TBONE6

BINGO!! I can order a plane from Hamilton Hobbies, I get a call when it comes in, I can inspect it, and if something is damaged/missing, I don't have to buy it! Sure, it may cost a few dollars more, but not compared to S&H rates. Keeps my LHS in business too!

predman

My Feedback: (7)

I understand inflation, but for me to ship the same box back to them priority mail cost me $14.60, them to me $38

edp

My Feedback: (5)

Is insurance part of their S&H?

Mark Dennis

My Feedback: (4)

Predman,

Please understand that I am not trying to defend TBM but I feel as though you all could use a perspective from someone who has been in the ARF business for a few years.

Shipping rates have gone up tremendously, not just in the cost of shipping the item from the retail center to the consumer but also from China (Or wherever the product is made) to the retail center/warehouse. The boxes that are used to ship these items in have doubled if not tripled in recent years as well. These increases also do not account for the time it takes to process the order; someone has to process, pack, and ship the item. There is also at least a 3% charge on credit card transactions, not to mention the fees that may be associated with different card types.

Larger companies may be able to ship items at a slightly lower rate to the customer due to their shipping volume and their discount amount. It also depends on the size of the box, one inch in any dimension can instantly bump the package up to the next "Oversize" level, instantly adding $30.00+ to the cost of shipping. Shipping prices can also vary depending on where the airplane is shipped, this can change the cost of shipping any item by 10-30%.

All of the things I mentioned above must go into the calculation of shipping charges, it is not as simple as slapping a label on a box and sending it wherever. I think you will also find that many companies loose money on shipping rates and are in no way making extra profit from the lower than needed shipping charges.

Once again, please understand that these are my personal opinions and observations and should not be linked to any company in particular.

Mark

psb667

Gotta pay Devins college tuition. No just kidding (maybe) The real of it is that tbm is ripping you off for shipping. Most of what you guys have quoted as shipping costs from tbm are twice what they should be.

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

Does anyone know the box dimensions of the Corsair and Seafury. There is an easy way to figure out the exact shipping cost and avoid all the speculation!

psb667

19x16x54 @25lbs. apparently the weight of the package counts for something. So according to the shippers I got quotes for that size and weight. TBM is getting you a fair deal on shipping. Slightly smaller packages I have shipped in the last few months have shipped for about half that from the same company's at about half the weight(14 to 16 lbs). All the quotes that I got for the corsair package size and weight came in at $90 give or take.

I retract my previous statement. [:@]

Bill Rademacher

My Feedback: (77)

Hey all, FWIW

part of what I do is build Ecommerce systems for companies just like TBM. Shipping is the absolute hardest item to design and "tune". No matter who the shipper, all charge by weight and dimension. For example, USPS has a 75LB limit, while UPS is 150 lbs. Things like that. Also there are dimensional limits. You may see a tire or a fender shipped with just a label, etc. And shipping rates are different for businesses with accounts vs. people walking into a counter at an office.

Some companies take the order, box it all up, and slap it on an in house scale, and get a quote. Others hit a web service for the cost, transmitting dimension and weight limit to get a cost. Still others build their own "regional tables" based on UPS tables "adjusted" for handling and goofy sizes, etc. Part of the problem they run into is shipping a 5 gallon bucket and a small box of nails to the same address. A human shipper can put the box of nails into the bucket, and ship it. A totally automated system cannot do that. The AI doesn't exist yet for the medium to small vendor.

If I ship a book in a flat rate box, I save money on shipping, although a person a short distance away may not like the price. But if someone orders too many books far away, I can't ship that way because I can only cram so many into a box. It really gets nutty for the vendor. Jewelry is crazy like that two. If I go flat rate, I can cram 100 $6.00 earrings into the same flat rate box, yet if I ship only one earring, that customer gets hosed on the shipping.

knowing this, if the cost of shipping is within my "gut" check, I buy it. It is a very imperfect system. I won't even discuss tracking...

billrad

Tone Price

Hey guys, I know this has been brought up before/addressed many times but unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation spreading and I must reply. The ZIP here is 34293. Please keep this in mind when comparing your own quotes. A package going from FL to FL will be cheaper than a package going from FL to CA.

