YS 170 DZ CDI
#201
Senior Member
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
ORIGINAL: amram
Hi
I got the 175 modified pump. See the pictures.
As you can see it is the entire assembly including the push road housing which is part of the modifications. I cannot add a scholar explanations like others but just god-feeling I had from day one that the push road housing is part of the problem. Also interesting to see that the regulator diaphragm is made of different material and more important its limiter is now a separate part and its all made of hard plastic..
I will test it in next few days. Temperature here about 35C (95F) in the shade so we shell see!
Regards
Amram
THANK YOU YAMADA SAN FOR A GREAT SUPPORT!!!!!
Hi
I got the 175 modified pump. See the pictures.
As you can see it is the entire assembly including the push road housing which is part of the modifications. I cannot add a scholar explanations like others but just god-feeling I had from day one that the push road housing is part of the problem. Also interesting to see that the regulator diaphragm is made of different material and more important its limiter is now a separate part and its all made of hard plastic..
I will test it in next few days. Temperature here about 35C (95F) in the shade so we shell see!
Regards
Amram
THANK YOU YAMADA SAN FOR A GREAT SUPPORT!!!!!
Hello amram. What's new regarding your 175 pump on YS 170 CDI. Any report ?.
Regards
Enrique
#202
Senior Member
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Hello Dick,
Could you fix your YS 170 DZ CDI with the new pump. Did it run properly with the new one, is it the 175 pump ?
Regards
Enrique
#205
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Well up till last week my 170 cdi ran fine. Until i had to pull it out of the model and replace a lost needle valve detent. The detent came off due to vibration, sometime during a flight.
So, now with the engine in the model, it will not continue running. It sounds like its running out of prime. But the pump seems to be working fine. Can this be related to a bad ignition system?
It would start and splutter and back fire and be all over the place, before stopping. Fuel dripping out of carb. Needle valve open at my regular setting of 3/4 open. This is the setting that the engine has run on for all flights.
Prior to me pulling the engine out of the model, everything was fine, no issues. And now all this!!!
Lost for ideas.
Any help out there?
#206
Join Date: Dec 2006
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
There's probably lots of things that could be wrong. I know I oil fouled the spark plug once or twice and it wouldn't clear itself, it would cough splutter and carry on, then you could wind it with the starter with only the occasional pop. Pulling the plug, washing out the oil in the plug, re-installing and restarting the motor upright letting it blow out the excess oil before returning it to inverted was the only cure.
A spark plug won't clear itself like a glowplug if the motor gets an accidental gutt full of fuel/oil.
Or it could be the wire from the hall sensor that was just about broken, and the stress of putting in a new plane was the just enough to break the last strand?
Try to work through one thing at a time...
A spark plug won't clear itself like a glowplug if the motor gets an accidental gutt full of fuel/oil.
Or it could be the wire from the hall sensor that was just about broken, and the stress of putting in a new plane was the just enough to break the last strand?
Try to work through one thing at a time...
#209
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Yes it does that fine. Fuel is making it to the check valve no problems. I've looked at the pump and can't find anything abnormal. Changed spark plug. So will give it another run tomorrow and post back.
Chrs
#210
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Well i've now bench run the 170 cdi to diagnose. Two times, the fuel line on the pressure side of the pump burst open right after startng!! That is the first time ever I've seen that happen. Twice!!.
It then settled down, and ran. Though I initially found myself chasing the regulator settings. I could not get a reliable idle. It would settle to an idle and then sag down and go very rich and shut down. Adjusting the regulator gave mixed results. However, it has now settled down to an idle of around 1800. It does sag slightly from there about 200 rpm or so, but atleast I can advance the throttle without it cutting out.
When I removed the regulator, I found two silicone gaskets. One orange, and one black, which was in front of the orange one. So i removed the black one and test ran the engine again. As expected, I then had to wind the regulator in to compensate for the removed 'extra' silicone gasket. the engine seems a little better since.
More questions:
1. What are you're main needle settings
2. What are your regulator settings
3. What idle do you set at.
4. Will your engine settle to an idle and the rpm stays within +/-100rpm of that idle setting, for a prolonged period?
5. Are there supposed to be two silicone gaskets behind the regulator, or just one?
I think ultimately, I need to replace seals/gaskets on this engine.
The engine is ok to fly, but i can see it giving me headaches at the field.
We'll see.
#211
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Topi....
I had a hellova hard time with mine......same symptoms.
When the silicone fuel line is put on the nipple sometimes a sharp corner will carve out a piece of silicone from the inside of the fuel line. DuBro seems to be worse than other brands.
I reccommend that you remove all fuel lines and toss em'.
Then, remove the needle valve assy from the carb...unscrew the brass body....then back flush the carb housing with alcohol. Flush the body too. Be sure to backflush the nipple on the carb going to the head.
Back flush everything with alcohol...unscrew the top of the check valve on the head and clean up in there...those small silicone pieces are almost invisible and instead of just looking...flush it and blow everything with compressed air.
