mach2

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alright. ive decided to start playing with a tiger trainer MKII what we bought for my dad (he's a pilot and i solo'd at 17) a real long time ago.

its got a thunder tiger GP42 motor and nobody has any fuel for it right now. i have 99.95% pure M1 methanol from VP that i use in one of my cars.

so, im wondering if i can find a proper lubricant that i can mix in with the methanol.

i figure its similar to mixing gas and oil in my 2 stroke motocross bikes when i used to race....

any info is greatly appreciated.

thanks
Jeremy

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

FAI fuel is just 80% Methanol and 20% Castor oil, zero nitro. The fuel I buy is 15% nitro 18% blended oil and 67% alcohol.

Hossfly

The FAI fuel will work, however a little Nitro is better. FAI engines (the rest of the world) use the FAI 80-20 mostly because Nitro is difficult and very pricey there. In addition most engines mfged. for other country distribution are a bit more compressed than the US nitro-burners.

A good formula is 5-10% Nitro Methane, 20% +/- Oil, either castor or better Castor/Synthetic mix, (20% castor -80% synthetic) and 70-75% wood alcohol, i.e. Methanol. Everything should be available at a good Bike Shop.
BTW mix by volume not weight Don't ask me how I know that!

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I mix my fuel using methanol I buy from local circle track racers and Klotz Super Techniplate oil. Super Techniplate oil is 80% synthetic and 20% caster oil, which gives extra protection to an engine in slightly lean settings.

I avoid paying hazmat charges, since the oil is not considered flammable. You can buy it in quarts or gallons, a four gallon case of oil will run around $140 but mix around 22 gallons of fuel, so the cost of oil is about $6 for each gallon of fuel. With methanol at under $3 bucks/gallon, you have about $9/gallon fuel until you add the nitro.

For nitro, you will have to look for it, but it can be found online, and some hobby shops carry it. I've still got gallons of 65% nitro racing fuel that I mix down with it to get 5 to 7% nitro in the final sport fuel. A lot of hobby shops also have gallons of 40% fuel that has been on the shelves a long time that will mix down nicely as well. Just got to be able to do some basic math and use precise measurements.

You also want at least 18% oil with most ball bearing engines, but since your engine is a bushing engine, you might want to bring the oil content up to about 22% by adding some additional caster oil,

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

first off, thanks for all the info. im glad that the consensus is " no moron. stay outta the RC game".

second off, i LOVE your ben franklin quote hossfly!

back to the fuel. I used to Maxima 927 castor oil in my motocross bikes.
http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/in...products_id=13

and if i need nitro, i can get some from the same speed shop i get my M1 from. All the local drag racers go there to get nitrous oxide and other go fast stuff.

what do you guys think?
is the nitro just for some more power? my goal with this plane is to learn how to fly. Ive been looking at, and have become very intrigued by some of the electric powered RC planes. Particularly an F-18 with a 70mm fan. They are cheap, look cool and really move.

thanks again guys!

Flyin Beagle

My Feedback: (1)

Your best bet is to start out by learning on your trainer before you move on to other planes. A lot of those foam ducted fan jets are underpowered and can be a handful especially for a new pilot. If mixing the fuel looks to be too much of a PIA just stop in a hobby store and buy a gallon of fuel. You will be surprised how long that gallon will last in that little trainer. That will also give you time to explore the hobby and determine what your interests are and what type of planes you want to continue to fly.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

the power of the foam electric planes is a concern i had, but like you said, that is something im going to be dealing with later. right now, im just gonna have fun (hopefully) with the trainer. I have a feeling that flying this little RC is going to be more difficult than flying the real thing. Im assuming that since its probably going to be way more responsive than a full size aircraft, small smooth imputs on the controls will be the key....

