Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
05-07-2012, 11:25 AM
#26
RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
If you want to build and fly the Cub thats fine, just be advised, it isn't representative of the general powered sports aircraft.
It prefers to fly on the wing (even my clipped wing) infact, the more power you add the worse it gets.
I stepped mine down from a .72 four stroke to a .46 two stroke (still to much) and ended with a .41 four stroke. Certainly the best IMO.
Just as a side track:
If you've been flying gliders/SIMs and and trainer, maybe you should try a good sports low wing. A Goldberg Tiger 60 (if they're still available) or it's smaller 40 sized brother. They fly fast or slow, steady or aerobatics, still or windy, new beginner or expert, whatever... they do it SUPERBLY!
What ever you do... enjoy.
05-08-2012, 07:23 AM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
ORIGINAL: 142088
Gentlemen,
Come on now,
I hold this to be true: I may not agree with any opinion but I will fight to the death to defend your right to hold your opinion even if I don't agree with that opinion.
The last thing I expected when I posed this original question was any point of contention. No need for that.
I do favor a sport 2 cycle engine because I have some limited experience with those.
Gentlemen,
Come on now,
I hold this to be true: I may not agree with any opinion but I will fight to the death to defend your right to hold your opinion even if I don't agree with that opinion.
The last thing I expected when I posed this original question was any point of contention. No need for that.
I do favor a sport 2 cycle engine because I have some limited experience with those.
It's just my opinion that the current crop of engines, 4-stroke or 2-stroke are very easy to operate. Since you have experience with twin needle carbs, you'll have no problem; they all work about the same. My suggestion of the Magnum .70 for your Cub stemmed from your agreement that the 4-stroke would make a preferable sound for that model. Also, I have experience with the Magnum engines and regard them as very user-friendly. Then there was your budget constraint and a sale at Hobby People. Too bad that you were unable to take advantage of it.
FWIW, I own engines from OS, Magnum, Saito, YS, K&B, Fox, etc. They all have their good and bad points. I don't know any YS user who hasn't had a bath in glow fuel at least once!
I also fly electrics, including an electric-assist glider with a folding prop. Using electric-assist is a matter of convenience in launching the glider. I don't like messing with a high-start. I can just toss the glider, gain some altitude, shut off the motor and go thermal hunting. Our club welcomes any AMA member regardless of what they fly.I tried looking for glider-specific flyers around Indy through a Google search. Saw your RCU post. Have you tried RC Groups for your search? Possibly your AMA district website?
CR
05-08-2012, 08:35 AM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
Look what I found: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mistclub/ Glider guiders in Indy.
CR
Edit: MY mistake these guys are in Muncie. Sorry.
CR
Edit: MY mistake these guys are in Muncie. Sorry.
05-12-2012, 11:25 AM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
Solution,
I am going to order Mr.C Lee's new hand assembled .61 presently.
And the OS engine later this season and compare them myself.
142088
I am going to order Mr.C Lee's new hand assembled .61 presently.
And the OS engine later this season and compare them myself.
142088
05-14-2012, 04:06 AM
#33
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner
Hey fourteentwentyeightyeight If this is important to you spending that thirty bucks on the modern engine is a better bet.
As much as I love the AX's there is one that I would avoid and that is the .46AX. This is not because its a bad engine its actually a fine engine however it does not have the new carb system that needs no remote needle valve (look at the picture) and it uses an entirely different midrange system. This I beleve is what makes the AX so much better than the previous FX series. The .46 being the first to hit the market it used the older conventional double needle type carb.
Throttling is much improved and I,ve never had a dead stick with an AX. I think I am up to eight now and mulling over ordering another pair for a new project and can,t decide yet between the .65 and the 75AX's.
One curious point is the .35AX is averaging about five to ten bucks cheaper than the .25AX 'Go Figure'.
