Black Horse Shrike Commander
01-28-2012, 06:38 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Just received my April 2012 issue of Model Airplane News. Nice review of the BH Aero Commander.
The review kind of re-spiked my interest in the Commander, so I broke down and ordered one.
I still don't know if I'll power it with a pair of 4-strokers' or go to electric power. As I mentioned in earlier posts, it appears this Commander is not set up for electric power.
The assembly manual is online. It shows a nice big access hatch on the top of the fuse, but that area directly under the hatch is already taken up for servos, battery, receiver, etc. Maybe there is someway of getting a pair of 4-cell 3300mah lipos' under that hatch ?? Won't know 'til I get the model.
My twin fleet is now about 50% glow and 50% electric. The one thing really nice about electric power is not having to clean up the choclatey oil mess at the end of the day.
Joe M.
The review kind of re-spiked my interest in the Commander, so I broke down and ordered one.
I still don't know if I'll power it with a pair of 4-strokers' or go to electric power. As I mentioned in earlier posts, it appears this Commander is not set up for electric power.
The assembly manual is online. It shows a nice big access hatch on the top of the fuse, but that area directly under the hatch is already taken up for servos, battery, receiver, etc. Maybe there is someway of getting a pair of 4-cell 3300mah lipos' under that hatch ?? Won't know 'til I get the model.
My twin fleet is now about 50% glow and 50% electric. The one thing really nice about electric power is not having to clean up the choclatey oil mess at the end of the day.
Joe M.
01-28-2012, 07:43 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
ORIGINAL: handyman 220
I think you will be very happy with the kit. It really is a beautiful plane. Also a big plus that it is on sale!
I think you will be very happy with the kit. It really is a beautiful plane. Also a big plus that it is on sale!
Appears you already have yours. How will you power it ??
Joe M.
01-28-2012, 11:10 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Hey Joe - Plan on using two .46's just like the article in MAN. Should be plenty of power, trying to keep the weight down as much as possible because without flaps it will come in hot! The airframe itself is pretty light, it's all the flying equipment that adds up quick.
02-04-2012, 09:08 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Mine arrived by FedEx yesterday......big box with no damage........no damage to model.
Black Horse states they are using Oracover covering. The covering looked great and was fairley tight, meaning I won't need to spend a lot of time retightening it.
Overall, all of the glue joints I could see looked good. All of the gear doors are already pre-sprung to stay closed when the gear is raised. The two pilots are already glued in place.
I was very impressed with the kit until I examined the supplied air retracts The retracts look very crude with very poor, very rough machining.[
] Instead of a nice final finish on the metal parts, they attempted to finish them off with a grinder..........looks terrible ! Two of the tiny nuts used to assembly the retracts were never installed and two of the nuts were stripped. I thought I could replace some of the air line components with some spare Robarts parts I have, but all of the air lines and air fittings are unique to this manufacturer. In my opinion, very poor quality on the retracts and they will most likely be trashed and be replaced by something better.
I'm still trying to decide on a power system.
If I choose electric power ? As I stated in an earlier post, even though advertized, this plane is not designed for electric power. There is nothing in the assembly manual about electric power, so you are on your own ! Looks like a nice challange to me.
Joe M.
Black Horse states they are using Oracover covering. The covering looked great and was fairley tight, meaning I won't need to spend a lot of time retightening it.
Overall, all of the glue joints I could see looked good. All of the gear doors are already pre-sprung to stay closed when the gear is raised. The two pilots are already glued in place.
I was very impressed with the kit until I examined the supplied air retracts The retracts look very crude with very poor, very rough machining.[
] Instead of a nice final finish on the metal parts, they attempted to finish them off with a grinder..........looks terrible ! Two of the tiny nuts used to assembly the retracts were never installed and two of the nuts were stripped. I thought I could replace some of the air line components with some spare Robarts parts I have, but all of the air lines and air fittings are unique to this manufacturer. In my opinion, very poor quality on the retracts and they will most likely be trashed and be replaced by something better.I'm still trying to decide on a power system.
If I choose electric power ? As I stated in an earlier post, even though advertized, this plane is not designed for electric power. There is nothing in the assembly manual about electric power, so you are on your own ! Looks like a nice challange to me.
