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Hi,

I'm a fellow flyer from "down under" , and have recently bought second hand a build 1/4 scale Bud Nosen Aeronca champ, which I intend to set up for aerotowing, and for sky diver transport.

Could anyone give me a idea about the deflections setup for the control surfaces, and where the balance point is.

cheers.

donnyman

Hello down under! I recently sold my kit of this bird but I think I can get you all the information you need. I will wait for a response from you before searching to be sure you still need the info. One caution I firmly remember a warning on the plans about aileron reversal you must use less down aileron than up (about half) or the plane will turn opposite to your command. it happened here. thats how I got the plane and kit they did not understand how to solve the problem and gave it to me. it flew well with a g38. stay in touch!

flicka5

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So what were the answers as I need the same info????

Bass1

Not sure about the Nosen Champ but if it flys as nice as my Nosen Citabria (and I'm sure it will) you'll have a blast with it![8D]

[email protected]

Hi Donnyman,

Sorry for the late reply, must have missed the email about your message, but saw it just now
because flicka 5 put up a post.
I am just about to try to set the aeronca up,its going to be a glider tug/ skydiver taxi, and would still very much appriciate your info.
I got sidetracked with building the 1/4 scale skydivers, and had a 1/5 monocoupe set up for tug/ taxi duty, but it turned out it couldn't handle the wing load ,and tip stalled on takeoff destroying its nose.
So far I received info on the balance point, but still have no idea about the control-surfice deflections and don't want to risk flying it until I do.

Hope to hear from you again,

Kind regards from "down-under"

rthalls

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bought a work in progress- bud nosen aeronca champ with no instruction or plans how is the wing center section attached ?? has any one put flaps on it ?

ahicks

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I have one I haven't flown in 15 years. The wing is heavily modified as it's designed to allow the wings to swivel back, parallel to the fuse (very similar to a full scale Kit Fox if you're familiar). The struts are attached at the bottom in line with the rear spar so when the wing swings back it remains level. There's a single bolt near the leading edge to secure it in the flying position, that's it. Easy to transport, very little assembly when you get to the field, yet fully aerobatic to the point of doing a rolling circle. I would not treat it like I would a 3D plane though.... I don't think there's any way all those sticks would hold up to that kind of treatment!

That said, my center section is held in place with 4 bolts. Yes, it responds about as expected with flaps. Mine is about 17.5 lbs if memory serves me properly, running a 2500 Super Tigre, and 30 degrees of flap will yield a 10' take off roll if there's any kind of a breeze coming down the runway. Landings can be just as crazy, but I would caution you to be good and familiar with the plane prior to trying anything with the flaps.

There's nothing tricky about the C.G. placement. It follows the 25-33% wing chord rule. If shy, start it at 25%, then work your way back if you think it needs it (maybe landing too fast/floating?).

Aileron setup to allow more up than down movement is handled mechanically by the placement of the servo arm. Instead of being at the normal 90 degrees to the push rod, you would angle it forward a little. Play with it to see what I'm talking about. Usually one notch forward is all you need. You could also do this with a lot of the radios using end point adjustments.

In my experience, if you have a couple planes under your belt, the plane flies like a Cub with an attitude. Keep your landing and take off speeds up until you have time to mess with it a few mistakes high and you shouldn't have any trouble with it. Be prepared to use a lot of rudder input. This is not a bank and crank kind of plane!

rthalls

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how long did you make your flaps ? have the wings built now to decied flaps or no flaps - also did you go with the one strut or two
would like to see how you did the swivle wings thanks bob

Propworn

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I flew my Nosen Champ for years. I flew all the scale aerobatics it was capable of at about 1/2 to no more than 2/3 throttle using an old Qadrua 35 gas engine. Though the model flies very well on the wing standard power will most likely present a problem of not enough power to glider tow. All of the tugs I am aware of are powered with larger engines than those recommended by the kit manufacturer. I don’t think flaps are needed but the ailerons become much less responsive at low speeds. The rudder on the other hand has plenty of authority and can easily cause a snap roll at slow speed if applied too aggressively. It would help to know what engine you will be using and the expected all up weight of the airframe.

My set up was ailerons 45 degrees up and 25 degrees down aileron differential set using two wing servos and through mixing on the radio via 2 separate channels. I also flew it most times with rudder mix 25 percent with the ailerons if I remember correctly. I could toggle this off and on via a switch as needed.

Elevator max deflection of 45 degrees.

Rudder max deflection until rudder almost touches the edges of the elevator

These were max deflections that I may use when performing some aerobatics. I also used near 75 percent exponential softening control near the center for my high rate.

Low rate started 50 percent of the high rate of travel and the exponential was also reduced to 50 percent. I think I ended up leaving the rate for the ailerons on high and only used low rate on elevator and rudder.