Here is a vidio a couple years ago with my Senior Kaydet that I put together specifically for training my students and it has a little old .35AX and remember this is an eighty inch airplane and more bulky than your Cub. It might answer your power questions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ipvqIs8C8&feature=plcp
John
ORIGINAL: 142088
Parts availability is important also! very much so.
Parts availability is important also! very much so.
Hey fourteentwentyeightyeight If this is important to you spending that thirty bucks on the modern engine is a better bet.
As much as I love the AX's there is one that I would avoid and that is the .46AX. This is not because its a bad engine its actually a fine engine however it does not have the new carb system that needs no remote needle valve (look at the picture) and it uses an entirely different midrange system. This I beleve is what makes the AX so much better than the previous FX series. The .46 being the first to hit the market it used the older conventional double needle type carb.
Throttling is much improved and I,ve never had a dead stick with an AX. I think I am up to eight now and mulling over ordering another pair for a new project and can,t decide yet between the .65 and the 75AX's.
One curious point is the .35AX is averaging about five to ten bucks cheaper than the .25AX 'Go Figure'.
Here is a vidio a couple years ago with my Senior Kaydet that I put together specifically for training my students and it has a little old .35AX and remember this is an eighty inch airplane and more bulky than your Cub. It might answer your power questions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ipvqIs8C8&feature=plcp
John
My Mom and Dad gave me my first K&B engine, a Torp .19 C/L version, back in 1961 or so. I flew the dickens out of that engine. I've owned and flown K&B engines quite a few times since then.
I have one pattern trophy to my credit. A K&B .61 powered the model that earned that trophy. I probably have four or five .40 and .61 K&B engines currently, not to mention a few Sportsters of different sizes. I love each and every K&B engine that I have.
With that said, my Goldberg Anniversary Edition kit plans came with a K&B .61 illustrated on the plans. Enough said.
Ed Cregger
05-14-2012, 04:53 AM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
G'day
I have only ever seen one K&B engine and that was back about 1965. It had a green head and was, if I remember rightly, a stunt 35. So, I have no idea how a K&B 61 is going to go though I am sure it will pull the model around very well.
But, I have had two Goldberg Anniversary Cubs.
The first came to me part built and set up for an OS 70 four stroke so I found one and put that in it. The result was interesting. My friends described it as the "Spitfire Cub". It had two speeds, scale (at about 1/3 throttle) and "Spitfire" at anything more. It also was the first plane I had flown that absolutely needed the rudder to be used at lower speeds and it really needed it in all turns too.
I pulled the 70 out and put a 40 OS Surpass in. Now it just had "scale" and it was a bit underpowered for comfort.
So then an OS 52 Surpass went in and it was fine. I also tried a very old and tired Enya 46 and it flew it well too. These days it is still flying with another member of our club with a 48 Surpass which is also fine.
The other one I still have. It has always had a Saito 90 TS twin. The twin is about as powerful as a Saito 62 single and powers it well. And it sounds amazing.
As an aside, I also have a Saito 90T3 radial. On my normal 10%nitro fuel it is less powerful than my Saito 56 and drops cylinders. But on 20% it is about as good as the 56 and is very reliable. It is the only engine I don't run on 10%.
As I have already said, and as you probably know, Cubs do need use of the rudder to fly well. My current one has switchable aileron to rudder mixing and makes it very pleasant and easy to fly. Without this it tends to wander on landing and runs wide in turns while hanging its tail.
All the best and enjoy your Cub.
Mike in Oz
I have only ever seen one K&B engine and that was back about 1965. It had a green head and was, if I remember rightly, a stunt 35. So, I have no idea how a K&B 61 is going to go though I am sure it will pull the model around very well.
But, I have had two Goldberg Anniversary Cubs.
The first came to me part built and set up for an OS 70 four stroke so I found one and put that in it. The result was interesting. My friends described it as the "Spitfire Cub". It had two speeds, scale (at about 1/3 throttle) and "Spitfire" at anything more. It also was the first plane I had flown that absolutely needed the rudder to be used at lower speeds and it really needed it in all turns too.
