Glen B

I need a history lesson.

Can anyone post the units that used the M26 Pershing in the Krean War?

B.A.D.A.S.S.Force

Wikipedia's M26 Pershing page has a specific Korean War section listing the units that had Pershings.

Wikipedia M26 Pershing (click here)

rat now

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You want to step up to the mike Bill?

Glen B

Thanks, this is what I took from that source;


70th Tank Battalion atFort KnoxKentucky had pulled World War II memorial M26s off of pedestals and reconditioned them for use, but had to fill out two companies with M4A3s

72nd Tank Battalion were fully equipped with M26s

89th Medium Tank Battalion was constituted in Japan with three companies of reconditioned M4A3s and one of M26s from various bases in the Pacific;

1st Marine Division

Glen B

Deleted double post

pattoncommander

1 & 2nd Marine Divisions, Army 7th and 24th Inf Divisions. (The only units I had contact with). Marines brought in the first operational Pershings....When the NKPA attacked, all the Army had was M-24s and M-4A3E8 Shermans. The 5 semi refurbished M-26s rushed from Tokyo Ord Depot all were disabled or destroyed before they got into serious action. As of Feb/April 1950, M-46 Pattons were issued and used in conjunction with Pershings until all units had Pattons..most M-26s converted at Tokyo Ord Depot.. Not sure if 25th Div in extreme north had Pershings, but may have. Many Pershings were converted to M-45s and used as Inf support/Assault Tanks into the mid 1950s. M-46s you see with the stowage rack on the TC side of the turret were generally converted Pershings, as that stowage rack was deleted from M-46 design shortly after approved for issue.

Glen; 72d and 73th Tank Bns were 7th Inf Div units.,

Panther F

Not always the most accurate word on the Pershing or the Korean War. Even [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Pershing]Wikipedia[/link] is going to give you more accurate details than one source. Just use Google next time!


Korean War

"Pershing and Sherman tanks of the 73rd Heavy Tank Battalion at the Pusan Docks, Korea.
Captured Pershing on display at a North Korean museum in Pyongyang.The M26 saw service in the Korean War. When the war began in June 1950, the four American infantry divisions on occupation duty in Japan had no medium tanks at all, having only one active tank company (equipped with M24 Chaffee light tanks) each. When these divisions were sent to Korea at the end of June 1950, they soon found that the 75mm gun on the M24 could not penetrate the armor of North Korean T-34 tanks, which had no difficulty penetrating the M24's thin armor. Three M26 Pershing tanks were found in poor condition in a Tokyo ordnance depot. They were hastily brought back into operation with missing fanbelts improvised. These three M26s were formed into a provisional tank platoon commanded by Lieutenant Samuel Fowler and sent to Korea in mid-July. When used to defend the town of Chinju, the tanks soon overheated when the substitute fan belts stretched and the cooling fans stopped working, and so the only three American medium tanks in Korea were lost.[52]

More medium tanks began arriving in Korea at the end of July 1950. Although no armored divisions were sent because the initial response from battlefield commanders was "Korea isn't good tank country", six army infantry divisions and one Marine division were deployed. Each Army infantry division should[clarification needed] have had one divisional tank battalion of 69 tanks, and each army infantry regiment should have had a company of 22 tanks;[53] the Marine division had a tank battalion of 70 gun tanks and nine combination flamethrower-howitzer tanks, and each Marine infantry regiment had an antitank platoon with five tanks each. While tables of organization and equipment mandated that all tank platoon vehicles should be M26 Pershings, with howitzer tanks in company headquarters and light tanks in reconnaissance units only, some units had a shortfall that had to be filled with other tanks. The 70th Tank Battalion at Fort Knox Kentucky had pulled World War II memorial M26s off of pedestals and reconditioned them for use, but had to fill out two companies with M4A3s; the 72nd Tank Battalion at Fort Lewis Washington and the 73rd Tank Battalion at Fort Benning Georgia were fully equipped with M26s; the 89th Medium Tank Battalion was constituted in Japan with three companies of reconditioned M4A3s and one of M26s from various bases in the Pacific; due to the shortage of M26s, most regimental tank companies had M4A3 Shermans instead. Two battalions detached from the 2nd Armored Division at Fort Hood Texas, the 6th Medium and 64th Heavy Tank Battalions, were fully equipped with M46 Patton tanks. The 1st Marine Division at Camp Pendleton California had all M4A3 howitzer tanks, which were replaced with M26s just days before boarding ships for Korea. A total of 309 M26 Pershings were rushed to Korea in 1950.[54]

