68gts

My Feedback: (2)

i am... i will be getting a zinger 16x8 the next trip to the local hobby shop...the master airscrew prop im using it for break in...which i still have to do...i brought the plane to the field just to take the pics...i did fly the extra though...i still need to maiden the revolver yet

capt1597

zinger was not on microdon's list, pick one off of microdon's list. it is a great list. stay with the list. you will not be disappointed. just my $0.02 ,capt

68gts

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which apc prop do you suggest?...i was only getting a zinger as my local hobby shop sells zinger,apc and master airscrew

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Great shots. I hope to get my rev built again and keep this one and have the same pair as you. Hopefully third times a charm..

I use Xoar exclusively. Very high quality props. I dont like how heavy the APCs are. The last few MAs i bought for my trainer were very flimsy. And the tracking was off, so they were trash. I would like to take a look at the MA S-2. they might be stiffer. They look cool.

Get a 17x6 Xoar for that DLE20. You will love it. Its got great pull. If you want really blazing speed go 16x6 or 15x8. The 17 is fast though. The revolver is just sleek. A buddy has a 70" extra 300 with the same engine and same prop I use and the Rev is way way faster! Id say its about 60-70mph straight and level....

But in my opinion the xoar quality is worth the couple extra bucks. and they are beautiful... I have never had a Xoar that didnt have perfect tracking. The small props are really easy to balance. They need more balancing done vertically that horizontally. I order them from tower because my LHS rarely has the size i need when i need em.

I like what someone else said on RCU......zinger props are best used for stirring paint....

Jeremy

68gts

My Feedback: (2)

Looks like i'll be pulling out the tower catalog ... now if i can only order what i NEED

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

68gts Ive got a bunch of 15x8s and a couple of 16x6s balanced and ready to go. Ill sell you a couple for 10 each plus shipping. I got a little carried away on the 15x8 order when i got my first Revolver.

Just and offer for a friend....

I think ive got 4 15x8s and two 16x6s. Im gonna be using the 17x6.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

mach2 - I'll take you up on that prop offer if 68gts doesn't want them. Agreed - Xoars are beautiful, light props. But I still get the occasional ground strike, and APC's handle that much better. btw - I also tried a Zinger once - I was amazed at how much thrust I lost compared to an APC of the same size. I'll save my Zingers for the next time I paint my room.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

what size are you interested in, the 15x8s or the 16x6s? Im gonna keep a 15x8 or two since I have not used one yet and Id just like to see it screamin along at 100+mph just for giggles...


My feelings on prop strike are that Iwant to damage the prop and not the motor or plane. The prop shattering is much better than it being tough and transfering all that shock to the engine, mounts and fuse. And since the APC is so heavy, that is robbing lots of power. It has to rotate a lot more mass. Im gonna go out and weigh my xoar and the apc that i took off the extra 300 to see the difference.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Well ive got my DLE20 stripped all the way down to the bare case. I love how easy this engine is to work on. Its been in two horrific crashes nose first and this is only time ive had to replace something. the last crash was just an inspection. The exception of course is the cdi. its got destroyed in both crashes. Even if it hadn't, I still woulda replaced it because i wouldnt trust that something wasnt damaged internally and may fail later. (which is what I should have done with my Rx and I may still have my second Rev alive).

The parts for the engine are really affordable compared to a glow motor. A new piston and sleeve for them are over 70 bucks. A new piston for theDLE is 9 bucks and doesnt use a sleeve. I probably didnt need a new crank but i got one anyway because i wasnt sure if the bearings had damaged it or not. And theres always the chance of me damaging it while removing it from the case. The crankshaft is less than $30 and I think the bearings were around 20.

Hopefully it will run as good as it did before because i had almost a gallon through it and it was running really well. The hanging idle issue had gone away and I had it tuned perfectly. Im sure it will be good since im doing the same thing I did last time and using the same piston and ring with the same cylinder head. Anyone rebuilding a DLE20, remember that the ring gap is oriented to the intake side of the cylinder, or opposite of the muffler. I called the support guys to find out. I was surprised that the guy could actually give me an answer. He had to go ask someone else, but I figured he would just say something like, "uhh, I dont think it really matters".

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Wow. I didnt think it would be that much of a difference. I weighed the xoar after i balanced it so there is added weight on the hub. Check out the pics. the weight was measured in grams. That's a lot of power robbing weight.....

the APC is a 11x4 and the xoar is a 11x7

Jeremy

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

The weight on the apc vs the xoar does not mean the APC will rob power because of the extra weight. It is actually more fluid and holds better power through an even spectrum. Some of the experts can chime in but once you start moving more weight, the weight can be maintained easier than moving less weight. In other words, once the weight starts moving it is easy to keep it moving. There are many variables involved though.

Maybe this is different with propellors, however from the small amount of flying I do I can tell there are some similar characteristics involved. I forget the principle behind this, however I have used both APC and Xoar and the APC actually out performs the Xoar for normal flying with CERTAIN engines and flying styles. Keep in mind, it all depends on flying style as they each have their place.