Joe M.
02-11-2012, 04:48 PM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Appears the 81" Aero Commander had a very short shelf life ? [&o]
Had a friend of mine call Hobby People about the 81" Commander. Seems they are no longer selling it, but they have only the 58" version.[X(]
I was looking for a label on mine saying "purchase this aircraft before January 2012 or it may self-destruct".
Joe M.
Had a friend of mine call Hobby People about the 81" Commander. Seems they are no longer selling it, but they have only the 58" version.[X(]
I was looking for a label on mine saying "purchase this aircraft before January 2012 or it may self-destruct".
Joe M.
02-12-2012, 04:46 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
To me that is one of the biggest downfalls to HP arfs. They seem to have a very limited shelf life. I also have the GS Ryan, 90 size Corsair, & the Glasair 120 all no longer available. I guess that's one way to keep new sales alive. []
I also have the GS Ryan, 90 size Corsair, & the Glasair 120 all no longer available. I guess that's one way to keep new sales alive. []
02-12-2012, 06:19 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
ORIGINAL: handyman 220
To me that is one of the biggest downfalls to HP arfs. They seem to have a very limited shelf life. I also have the GS Ryan, 90 size Corsair, & the Glasair 120 all no longer available. I guess that's one way to keep new sales alive. []
To me that is one of the biggest downfalls to HP arfs. They seem to have a very limited shelf life.
I also have the GS Ryan, 90 size Corsair, & the Glasair 120 all no longer available. I guess that's one way to keep new sales alive. []
We may need to change the name of this thread to the handyman 220/Joe Mamma thread.
Are you and I the only two people in the U.S. that have this Commander ? If so, it may be very rare about ten years from now.
Maybe I should keep mine brand-new in-the-box. Someday it may be worth a lot of money.
Joe M.
02-12-2012, 08:01 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
yeah I'm very disappointed with the responses on this thread. It is a beautiful plane, but the initial price I think was a deterrent. If HP can sell it for their "special" price and still make money, there is no reason to gouge the buyers. Play the numbers, make a little less profit but sell more product in the long run. [8D] Also the lack of spare parts is not a selling point.
02-12-2012, 06:00 PM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
ORIGINAL: handyman 220
yeah I'm very disappointed with the responses on this thread. It is a beautiful plane, but the initial price I think was a deterrent. If HP can sell it for their ''special'' price and still make money, there is no reason to gouge the buyers. Play the numbers, make a little less profit but sell more product in the long run. [8D] Also the lack of spare parts is not a selling point.
yeah I'm very disappointed with the responses on this thread. It is a beautiful plane, but the initial price I think was a deterrent. If HP can sell it for their ''special'' price and still make money, there is no reason to gouge the buyers. Play the numbers, make a little less profit but sell more product in the long run. [8D] Also the lack of spare parts is not a selling point.
Only Hobby People has stopped selling it. I noticed Graves RC down in Florida is still selling it, but unfortunately at a higher price. You can also get the model from some UK and Australian hobby shops.
As I mentioned earlier, I'll be replacing the supplied rotating retracts with some other brand.
I still haven't figured out a power system, but am shooting for electric power.
Joe M.
02-14-2012, 03:35 PM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Hi guys Iv'e been following this thread for a while. Saw the BH commander in a mag last April could not get any info on it so I bought the TNP commander kit. Took almost 4 months to build. Tough build but worth it. Flew very well till I had a bad case of dumb thumbs. Anyway, 2 weeks ago I was able to buy the BH ep powered commander - smaller one of the 2 from Graves r/c in Orlando Fl. Took a week to assemble. It is built and covered beautifully. Only mod was to enlarge the hatch to enable putting 2 2200mah batts as far forward as possible. Still needed nose weights. Will try to maiden it this week and will come back with pi-rep. Steve
03-07-2012, 08:56 AM
#115
RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
At first le me say thanks for the infos about the weak Retracts, I checked this Thread seconds before buying one...
This Beauty is available in Germany, around 470 $....
I´m sad about the Retracts.. so a nice looking Bird ! I´m looking for a Twin - Trainer before Building my Mick Reeves Mosquito.
