Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
06-19-2012, 07:38 PM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
You have come a long ways in two weeks! Lot of people watching this one, me included. If it is a practical, fun flyer..........might be my next project. Good Luck!
06-20-2012, 05:03 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Here are couple pictures of the blades and the mast. The blades are simple to make. You laminate a 1/8" piece of balsa to a Piece of 3" wide Sig airfoil balsa, you can see the lamination in the first pictures. Add a 5/32" wire to the leading edge and do a bit of shaping with a sanding bar. Spruce is added to the mast for strength I assume, plus it has a nice scale appearance when you give it an airfoil shape.
06-20-2012, 05:12 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
ORIGINAL: Steveibrc
You have come a long ways in two weeks! Lot of people watching this one, me included. If it is a practical, fun flyer..........might be my next project. Good Luck!
You have come a long ways in two weeks! Lot of people watching this one, me included. If it is a practical, fun flyer..........might be my next project. Good Luck!
If I do something extra I "keep it simple". Like the belly pan, I just glued it on and cut out slots for the wire. Doesn't look as good as another method, but it's a summer build. On the other hand, this aircraft makes a great scale subject. Maybe if I am successful flying it I will revisit it and do version with lots of scale detail.
I gotta say, I look at this thing in the bones with the mast on and these guys have done a great job designing and putting this kit together. Kudos Joe Cole and Dave Surace.
06-21-2012, 07:11 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
What a unique buildas well as a distinct challenge to fly. As always, I admire your buildingskills.I will certainly subcribe to this post.
By the way, I looked all over every photograph to see if I could find a picture of the completed Acroduster II and couldn't find it.
By the way, I looked all over every photograph to see if I could find a picture of the completed Acroduster II and couldn't find it.
06-21-2012, 09:32 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
The Acroduster is pretty much right where I left off on that thread. I just finished painting a P-26 built from Royal plans. I need to put on the nomenclature, clear coat it and assemble it. That should take a couple weeks to get done, then I'll be picking up the Acroduster in between work on the PCA-2. Once the PCA-2 is done it's Acroduster full time. It will be done this summer so keep an eye out for updates.
06-21-2012, 01:34 PM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Another video of this model flying Dave....this is when I was doing the four blade testing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLt7...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLt7...eature=related
06-21-2012, 06:15 PM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
ORIGINAL: jodini
Another video of this model flying Dave....this is when I was doing the four blade testing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLt7...eature=related
Another video of this model flying Dave....this is when I was doing the four blade testing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArLt7...eature=related
06-22-2012, 07:49 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Wrapped up a bunch of small things like the wing saddle, hinges and shaping hinge lines. So I'm finished building to the stage of putting fabric on the fuse. After I do that I'll go back and put the ply sheeting around the cockpit and upper fuse, then mount and shape the cowl. I started doping the frame getting it ready for fabric.
06-22-2012, 11:56 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
I switch it back to three because it's more controllable. Feels like a tail heavy plane with that fourth blade and any more nose weight would cause some nose overs on takeoffs, I believe.
06-24-2012, 05:52 PM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
A newbie's question for you guys......What would happen if you shortened up the blade legnth say in 1/2 inch increments on the 4 blade sys ? Or is the actual weight where the problem is (which really isn't logical)? 4blades and a prerotator while i am dreaming
?
?
06-24-2012, 06:44 PM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
ORIGINAL: Steveibrc
A newbie's question for you guys......What would happen if you shortened up the blade legnth say in 1/2 inch increments on the 4 blade sys ? Or is the actual weight where the problem is (which really isn't logical)? 4blades and a prerotator while i am dreaming[img][/img]?
A newbie's question for you guys......What would happen if you shortened up the blade legnth say in 1/2 inch increments on the 4 blade sys ? Or is the actual weight where the problem is (which really isn't logical)? 4blades and a prerotator while i am dreaming[img][/img]?
Koverall on the frame and 4 coats nitrate dope. Next up, ply sheeting over the cockpit/upper fuse.
06-26-2012, 12:43 PM
#39
RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Here's a couple of vintage photos of a Kellett at the old (long gone) Turner Field near Philadelphia, PA. The aircraft still exists, now owned by the Mid Atlantic Air Museum in Reading, PA.
06-26-2012, 02:24 PM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Nice pictures Michael, thanks for posting! Ply sheeting, cockpit cutout, balsa cowl, hatch, done. I did the sheeting in sections like the real aircraft and overlapped the edges. That made the compound curves much easier than doing it all on one big piece. Fiberglass the blades and ply sheeting, cover the wing and control surfaces, then ready for paint I think. I'll put a cockpit floor in now, but I won't do any detail until after she (hopefully) flies.
06-28-2012, 08:49 PM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Hey Dave, Now that i got dumb question about a four blade system out of the way.......
I know i gotta whole lot of reading to do between now and when i get the kit!!!!!! Trying to get organized on the reading and get all the threads in one folder. Would like to think that i am a fairly decent builder, but Jeeez! This is a whole different animal and the first day of school.