If it was running ok with the 2 diaphrams...then something happened....try flushing the pump too. The pump is not too difficult to take apart and you may find swarf and debris in there as well.
In addition...there is a piston on the bottom of the pump...you can remove it and flush out in there as well.
Replace all fuel lines....cut to size then flush before installation.
Replace O ring on throt barrel....they leak..
I had a hellova hard time with mine......same symptoms.
When the silicone fuel line is put on the nipple sometimes a sharp corner will carve out a piece of silicone from the inside of the fuel line. DuBro seems to be worse than other brands.
I reccommend that you remove all fuel lines and toss em'.
Then, remove the needle valve assy from the carb...unscrew the brass body....then back flush the carb housing with alcohol. Flush the body too. Be sure to backflush the nipple on the carb going to the head.
Back flush everything with alcohol...unscrew the top of the check valve on the head and clean up in there...those small silicone pieces are almost invisible and instead of just looking...flush it and blow everything with compressed air.
If it was running ok with the 2 diaphrams...then something happened....try flushing the pump too. The pump is not too difficult to take apart and you may find swarf and debris in there as well.
In addition...there is a piston on the bottom of the pump...you can remove it and flush out in there as well.
Replace all fuel lines....cut to size then flush before installation.
Replace O ring on throt barrel....they leak..
#213
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
There are some engines with the two diaphragms, one or both is ok, if your engine ran fine, and now it is not, it is better to check the root of the problem, re adjusting the pump will only mask the problem, it should not need that. What you want to do is the most probable cause, changing seals and gaskets, one bad o ring and the pump can go lean to rich in flight depending on your throttle setting and back, flush also as previously suggested.
After many many years of using YS engines I found the best fuel hose for me is the Prather products medium, I have not seen a better hose than that, I replace my hoses yearly, but always inspect the pump reference hose, or simply change it often.
Good luck,
After many many years of using YS engines I found the best fuel hose for me is the Prather products medium, I have not seen a better hose than that, I replace my hoses yearly, but always inspect the pump reference hose, or simply change it often.
Good luck,
#215
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
ORIGINAL: apereira
the best fuel hose for me is the Prather products medium, I have not seen a better hose than that,
the best fuel hose for me is the Prather products medium, I have not seen a better hose than that,
#216
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Dave,
The Prather line of products is still in production by another company, I think they specialize in boats, I google them last time and bougth two rolls just in case, There are several hobby shops who carry them right now, google it, it is the same thing, hose, quality, box, etc.
Regards
The Prather line of products is still in production by another company, I think they specialize in boats, I google them last time and bougth two rolls just in case, There are several hobby shops who carry them right now, google it, it is the same thing, hose, quality, box, etc.
Regards
#217
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
ORIGINAL: apereira
Dave,
The Prather line of products is still in production by another company, I think they specialize in boats, I google them last time and bougth two rolls just in case, There are several hobby shops who carry them right now, google it, it is the same thing, hose, quality, box, etc.
Regards
Dave,
The Prather line of products is still in production by another company, I think they specialize in boats, I google them last time and bougth two rolls just in case, There are several hobby shops who carry them right now, google it, it is the same thing, hose, quality, box, etc.
Regards
Great news Al......thanks man.
#219
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
OK - just to be clear - are people who have no spark plug oiling issues starting the motor with the cylinder upright or inverted?
Regards, allenpl
Regards, allenpl
#220
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
For me. I've never had a spark plug oiling issue. And I always start inverted. Engine mounted inverted in a comp arf valiant. Starts perfect after fueling and priming. However any change to my set procedure of fueling and priming leads to a fussy engine. But that's only on the first start of the day. After that each subsequent start is on the mark. My last little event described I this found was due to a worn/stretched diaphragm in the regulator. Easy fix. All is well now.
#222
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Yep, happened to me a couple of times now over the course of 2 years.
I ran the engine upright in a big stick airframe first, and used to run the fuel out and put some oil down the throttle barrel at the end of the day. Never had a problem with this until I mounted it inverted in the Aries. On the very odd occasion it just wouldn't "clear" itself for the first start of the day and needed the plug to be pulled. Seemed to coincide with being a bit heavy handed with the oil the previous weekend. I stopped running out the fuel and putting oil in the motor once I'd put 2 and 2 together.
Reassembled the engine with too much oil, and had the needle and reg a touch rich. Ran OK for about 2 minutes until I advanced the throttle then loaded up and died. Again it would start, run but wouldn't clear itself, it got worse until it wouldn't even pop on the starter. I pulled the plug, blew it out, fired first pop then I picked up the plane and held it upside down running while it cleared out the excess oil.
Just a side note, I tend to spend a fair portion of my flying upright, cruising around on part throttle, a 50/50 mix of sport flying and pattern practice. When running 20% oil I found a couple of outside loops with full throttle at the top sorted out any little misfires before they got bad. Running 10% oil has eliminated the need for me to do this. I'd tend to think that if I just took off, flew the F3A schedule and landed again (ie. used the engine for it's intended purpose) then oil fouling a plug wouldn't be an issue.