Let us take a look at the small Corsair vs the Sea Fury:
25# 19x16x54 ESMF4U-74FAF ESM F4U Corsair Color F 74" Wingspan Model ARF ($339.00 value at the time of this post)
31# 56x17x22 ESMHSEAFURY-80FAF ESM Hawker Sea Fury Color F 80" Wingspan Model ARF ($409.00 value at the time of this post)

Oversized explanation: http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../oversize.html

UPS uses the 2 larger dimensions for a box (Length + 2x Width + 2x Height) "19 and 54 for the Corsair / 56 and 22 for the Seafury" to determine the Girth of the box. Already you can see these numbers add up differently though the boxes LOOK the same size.

Using this formula gives us our package measurement:
74" Corsair: 162
80" Sea Fury: 173

Using a random San Diego zip (92150), here are my results for shipping price including insurance UPS Ground:
74" Corsair: $73.35
80" Sea Fury: $151.17

I invite anyone to try this out on their own, I can also provide screen shots of our UPS Worldship utility if need be. If anyone has any questions please shoot me an email: [email protected]

Here are the sizes and weights of all the ESM boxes:

25# 20x16x50 ESMA1SKY-71AAF ESM A1 Skyraider Color A #409 Stinger 71" Wingspan Model ARF
25# 20x16x50 ESMA1SKY-71BAF ESM A1 Skyraider Color B Gray #300 71" Wingspan Model ARF
18# 14x11x51 ESMADREN90-63AAF ESM Adrenaline 90 Size 63" Wingspan 3D Aerobatic Model ARF
44# 19x16x76 ESMB25-95FAF ESM B-25 Mitchell Color F 95" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 18x16x57 ESMBEAVER-95AAF ESM DHC-2 Beaver Color A Green and Yellow 95" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 18x16x57 ESMBEAVER-95BAF ESM DHC-2 Beaver Color B Red and Black 95" Wingspan Model ARF
11# 11x10x38 ESMBEAVEREP-59FAF ESM DHC-2 Beaver EP Color F 59" Wingspan Model ARF
27# 18x17x53 ESMBF109-73AAF ESM BF-109 Messerschmitt aka ME-109 Color A 73" Wingspan Model ARF
27# 18x17x53 ESMBF109-73BAF ESM BF-109 Messerschmitt aka ME-109 Color B 73" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 62x19x23 ESMBF109-88FAF ESM BF-109 Messerschmitt aka ME-109 Color F 50cc 88" Wingspan Model ARF
36# 69x16x18 ESMBF110C-95FAF ESM BF-110C Zerstorer Color F 95" Wingspan Model ARF
33# 20x16x63 ESMBONANZAA36-80AAF ESM Beech Bonanza Standard Tail 36 Blue/Grey Color A 80.5" Wingspan Model ARF
33# 20x16x63 ESMBONANZAA36-80BAF ESM Beech Bonanza Standard Tail 36 Color Blue/Gold "B" 80.5" Wingspan Model ARF
33# 20x16x63 ESMBONANZAV35-80FAF ESM Beech Bonanza V-Tail 35 Color F 80.5" Wingspan Model ARF
? ESMBU181-83FAF ESM Bucker Bu-181 Bestman 83" Wingspan Model ARF
29# 18x17x53 ESMCESSNA185-86AAF ESM Cessna 185 Color A Red and Black 86.6" Wingspan Model ARF Optional Floats Available
29# 18x17x53 ESMCESSNA185-86BAF ESM Cessna 185 Color B Blue and Gold 86.6" Wingspan Model ARF Optional Floats Available
27# 56x16x20 ESMD3A1-81AAF ESM Aichi D3A1 Color A 81" (white) Wingspan Model ARF
27# 56x16x20 ESMD3A1-81FAF ESM Aichi D3A1 Color F 81" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 21x17x74 ESMDC3I-104AAF ESM DC-3 I Color A Silver 103.9" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 21x17x74 ESMDC3II-104BAF ESM DC-3 I Color B White 103.9" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 21x17x74 ESMDC3III-104CAF ESM DC-3 III Color C Camouflage 103.9" Wingspan Model ARF
44# 71x18x25 ESMDO335-83FAF ESM Dornier DO-335 Color F 83.5" Wingspan Model ARF
25# 19x16x54 ESMF4U-74FAF ESM F4U Corsair Color F 74" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 63x20x22 ESMF4U-85FAF ESM F4U Corsair Color F 85" Wingspan Model ARF