I flew many Years Full Scale Turbine Twins ( KingAir 200/ 300 and Cessna 406 ) so I think it would be a good Idea to DON´T
start with a taildraggered Warbird ( Twinmans Tips ) .
Also Thinking about flying the Mossi with E-Engines and a 2 Soundmodules...
But I have 2 brandnew ENYA 155 for the Mossi, and flying with " Real Engines " sounds also very nice..
So`I´m a bit confused.... Just thinking about the Seagull Twin Comanche or , absolut cheap in Germany ( 230,- $ ) ,
a Hangar9 B-25 .
Any Ideas for a nice looking Twintrainer?
Good luck with Your Commanders
Regards
Andy
Here is the review for the Aero Commander :
http://www.modelairplanenews-digital...204?pg=28#pg28
This Beauty is available in Germany, around 470 $....
I´m sad about the Retracts.. so a nice looking Bird ! I´m looking for a Twin - Trainer before Building my Mick Reeves Mosquito.
I flew many Years Full Scale Turbine Twins ( KingAir 200/ 300 and Cessna 406 ) so I think it would be a good Idea to DON´T
start with a taildraggered Warbird ( Twinmans Tips ) .
Also Thinking about flying the Mossi with E-Engines and a 2 Soundmodules...
But I have 2 brandnew ENYA 155 for the Mossi, and flying with " Real Engines " sounds also very nice..
So`I´m a bit confused.... Just thinking about the Seagull Twin Comanche or , absolut cheap in Germany ( 230,- $ ) ,
a Hangar9 B-25 .
Any Ideas for a nice looking Twintrainer?
Good luck with Your Commanders
Regards
Andy
Here is the review for the Aero Commander :
http://www.modelairplanenews-digital...204?pg=28#pg28
03-07-2012, 11:45 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Any Ideas for a nice looking Twintrainer?
I have had my Hobbico TwinStar for about ten years. It's fairly low cost and is a very forgiving twin trainer. It's still available from Tower Hobby.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXJPH0&P=ML
Joe M.
03-08-2012, 03:47 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Andy, I have a Dual Ace from Seagull and it is a beauty and the admiration of everyone at the club. 2 x 40 2-S is enough. I also finished a Cessna 337 and now waiting for better weather here in Scotland.
03-13-2012, 12:29 PM
#118
RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Thanks Joe and Jaime,
a DualAce would be an option... but the Commander is so beautiful....
Maybe I'll start with an 88 inch Mosquito or an KMP BF110 ARF...
But I hope You will fix the Problems.On the other hand there is a nice Beach G58 Kit, maybe better Quality?
www.scaleflying.com
Regards
Andy
a DualAce would be an option... but the Commander is so beautiful....
Maybe I'll start with an 88 inch Mosquito or an KMP BF110 ARF...
But I hope You will fix the Problems.On the other hand there is a nice Beach G58 Kit, maybe better Quality?
www.scaleflying.com
Regards
Andy
03-14-2012, 04:19 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Hi Everyone,
Just found this thread. I have the 81 inch BH Shrike and have just completed it with full electric (motors and gear). I used the E-Flite 46 motors and 60amp speed controllers. I replaced the retracts with electric (this was fun!) once I found a set that had rotating mains and could handle this size plane. Mouting the motors took a little searching because using the stock mount that comes with the E-Flite 46 motors, you need to bring it out 1.75 inches. I found some standoffs at Horizon Hobby for an Evolution engine that were exactly 1.75 inches. The great thing is that using this setup, two of the 4 holes already drilled in the firewalls matched up perfectly and centered the motor right where it needed to be. Just need to drill the other two holes.
The electric gear I used was from www.parkrcmodels.com
1 x RC Lander Large Scale Rotating Electric Retract Landing Gear (RCLMERROT) = $149.95
Main Rotation Choice 90 degree Rotating Mains
Rotating Retract Options Standard - 2 Rotating Mains with Std Nose Gear Base
I had to do some internal work to build up the platform inside the wing to accept the two main gear mounts but after doing that, they fit pretty well. I can give more details if anyone would like.
