fatfreddy17

My Feedback: (43)

Only a matter of time, somecompany rips off a copy, then a copy of a copy,,, and the price drops ,, and drops,,

marc s

There will be two manufacturers that I know of making this or the M346 which is almost identical very soon - GDS and C&C models (from memory) GDS incidentally are also the manufacturers of the Fiat G91 which I believe came 2nd at the WJM.....

As for 'ugliest' well thats a personal thing, for me its kinda cute and seems to fly very well which is always a bonus.

marcs

Harley Condra

My Feedback: (4)

Why was the builder of the model rule dropped?

Geoff White

Harley,

There never actually was a builder of model rule in the strictest sense. Instead, there were two classes, individual and team. The individual class was for models that were built and flown by one individual and the team class was for a model that was built by a person other than the flyer. Some years ago(3-4 from memory) the IJMC scrapped these two classes and replaced them with a 20Kg and a 13.5Kg class.


Geoff.

Harley Condra

My Feedback: (4)

"Built and flown by one individual" seems to remind me of the builder of the model rule by another name......maybe it should be adopted.

jroth

My Feedback: (60)

Harley,

I think that IJMC has a different focus than some other competitions. I think they are looking for the most scale jet models in the world. That is why the judging is different.

I have asked IJMC about the builder rule, using fuel as ballast and gyros. The answer seemed to be it was too difficult to police and everybody knows that. If the World Jet Masters has different rules than the US competitions, that just makes it different.

John

Geoff White

Ignoring the fuel and gyros question as thats another whole topic. I agree with John. In my opinion the reason why they scrapped the individual class is that it was becoming impossible to police.

As an example, you could buy a skygate hawk at various stages of build, right up to turnkey. At what point are you not the builder? when you don't do the finishing? when you don't do any structural work? Its a complete minefield and thats before we even start discussing other ARTFS. Another example, what is you buy an ARTF but in white gelcoat and finish/detail it yourself. Are you the builder?

Having said all that, I believe F4C still manage to police it by using workmanship rules but I believe even this causes problems. For example, I heard of a case where a contestant turned up at a contest with a beautiful venom, built from a Mick reeves kit and was awarded low marks as the static judges said it as built from an ARTF as the fuselage/booms are supplied epoxy mouldings.

Just my opinions.

Geoff.

john agnew

Geoff

Just to go slightly off topic I understand that at Top Gun you got extra marks for having a built-up wing as opposed to a moulded one. BV took advantage of that rule by entering BVM models with built up wings.

I seem to remember having to sign a declaration at the 2007 WJM that I was the builder of my model in individual class but my memory may be playing tricks.[]

John

jroth

My Feedback: (60)

On the Contestant's Declaration Sheet, IJMC does award bonus points for "MODEL ORIGIN":
full composite = 0
traditional kit with foam or built up wings = 10
own design developed into kit = 30
one off own design = 50

but it does not really address the builder/ flyer idea.

John

Radical Departure

My Feedback: (13)

An absolutely stunning build... certainly kicked things up a notch in scale..

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Any model that does not have pre-finished wings and surfaces (and/or fuselage) and has had that finish and surface detail added by the modeler, is eligible for a 2% bonus at Top Gun. As I understand it, the 80" BV F-86 was designed with non-composite wings to take advantage of that fact - as well as probably being less expensive and possibly lighter...

Bob

airega1

My Feedback: (204)

Bottom line, it is a model! and at 500,000 who would even want to fly it?

Mark H

ME ME ME ME ME form a queue
Regards Mark H

Mark H

Id love to fly it , once it goes out of the door its just a plane,,
a beautiful plane but it was built to fly ..
Well done Vitaly .
regards Mark Hinton..

drdoom

My Feedback: (9)

Like it or not It has forever changed WJM contest. I wonder how may people it took to build it. Most of it beyond even experienced modeler's, as those IP's.
Is the figure in yen, franks or us dollars???

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

No matter what the medium, an area, like modeling, always benefits from an "unlimited" competition. I hope that the IJMC does not do anything to discourage this type of development. Now, they may want to consider some type of additional classes to allow more people to compete without this type of investment, like FTE with with the Pro-Am class at Top Gun (which I think is great - someday when I have the time, I'm going to do it). It sounds like that's sort of what they tried to do with the 13 kG class, but maybe they need more - maybe not...