I never used this airframe for aero towing but I have others I use. I always use a release at the tow plane in case of emergency. I locate the release in the center of the fuselage right at the trailing edge of the wing.

Hope this helps.
Dennis

rthalls

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been reading your thread and though I would get your thoughts I have a G-26 gas engine and a satio FS 150 thinking of useing the FS-150 to save weight ....... is it necessary to use two structs or will the one be good ?? I tied my elvators togeather to operate off of one servo what our your thoughts on this thanks

Propworn

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G 26 uses a 16 X 8 prop and gets between 8 and 9000 rpm where the Saito 150 I am familiar with will turn the same prop around the same rpm it runs better with a 16 X 6 at a bit higher rpm as a result the available power will be roughly the same.

The plane will most likely need some nose weight. More with the Saito because it’s lighter. I would think the plane will end up weighing about the same what ever engine you choose. One thing to consider is that with a gas engine you need much less fuel so I could fit a square tank out of site in the front under the dash. The Saito will require a much larger tank and there is no place to hide it. Also the gas engine with the diaphragm carb will not care where you mount the tank where the Saito will want it close to the engine and on center with the carb.

With the Saito you will need to remove the cowl every so often to set the valves. With the gas engine once set like a weed wacker you should never have to remove the cowl to reset the engine.

Sound wise it is personal preference which one you prefer.

Use the two struts as depicted in the plans not only does it look better but it will stop any wing warping or twisting under load.

A single servo for the ailerons is fine as long as it’s strong enough. If you can, try and work in some differential through linkage and servo arm planning. The up deflection should be more than the down deflection this will help the airplane turn. I like to mix in some rudder with the ailerons to make co-ordinated turns and you can do this manually or via mixing at the radio.

Hope this helps
Dennis

rthalls

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thanks for the reply , I didn't mean a single servo on the ail its the elvator that I should of said

Scota4570

I have a CRRC-40 kit engine in mine. Excess power for sure, I guess that is why they invented the throttle? You should be an engine guy before you get one of these engines. It will take some tinkering to get it running right. Forget about the supplied ignition and get an RCEXL. Point being a 40cc will not be too big. A G-38 would be great. A 23 or 26cc will probably fly fine. Mine came out of the barn I found it in with a Magnum 91 2-stroke glow. I had been flown so I guess tht worked. I tried a 26cc weedwacker conversion with a restrictive muffler, a 16x6 at about 7000 rpm, it was insufficient and it barley flew. I like lots of power. If I want something to "Fly Scale" I throttel back.

Mine requires a lot of aileron differental about 80:20 and significant rudder mixed in, if you want it to fly like a trainer. It flies just like the real deal. I have about 20 hours in a full scale 1946 7AC. The model behaves the same way. It is a "rudder" airplane. If you shift your mind to allow you to turn with the rudder and use the ailerons to coorinate the turn it will be fine. If you try to yank it around with ailerons and the elevator you will have trouble. The first 30 seconds of my first flight on it kind of freaked me out until I got that straight. You could probably not use the ailerons at all and fly it fine.

rthalls

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thanks for the reply , now I question the g-26 for power

Scota4570

The g-26 is a fine engine. It would not be my first choice. Right now I am smitten with the PTE-36. The carb is on the rear and is the exhaust. That makes for a clean installation. The power is slightly better than the DLE-30 and the weight is comprable. I am working up the courage to buy one and put it on a Bridi Big Chaos with retracts.

ahicks

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I think how well that engine is going to do is going to depend on the plane's finished weight? Any idea of where you're at?

sebo

Doesn't need flaps....this plane is a kittycat. it is a floater.
I put about1 inch on the ailerons and on the elevator in each direction..
It doesn't need a whole lot. With this much it will turn on a dime.
Doesn't need differential aileron either.
Set it up as any other plane.
Did the Maiden today.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_73...tm.htm#7346460


see last page of the thread for pictures.........

sebo

I have a single servo on the elevator as well as the rudder and on each aileron.

rthalls

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any one useing a G-26 and what weigh of finish plane how dose the G-26 do ? thanks

sebo

The servo is a JR ULTRA TORQUE DIGITAL FET SERVO, DS8411, TORQUE 155 OZ-IN, TRANSIT TIME 0.16 S/60 (4.8)
BALL BEARING, ALLOY GEAR.
COST $114.95.

full rudder

Hi, I got one and it's a floater! Mine is 18lbs and flies very well with an RCGF 26cc and an 18x6 prop.
Ailerons are around 1" up and 3/8" down (differential) and mixed with the rudder at 25%, rudder deflection
is at maximum available and elevators are around 1.5" up and down, taking off by bringing the throttle up
slowly I usually get airborne before the stick is 3/4 up... cruise is a click above 50%.
CG is around 4.75".