At this point, the plane is ready to fly but has not had its first jump into the air. Hope to do this in the next couple weeks. Ohio weather is pretty unpredictable at this time of year so who knows when it will be good enough for a first flight.
Kent
Just found this thread. I have the 81 inch BH Shrike and have just completed it with full electric (motors and gear). I used the E-Flite 46 motors and 60amp speed controllers. I replaced the retracts with electric (this was fun!) once I found a set that had rotating mains and could handle this size plane. Mouting the motors took a little searching because using the stock mount that comes with the E-Flite 46 motors, you need to bring it out 1.75 inches. I found some standoffs at Horizon Hobby for an Evolution engine that were exactly 1.75 inches. The great thing is that using this setup, two of the 4 holes already drilled in the firewalls matched up perfectly and centered the motor right where it needed to be. Just need to drill the other two holes.
The electric gear I used was from www.parkrcmodels.com
1 x RC Lander Large Scale Rotating Electric Retract Landing Gear (RCLMERROT) = $149.95
Main Rotation Choice 90 degree Rotating Mains
Rotating Retract Options Standard - 2 Rotating Mains with Std Nose Gear Base
I had to do some internal work to build up the platform inside the wing to accept the two main gear mounts but after doing that, they fit pretty well. I can give more details if anyone would like.
At this point, the plane is ready to fly but has not had its first jump into the air. Hope to do this in the next couple weeks. Ohio weather is pretty unpredictable at this time of year so who knows when it will be good enough for a first flight.
Kent
03-14-2012, 03:35 PM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
ORIGINAL: kcforsythe
Hi Everyone,
Just found this thread. I have the 81 inch BH Shrike and have just completed it with full electric (motors and gear). I used the E-Flite 46 motors and 60amp speed controllers. I replaced the retracts with electric (this was fun!) once I found a set that had rotating mains and could handle this size plane. Mouting the motors took a little searching because using the stock mount that comes with the E-Flite 46 motors, you need to bring it out 1.75 inches. I found some standoffs at Horizon Hobby for an Evolution engine that were exactly 1.75 inches. The great thing is that using this setup, two of the 4 holes already drilled in the firewalls matched up perfectly and centered the motor right where it needed to be. Just need to drill the other two holes.
The electric gear I used was from www.parkrcmodels.com
1 x RC Lander Large Scale Rotating Electric Retract Landing Gear (RCLMERROT) = $149.95
Main Rotation Choice 90 degree Rotating Mains
Rotating Retract Options Standard - 2 Rotating Mains with Std Nose Gear Base
I had to do some internal work to build up the platform inside the wing to accept the two main gear mounts but after doing that, they fit pretty well. I can give more details if anyone would like.
At this point, the plane is ready to fly but has not had its first jump into the air. Hope to do this in the next couple weeks. Ohio weather is pretty unpredictable at this time of year so who knows when it will be good enough for a first flight.
Kent
Hi Everyone,
Just found this thread. I have the 81 inch BH Shrike and have just completed it with full electric (motors and gear). I used the E-Flite 46 motors and 60amp speed controllers. I replaced the retracts with electric (this was fun!) once I found a set that had rotating mains and could handle this size plane. Mouting the motors took a little searching because using the stock mount that comes with the E-Flite 46 motors, you need to bring it out 1.75 inches. I found some standoffs at Horizon Hobby for an Evolution engine that were exactly 1.75 inches. The great thing is that using this setup, two of the 4 holes already drilled in the firewalls matched up perfectly and centered the motor right where it needed to be. Just need to drill the other two holes.
The electric gear I used was from www.parkrcmodels.com
1 x RC Lander Large Scale Rotating Electric Retract Landing Gear (RCLMERROT) = $149.95
Main Rotation Choice 90 degree Rotating Mains
Rotating Retract Options Standard - 2 Rotating Mains with Std Nose Gear Base
I had to do some internal work to build up the platform inside the wing to accept the two main gear mounts but after doing that, they fit pretty well. I can give more details if anyone would like.
At this point, the plane is ready to fly but has not had its first jump into the air. Hope to do this in the next couple weeks. Ohio weather is pretty unpredictable at this time of year so who knows when it will be good enough for a first flight.
Kent
I’m sorry to see the sale of this plane has been so slow..........no not slow, almost non-existent.
