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New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

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New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

Old 06-07-2012, 05:48 PM
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Rustproofcorn
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Default New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

You can see my original post from a few days ago when i bought a new 450 3d. I have had it since monday and love this dang thing it flys good for a newb like me. until...





this was going to be my 5th flight and when i started lifting off the ground the bird started smoking pretty bad. the battery was the stock battery and i could tell when each cell on the battery would ignite because a big cloud of smoke would follow. i have many more photos of the carnage afterwards
where the canopy is just a melted ball and the whole front of the heli is basically melted. i called E-flight and they had me send pictures and said they are sending me a replacement asap. they are not even going to require me to send in this one which i thought was quite nice. anyways this was my day how was yours. lol
Old 06-08-2012, 05:58 AM
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Doug47
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

That's typical service from them, they're pretty darn good.
You'd said it was your 5th flight. Was that all on one battery, or were you charging it between flights or what ? How long were your flights roughly ?
Glad you took pictures ! Doug
Old 06-08-2012, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

It was my 5th full battery pack. i bought it monday and i flew 2 packs then 1 pack tuesday and 1 pack wednesday. then on thursday i made it 6 foot off the ground when the battery bursted and the smoke started coming. i would say each flight was 15 minutes or so. yeah i didnt get all the pictures i should have. there were some pretty big poofs of smoke that i would have liked to capture. i just got confirmation last night the the new 450 3d is on the way. not sure what they are sending me they said there were 3 options they were toying with.

1 BNF without battery and then send battery seperate
2 BNF with battery enclosed
3 RTF with everything i recieved on my first one

any way they go i will be happy. if i do get another ready to fly i will prolly try and sell the 2 Dx6is and get one dx7..

i have stripped the heli at this point kept anything of value. one thing i wonder is has this happend to anyone else? i seriously wonder if the battery was touching the motor inflight and the friction started the blaze? any ideas on this?
Old 06-08-2012, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

The battery can absolutely touch the motor the way that's set-up, so just keep an eye on that on the next one.
Old 06-08-2012, 09:44 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

by the looks of the motor you had lipo to close to it,  i caught 1 on my blade 400 luckily it only ruined 1 cell but it didnt go up. did you have a velcro strap around batt the will move around a bit if you dont use. sorry about your luck dude.
Old 06-08-2012, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!


ORIGINAL: madmorgan

by the looks of the motor you had lipo to close to it, i caught 1 on my blade 400 luckily it only ruined 1 cell but it didnt go up. did you have a velcro strap around batt the will move around a bit if you dont use. sorry about your luck dude.
Yeah the velcro strap was in place. i am not positive if the lipo touched the battery or not i was just wondering if this could happend. not sure how to make sure the battery doesnt touch the motor without taping instead of the velcro cause even though i have it velcroed it can still slip i suppose. E-flight didnt even blink an eye about replacing this. i am telling you they sure made me a long term supporter of E-flight.
Old 06-08-2012, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

You should always put the double stick velcro directly to your battery tray and battery. Then use the velcro strap to make sure it doesnt vibrate lose. If you only used the strap and no velcro directly between the battery tray and battery...this is where you messed up first.



Your second mistake was running the heli for 15 minute flights. While I dont own the Blade 450...I do have a clone TREX 450 and the most i fly a pack is 6-7 minutes and that brings the voltage down to storage level (appox 3.7-3.8 volts per cell). While you can take them down to 3.3 volts per cell...its not a good idea.

So...either the battery vibrated around and came in contact with your motor...causing it to fail. OR, you depleted the battery too low and over several cycles on the charger....it damaged it, resulting in a catostrophic failure of the battery.

This can and WILL eventually happen when you deplete a lipo too low. You should NEVER take more than 20% of your battery capacity. So a fully charged lipo will be 4.20 volts per cell. When you deplete 20% of that...you would have around 3.8 volts per cell.

Using the above method will make your batteries last the longest and keep you and your model the safest.

Blade definitely is a good company based on them giving you a replacement with pretty much no questions asked. Because I feel that it was more user error than faulty product that caused your issue.

Please dont think i am throwing you under the bus with this post. Its just it sounds like you were uneducated about the way to mount your battery and charge/care for them. So now you know and you should have nothing but good results from this point forward.

goodluck.
Old 06-08-2012, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!



even if what your saying is what i SHOULD do i would come back with this information should be in the manual which in turn wouldnt be user error but infact an error on E-flights end. i highly doubt after 4 flights i damaged the battery in such a way that made it fail as you say. also i didnt fly the helicopter for 15 minutes strait but in reality there were ajustments i was making with trim and such. i never ran the battery completly out i have mine set up for 6minutes actuall flight time so that i dont over discharge which is in the manual which i read. anyhow i did feel thrown under the bus a little but thats ok if that is your way of telling people what you think. i will look at getting some velcro for my packs.