The lighter will certainly spool up quicker because it is light and that can be enough benefit on its own, however it also flexes more and drops RPMs faster and often works the engine harder. There is a lot of science behind this. When I was working with auto mechanics I used to always think that a lighter flywheel was better until I realized the purpose of how a torque converter or flywheel worked. There are benefits on both sides of the fence though and the key is to get a good matchup.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Luchnia - What you're saying sounds right to me. Certainly the lighter prop will spool up quicker - probably an advantage in 3D. But I"m not flying 3D with the Revolver. And I can see advantages of the "flywheel" effect, which could actually smooth out the engine. I think the momentum helps in hand-starting. And, in my limited applications, I really haven't seem much of a performance difference between APC and Xoar. Though I haven't done extensive, scientific testing. I"m sure some other could comment with more experience.

Slow and Steady

Less mass, less momentum, quicker response. I love the Vess line of props, because they quickly spool up and down, and have good vertical. But if your eating props on a regular basis, APC might be more forgiving. Then again, using a chipped prop may damage bearings if it is now out of balance. But I know folks who use them all the time and think they are a real trash can find.

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

S&S - I'm not saying I"m using chipped props - I'm saying I've found APC's much more sturdy than Xoars. Haven't tried Vess yet - will have to.

eldad007

Hello everyone
i have the 70 revolver for 3 months, and i have the st g-75 on it.
i love this plane, but ita a little bit lazy engine.
i want t upgrade my engine to be much faster and much more powerfull.
so - what do you say:
1. OS 95AX
2. DLE 20CC

if its DLE: is there some changes that i have to do for the plane before i will change to DLE?

Regrads
Eldad

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Eldad - Both are supposed to be very good engines for this plane. From experience I know that the DLE 20 is an excellent match - it provides plenty of power and speed and the engine and fuel are cheaper \ much cheaper than nitro.

I'd say the decision might hinge on a few points - would this be your first gasser? If so there's a bit of a gas learning curve. Are you looking solely for speed and not concerned with vertical? (I'd say the DLE 20 has the edge in vertical, but can also be very quick, depending on the prop). What about the sound? I prefer the sound of the DLE 20 to a 2-stroke .95.

If the DLE20 IS your first gasser then I strongly suggest you read the DLE 20 thread here on RCU ("RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)" . Lots of great info, including a sticky on the first post that will answer lots of questions. Personally I love my gas engines, but stick with nitro on the smaller. And, for the in-between sizes, like the Rev 70, there is a guilty pleasure about the simplicity of nitro. Though with gas the cleanup is lots easier.

Other differences - for the gasser you'll need gas-compatible tubing and gas-tank stopper, barbs on the stopper tubes (otherwise the tube will slide off), reinforcing the firewall (gassers vibrate more), mixing oil into the gas, having a separate fuel pump for gas, learning how the gasser works with the electronic ignition, learning how to tune, High vs Low speed needles, running the gasser "wet" or rich when new, working the choke, learning how to trouble-shoot carb \ throttle \ idle issues, installing a remote kill switch or choke control, and you'll need to ensure there's no metal contact between the engine and the servos.

Believe me - I'm no expert - still learning myself. But there's plenty of guys her on RCU willing to answer questions. My recommendation would be go with the DLE 20 and learn about gassers.

capt1597

the gas option is great and is well stated as such in this thread. the glow option is also great in this size plane. with the glow the pluses are the weight savings. my plane is now flying at 8lbs 15ozs with an os91fx. the gas bird are almost at 10lbs i believe. this is a 10% difference and that is big in my book. i prefer the lighter is better approach. also, what about smell? both on the fingers and when the plane flys by. this is very important. i like the smell of glow, takes me back to my u-control days as a little boy. i can't get that from gas. hey, do what you want it's all good. capt p.s. did i mention that the glows are faster! also very important. not!

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I saw a Vess prop on a plane and I was impressed with the quality of the prop and it did not appear to flex so much when the plane spooled up. I took notice of how well the prop performed on the plane too. I bought two Xoars the other week , an 18x8 and a 19x8, and those were nice props. I flew the 18x8 today and was overall impressed with spool up, slow down and general speed.

I was overall impressed with the quality of these last two Xoars. I have some that are not so good. I suppose it is all about quality wood to turn out a good prop. I did fly a Xoar on my big revolver last year, but went back to the APC pattern prop as it was much smoother on the plane and had better characteristics overall. I did not feel the Xoar I used on my Revolver was as good as the two I recently purchased. I do have my Revolver powered by a 91FX and that could make a big difference than using a wood prop on a gasser.

[8D]

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I have been thinking about putting the DLE 20 on the Revolver. I have three larger gas planes and since I am flying gas much more I am not sure I will change just yet. I have a 50cc, 40cc, and a 30cc and that is a great combination of gas planes. I bought a GoldWing Extra 30cc the other day and that will give me two 30cc planes in the pack. Although a 20cc would round the fleet out rather well, I am still fence sitting.