Glad to see you are almost ready for the maiden. I still haven’t started assembly on mine; just doing some figuring on how to power it and what kind of retracts to use.
Wow.......EFlite 46’s ! That should be REALLY overpowered ![X(] Nothing wrong with that as you DO have a throttle.
I have been using the smaller EFlite 32’s on both my Hangar 9 Twin Otter and my EFlite Deuces Wild (twin). Both of these planes weigh about the same as the BH Commander and are both supposed to fly OK even using the much smaller EFlite 25’s. I can’t wait until I see your flight report with the 46’s !
I was doing some studying about the placement of the lipos. Any chance you have any pictures of your lipo placement ? I was planning on using my existing 4-cell 3300mah lipos.
Joe M.
03-15-2012, 03:16 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Hi Joe,
I don't have pictures right now of my battery placement but I can take some and post them (if I can figure out how to post pictures). Basically, I build an open balsa box that is glued into the forward area of the fuselage just behind the cockpit. The lipos (2 x 4S, 4000mah) slide into the box and then a velcro strap holds them in. This put the CG at pretty close the recommended location. The videos I've seen of the plane flying make it look pretty pitch sensitive so I'm planning on using plenty of expo on the elevator.
I ended up going with the 46 motors just because they were only about $5 more than the 32's and as you said, I can always throttle back. I'm hoping to get some good flight durations and keep everything cool using this method. I have a Nitroplanes Cessna 421 that I've been flying for a couple of years on electric and this setup seems to work well. We'll see...
I should have some pictures available in the next couple of days.
Kent
I don't have pictures right now of my battery placement but I can take some and post them (if I can figure out how to post pictures). Basically, I build an open balsa box that is glued into the forward area of the fuselage just behind the cockpit. The lipos (2 x 4S, 4000mah) slide into the box and then a velcro strap holds them in. This put the CG at pretty close the recommended location. The videos I've seen of the plane flying make it look pretty pitch sensitive so I'm planning on using plenty of expo on the elevator.
I ended up going with the 46 motors just because they were only about $5 more than the 32's and as you said, I can always throttle back. I'm hoping to get some good flight durations and keep everything cool using this method. I have a Nitroplanes Cessna 421 that I've been flying for a couple of years on electric and this setup seems to work well. We'll see...
I should have some pictures available in the next couple of days.
Kent
03-15-2012, 03:57 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
ORIGINAL: kcforsythe
Hi Joe,
I don't have pictures right now of my battery placement but I can take some and post them (if I can figure out how to post pictures). Basically, I build an open balsa box that is glued into the forward area of the fuselage just behind the cockpit. The lipos (2 x 4S, 4000mah) slide into the box and then a velcro strap holds them in. This put the CG at pretty close the recommended location. The videos I've seen of the plane flying make it look pretty pitch sensitive so I'm planning on using plenty of expo on the elevator.
I ended up going with the 46 motors just because they were only about $5 more than the 32's and as you said, I can always throttle back. I'm hoping to get some good flight durations and keep everything cool using this method. I have a Nitroplanes Cessna 421 that I've been flying for a couple of years on electric and this setup seems to work well. We'll see...
I should have some pictures available in the next couple of days.
Kent
Hi Joe,
I don't have pictures right now of my battery placement but I can take some and post them (if I can figure out how to post pictures). Basically, I build an open balsa box that is glued into the forward area of the fuselage just behind the cockpit. The lipos (2 x 4S, 4000mah) slide into the box and then a velcro strap holds them in. This put the CG at pretty close the recommended location. The videos I've seen of the plane flying make it look pretty pitch sensitive so I'm planning on using plenty of expo on the elevator.
I ended up going with the 46 motors just because they were only about $5 more than the 32's and as you said, I can always throttle back. I'm hoping to get some good flight durations and keep everything cool using this method. I have a Nitroplanes Cessna 421 that I've been flying for a couple of years on electric and this setup seems to work well. We'll see...
I should have some pictures available in the next couple of days.
Kent
CG and lipo location are the problems I was having with mine. I'm glad to hear you were able to get the CG dialed in by installing the lipos through the top hatch. This will save me a lot of time as I thought I may need to open up and redesign the nosecone for lipo placement. You probably noticed in the Commander manual there is not a single word about electric power, so we are on our own.
