denodan

I have been learning to hover a Blade 450 heli, on the Pheonix flight sim, got a lot better at hovering, but turning is very tricky. How do you go about learning to turn without crashing? What are the tips for turning?

tried the lasy mans turn, alerions only so sliding into turns, it ok going into them, but straigthing out is the problem, and can do proper turns, but gets away on me, learning to striaghten out the turn is the problem? How do you do slow controlled turns?

I can turn fine, but strighteninjg out or slowing down is the problem.

I guess a flight sim has it's problems also, the heli goes so small you cannot see the orentation of your heli.

dignlivn

Can you hover side in and nose in ??


Bob

denodan

Not perfectly yet, but not doing nose in. Got advice from someone saying don't worry to much about nose in, or the nose facing you to hover, after awhile it comes naturally, nose in controls are reversed.

I was just trying turns. I can turn wonderfully, but the copter gets away on me, but yes maybe trying far to soon anyway. Better crashing a heli on the sim rather then the real thing.

Flying my AR Drone, and Blade MQX, I never put to much into hovering with nose facing you, but can fly quite natrually with nose facing me, controls reversed, so comes naturally anyway, or is, just have to remember when the nose is facing me, everything is reversed, most times I get it right, at odd times I have to think about it, so not 100% there,

So not worried about nose facing you yet, as my experence is it comes to you without thinking, find my AR Drone easier, and can fly in all directions ok, but the MQX feels different than the AR Drone, slightly harder.

Rafael23cc

My Feedback: (6)

Flying nose in and hovering nose in are two completely different animals. Seems to me like you have the flying nose in part pretty much handled, but you should really practice the hovering part, it is much harder than what you seem to think.

Ok, lets go into turns... While in forward flight, using aileron, slightly bank the helicopter in the direction you want to go. Use elevator to direct the nose in the same direction as the turn (pull up on the elevator). As you go around, use the rudder to keep the tail behind the nose (make a coordinated turn in full scale pilot lingo). As you get to the point you want, just let go the pull on the elevator, release the rudder, and bring the helicopter back to level with aileron.

Hope that helps a bit.

Rafael

denodan

Found an easy turning tip on You Tube, go forward, then bring the nose up slightly as you use the rudder, seems an easy way of turning to start off with and don't lose control of the heli and half the time land safely, but lucky I am using the sim, lost count of the times I have crashed.

I find turning this way I have more control and levelling off is easy.

Jorge Obama

if you don't like tuning by yourself,send it to me,I can do it for you

nothinbetr2do

he's not asking about tuning, he's asking about turning

cmgtech1

sorry to see this thread so late.

1) you cannot bank and yank like you can an airplane.

2) lead with aileron, then apply rudder in the same direction. If the tail is lower than the nose then you are not using enough rudder. If the tail is riding higher than the nose, you have more rudder than you need. To begin with, it's much much better to have the tail higher than the nose (using too much rudder) than letting the tail drag below the nose (not enough rudder). If you keep the tail higher than the nose through the turn, you will notice that the helicopter will look like it's skidding through the turn (much like a dirt track sprint car goes through a turn). The goal is to fly through a turn with the boom and tail level with the nose. This is a properly coordinated forward flight turn. You will also learn to use the collective stick to control your altitude instead of the elevator, but some slight elevator input may be used to help pull the nose through the turn. Too much elevator though and you'll find the tail low and get into trouble quickly.

3) when learning forward flight, you will quickly have to figure out how to turn the helicopter! A shallow stall turn may be an easy way to make the helicopter turn around. Once in forward flight, simply apply a little aft cyclic (up elevator if you want to use airplane terms). You will notice the helicopter slow in it's forward progress. As it approaches it's "stall" simply kick the helicopter around 180 degrees with the rudder and the helicopter will be turned around and heading back. The nose will be pointed down so once it gets going again, you will need to level it out by applying some aft cyclic (up elevator). Rinse and repeat. Again.. the stall turns do not need to be steep, a shallow climb will bring the helicopter to a stand still at some point. Use the rudder to flip the tail around and get the nose pointed back down the flight line. As you get comfortable with this, you can start using a small amount of aileron to do a mild climbing turn. Just be sure to kick that tail around once the helicopter reaches the apex of the stall turn.

There may be other (better) methods of learning forward flight, but this is the method I used and it worked for me. Unlike flying planks, you must use rudder to fly a helicopter. The nice thing is that your plank flying will automatically become better as you learn to use the left stick on a helicopter. Once the rudder becomes second nature to you on the helicopter, you will find that you also use instinctively use rudder while flying planks as well, and your flying will look so much better because of it!


Stall turn = slight pull on the aft cyclic (up elevator). Once the helicopter nears the stall, apply rudder (either direction) to kick the tail around so that the helicopter is pointing back toward where it came from. As the helicopter starts coming back, it should be in a shallow dive. Level the helicopter with elevator and perhaps a bit of positive collective.

Coordinated turn = start the turn (left for this example) with a small amount of left aileron, and then start applying left rudder, and perhaps a tiny smidge of aft cyclic (up elevator). The key is to not let the tail ride lower than the nose of the helicopter. If the tail rides high, the helicopter will slide through the turn, but it will turn. If the tail rides low, you run the risk of entering into a tail slide that will not end well for the helicopter or your wallet. The goal is to have the boom and tail remain level with the nose through the turn, but the reality is that having the tail ride a little high makes life a bit less stressful.

Good luck.

Chris

denodan

Find using stall turns and from there can do proper turns, from a stall turn.