Old 06-08-2012, 12:11 PM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

my stock eflight batt i got in the b400 got 1 use and 1 of the cells was no good( wouldnt charge back up) as they use a circuit board on their lipo's , it might be because they use a cheap charger and want to make sure the cells dont go above 4.2 volts i dont know. all i know is a chip on the battery board went bad, it is possible something happened on your batt but there is evidence of scraping on that motor. hope they dont inspect the motor and put 2 and 2 together.
Old 06-08-2012, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

they have shipped the new one already. they are not requiring me to send this one to them.
Old 06-09-2012, 09:52 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

wow you got free crash parts huh must be nice lol just remember it worked once  keep in mind to leave about 3 to 5 mm clearance between the lipo and motor as i do not think that will happen (horizon sending you a whole replacement bird) ever again.
Old 06-09-2012, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!


ORIGINAL: madmorgan

wow you got free crash parts huh must be nice lol just remember it worked once keep in mind to leave about 3 to 5 mm clearance between the lipo and motor as i do not think that will happen (horizon sending you a whole replacement bird) ever again.

i didnt crash really just burnt up. i have salvaged all the good parts. to make another working heli i would need a frame, 1 linkage, and 1 servo then i could have 2 450 3d helis. i actually told Eflite that i thought i could get by with just these parts and they said no they will send me a new heli. they ended up sending me a BNF and lipo so i didnt end up with 2 dx6i's which was fair i thought. anyhow both items are due to be here on the 13th and i guess i will have to leard how to bind a tx which i have never done. what do you guys think would it be worth building another 450 3d or just have the spare parts? also if i were a guessing man with how Eflight was about sending this new one out i think even if somthing happend to the new one they would still work with me. right now i am still unsure if it was a battery fail or just the battery touching the motor. they only thing that makes me think the battery wasnt touching the motor is how fast it started on fire. i would have thought it would take a minute of flying not 5 seconds.
Old 06-09-2012, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!


ORIGINAL: Rustproofcorn



even if what your saying is what i SHOULD do i would come back with this information should be in the manual which in turn wouldnt be user error but infact an error on E-flights end. i highly doubt after 4 flights i damaged the battery in such a way that made it fail as you say. also i didnt fly the helicopter for 15 minutes strait but in reality there were ajustments i was making with trim and such. i never ran the battery completly out i have mine set up for 6minutes actuall flight time so that i dont over discharge which is in the manual which i read. anyhow i did feel thrown under the bus a little but thats ok if that is your way of telling people what you think. i will look at getting some velcro for my packs.

Sorry you took offense to my post...but that is why Iput emphasis on the "Please dont thinkI am trying to throw you under the bus" part of my post.

Its not what you should be doing because I say it...its what you should be doing because that is the standard procedure for ANYCPheli of just about any size from 250 and up. I agree with you that it probably should point out in the manual to do this...I cant say either way because I dont own one of the Blade 450's or know anyone that does at the moment. But there really is no sense in shooting the messenger here. Im just trying to help.

Also, it doesnt matter about the flights or how manyof them...to damage a LIPObattery. IFyou run a LIPObattery too far below 20% discharge...you CANand sometimes WILLdamage the battery when recharging it. Most chargers wont even attempt to charge a LIPOchemistry if it is below2.x volts per cell...I know mine wont, dont ask me how I know. LOL

Isaid what Isaid about taking them too far to total discharge based on the minutes that YOUsaid in your post. I'll quote you...


ORIGINAL: Rustproofcorn

i would say each flight was 15 minutes or so.
You indeed say that the flights were 15 minutes each, or so? 15 minutes is WAYtoo much and I am surprised that the ESCwould allow the heli to rotate for that long without the Lo Voltage protectiion circuit kicking in. So maybe you are way off on your estimate or the LVC is turned off on the ESC. If the later is true, I recommend you find out how to enalbe it and set it to around 3.3 vollts per cell.

Again, I was just pointing out that by the information you provided about flight times....you would have taken too much out of your pack. It only takes 1 time to dodamage and you said that you did this 4 times. So, the probability is there to have a damaged LIPOthat could have caused a catostrophic failure like you described with your post and pictures.Usually a damaged LIPOwill "let go" during the charge cycle...but they have been known to burst in flight as well.

As long asyou take knowledge away from thisand learn from it, it doesnt matter.Justalways velcro your batteries to the tray and then strap forextra safety, and try and keepbattery maintenance as a top priority by not overdischarging your packs.

A good practice for anynew heli you obtain is to charge a pack fully...then fly a 2 or 3 minute flight andstop. Recharge the battery and see how much you put back in...then youcan judge a safe flight time for that pack. Normally a 450 size heli is always good for 5-6 minutes on a 2200 3s pack, but dont take only my word for it.

Its always hard to tell how someone is sounding on the internet. I sometimes read posts and cant tell the other persons intention. So again Im sorry if Ioffended you. I wasnt trying to point and laugh...just simply trying to make you understand that the cause of this was the users lack of knowing what to do which caused a problem. And you arent alone...I have done similar by letting ESC motor leads get too close to a motor before and ripping one completely out!

In the end...its very positive testimony of Blade's customer service if they are giving you a replacement. Thats a lot of money to be out of if they had not. Good for you, and Blade! I like them even more as a company now that Ihear your story!



