aramsdell

Saito FG-20 thrust
Looks, on the surface, to be a good choice. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1142177 It puts out 12 lbs thrust on a 16 inch prop. I wouldn't use a larger prop. I have a 16 x 10 3 blade on a 1.40 size electric. Weight is in the 14 lb range. Correct CG is hard to get so put everything as far foward as you can right from the start. I have just over 1:1 power to weight with my setup. You will be a little less probably, Still you will have a good performer you probably won't be able to knife-edge like mine though !


Welcome to the club !

aramsdell

Recent progress

1UGLYPUG

LOOKING GOOD MAN!!

aramsdell

Thank You !

I'm dawdling my way through the details. Here are some of the LED's I'm using. I got a controller from Dimension Engineering called the DElight controller. Very versatile. So far I have programmed a double flash wing strobe and ramping Mars beacon. The small LED in the lower right is what you get from Dim. Eng. It has about a 120 deg. viewing angle. I added half of the barrel of a conventional clear LED on top of it and lightly sanded with emery paper to frost it. Now the entire 'LED' lights up a briliant white . I put half of a red LED on top of a red DE LED and did not frost it. That is my 'MARS' beacon and it is easily viewable for about 250 + degrees now. I am going to put 2 of the LED's (on the top right ) into the cowl for landing lights. These are 45 lumen capable. About 1 watt. The Dimension Engineering LEDs are rated at 1/2 watt.

lgrote

Aramsdell,
Thanks for the reply, I have the Saito FG-20 and have only run the unit in a test configuration. I will plan to use this engine for the Cessna. Today the Robart strut arived and I will now get serious on the build.
LG

aramsdell

Again let me stress to keep everything as far forward as possible. You should ditch the stock tail controls and do something similar to what I posted in earlier posts on the previous couple pages. I would do the elevator with a piece of 3mm piano wire and a 3mm wheel collar and file a flat on it for the 'setscrew' which in this case would be a1 or 1.25 inch bolt with a threaded plastic strip "aileron" connector.

aramsdell

lgrote, see my post 1097 and definately do the elevator in a similar fashion. If I do this again I would use 3mm piano wire and 3mm wheel collar and the 'strip aileron' plastic fitting shown. I ground a hole into the fuse big enough to fit the wire and wheel collar through and then reconnected the long bolt with the aileron fitting. I had both bends and it was cut to length at that point when fitted.
Do the rudder like or similar to mine too. It is SOLID! NO flex here boys.

Again let me stress to keep all other weight as far forward as possible. Under the cowl . This is a tail-heavy bird, that's why people are getting away with using a 26cc but have to throttle back.
If you would like some more help with my mods, I would be more than happy to send more pics etc.
Al

lgrote

I am planning pull-pull for the rudder and two elevator servo's with 2/56 push rods for the elevators. This set-up has worked for my other models. It will take away from the scale look, but I have confidence with this set-up.
LG

aramsdell

I put 2 sets of batteries through the 182 today. 36 F and 10 mph+ wind. Handled it well at just over 14 lbs. I went to the field with the intention of making adjustments to the main wing incidence. My past flights have had a lot of climb despite getting the cgforward toaround the80 to 85 mm mark. I had an idea the main wing might have too much incidence and I might need even more downthrust. I added more down in the shop and took to the field a 1" strip of balsa, about 5/32 thick, and already drilled to fit under the wing bolts.
Since last I flew I added another 5 cell NiMh 1600 mah pack to power the lighting system.( lights will be done for next weekend). I now have (2) 5 cell 1600 packs. One of them is under the battery tray in the cowling.. Starting to get crowded under that cowl ! That helped move the CG a hair forward too.
So now I have a slightly forward CG from last week and a little more downthrust( a little more than the 2 degrees from the instructions). I took out a little of the down-trim so I would start at about the same flight characteristics as last week. Takeoff was quick at 1/2 flap into the wind and after flaps up it STILL wanted to climb . Power off with no flaps showed a little more nose down attitude so the cg change helped a little. Full flaps needed more down elev to maintain a decent glide speed.
I was discussing the plane with a full scale pilot about every time I landed (lots of short hops and some programming changes) He agreed the incidence could explain the climb and why extra down trim didn't send it to the ground only boosted glide speed.