TakeshiSkunk

If you have to think about it and work out tricks to make it easier you're not doing it properly and it will probably get away from you at some point. You can't really just write up a recipe for how to do different maneuvers in a helicopter, you have to be flying and correcting the thing constantly. Work on all of your upright hovering orientations until they're all natural and then ease yourself into turns from forward flight. Just make a gentle bank and use your other control inputs to make it look right. Turns will come naturally as you become more familiar with helicopters.

One common mistake with beginners working on turns is overbanking. If you keep rolling you'll eventually get to a point where you just slide off and fall out of the sky. Establish the bank you want and then make small adjustments to keep it at that angle as you would if you were hovering, you'll be surprised how often you use opposite aileron in a turn.

The best trick to learning new maneuvers is to think through them and know exactly what your escape plan is at all times. Know what you need to do to return to a hover or just an orientation that you don't have to think about if stuff starts to get away from you at all, and revert to that the instant you think things might not go the way you want them to. Learning on a real helicopter is about flying very conservatively, sim training lets you be a lot more experimental and direct about things.

denodan

I know in the simulator can turn pretty well. Found to get started is doing a stall turn, and from there can do proper turns in the sim. The Stall turn trick was listed on You Tube as the easiest way to learn turns, and seems to work.

I would think in real life, things will be different, and will need lots more hover practice. The real helicopter will be different and do not intend to try turns when I get my helicopter working, which I hope will be this week.

TakeshiSkunk

Actually, I feel like doing nice clean turns may be a little easier in real life. As always, don't do anything you aren't yet comfortable with, but when you start working on them with a real helicopter you may be pleasantly surprised.

rcfs

The first turn that every heli pilot learns is a pirouette using the rudder to point the nose in different directions while hovering. These turns are usually limited to 90 or 180 degrees so they are over with before needing very many adjustments. Executing a forward flight 180 degree procedure turn using the aileron to bank the heli and holding in rudder and elevator to carve around the turn is much more intricate and requires techniques very different from those used to hover.

First of all understand that the rudder is held in throughout a procedure turn and that the amount largely determines how wide or tight the turn will be. Thus, proficient pilots commit to holding a small rudder input when they intend to perform wider turns, or a slightly larger rudder input when they intend to perform tighter turns. The bank angle also goes hand in hand with the rudder input. For example, holding a small rudder input requires a shallower bank (smaller aileron input) to gently carve around the turn without skidding, whereas a slightly larger rudder input requires a steeper bank to cleanly carve around the turn. The bank angle then determines how prone the heli is to losing altitude and thus how much elevator is required to keep the turn level, i.e., the steeper the bank, the more inclined the heli is to dropping, and thus the more elevator you’ll need to pull to keep the turn level, and vice-versa.

Altogether, the first step is to establish moderate to high speed forward flight. The procedure turn is then initiated by coordinating small amounts of rudder and aileron, followed by pulling elevator. The rudder is held in and adjusted to cleanly carve around the turn without skidding while the elevator is adjusted to keep the turn level. The turn is then completed by removing the rudder and elevator and applying opposite aileron to return to level.

Finer Points
In order to cleanly carve around the turn without skidding, pilots must learn to fine tune the amount of rudder they’re holding and/or fine tune the bank angle (figure 2). For example, when the nose of the heli points to the outside of the turn (not enough rudder relative to the bank angle), the solution is to add more rudder and/or shallow the bank angle. Or, when the heli skids into the turn (too much rudder relative to the bank angle), the solution is to lessen the rudder and/or steepen the bank. There’s no magic solution for quickly learning to coordinate these inputs. Depending on the setup and other factors, it takes practice to develop this skill. Although, a good understanding going into your sim practice will put you well ahead of the curve.

While all procedure turns require some elevator, slower speed turns rely more on power adjustments to maintain level flight, whereas higher speed turns rely primarily on using the elevator to correct altitude changes. Bottom line, correct altitude changes during a turn with elevator, but if attempts to arrest a descent with the elevator don’t produce immediate results, add more power.

If you pull too much elevator during a turn and cause the heli to lose forward momentum, you’ll have to push forward elevator to lower the nose and reestablish forward movement while adding power to prevent a loss of altitude.

Note: It’s very easy to forget to hold in the rudder when making other adjustments during the turn. If this occurs, the tail rotor gyro will prevent the nose from turning and cause the heli to enter a sideways skid and back-slide into the ground if the rudder isn’t reapplied in time. Thus, you must make it a priority to continue holding in the rudder throughout the entire turn. In fact, if you’re going to make a mistake while turning, it would be better to input slightly too much rudder and end up hastening the finish of the turn versus dealing with the awkward perspective of the heli pointing away from the turn when not enough rudder is used (figure 3). On a related note: The solution whenever you lose orientation is often to add more rudder in order to alter the heli and achieve a clearer perspective.

Precision Turns
A slightly more intricate turn technique used by competition pilots to achieve a more axial entry into the turn consists of sequencing the bank input first, then applying and holding in the rudder and elevator. In other words, the rudder and elevator are delayed until the bank has been established (figure 4). A precise exit of the turn is similarly accomplished by neutralizing the rudder and elevator when the nose points exactly where you intend to fly, and then applying aileron only to achieve an axial rollout to level. Keep in mind that precision turn entries and exits typically require higher entry speeds in order to generate the inertia needed to execute the steps without losing altitude.

Taken from 1st US RC Flight School's Heli Flight Training manual