Will be watching your thread, and it appears that most of the whirley freeks hang out at 'The Other' site. You are doing a beautiful job! The more i read the more i realize the hugh amount of blood sweat and tears that these guys have put into making the launch of this venture suscessful and thanks to all of them....... Steve (Steverc123 in the other place)
I know i gotta whole lot of reading to do between now and when i get the kit!!!!!! Trying to get organized on the reading and get all the threads in one folder. Would like to think that i am a fairly decent builder, but Jeeez! This is a whole different animal and the first day of school.Will be watching your thread, and it appears that most of the whirley freeks hang out at 'The Other' site. You are doing a beautiful job! The more i read the more i realize the hugh amount of blood sweat and tears that these guys have put into making the launch of this venture suscessful and thanks to all of them....... Steve (Steverc123 in the other place)
06-29-2012, 05:45 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Very cool, a building buddy! You're at the exact same point I was a couple months ago. It is a different animal, but if I wanted to know with 99.9% certainty that a model I built would look good and I would have no problems flying successfully I would build a Sig 4-Star over and over. Not much challenge or excitement after you've done that once though.
The four blade question is not dumb, if you read all the threads on RC groups, in almost every single one the builder considers doing 4 blades before deciding against it. You can always revisit it after you've flown 3 blades successfully. All of the threads have good info, the one by Jodini and the one by Sofaman have answers to most of the questions you will come across. SafeLandings is a nice clear and clean build thread with some nice modifications to the landing gear and scale detail, especially the mast/rotor/blades. Pedantic and Skydanz have great scale mods. Those are the threads I reference the most. Oh, and there is one I reference for how not to do it, like don't change all the angles, don't chop 4 inches off your blades, don't blast off on maiden and try to trim while flying, etc.
On the building side I'm hoping my thread will show it can be built "clean, fast, sticking to plans" and look good. And on the flying side document my experience as a person with no prior autogiro experience attempting to fly this model.
I've drawn a couple planes in CAD and cut them on my cnc router. One was a P-26 from Royal plans, the other was an Acroduster Too of my own design. The time that goes into design is significant, but the time and effort that goes into actually kitting a model is way beyond what I would ever try to do. I'm glad they did it for this model.
Not sure if they look any different, but I finished covering the blades. Sorry Joe, went with fabric instead of glass. After thinking about it the fabric will look as good or better with less work. Fabric hides imperfections so much better than glass which tends to magnify them.
The four blade question is not dumb, if you read all the threads on RC groups, in almost every single one the builder considers doing 4 blades before deciding against it. You can always revisit it after you've flown 3 blades successfully. All of the threads have good info, the one by Jodini and the one by Sofaman have answers to most of the questions you will come across. SafeLandings is a nice clear and clean build thread with some nice modifications to the landing gear and scale detail, especially the mast/rotor/blades. Pedantic and Skydanz have great scale mods. Those are the threads I reference the most. Oh, and there is one I reference for how not to do it, like don't change all the angles, don't chop 4 inches off your blades, don't blast off on maiden and try to trim while flying, etc.
On the building side I'm hoping my thread will show it can be built "clean, fast, sticking to plans" and look good. And on the flying side document my experience as a person with no prior autogiro experience attempting to fly this model.
I've drawn a couple planes in CAD and cut them on my cnc router. One was a P-26 from Royal plans, the other was an Acroduster Too of my own design. The time that goes into design is significant, but the time and effort that goes into actually kitting a model is way beyond what I would ever try to do. I'm glad they did it for this model.
Not sure if they look any different, but I finished covering the blades. Sorry Joe, went with fabric instead of glass. After thinking about it the fabric will look as good or better with less work. Fabric hides imperfections so much better than glass which tends to magnify them.
06-30-2012, 05:21 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
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Yup Dave, A couple months behind and the clock is running! Going to do my traditional 'tear the shop apart and reorganize' routine this weekend. A treasure hunt of what i misplaced on the last build. I have built on sheetrock in the past and picked up a box of ceiling tile and am going to give that a try this time. Thanks for the heads up on the threads on who did what. Skydance is who does the cowl molds i think. I sent him a mail asking if he still had those available and haven't heard back yet. This will be my first short kit build so there won't be a box to just reach into and grab the part. Got to get the long wood ordered......haven't decided on a supplier yet, and suggestions there are definitely welcome. Going to keep it simple and light. Build in provisions to add detail later if it survives the test flights. Haven't decided on covering yet.... I used Worldtex on the last build and it worked great, but might take the plunge and go with Koverall and dope. LOL I built a Bud Nosen Citabria years ago with Koverall and spray paint Weighed a ton and would barely fly with the weak 4 strokes of the day. You mentioned on one thread about weighing the blades and how close they needed to match (no response to the question that i saw).....I almost bought a set of scales at the post office the other day. 10 lb capacity with one gram resolution. Think that will be good enough? Forty dollars and my post office buddy said they would swap them out for a year with the receipt in case of failure. Watching ebay for a scroll saw.....i lost mine in a move years ago and been doing without one. Details details......Steve
My last build:
06-30-2012, 08:52 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
ORIGINAL: Steveibrc
Skydance is who does the cowl molds i think. I sent him a mail asking if he still had those available and haven't heard back yet.