Before I got the BH Commander I had been planning on getting the "Scale Flying" Beechcraft G58 Baron. It's about the same size and weight as the BH Commander, but the lipos are installed up in the nose.
The 46's will also help me if using scale-like 3-blade props. The picture is of the props on my Hangar 9 Twin Otter.
You mentioned posting pictures ? You need to get a 10-11 year old computer expert.
They always seem to know a lot more about computers than me.Joe M.
03-15-2012, 04:19 PM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Joe,
OK...I took some pictures. They're with my iPhone so they're not the best but I think you'll see how I did things. Hopefully my upload of the files worked here. We'll see
Kent
OK...I took some pictures. They're with my iPhone so they're not the best but I think you'll see how I did things. Hopefully my upload of the files worked here. We'll see
Kent
03-16-2012, 03:59 PM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
ORIGINAL: kcforsythe
Joe,
OK...I took some pictures. They're with my iPhone so they're not the best but I think you'll see how I did things. Hopefully my upload of the files worked here. We'll see
Kent
Joe,
OK...I took some pictures. They're with my iPhone so they're not the best but I think you'll see how I did things. Hopefully my upload of the files worked here. We'll see
Kent
Your pictures are just fine. Thanks again for the help on the electric conversion.
It should be fairly easy to make up a box for the lipos. I'm just glad I don't need to butch up the nosecone.
It appears you did what I was planning to do on the supplied nose gear. You adapted it to your electric nose retract.
I'll probably use the EFlite 32's on mine. The reason is........... I already know it's a great combination with the EFlite 80amp ESC's, my 4-cell 3300mah lipos, and a set of Master Airscrew 12x6 3-bladers. I've been flying my Twin Otter for about two years with this combo.
Can't wait for your flight report.
The Ohio weather you mentioned ? Don't know about your location, but we have been having very high, unseasonal temps for about a week now. Temps should be in the high 60's and low 70's for another week. That's all right with me. It's flying time !
Joe M.
03-17-2012, 07:57 AM
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RE: Black Horse Shrike Commander
Hey Joe,
Now that I've got everything in the plane and could do a more accurate balance, it turns out I am going to have to either add some weight in the nose or move one of the lipos forward to get the 6mm balance from the leading edge. I need to determine how much I'd need to add before I decide whether I'll just add weight or do a move of a lipo. There's definitely room in the nose to add weight but I hate to increase the overall weight. If it's just a little, that's probably what I'll do though.
My first check of the balance was a little crude but I used a precise craddle this time and you're concerns are unfortunately valid. []
I'll let you now how it turns out. Heading to the LHS today to pick up some items to complete the work.
Our weather here has been very warm. Amazingly, I've been out 4 times already this season, mostly flying heli's.
One other thing I'm going to try is setting the ailerons up as flaperons and see if I can get the speed slowed more for landing.
Do you know why they have you drill into the wing tube and put screws down from the top of the wings? With two wing bolts on each side, I wouldn't think this would be needed. I've never seen a plane do this before. Just seems like overkill.
More later....
Kent
Now that I've got everything in the plane and could do a more accurate balance, it turns out I am going to have to either add some weight in the nose or move one of the lipos forward to get the 6mm balance from the leading edge. I need to determine how much I'd need to add before I decide whether I'll just add weight or do a move of a lipo. There's definitely room in the nose to add weight but I hate to increase the overall weight. If it's just a little, that's probably what I'll do though.
My first check of the balance was a little crude but I used a precise craddle this time and you're concerns are unfortunately valid. [
]I'll let you now how it turns out. Heading to the LHS today to pick up some items to complete the work.
Our weather here has been very warm. Amazingly, I've been out 4 times already this season, mostly flying heli's.
One other thing I'm going to try is setting the ailerons up as flaperons and see if I can get the speed slowed more for landing.
Do you know why they have you drill into the wing tube and put screws down from the top of the wings? With two wing bolts on each side, I wouldn't think this would be needed. I've never seen a plane do this before. Just seems like overkill.
More later....
Kent