27# 19x16x53 ESMF6F-72AAF ESM F6F Hellcat Color A WHITE 72" Wingspan Model ARF
27# 19x16x53 ESMF6F-72FAF ESM F6F Hellcat Color F BLUE 72" Wingspan Model ARF
44# 23x16x75 ESMF7F-83AAF ESM F7F Tigercat Shiny Color A 82.9" Wingspan Model ARF
44# 23x16x75 ESMF7F-83BAF ESM F7F Tigercat Matte Color B 82.9" Wingspan Model ARF
29# 21x17x50 ESMF8FP-71BAF ESM F8F Bearcat P-Tail Color B 71" Wingspan Model ARF
29# 21x17x50 ESMF8FS-71AAF ESM F8F Bearcat S-Tail Color A 71" Wingspan Model ARF
38# 20x20x60 ESMFAIREYSF-85AAF ESM Fairey Swordfish 50cc 85.4" Wingspan Model ARF
25# 20x16x50 ESMFW190-71FAF ESM FW-190 Focke-Wulf Color F 71" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 22x21x72 ESMFW190D9-83FAF ESM FW-190 D9 Focke-Wulf Color F 50cc 82.5" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 56x17x22 ESMHSEAFURY-80FAF ESM Hawker Sea Fury Color F 80" Wingspan Model ARF
29# 18x16x54 ESMHTYPH-73FAF ESM Hawker Typhoon Color F 73.2" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 19x19x54 ESMHURRICANE-82FAF ESM Hawker Hurricane Color F 82" Wingspan Model ARF
47# 66x20x25 ESMJ2M3-81FAF ESM J2M3 Raiden Color F 50cc 81" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 15x20x55 ESMJU87B-80AAF ESM Ju 87 B Stuka 80" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 20x15x55 ESMJU87D-80BAF ESM Ju 87 D Stuka 80" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 20x15x55 ESMJU87D-80WAF ESM Ju 87 D Stuka Winter 80" Wingspan Model ARF
25# 18x16x51 ESMKI84-72FAF ESM Japanese Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate Color F 72" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 18x24x53 ESMLA7-80FAF ESM Lavochkin LA-7 Color F 80" Wingspan Model ARF
33# 58x19x23 ESMP39-80FAF ESM P-39 Airacobra Color F 80" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 55x22x23 ESMP40-87FAF ESM P-40 Warhawk Tora Color F 50cc 87" Wingspan Model ARF
29# 19x18x53 ESMP47DI-71AAF ESM P-47 Thunderbolt Color A DI Camouflage 71" Wingspan ARF
29# 19x18x53 ESMP47DII-71BAF ESM P-47 Thunderbolt Color B DII Silver 71" Wingspan ARF
25# 20x12x54 ESMP51B-71AAF ESM P-51B Mustang Color A BALD EAGLE 71" Wingspan ARF
25# 20x12x54 ESMP51B-71BAF ESM P-51B Mustang Muskeg Color B 71" Wingspan ARF
25# 20x12x54 ESMP51D-71AAF ESM P-51D Mustang Miss America Color A 71" Wingspan Model ARF
25# 20x12x54 ESMP51D-71BAF ESM P-51D Mustang Gunfighter Color B 71" Wingspan ARF
25# 20x12x54 ESMP51D-71CAF ESM P-51D Mustang Cripes A'Mighty Color C 71" Wingspan ARF
25# 20x12x54 ESMP51D-71FAF ESM P-51D Mustang Glamorous Glenn Color F 71" Wingspan ARF
36# 19x16x74 ESMPC21-71FAF ESM Pilatus PC-21 Color F 71" Wingspan Model ARF
33# 68x14x22 ESMPC9-80FAF ESM Pilatus PC-9 Color F 80" Wingspan Model ARF
25# 18x20x52 ESMSBD5-71FAF ESM SBD-5 Douglas Dauntless Color F 71" Wingspan Model ARF
27# 19x18x53 ESMSPITF-73FAF ESM Spitfire MK XIV-XIX Color F 72.5" Wingspan Model ARF
40# 23x21x63 ESMSPITF-89FAF ESM Spitfire Camouflage Color F 50cc 89" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 22x18x57 ESMT28-80AAF ESM T-28 Trojan Red and White Color A 80" Wingspan Model ARF
31# 22x18x57 ESMT28-80FAF ESM T-28 Trojan Yellow Color F 80" Wingspan Model ARF
33# 68x14x22 ESMT6TEXANII-80FAF ESM T-6 Texan II Color F 80" Wingspan Model ARF
20# 18x11x48 ESMTWOTTER-65FAF ESM DHC-6 Twin Otter Color F 65" Wingspan Model ARF

Tone Price

Mpizpilot, the retracts you received were NOT a return. While MOST of the ESM retracts come in a nice white box, some DO NOT! Some come in a small cardboard box. I'm unsure how I would prove this to you other than remembering to take a picture when a container with gear comes in.