the reason im asking about the fuel is because i have nearly 5 gallons of methanol sitting in my garage that im not going to use since i uninstalled the supercharger and the methanol/water injection system i had put on it. So i figure "why not put my methanol to use". It wasnt exactly cheap. Almost 50 bucks for 5 gal.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I had a lot of nice alcohol on hand for a long time too but mine was dirt cheap. Ran in in a sand rail and got it in 55 gallon drums for almost nothing. I used it a lot for a parts cleaner. I did mix my own glow fuel for a time but when glow fuel comes up on sale it is often as cheap as my own brew. It has gone up in price but on sale at Hobby People it runs about $15.00 a gallon for 15%. The nitro can be used for more RPM but until you get to about 30% nitro it really isn't a big deal. However, the more nitro the easier to tune your engines and you get a much better low end. I ran a test once with different blends of nitro on some YS engines and they ran OK down to 10% nitro. With 5% the idle became rough and the engines didn't transition very well. I didn't want to do a tune on them to make them run better but it can be done. I run nothing but 15% and think of high nitro users as people that can't tune and engine. On the other hand people that compete use higher nitro for dependability and that bit of added power. They know how to tune very well but take no chances when they compete.

downunder

You'll find your engine will run quite well without nitro and seeing your engine uses a plain bearing for the crankshaft it'll last much longer if the oil is castor. Castor is also safer for the engine especially when you're learning to tune them because of its added high temp protection. I'm not sure that the Maxima oil is suitable though because I believe the synthetic it's blended with isn't compatible with methanol.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

okay, so when the engine manual talks about using a castor oil as a lubricant (the manual recommends using 75% meth and 25% castor...not less than 20% castor, ever), is it referring to regular old castor oil that can be bought at the market???

thanks!

oh, and by the way; the engine manual states that they also recomment a castor/synthetic blend for lubrication....(maxima?) but if good old castor oil is fine, then why spend the extra money on the maxima 2cycle mix......


thanks everyone for all the info im getting. its great.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

FAI fuel was 80-20 and it was straight Castor. Yes, you can use the Castor from the drug store. I know many people that do. SIG sells a much better refined oil {Castor} though. I have been using tha Klotz blended oil when I made my own. No special reason, I just had some on hand for my gas engines. It works very well. I was going to start brewing my own again last year but I started stock piling Power Master 15% whenever it came up on sale at Hobby People. No reason to roll my own when I can get a brand name for about the same money.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

that's awesome!

im gonna run to the drug store and get some oil and see if i can get her running and  do some carb tuning and taxi it around a bit.

im going to need a glow plug heater, a pump or a bulb to fill the fuel tank, and i can crank it over with a "chicken stick" right?

thanks,
Jeremy

Wine Country Flyer

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Just standing by hoping to learn a little.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

haha. that's always a good idea. ill keep ya'll posted on it. so we'll see if it blows up....

or i crash it.....

i wonder if i should get a RC flight sim program first....they are just expensive.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I have mentioned to you before. A good instructor is the way to go. Most clubs have instructors with a buddy box. To date I have never lost a plane during the teaching process. After solo I let my students fly the trainer on there own, I have only lost one trainer to a students mistake.

jimmyjames213

My Feedback: (2)

i use sig castor oil, it as about 20 bucks a gallon at sigmfg.com, mix 1 gallon of castor to every 5 gallons of methanol (21.33oz of castor per gallon or 16.66%)
most people who say not to use 0% nitro have never tried it, it works just as well as 15%. the engine idles just as low, transitions just as smooth, you just loose a tiny amount of power. i actually fine 0% easier to tune than 15%, its easier to tell when the engine is to rich/lean with 0%

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

@ gray beard, i found realflight 3.5 for $70 shipped on ebay, so that will be good. I got a chance to use a flight sim at the local hobby shop. i did well. i think i should be alright if all goes well with my solo. Landing is actually very very similar to landing a real plane (at least with the sim).