I pulled the 70 out and put a 40 OS Surpass in. Now it just had "scale" and it was a bit underpowered for comfort.
So then an OS 52 Surpass went in and it was fine. I also tried a very old and tired Enya 46 and it flew it well too. These days it is still flying with another member of our club with a 48 Surpass which is also fine.
The other one I still have. It has always had a Saito 90 TS twin. The twin is about as powerful as a Saito 62 single and powers it well. And it sounds amazing.
As an aside, I also have a Saito 90T3 radial. On my normal 10%nitro fuel it is less powerful than my Saito 56 and drops cylinders. But on 20% it is about as good as the 56 and is very reliable. It is the only engine I don't run on 10%.
As I have already said, and as you probably know, Cubs do need use of the rudder to fly well. My current one has switchable aileron to rudder mixing and makes it very pleasant and easy to fly. Without this it tends to wander on landing and runs wide in turns while hanging its tail.
All the best and enjoy your Cub.
Mike in Oz
05-14-2012, 05:11 AM
#35
RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
Hey Ed good hearing from you agine, I have always enjoyed our conversations in the past both here and some other forums in the past.
Interestingly I have experianced a similar past and even enjoyed many of the same engines and the excellent service from them just as you including most of the K&B line. My first K&B of sorts was also a Torpedo, a Torp 09 that powered my first successful RC airplane in the late fifties however time has a way of moving on and if you ever actually operated and experianced any of the AX (except the .46 because its not the same carburation system) line then you too may realize not every thing from the past is always best for every new flyer.
Heck you might actually enjoy an AX
John
Interestingly I have experianced a similar past and even enjoyed many of the same engines and the excellent service from them just as you including most of the K&B line. My first K&B of sorts was also a Torpedo, a Torp 09 that powered my first successful RC airplane in the late fifties however time has a way of moving on and if you ever actually operated and experianced any of the AX (except the .46 because its not the same carburation system) line then you too may realize not every thing from the past is always best for every new flyer.
Heck you might actually enjoy an AX
John
05-14-2012, 12:04 PM
#36
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
ORIGINAL: JohnBuckner
Hey Ed good hearing from you agine, I have always enjoyed our conversations in the past both here and some other forums in the past.
Interestingly I have experianced a similar past and even enjoyed many of the same engines and the excellent service from them just as you including most of the K&B line. My first K&B of sorts was also a Torpedo, a Torp 09 that powered my first successful RC airplane in the late fifties however time has a way of moving on and if you ever actually operated and experianced any of the AX (except the .46 because its not the same carburation system) line then you too may realize not every thing from the past is always best for every new flyer.
Heck you might actually enjoy an AX
John
Hey Ed good hearing from you agine, I have always enjoyed our conversations in the past both here and some other forums in the past.
Interestingly I have experianced a similar past and even enjoyed many of the same engines and the excellent service from them just as you including most of the K&B line. My first K&B of sorts was also a Torpedo, a Torp 09 that powered my first successful RC airplane in the late fifties however time has a way of moving on and if you ever actually operated and experianced any of the AX (except the .46 because its not the same carburation system) line then you too may realize not every thing from the past is always best for every new flyer.
Heck you might actually enjoy an AX
John
Hi, John. It is good to see you in print once again as well.
I do own two OS .55 engines of recent manufacture. Are they AX engines? I would guess that they are.
Ed Cregger
05-14-2012, 08:09 PM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
One great thing about the K&B .61 is the chromed liner. Not only is it hard to wear, a new ring can can keep it going for a really long time. I have some over 30 years old that still serve me well. The Lee version is excellent!
As for a good Cub engine, I have a buddy that uses a K&B .65 with a BCM muffler. It is extremely quiet. Most people think it has a four stroke in it while its flying. It looks like a match made in heaven. You might want to consider one for your Cub.