Another side note, even running 10% oil I changed the plug on the weekend before heading out and after a week on it's wheels the old plug was full of oil. I'm sure it would have started and ran just fine like always, but yep, definitely full of oil...
I ran the engine upright in a big stick airframe first, and used to run the fuel out and put some oil down the throttle barrel at the end of the day. Never had a problem with this until I mounted it inverted in the Aries. On the very odd occasion it just wouldn't "clear" itself for the first start of the day and needed the plug to be pulled. Seemed to coincide with being a bit heavy handed with the oil the previous weekend. I stopped running out the fuel and putting oil in the motor once I'd put 2 and 2 together.
Reassembled the engine with too much oil, and had the needle and reg a touch rich. Ran OK for about 2 minutes until I advanced the throttle then loaded up and died. Again it would start, run but wouldn't clear itself, it got worse until it wouldn't even pop on the starter. I pulled the plug, blew it out, fired first pop then I picked up the plane and held it upside down running while it cleared out the excess oil.
Just a side note, I tend to spend a fair portion of my flying upright, cruising around on part throttle, a 50/50 mix of sport flying and pattern practice. When running 20% oil I found a couple of outside loops with full throttle at the top sorted out any little misfires before they got bad. Running 10% oil has eliminated the need for me to do this. I'd tend to think that if I just took off, flew the F3A schedule and landed again (ie. used the engine for it's intended purpose) then oil fouling a plug wouldn't be an issue.
Another side note, even running 10% oil I changed the plug on the weekend before heading out and after a week on it's wheels the old plug was full of oil. I'm sure it would have started and ran just fine like always, but yep, definitely full of oil...
#223
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Has anybody had slight difficulty with the first start of the day with the 170Cdi? What I've noticed is that on the first start it'll run off the prime and then quit, as if it has slight trouble drawing fuel. After a few attempts it will start and from then on it has no problems and runs well. I prime by giving a few squirts of fuel into the carb, and a few seconds spin on the starter before switching on the ignition. Any ideas?
#224
RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Hello Robert,
That is normal only if you fly on weekends only, on consecutive days it should not happens, but your priming method might be the problem.
With the ignition off obviously, open the throttle fully, move the prop by hand slowly until you hear the engine "click", then move the prop back and fourth with your hand quickly until you see the fuel on the hose running into the engine, the engine will not be flooded, unless it is done excessively, then go back to idle, ignition and the engine should start immediately.
Check the fuel hoses and the reference hose to the regulator also, this reference hose I change twice a year no matter the condition.
Good luck
Alejandro P.
That is normal only if you fly on weekends only, on consecutive days it should not happens, but your priming method might be the problem.
With the ignition off obviously, open the throttle fully, move the prop by hand slowly until you hear the engine "click", then move the prop back and fourth with your hand quickly until you see the fuel on the hose running into the engine, the engine will not be flooded, unless it is done excessively, then go back to idle, ignition and the engine should start immediately.
Check the fuel hoses and the reference hose to the regulator also, this reference hose I change twice a year no matter the condition.
Good luck
Alejandro P.
#225
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RE: YS 170 DZ CDI
Hi Robert,
My engines tend to suffer this either when they are very cold and have been left a while as Alejandro suggested. It seems that fuel tends to congeal and block the feed from tank to engine. I guess I could be more dogmatic and drain the tank every time I finish flying for the day and then run the engine dry at low rpm. I can clear the blockage either by heating the engine externally with a heat gun if I'm at home, or by just cranking the engine till I see the fuel flowing up to the injector. The very worst case might need the needle opening up to help the fuel start flowing and then re-setting.
I'm not sure why the fuel congeals. On my test stand in my garage I have a tank permanently fitted and fuel in the pipes always congeals if left for any time so its not like its anything really to do with the engine as such. It does seem much worse in very cold weather. I guess this is just a facet of the oil used; the congealed fuel does appear to be similar to the oil in its un-mixed state; i.e. quite viscous and deep red.
Best wishes
Keith
My engines tend to suffer this either when they are very cold and have been left a while as Alejandro suggested. It seems that fuel tends to congeal and block the feed from tank to engine. I guess I could be more dogmatic and drain the tank every time I finish flying for the day and then run the engine dry at low rpm. I can clear the blockage either by heating the engine externally with a heat gun if I'm at home, or by just cranking the engine till I see the fuel flowing up to the injector. The very worst case might need the needle opening up to help the fuel start flowing and then re-setting.
I'm not sure why the fuel congeals. On my test stand in my garage I have a tank permanently fitted and fuel in the pipes always congeals if left for any time so its not like its anything really to do with the engine as such. It does seem much worse in very cold weather. I guess this is just a facet of the oil used; the congealed fuel does appear to be similar to the oil in its un-mixed state; i.e. quite viscous and deep red.
Best wishes
Keith