Got to get the long wood ordered......haven't decided on a supplier yet, and suggestions there are definitely welcome.
Haven't decided on covering yet.... I used Worldtex on the last build and it worked great
You mentioned on one thread about weighing the blades and how close they needed to match (no response to the question that i saw)....
Skydance is who does the cowl molds i think. I sent him a mail asking if he still had those available and haven't heard back yet.
Got to get the long wood ordered......haven't decided on a supplier yet, and suggestions there are definitely welcome.
Haven't decided on covering yet.... I used Worldtex on the last build and it worked great
You mentioned on one thread about weighing the blades and how close they needed to match (no response to the question that i saw)....
Nice looking plane, great job on the covering. I considered doing one of the Tex's for covering, only reason I didn't was because I already had all the supplies to do Koverall and would have had to bought the Tex.
I did my cowl from balsa. I'm actually building the PCA-3 version with the Pratt and Whitney Wasp Jr. from the picture below. Since I'm using the Williams Bros. Wasp dummy radial I will make an dummy exhaust collector ring behind the engine right up to the cowl. The balsa cowl is very easy to make and the engine is very easy to work on once you take the dummy radial off. The picture below shows how I attached a dummy radial to a P-26 I'm building using aluminum standoffs, I'll do the same on the PCA-2. Three screws and it comes off, easy access to the engine if needed.
If you have the tools to make your own sticks that's what I would do. I've ordered from several different suppliers, Balsa USA on this build, and every one of them has good wood in general, but does a horrible job sizing the sticks. When every 1/4" square balsa stick is 1/32" too small on one side it makes building the fuse side and lining up all the laser cut parts in the right place a real pain. National Balsa is who I usually use and other than the stick thing, they are just as good as Balsa USA and cheaper.
A lot of questions I've asked I've done through pm's also, so I remember Joe said those weights were fine. I'm going to get them exactly the same to the gram with primer when I paint. Right now after fabric and nitrate dope they are still within 2 grams, 159, 160 and 161.
07-01-2012, 06:19 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Dave, Never had a problem with the stick thing and can see what an unnecessary pain that can be. How do you cut your own? Also one LG piece has a sig description. I know from experience the haphazard wood wood you sometimes find in sig kits, but also have heard their custom ordered is about good as it gets, wonder about sig stick quality any idea? Was never an issue to me in their kits. Haven't heard back on the cowl, and leaning toward a wood nose anyway. Homemade cowl, a 90 fs scrounged up somewhere, and a twenty dollar tower radial suits me for the beak end.
I would think that tower would have the stand offs your referring to also. I am a long ways from crossing that bridge, but do need to get the major parts togethers so i can get the pieces figured out. Saw some new (to me) servos, Savox, on National Balsa's site that looked pretty nice, dug up a few reviews singing their praises and wondering if anyone out there has any experience with them? TTYL Steve
I would think that tower would have the stand offs your referring to also. I am a long ways from crossing that bridge, but do need to get the major parts togethers so i can get the pieces figured out. Saw some new (to me) servos, Savox, on National Balsa's site that looked pretty nice, dug up a few reviews singing their praises and wondering if anyone out there has any experience with them? TTYL Steve
07-01-2012, 06:51 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Steve, FYI- if you're concerned with weight when painting Koverall, try painting with Nelson paint. When thinned and applied with a foam brush, you get truly surprising results. The foam brush method allows you to keep thr coats ultra-thin thus controlling weight. Fuel proof, and I get nothing but compliments on my finishes. People are amazed when I tell them I used a foam brush!
Smithcreek, this project is looking awesome. You've got me thinking about trying one myself! Can't wait to see your flight video
Smithcreek, this project is looking awesome. You've got me thinking about trying one myself! Can't wait to see your flight video
07-01-2012, 09:21 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
Rv, Funny you should mention, I was talking to a gray head from that part of the world about nelson paint the other day. He was in a shop that painted rc car bodies (dirt tracks) and used it day in and day out and said it was really good. He knows the people best i remember.....Said they use same raw materials suppliers used by PPG or somthing like that. What do you thin with?
07-01-2012, 11:13 AM
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RE: Pitcairn PCA-2 Autogiro by Whirlybird Aviation
I thin with water. Nelson's stuff is actually a System 3 product. It cures like a rubber, sort of... which is what makes it so nice for fabric; it always stays flexible. It can also be airbrushed if you thin a little more. You add 7 drops of cross-linker to each oz of paint, that's what makes it fuel proof. It also dries fast, which makes it easier to apply many light coats.