Cody
As for a good Cub engine, I have a buddy that uses a K&B .65 with a BCM muffler. It is extremely quiet. Most people think it has a four stroke in it while its flying. It looks like a match made in heaven. You might want to consider one for your Cub.
Cody
05-15-2012, 03:17 AM
#38
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
ORIGINAL: codycarlisle25
One great thing about the K&B .61 is the chromed liner. Not only is it hard to wear, a new ring can can keep it going for a really long time. I have some over 30 years old that still serve me well. The Lee version is excellent!
As for a good Cub engine, I have a buddy that uses a K&B .65 with a BCM muffler. It is extremely quiet. Most people think it has a four stroke in it while its flying. It looks like a match made in heaven. You might want to consider one for your Cub.
Cody
One great thing about the K&B .61 is the chromed liner. Not only is it hard to wear, a new ring can can keep it going for a really long time. I have some over 30 years old that still serve me well. The Lee version is excellent!
As for a good Cub engine, I have a buddy that uses a K&B .65 with a BCM muffler. It is extremely quiet. Most people think it has a four stroke in it while its flying. It looks like a match made in heaven. You might want to consider one for your Cub.
Cody
To the best of my knowledge, the only K&B .61 with a chromed liner would be the Twister. The other editions have a steel cylinder with a ringed piston. However, the steel cylinder equipped engines meet all of your criteria very well.
I agree with you in saying that the K&B .61 makes an excellent powerplant for the Goldberg and several other similar sized Cubs. My Cub was powered by an Enya 80-4C. Can you say, "Climbing Knife-Edge"? Yes, it had much more than scale power, but that is what the throttle is for, isn't it? I would think that the Enya 80-4C and the K&B .61 ringer would be a pretty good match in power output.
After flying a friend's Goldberg Cub that was powered by a K&B .65 Sportster, and liking the performance, I picked up a used .65 when I had the opportunity. It is true that the K&B Sportster .65 two-stroke is set up to serve as the poor modeler's four-stroke in that once broken-in, this engine loves to lug large props and to be quiet while doing it.
Ed Cregger
05-15-2012, 05:09 AM
#39
RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
The K&B 61#6550 (ringed version) does have a chromed sleeve. I just learned this recently. Here is a link to the parts sheet from Mecoa:
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/61/61-parts.htm
The Sportster 65 makes a fantastic poor mans 4-stroke. I use one in a .40 sized Sukhoi and love it! It likes big props and is very quiet. It would be great in a J-3.
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/61/61-parts.htm
The Sportster 65 makes a fantastic poor mans 4-stroke. I use one in a .40 sized Sukhoi and love it! It likes big props and is very quiet. It would be great in a J-3.
05-16-2012, 04:18 AM
#43
RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
I just learned this a few months ago myself ( when I picked up the sleeve). All these years of using them, I had no idea. I do think it is a really good feature. I have become a bigger fan of ringed engines as I keep my old ones running. Another great feature is that many of the internals from the Twister will interchange. The crankshaft, and rod from the Twister will take higher rpm's if you take your engine to that environment.
05-16-2012, 04:23 AM
#44
RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
That looks likesteel sleeve, not chromed. The only chromed sleeves I have seen for ringed engines are brass. Could they mean chrome alloy?
05-16-2012, 03:22 PM
#45
RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
The inside has chrome and looks good quality wise. I tried to take a more detailed photo, but I don't get anymore detail to help just lots of bad pics. Anymore info than that will have to come from someone in the know or Mecoa, as I am not sure of the process/ type used.
05-16-2012, 08:31 PM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
Jim, if you get a 2 stroke that is non-ringed definitely do not go with the slobbering rich break in like a ringed engine. That will wear it out almost immediately. Instead, take it up to full throttle and go with a slightly rich "but 2-cycling" setting..... no four cycling. The tapered bore engines need to get up to full operating temp. fast for the break in because they have zero clearance at TDC.