Old 06-09-2012, 12:43 PM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

like i tried to say before and i will say it again i flew for 6minutes actuall flight time. i will probably use the velcro tip. however i find you rather annoying.
Old 06-09-2012, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

I would check your low voltage cutoff and make sure your not running battery to low, mine shuts down at 8 minute I think I only fly mine 6 minute to be safe lol. Hey glad to here your getting a new blade God is great and does miracles every day even in are rc hobbies hope you find out what happened so it don't happen again good luck
Old 06-10-2012, 04:56 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!



If it annoys you that I pointed out that your problem was YOU and not the heli...so be it.

I find people annoying when they dont take responsibility for thier own mistakes. Iguess we'er even then huh?

Old 06-10-2012, 06:11 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!


ORIGINAL: ATVAlliance



If it annoys you that I pointed out that your problem was YOU and not the heli...so be it.

I find people annoying when they dont take responsibility for thier own mistakes. Iguess we'er even then huh?

not at all. i am very good at taking responsability for my actions. your are still annoying however. that post solidifies my annoyment. also you have no idea if the battery touched the motor or if i damaged the battery depleting it to much or if it was just a faulty battery. and i think you refuse to actually read my posts before pointing fingers and then when i clarify the truth still escapes you.

anyhow whatever thanks for hijacking my post for this blablabla nonsense.
Old 06-10-2012, 06:42 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!


ORIGINAL: Rustproofcorn


ORIGINAL: ATVAlliance



If it annoys you that I pointed out that your problem was YOU and not the heli...so be it.

I find people annoying when they dont take responsibility for thier own mistakes. Iguess we'er even then huh?

not at all. i am very good at taking responsability for my actions. your are still annoying however. that post solidifies my annoyment. also you have no idea if the battery touched the motor or if i damaged the battery depleting it to much or if it was just a faulty battery. and i think you refuse to actually read my posts before pointing fingers and then when i clarify the truth still escapes you.

anyhow whatever thanks for hijacking my post for this blablabla nonsense.

Really? That has yet to be proven (you taking responsibility of your own actions). Blade (e-FLight) certainly is though...but thats beside the point, Im not here to argue with you.

And you are exactly right...I dont know which of the 3 POSSIBLEthings could have caused it....lets throw in faulty ESC while we are at it...because that could be it too. My initial reply was to inform you where you went wrong by your own testimony of flight times and thinking that the battery moved and rubbed the motor. Imean you were talking about taping the battery on! That statement right there told me you are brand new and just didnt know what you were doing.

Your reaction to my posts only indicate that you are the type of person that cant take criticisim well or be told when they are wrong. Not a big surprise as Ive encounted the type many many times. I dont sweat it though.

Im sorry for hijacking your thread with the truth. I'll not waste any time with you and/or your issues again. Ifeel that unless you learn to take advice/criticism well...you wont last in this hobby long anyway as you will ultimately get stuck with paying for issues that are self inflicted.

Goodluck, you will need it. Im done.

Old 06-10-2012, 07:19 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!



Well i really have no reason to argue nor like to argue as well. i do appoligize for being a little thin skin. i kinda felt like you were raggin on a newb and then at the end said dont take offense or whatever and it kinda rubbed me the wrong way. since yesterday i have read numorous posts from you and find you do have alot of valuble information. i will take everything you said and try and implement this so i can possibly have a blade 450 3d for more than 4 flights.

where is the dang spell check.
Old 06-11-2012, 04:36 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!


ORIGINAL: Rustproofcorn



Well i really have no reason to argue nor like to argue as well. i do appoligize for being a little thin skin. i kinda felt like you were raggin on a newb and then at the end said dont take offense or whatever and it kinda rubbed me the wrong way. since yesterday i have read numorous posts from you and find you do have alot of valuble information. i will take everything you said and try and implement this so i can possibly have a blade 450 3d for more than 4 flights.

where is the dang spell check.
Takes a big person to appologize. The way this thread was heading, it was the last thing I expected...so I thank you and accept. AllI try to do here is offer helpful advice to possibly save someone some time here or there. I know first hand what its like going the heli experience totally alone with no mentor.

We all have to learn by mistakes...I like learning from others mistakes rather than my own(not that I dont make them all the time still)as its much cheaper that way.

I wish you luck with the replacement heli.
Old 06-11-2012, 08:38 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

So what do you think about buying the couple parts I need and building a second heli? Or would you just have the parts as spares?
Old 06-11-2012, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!



Id just keep it as a spare parts heli.  I had 2 450's at one time.  Only flew the one, so I sold the one I didnt fly.

You will need parts sooner or later.  Just tear it all down and start a parts bin.  Old tackle boxes make good heli parts storage.

Old 02-24-2013, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: New Blade 450 3D up in smoke!!!

I drilled new holes in my canopy about a 1/2" further back for the grommets. I know that there is hardly enough room for the battery when using the mount holes in the factory location.
Now i'm able to leave 1/4" or better between the battery and the motor. I also put velcro on each battery and on the frame as well as using the strap. Not much chance of the battery coming into contact with the motor on mine.
The other new 450 i haven't done yet, it is awaiting a flybarless head and Ikon FLB controller.
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