A 1954 survey concluded that there were in all 119 tank vs. tank actions involving U.S. Army and Marine units during the Korean War, with 97 T-34-85 tanks knocked out and another 18 probable. The M4A3E8 was involved in 50% of the tank actions, the M26 in 32%, and the M46 in 10%.[55] The M26/M46 proved to be an overmatch for the T-34-85 as its 90 mm HVAP round could punch all the way through the T-34 from the front glacis armor to the back,[56] whereas the T-34-85 had difficulty penetrating the armor of the M26/46.[57] The M4A3E8, firing 76 mm HVAP rounds which were widely available during the Korean War (unlike World War II), was equal to the T-34-85 as both tanks could destroy each other at normal combat ranges.[57]

After November 1950, North Korean armor was rarely encountered. China entered the conflict in February 1951 with four regiments of tanks (a mix of mostly T-34-85 tanks, a few IS-2 tanks, and other AFVs). However, because these Chinese tanks were dispersed with the infantry, tank to tank battles with UN forces were uncommon.[58]

With the marked decrease in tank to tank actions, the automotive deficiencies of the M26 in the mountainous Korean terrain became more of a liability, and so all M26s were withdrawn from Korea during 1951 and replaced with M4A3 Shermans and M46 Pattons.[59] The M45 howitzer tank variant was only used by the assault gun platoon of the 6th Medium Tank Battalion, and these six vehicles were withdrawn by January 1951."










~ Jeff

Glen B

Actually, I have been.

I thought I would see if anyone here had any additional info, a mistake on my part, I guess.

pattoncommander

Jeff, correct use more than one source. But then again, many written reports are also wrong. NO JS-IIs were used in Korea. Intel reported a company of them across the Yalu and others in Manchuria, however the only Soviet tanks encountered in Korea were T-34/85s and SU-57s.

Also on the M-45....7th ID, 31st Infantry Div. had an platoon of four of them in 1956. They were ragged, poor condition and in desperate need of parts which were not available and they were finally turned in for disposal in mid 1956. In spite of "official Army Records "stating that they were not on property books at that time....I drove one of the derelicts for almost a mile, as they were just a mile up the road from where we were stationed....so I know that they were there. Possibly the Army had written them off, but they were still (sort of) in use.

I can only attest to the units with which I had served or had some contact and have posted info from my own personal experience. Books can also be misleading.

j z

Glen B. You made no mistake. I haven't been on these forums in a while . Every time I check in it seems a disrespectful member is heckling Bill. Usually the same one. Jeff, I don't know what the man ever did to you, but you offend me. Your lack of respect for a man ,who should be treated respectfully because of his age alone, sickens me. Let's hear what you've done in your life time. What unique experiences you've had. Your combat stories . You probably don't have any. How much alcohol do you have to consume to be as beligerant as you can be. You sir are a very small person. Many members on this forum consider Bill an expert. I'm sure many more consider you a jerk. Regards, JZ

mustclime

glen, i found this thread very usful....

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5596905/tm.htm

I picked up this book on the topic as well........

http://www.amazon.com/T-34-85-M26-Pe.../dp/1846039908

and this.......

http://www.amazon.com/M26-Pershing-T...7630420&sr=1-5

hope that helps.

Glen B

Thanks, I was checking out "T-34-85 vs M26 Pershing: Korea 1950 (Duel)", maybe I'll pick up a copy.

I am looking for a project to start next fall (not that I am wishing away the summer) and a Korean War M26 is in the potential list.

mustclime

From what I have been able to gather, both the tamiya and hl m26's are korean models. Since the wife has been introducing me as "the nazi tanker" I am going to do a couple US tanks next . I think my next build will be a tamiya m26 in 1945 trim, then I am thinking about a t32 using a couple hl snow kitties as a base.

BIGMIG

I allways wonder where some of the dates come from on the posts here about the Korean War...( Korean War...25 June 1950 to 27 July 1953 )

Big difference in being in Korea.......1950 to 1953.........than being there from 1953 to date....?

I wasen't there.........but i sure as hell can read..........I think.

Or is all the history about this war wrong......?

BIGMIG

P.S. I'm 69 years old and was in Grade school when this war was going on.Remember one or two class mates who had family members killed there and our teacher trying to explain to us kids what happened.