I added the shim under the wing bolts. Now I expected this would need more downthrust to fully wring out this change but that will happen here in the shop . With the shim The change was immediately noticable less zoomy climb under power and less downtrim and I could get it into a nice glide-slope under flaps.

I checked the incidences with my incidence meter(without the shim). Main to horiz stab +4 degrees(seems excessive) 2 degrees with the shim. Motor same angle as horiz stab. Going to add 1 or 2 degrees more down. That should solve the climb under power. I will probably add some elev to throttle mix a little down at low throttle so it won't climb when I cut the throttle.
This ought to get me about where I want to be.
Anyone who hasn't yet glued on their stabs should check their incidences. It would be easy to raise the front of the stabs a couple degrees before gluing and save a bigger job filling where the back of the main wing is raised. This also will give the effect of downthrust relative to the firewall and thrustline.


The landing gear I changed to is performing flawlessly ! I saw that sucker bending and springing on the frozen grass field today and No problems !!! See my earlier posts. You can't beat the price.

bigfella65

Anyone know where I can get spare parts for the CMP 120-140 182 Skylane, got a part missing, one of the strut holders for the wing. Any suggestions how I can replace it if I cant locate the part.

1UGLYPUG

START FABRICATING... One for each side so you will have a matched set. I now have aluminum strut tubes, as I could not find any replacements. I had a catastrophic take off attempt one time, when I forgot to attach the top wing bolts. Looked like the six million dollar man crash. I was about to go and stomp on the thing, until I got close and realized it was not hurt too bad. Just damaged the strut tubes, and the right horizontal stab. I already had a new cowling as the old one had some hanger rash, so I put it all back together, and it flies like nothing ever happened. I triple check everything now, and don't talk to anyone when putting it together. It was scary pulling back on the stick, and it would not lift off,,, ran off the runway and started cartwheeling. But, it is a tough plane. Now, good as new. That happened over a year a go, and I have flown it a lot since then. I flew it about 8 times this weekend. And everyone at the field really likes it. I also have a giant scale TF bonanza and the two of them look good sitting next to each other.

aramsdell

I found this data online. I may try to build a nice 'finish shim' to place under the wing and try to get the main incidence even lower. The Top Flite has only + 1/4 degree incidence on the main wing. I started with 4 and got down to 2. I added more down(thrust) last night but maybe could remove it if I adjust the incidence down to 1/2 to 1 degree.

Airplane Technical Data

Discontinued Kits

CURRENT PLANES:
Stock #	Mfg. #	Name	CG*	Elevator Throw:		Aileron Throw:		Rudder Throw:		Flaps		Incidences:		Engine Thrust:
				High Rate	Low Rate	High Rate	Low Rate	High Rate	Low Rate	Takeoff	Landing	Wing	Stab	Right	Down
TOPA0965		AT-6 Texan ARF	4-1/4	5/8	1/2	1	3/4	1-3/4	1-1/4
TOPA0980		B-25 Mitchell Bomber ARF	5	1-1/4	1	5/8	3/8	1-1/4	3/4
TOPA0300	CES6	Cessna 182 Skylane	4	1-1/16	3/4	5/8	1/2	1	5/8	1	2	+1/4	0	0	2

aramsdell

!Help! Could anyone flying this plane please measure their main wing incidence relative to the Horiz. stab incidence?


I believe that most of the probs with seemingly tailheavy planes is coming more from too much main wing incidence. That would require nose-heavy,down elev,and downthrust compensation to get it to fly ok. Just what I have been going through.