I, like you, also have the 91FX on the Revolver and she is a champ! Plenty of power, fantastic vertical, and smooth as a whistle. The only downfall with that engine is that she will drain some glow fuel! I cannot imagine if I really put the "petal to the metal" so to speak. I do fly her with plenty of vigor, but I don't fly wide open all the time. It will suck a gallon down very quickly.

Performance is not my motivator to go with a 20cc on the Rev, but cost. Have to dish out the cost of the engine, but once you recoup that you are good to go. However the cost of a DLE 20 will buy many gallons of glow fuel

wjcalhoun

Eldad:
Having flown the R70 with both big glow (OS 1.20AX) and gas (DLE20) i think you will be happier with the DLE20. As microdon states, there IS a gas learning curve, but as you move to bigger planes, you will have to do that learning anyway. Gas is cheaper fuel, an ounce lasts longer, and at the end of the day you don't have to clean off the castor/synthetic oil that the glow engine spits all over your plane.

I get the smell factor of glow (nitromethane, actually; it DOES smell great), but the reliability, economy, and power of gasoline make this an easy choice, at least for me.

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

Id say matching the prop to the motor is the best idea. Lighter is quicker to spool up and idle down. Objects in motion want to stay in motion, so the heavier will "hold" the speed better i suppose.

I still give my vote to the prop that will not transfer a strike and will just break apart. And just think the appearance is a huge plus. But that's just me.

I have not run a wood prop on a nitro motor, just on my DLE 20. Now on that subject, I dont like nitro, and this new extra 300 with the OS 46 reminds me why.

My gasser is so much easier to do everything with once its all set up. Its easier to start, easier to kill, runs smoother, uses less fuel, and uses cheaper fuel. The only downside is that gasoline stinks. Oh, and they sound cooler. Since Ive put my DLE into the dirt hard twice now, I have come to realize that the internal parts are cheaper too. easy to rebuild.....

Any "old timer" who says that there is no need for gassers because glow engines are tried and true and so simple has not given gas a try. A REAL try. I just had this debate the other day with a club member. He doesnt have any gas planes. Nitro motors are simple, but they need constant attention and tuning. Once the gas engine is set up, its pretty hands off unless there are some changes in altitude, weather (pretty substantial changes) prop size and pitch etc...

I have only run this extra with the OS engine twice, and im already thinking about trying out one of those JBA 15cc engines in it. I just dont have the money....

microdon2

My Feedback: (47)

Luchnia -

"Performance is not my motivator to go with a 20cc on the Rev, but cost. Have to dish out the cost of the engine, but once you recoup that you are good to go. However the cost of a DLE 20 will buy many gallons of glow fuel"

Or you COULD look at it as "after saving a few gallons of glow fuel I'll easily recoup my DLE 20 engine cost..."

And - to offset the cost of a new DLE you can always sell that 91FX here on RCU - seems to be a pretty active market. I've bought lots of used engines here. The nitro engines really seem to hold their value, too.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I left those reasons out on purpose and try not to remind myself I guess it is mostly my excuse not to do the little work required which is less than a rainy day's project I am pretty sure it will happen at some point as it is really not all that difficult to change it out and I already have everything but the engine.

Someone made some statements about the weight, however if I am not mistaken there is very little difference between the DLE 20cc and 91FX in weight. I did the comparisons some time back and it was not much difference at all. I think moving the battery back a little to offset the ignition would take care of it.

capt1597

happy easter, when comparing say an os95ax and a dle20 it is fair to say that purchase cost, maintainence, tuning, shaking, sound, smell, that really all of these considerations are a wash. both are fine ,great, good to go. however, the weight of these engines and the cost of the fuel are the differences that are not tha same. that's all. the fuel to gas cost ratio is 5 to 1 and the weight ratio installed is 3 to 2, this IS a big difference on both issues. so, it comes down to weight vs cost. this all reminds me women. in order to have the one that weighs less it will cost you alot more cash and more clean up time. having said all this it is well proven on this thread that both options are great and get the job done. happy flying , capt

mach2

My Feedback: (5)

honestly, if i have a plan to ever build a plane that is smaller than what a 15 - 20cc gas motor can go in, I really think im going to try electric power.

I flew the 55" Extra today with the OS 46 and its just kinda pathetic. I am spoiled with the DLE20 and the Rev, but its just kinda like Im doing all I can to keep the plane in the air. Its just so under powered....

It also seemed tail heavy. The plane originally had a OS 61 in it. Im gonna move the battery forward and give it another shot tomorrow and see if its any better behaved.

Oh! It also would NOT slow down on approach no matter how far back i pull the power and throttle trim back. I think the 11x7 may be too much pitch. I think I'll throw that 11x4 apc on it any see how that flies it.

Does anyone know if the little revolver flies as well as the big one? I love how the Rev literally flies like its on rails. Even at slow speeds.....What an awesome plane the Revolver is!!!!!! I may sell this 300 and have a pair of Revs.... I bet the 59" Revolver would be sweet with the JBA 15cc.

Jeremy