I was ( 2 years old ) at the end of WWII.....................If you fought in the final days of WWII and was just 17 years old.......you would now be at a minimum of 74 years old...........

herrmill

Bravo, man! Well done!! Could not have said it any better.

rcsws

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The end date is correct- Offical cease fire, per the written orders I have in my possesion was to start on 27 2200 Jul 53. I have the order as well as the document that was to be signed by everyone in my dad's command. It was signed and never turned in to his commander.

Panther F

Oh, wow, big brave man.

You just drop by to do the same, huh? Insulting and heckling a member for your pleasure? You don't contribute anything here, heck you haven't even been around since 11/24/2011.

And herrmill. I had more respect for you.

I wasn't even replying to Glen or to Bill. It was to rat now. I was just showing how we don't need to "lean" on one individual that there is more information to be had than one mans opinion, which I have had the experience in correcting many times, so I guess living it doesn't always mean knowing it.

So blow it out of your rear, DUDE! I'd rather be a jerk than an ass like ... you.









~ Jeff

rat now

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Hey just wait a minute here....I was not in ANY WAY disrespecting Bill!!! No way! I knew he knew more about this question than probably anyone on here so I suggested he step up and answer the mans question. I truly repect Bill and any and ALL vets. Im pushing 60 myself, my dad was at Omaha Beach at Normandy, my brother is a Viet Nam Vet as well. My appologez if it was taken the wrong way.

j z

Like I said little man. You are a JERK. Probably a frustrated half drunk jerk. Nobody here has a use for you. All you contribute is rudeness and sarcasm. You are THE PRIMARY reason I don't post here any more. It seems to me , by the frequency of your posts, that the people here on this forum might be the only friends you have. So try being a little nicer . respect is a reciprocating sort of thing. Give some, get some. What goes around comes around. You know what I mean, Jerky ?

Panther F

Again, another misunderstanding. I was only pointing out that Bill is not the only source of information, was never implying you were doing anything wrong.

Geeez ... you guys look directly at the eclipse the other day or what?

Oh and j z, calling people names just shows your maturity level. That's all you have to contribute. Just because you don't like it you're going to throw a fit? Have a great day little man!









~ Jeff

rat now

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OK Panther F, just wanted to clarify, wasnt real sure at first where that was going I do wear glasses though...

pattoncommander

BigMig, dates of confrontation are correct....however, the cease fire didn't mean anything. Someone forgot to tell the NKPA and the Chinese that it was over, and shooting continued across the border and still continues today. I was living in an M-46 at -35 at a highly illegal age (I'm only 75) ....but back then, nobody seemed to care. I was there also in 1956-58 and pumped a round of 90mm over the 38th parallell to shut up a 12.7 mg chewing up my canvas and oil cans in early 1957. Korean border is not a nice place....even today. Any date from 1950 to present is combat duty on the border, as you WILL be shot at.

I try to answer questions about tanks with which I am familiar and based on personal experience, not from books. Some answers may not apply to all tanks of the same classification as things differ with various units. The issue with the M-45 has me very perplexed and I am am attempting to learn how and why the 7th ID had them when various publications state only one unit had them, and I know there were others. My replies regarding the Pershing was based on units with which I had contact and I knew the tanks they had. The Marines saved our axes when they came in with the Pershings.. The M-24s and Easy 8 Shermans couldn't stop the T-34/85. The best was was with F-86 Sabers. I did make one typo on the Pershings sent from Japan....it is correct that 3 were sent, not 5, and my M-46A1 was converted from an M-26 at TOD and as I told at the time, some were retrofitted as M-45s. 185 M-45s were made in the USA , so where are they and where did they go? .

Jeff, regardless of what/how you meant the post, that animated figure and implication in the initial sentence said it all.

Captain Action

Thanks Pattoncommander for you information and good feed back on this topic. Vary interesting stuff. A+

Panther F = D- []

Pah co chu puk

That's cool.

pattoncommanderis a window to a world I hope to never experience first hand, a world of suffering and fear, a world of sadness and loss. I value his experience more than dry satistics, more than tables of numbers simply because he was there... he can tell me what the dust smelled like that day.

Not to pick on you Jeff, you seem to know your stuff, but you do come on strong sometimes.

tapkoote

being new around this forum, didn't know much background
I want to thank you for your service, pattoncomander, I was 7 yrs old in 1957 and starting 1st grade.
Mine was 69-70, we both know not to pay too much attention to the cheap seats.
Warlord 772