I have looked at several other 182's in this size and they have semi-sym wings like this and their incidences are just more than 0. 1/4and 1/2 degree or so.

I put my lazer incidence meter on the stab and set for 0 degrees. The main wing ins at 4 degrees+ !!! Yikes. No wonder it climbs even with a forward CG.
The last time I flew I had shimmed the Trailing ege up about an 1/8 inch. It flew better but I still had lots of down trim on the elev when it came down and it wanted more downthrust.

I checked the main wing incidence then rechecked main and tail with just a simple protractor level. Same thing 0 on tail and 4 on main. I have to raise the Trailing edge 5/8 inch to get the main to just 1.25 degrees positive. What a ugly gap that makes.
If I knew it was so far out I would have rebuilt the tail before gluing it on to give positive incidence on the stab/elev's.

Someone tell me I'm wrong here.


Word to the soon to be wise. Test fit the wing and stab/elev and get this number down to something more managable by moving the stab mounting tube and keying holes.

aramsdell

Busy, Busy....... I have built a shim to try out my incidence theory. If it works then I will probably glue it to the underside of the wing center-section. It raises the T.E. by 15mm measured at the center section where the TE notches onto the fuse. With it installed the main wing incidence is 1 degree.
This would have been much simpler if the molding lines for the horiz. stabs had been right.3 degrees or so of pos incidence on the stab would have put the main wing at about 1 degree. My after-the-fact cure may make it look tail low in a fly-by.
I don't know if I could cut thestabs free without destroying the tail section.
I'll post some pics later after the epoxy cures.

aramsdell

The shim

1UGLYPUG

WHEN I was building mine, one of the horizontal stabs got out of place, and I had to cut it off and re glue it. It was not easy, but it can be done. If you are careful, it will only leave a slight line you can fill in with epoxy. Then paint over it. I think I cut it off with a Dremel wheel. If it looks like yours will fly better with the change in incidence, I may cut mine off again and change it. I notice mine flies with a little "down trim" also. Maybe that is contributing to the bouncy landings these things are famous for. Keep us informed.

aramsdell

Defnately check your main wing to stab incidence. If it is more than 1 degree it is going to cause lots of problems. If you land with the nose gear set to the stock height and grease it on it will most likely bounce you back up because that itself makes the main wing at a big Angle of attack. I would lower the nose, like I did, and use a different nose gear(I think you are).
Just changing the gear height solved most of the bouncy landings. Adding the spring gear has kept it from bending the gear.

It was 8 deg F about an hour ago. We had 8 inches of snow on Thurs. so my field is now officially closed until it is gone.

My landing gear is currently set top 181 mm not the 190 shown in the book. I did have it a little less but it increased when i changed the nosewheel. The stock wheel is crap.

The gear came from Advantage Hobby and was a trike gear for a Cessna 310. I just used the nosegear.

aramsdell

Well I had to fly . The suspense was killing me. Temp 13 F and moderate wind ,10 mph or so. cold! The shim has fixed this bird. It climbs gently on full throttle level at cruise decends quickly with flaps. Landings quite nice, I was at a large paved dry p-lot. I think I could actually move the cg back if I wanted. it drops inverted still.

I just checked, the elev had no trim in it for normal flight now !
I had the MARS beacon and the tail position light on when I flew, late afternoon sun. I could see them both for 300 feet at least !

Hurray. Now for warmer weather.

aramsdell

No new flight news....
Sure is quiet in here.
Tried to fly this past Sunday. The elev. and rudder servos would not work. They got too cold and refused to work until they warmed up. I tried them plugged into the aileron channel and that was working but they wouldn't. They are changed now.
I really want to try this in the late afternoon with the full light set going. I turned it on in the cellar and the landing lights are spectacular. They are 2 one watt LED's toned down to about 1/2 watt each. Lit up the other side of the cellar!

