worker there was very nice and helpful, but completely talked me out of getting a dx8.  I have no clue if there is any truth to this, but he was telling me that a lot of the fields are banning spektrum/JR products until all of the "bugs" are worked out.  He honestly felt like there is saftey issues right now with spektrum and told me not to buy it, and really consider the Futaba.  I told him I would definitely do more research and might end up going with the futaba, which was fine with him.  He honestly seemed happier to let me leave empty handed and think again, instead of putting another spektrum radio out there, although he said he would sell it to me if that's what I really wanted... I decided to wait a little longer, think it through, read more reviews over again, yada yada. 

This place did not stock A9's, but going by feel the Futaba did feel better in my hands, since I have small hands.  Two things that held me back from buying the Futaba was a buddy of mine that actually used to work at that hobby shop said Futaba's are alot more difficult to work through and program compared to spektrum and Jr, (but that's probably ok becuase I love to figure stuff out and read manuals) and my wife and I are planning to move back to south florida in a couple months and I would like to know what all the locals there are using.  After reading more and more on the forums, it seems that getting the "common" radio for the area you live in is wise because of the fact that there is help with it around the corner if needed.  So, now I am trying to find someone that lives in S. Florida, preferably someone that fly's at Markham Park, or the one up north around West Palm Beach so I can ask and see what the majority of people is using there, since those would be the 2 main fields I will go to.  That could influence my decision also.  

Overall, I'm glad this guy was honest with me and not just trying to make a sell.  I will definitely return there when I do decide on something.

kiwibob72

As for Specktrum and all the glitch's people rant about, I've been running a DSM2 DX6i on my 50 sized nitro heli now for 18 months without a single issue - EVER.
I 'personally' think a lot of the DSM2 brown out issues came from people running 4.8volt RX packs, and then letting them get two low. Being as I'm on a 6 volt pack for both my plane and heli, and I'm anal about the amount of juice left in the pack when I fly, this might have something to do with the lack of issues. The newer DSMX system might be something you want to read up on yourself
JR, Futuba, Hitec and Specktrum are all good radio manufacturer's, and to my understanding, they all have had recalls of alerts over new system issues. Get the best you can afford as you intended, it'll save you money down the line.
As for the number of channels needed to fly that H9 blue nose mustang, as I also have one (just brought it this week), you CAN fly that on a minimum of 6 channels, you just need to use Y-cables, and reversing Y-cables to hook up things like the flaps, retracts and ailerons and get each of these functions that have more than one servo working on one single channel vs being run off a few mixed ones as you would do in a perfect world situation - they even state you can use a 6ch system in the Hangar 9 video where they introduce that plane.
As for learning with harder than standard aircraft, a 450 sized electric collective pitch heli is about a hard a thing to fly as you can get - and that's what I learned to fly on originally without a sim, and without assistance (planes came later). While NOT a recommended approach, I made do with the only option open to me at that time, so I put a plan in place, and took it one step at a time, and managed to do it solo.
IF you can, work with an instructor if there is ANY way of doing so, it will save you a fortune in lost time and parts (planes), and get you where you want to be sooner rather than later.
Just my 2 cents.