Bob

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Actually, I was lucky enough to be able to fly a model that NASA valued in that range. It wasn't as much fun as flying my own, lower cost models, but it was satisfying in other ways - especially when it was safely back on the ground! A model like that is built to fly. Who would want to build one like that and *not* fly it?

Bob

DocYates

My Feedback: (102)

The IJMC WJM does give a bonus in the scoring for your own design and building. It however has to be applied for and documented, which generally starts about to to three months prior to the competition. There is also a bonus for built up vs. composite wings on kits such as the BVM F-86.
Vitaly Yak is amazing. Nothing compares to it when you get close to it. From the fully functioning cockpit to the detailed engine inlet turbine covers. The landing gear is a work of art. And all of this weighs less than 44 pounds. I know that on Oleg's Mig 27 the gear was electric and CNC'ed from titanium, and am pretty sure the same is true of the Yak. Both of these models were awesome, but the Yak is simply stunning. I do believe you can have the Mig27 cheaper, for say around $30 - 50K USD for the kit and gear if you wish. Heck I saw a real Mig on Ebay go for the same price, of course Oleg's actually flies....haha
Pictures do not do justice the Yak, and anyone doubting the amount of time and work which went into this model has no idea what they are talking about. I am pretty sure they are backed financially by Aviator watches (the Russian Rolex) and the technical achievements here stunning. I heard one of the builders in a conversation about a manufacturer's kit and the fact that it would do well if it could be gotten under 44 pounds, to which he replied "I can do this", and damned if I don't believe he could.

bigplumbs

I agree on that one

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Oh come on, I have yet to see more than 3 or 4 aircraft that the British have built that aren't at least *twice* as ugly as the Yak! Take any of your Vixen, Venom, Victor, Nimrod, ... aircraft

Bob

siclick33

From jroth's post regarding the scoring, what is the reason for giving more points to a 'one-off' than an 'own design developed into a kit'? I'm probably missing something but would it not be better to reward someone who makes his design available to others, even if only in a very limited production run?

BTW I personally like the look of the Yak and this model looks incredible.

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

So here is my next question. The yak is an absolute masterpiece, no question there. But will models of this "caliber" ultimately lead to the climax and then demise of a competition like this? I'm not trying to be mr negativity in any way, but logistically, how far can we go? A competition like the WJM is a serious competition involving already serious money for travel, lodging, event costs etc. A modeler competing at this level is likely going to take things very seriously when it comes to the event. How many people have the ability to build a model comprised of a team of builders at costs of a half million dollars? Is there even a competition at that point if not everyone can be on a more level field? I get that flying is half the battle, but how many entries with half million dollar models would there be,? How many entries is to few for the organizers to say it's not worth it?
The fact that a model like the yak can be built is amazing, but will individuals, or even teams really ever be able to compete against something like that? Again, not trying to be negative, just wondering...

schroedm

My Feedback: (1)

Jeremy,

My thoughts exactly. I am staggered by Vitaly's model and he should be rightly proud. Irrespective of the number of people involved, he arranged, organised and brought the model to fruition and then flew well enough to win which is no mean feat in itself.

But, as you say, I would imagine anyone thinking of entering the WJM does so because they think they might 'have a chance'. Now, with a model(s) like this would you want to go to the time, effort and expense to battle for 4th place?.........

Double edge sword it seems!

Maybe static/flying could be 25/75 or 40/60?? But then you take the onus away from true scale models at a scale competition....... [&:]

M

S E Repton

Let's not forget, as has already been pointed out, the cost is in Euro's not USD.

That puts the price tag at $712,000 USD.

Ouch!

AndyAndrews

Let me try to answer this. The question was, will models of this caliber (the Yak) ultimately lead to the climax and then demise of a competion like this? No, from my experience at this event,I don't think it will. Why? For several reasons, but most importantly - Yes, the main goal of the competition is to win, but this isn't the end all for most of the competitors who participated. I believe, after meeting all of the teams, they come to this event not only to win but also to have the opportunity to compete against the best of the best in the world. Like minded extremely talented individuals who strive to push themselves to the limit against the best the world has to offer - that is the real attraction. It wouldn't matter if the Russian's spent one million Euros on a jet. Based on what I experienced with all of the teams who participated, they will definitely all be back in 2013 for the sheer love of the sport alone. And in two years, because the event will be in Europe, there will most likely be even more competitors signing up not less. I will be one of them.