1UGLYPUG

I wonder if changing that incidence will improve the landings,,, i.e. help with that tendency to "bounce" if not set down just right???

aramsdell

For my plane, this will tend to make the nose higher when I land and therefore more likely to plant the mains first. If I were to change the tail incidence then it would have the affect of lowering the nose and make bouncing on the nose gear more probable. I found that reducing the nose gear height took care of most bounce even with the high wing incidence.


Do yourself a favor and use a really good incidence checker. Get the main wing to 1 degree or less positive in relation to the stabs. I would go with 2 degrees down relative to the stabs, on the motor. I have the slightest of right thrust in mine. I spent so much time building strengthened internal linkages for the rudder and elevator that I cringe at the thought of trying to cut the stabs loose.It can't be pretty. I am thinking a hot wire to melt the epoxy but again.... Maybe just buy another, live and learn. They are really nice after all the fuss is done.

baddley

My Feedback: (1)

Hi

Are the plane u guys referrring to in this thread the KMP plan or Kondor Model Products ? I seen the abbreviton CMP on this thread but I am not certain who the manufacture is. The only Cessna I see on KMP's site right now is setup strictly for floats and has no regular main gear or anything included. Has anyone tried a DLE20 with this plane or is that a good combo ?

I have small Great Planes Cessna and love the way it flies. I have also looked at the RC Guys Cessna and was trying to find something to compare it with. I would love to have a larger version with scale lights and the such.

I almost bought another KMP plane their AT6 Texan but decided not too due to lack of info on this plane and pilot reviews !


Thanks Scott

HUNTERANDJEFF

this thread is for CMP (china model products) cessna 140 sold through nitro planes.com It is a very good plane and is a bit larger than the KMP cessna (Kondor Model Products). It is also a 182 whereas the Kmp cessna ia a 185.

baddley

My Feedback: (1)

Hi

The only Cessna that is listed on Nitroplanes website is a 55" wingspan and I am sure that is not it. Also the CMP (China Model Products) website does not list a Cessna period. Do you have a link to were I could buy this ARF ?


Thanks Scott

aramsdell

Baddley, Look in the pictures that come up on the main page. There is (usually) a red and white Cessna 180 listed as (Skytrainer 140) . Lately it has listed for 225 dollars or so. I was lucky??? enough to get it on special (Black Friday week) for 189 bucks.

Now this model has had a few issues. The main wing was set at 4 degrees positive incidence to the horiz. stabs. Bad !!!!!!! I had to make a shim b etween the wing saddle and wing to raise the trailing edge by 5/8 inch and it is stil 1/2 degree positive or so but flies great at this setting. Nearly Unflyable as it was designed. required a way forward CG and snap and tip stalled without warning. Now it is a ***** cat. I flew a couple sets of batteries through it this morning. 10 S 4900 and a 1.40 size electric motor. 16 x 8 3 blade.

Watch point #2. The all internal elevator and rudder setup are pretty much for show. They are too wobbly. I built my own using 3mm and 4mm helicopter flybar rods for stiffness and braced internally to prevent flex. If you are good at fabricating you could too. Those who aren't or don't want to have mounted external control horns but it wrecks the looks for me.


http://www.nitroplanes.com/projet-05...0-red-kit.html

Point # 3 (or more!) when at this webpage you may notice an 18 inch prop on the model. Think rototiller. Keep it to 16 or so.
There are a multitude of other steps you should take too...........

You might want to go with a TOpFlite arf. More $ but at least they have functioning wingstruts. I had to reinforce the fuse on mine and drill holes for bolts that aren't shown. I know the wings would have ripped off by now if I hadn't done this mod.

Read this thread again. I can go on and on about what I did. Nose gear...


I put a LOT of time into this bird and now it rewards me with lots of great comments at the field and more in the air. My tail mods are pretty good. I would do my elevator mod a little stiffer even that I did. I can knife edge with the rudder mod!!
I can make em say COOL with the taxi lights coming on as I decend on final!