@ jimmyjames, i ended up finding omega fuel at the hobby shop. It's 10% nitro. I couldnt find any info on the castor percentage but ive been told on here that its around 16%.

the manual for the engine says to run no less than 20% castor, but you and everyone else seem to run around 16. Is the manufacturer just covering themselves by recommending it so rich?

opjose

MAKE SURE it comes with the Interlink controller by GP/Realflight. They are not allowed to sell the software without it.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

yep, comming with the futaba controller.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I loan my old G-2 to all of my new students. After a few hours on that I'm no longer needed as an instructor. Nice price you got it at too.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

im going out to meet a local club tomorrow morning.

hopefully i will get my plane dialed in. not sure if ill fly though....we'll see.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

i posted this in another one of my threads but im posting in here too because gray beard has helped me out in this thread and i wasn't sure if he was following my other one.....thanks for the help GB.

I made it out to the field this morning. we got the plane started up and made no carb adjustments and it idled great. kinda weird huh (it wasn't idling to my liking whe other night)?

anyway, i had a guy fly her first just in case it wasn't trimmed well and had some weird flight characteristics. He said it was really sensitive so i adjusted the throw on the control surfaces. it has a real touchy nose wheel, but that was already set for the least about of movement, so that's something im going to have to learn to get used to.

he took it up again and said that it was much better and handed me the controller. He said i handled the controls well and was doing a great job of holding my altitude while making turns. i basically did circle patterns and some figure 8s. I had him land it, just because i had been flying for a while and wanted to get it on the ground without having to do missed approaches and get too low on fuel.

then we started getting a bit of a crosswind at the strip but i decided to fly her again. i was a little nervous about the take off because i knew the nose wheel was sensitive and was afraid id shoot of the runway by trying to keep her running straight, and i forgot which way that plane wanted to track when it rolls out under power. SO, it started tracking to the right but i knew that it would be off the ground before it ran off the run way so i didn't do any correction. everything was cool and i was just staying in a left hand pattern and was practicing getting it lined up with the runway for the landing. And then then it happened. I was cruising down the runway at about 40' AGL and with 2/3 power, as i was reaching the end of the runway the motor died so there was no way of getting it down to land and i was too low and slow to turn it around without auguring it in nose first. It ended up getting a dead stick landing in 2' grass and some brush/tumbleweeds with pretty uneven ground. it hit the nose wheel on a mound came to an abrupt rest tail up.

luckily there was no damage!!![img]../js/fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/biggrin.gif[/img] we cleaned the dirt off it (nothing went into the carb, so that was cool). We started it back up and and she ran good. we shook it and the clunk was moving around so i don't think that was the issue. while running it on the ground there and never got any air bubbles running into the carb and no other issues at all and it ran fine before that. So it is just really weird that it would die while cruising at 2/3 throttle flying straight. i wasn't changing the power setting or anything. Maybe the glow plug got loaded up because i hadn't been running it real hard and it lost the glow momentarily. I know that 2 strokes can get loaded up if not ran hard enough and will run poorly until the carp is cleared outta the cylinder and off the plug by running them at high RPM. I think im going to switch to a OS 8 glow plug because i was told they are supposed to be a better plug than the thunder tiger.

anyway, i called it a day and i think it went well considering losing power and going down. It could have been a much worse day!!!!

cutaway

FWIW, Fox and Sig both sell some standard mixes that can meet the 20% Castor spec.

Basically, its the difference between trashing an ABC engine's TDC "pinch" on an unexpectedly lean run or having it survive. Synthetics de-polymerize when very hot (i.e. they stop acting "oily" as long molecules start to decompose), Castor does the opposite and starts to polymerize even more (it gets thicker and starts to form what people call "varnish"). You can clean varnish off, but putting scrubbed off metal back on is a lot harder

opjose

Great!

You are in luck too then!

You'll be able to upgrade it to the latest and the greatest G6 for $49.00, less if you have Tower Discount codes you can apply.

Check the Tower Web Site for the G6 upgrade. The upgrade offer is good for versions through G3-G5.5.