Thanks,
Ernie Misner
Thanks,
Ernie Misner
11-01-2012, 03:18 AM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
Thanks,
I really need all the advise I can find. To ruin a $160 engine on breakin would ruin the whole experience.
I bought a new OS 55 AX.
I am still going to buy Mr. Lee's 61 for an "airknocker" project or a clip wing Cub.
Sheesh I guess I got lucky breaking in a .15 in a 'plane I got from my Pop's collection after he passed.
I advised him wrong, lucky we ran the thing up to rpm when it held 2 cycle clean (when he was here).
God takes care of the "kids" sometimes.
The engines today seem to make more power than back in "the day". Power per cc.
But they cost so much more?! And fuel is rediculous too.
Thanks to y'all for setting me right BEFOREI ruin a motor as doing that would chase me back to Sailplanes permanently.
Jim (142088)
(not made of money a member of the ignored 99%)
I really need all the advise I can find. To ruin a $160 engine on breakin would ruin the whole experience.
I bought a new OS 55 AX.
I am still going to buy Mr. Lee's 61 for an "airknocker" project or a clip wing Cub.
Sheesh I guess I got lucky breaking in a .15 in a 'plane I got from my Pop's collection after he passed.
I advised him wrong, lucky we ran the thing up to rpm when it held 2 cycle clean (when he was here).
God takes care of the "kids" sometimes.
The engines today seem to make more power than back in "the day". Power per cc.
But they cost so much more?! And fuel is rediculous too.
Thanks to y'all for setting me right BEFOREI ruin a motor as doing that would chase me back to Sailplanes permanently.
Jim (142088)
(not made of money a member of the ignored 99%)
11-17-2012, 04:23 AM
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RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
Thanks to all,
Compliments to the community in general. You folks help returnees much more than some think.
I know that I don't know it all already. Things are much changed aside from the ARFs etc.
Radios Engines Materials.... bunch to catch up on.
Yes I still am going to get Mr. Lee's engine too.
I did find a place to fly, both sailplanes a the kindness of a farmer I knew from youth, and I found a club almost in Indpls I intend to join. AMA dues first, next month I'll go to the meeting and pony up the money. Aside from a trip to Muncie now and then to fly..
Oh and if John Force saw Elvis at IndyRaceway Park Nationals in 1990 at 1000 feet.
I didn't see him but I bet John did!
Again
Thanks to all
142088
Compliments to the community in general. You folks help returnees much more than some think.
I know that I don't know it all already. Things are much changed aside from the ARFs etc.
Radios Engines Materials.... bunch to catch up on.
Yes I still am going to get Mr. Lee's engine too.
I did find a place to fly, both sailplanes a the kindness of a farmer I knew from youth, and I found a club almost in Indpls I intend to join. AMA dues first, next month I'll go to the meeting and pony up the money. Aside from a trip to Muncie now and then to fly..
Oh and if John Force saw Elvis at IndyRaceway Park Nationals in 1990 at 1000 feet.
I didn't see him but I bet John did!
Again
Thanks to all
142088
11-17-2012, 06:05 AM
#50
RE: Goldberg Cub and Mr. Lee's K & B 61?
ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner
Jim, if you get a 2 stroke that is non-ringed definitely do not go with the slobbering rich break in like a ringed engine. That will wear it out almost immediately. Instead, take it up to full throttle and go with a slightly rich ''but 2-cycling'' setting..... no four cycling. The tapered bore engines need to get up to full operating temp. fast for the break in because they have zero clearance at TDC.
Thanks,
Ernie Misner
Jim, if you get a 2 stroke that is non-ringed definitely do not go with the slobbering rich break in like a ringed engine. That will wear it out almost immediately. Instead, take it up to full throttle and go with a slightly rich ''but 2-cycling'' setting..... no four cycling. The tapered bore engines need to get up to full operating temp. fast for the break in because they have zero clearance at TDC.
Thanks,
Ernie Misner
If I were running a Jett engine though, I'd be running it fast and get it hot.