Also in regards to my post earlier, the 34293 zip was a mistake, that's actually my home zip code! The zip codes we would have our planes at would be 34232, 34240, or 34203. There should not be too much a difference but I wanted to clarify!

Bill Rademacher, that's a perfect explanation. Currently, our software does not calculate USPS correctly. It would be nice if all our items were tiny pieces of jewelry, but they are not. All our quotes online are UPS ground for this reason. Until we implement better software this is what we have to deal with. Like you mentioned, it's best to order 5 servos rather than 1 since (depending on the insurance cost), you will save by shipping more items rather than 1!

Customers are encouraged to give us a call and request a quote before they make an order though. We (humans) are willing to take up the slack where our computer software fails!

vasek

My Feedback: (4)

Consider yourself lucky with only 13%... where I am, we pay 20% plus 20% ON THE SHIPPING COST [:@]

flejter1

Midas,

DUDE, I have bought from TBM, ARF pros, Dream Works, VQ WARBIRDS and have recieved nothing but outstanding service. The nice thing about SHOPPING for a new plane or parts, is you "SHOP" the best price including shipping & taxes before you give your CC #. I personally have recieved broken parts, have had wrong items shipped or items lost in the mail and all the above mentioned companies took care of business quickly with no problems. The idea of buying an item, knowing your total $$ at time of purchase, giving a CC # to pay for it and then getting on a forum to bash the seller because you didn't like the price is absolutley WRONG!!! Now if you didn't get what you purchased or it was damaged and they didn't take care of it, that is worth bashing the seller. But crying about shipping after the fact??? REALLY??? BTW, I have no affiliation with any of the companies mentioned, just a hobbiest like everyone else here.

wallace.tharp

I stated in another forum about shipping damage and Chinese service on returns etc. that I am really pleased with Percision Aerobtics, an Ausie Co that makes mostly small electric light and very aerobatic RC airplanes. My experience was last month I ordered an Extra-260, USA, PA, my 3rd one. All are still flyable, but banged up cowls, wingtip scrapes, etc. The first 2 probably had 200 flights on each. They are just the greatest small scale, aerobatic ACFT that I have ever tried. They were recommended to me by one of the owners of Chief Aircraft. He was flying one on his lunch hour every day in Oregon. Anyhoo, the box weighs just under 5 lbs and the shipping is quite reasonable....but, my last one came in it's usual double box, well packed and 3 crushed lower fus formers thanks to some ham-fisted handeling by UPS. You could see the crushed spot in the side of the box. Long and short; sent Steve at PA USA a text with picture and he sent me a brand new extra-260, no charge, return shipping sticker. He said he had to sent a complete matched model because the wing anit-rotation pins and wing tubes are custom fit. WoW! No, I do not work for and am not sponsored by either of these companies. Just sayin. Wallace Tharp

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

I tried to order a receiver switch from TBM...cost was $25.00...and they tried to charge me $38.00 for shipping. I sent them an email requesting USPS shipping...and never received an answer from them. I didn't make the buy...and went else where.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

wallace.tharp

Bob, Maui No-cow-owi, pardon my ploor Hawaiian spelling. I'm going to Maui at the end of the month. Can't wait. I have been buying almost all fo my small misc from Tower or US shops. I try to support my LHS but that is a mixed bag. For starters I am 32 miles from the closest in PHX. Couple of shops have great help in the store and another, a chain, has a few R/C guys, and car or boat/plastic model people that will sell you something but have only monkey hear, monkey see other worker knowledge. Note to those interested in A123 lipos: Wall St Journal, today, you can google it, "Largest Chinese Target: Batteries" Our government under Obama has injected MILLIONS into it! The answer??? Back to ruber-bands I guess. Chears. Wallace Tharp

midastouch_73

My Feedback: (27)

Obviously we all love this hobby. Our need to feed our addiction is obvioiusly slowed by the countless amount of money we all spend to stay airbourne. Unfortunantly for most of us our LHS only sell planes and the things that most of us have out grown and have no need for anymore. I've done plenty of business with TBM in the past and I have had no problems whatsoever. Unfortunantly this time things went sour for several reasons which were later explained to me. I spoke with Tone Price early this morningat lengthabout a wide array of things includuing this situation. Tone Price went above and beyond to make this situation right. I have to give credit where credit is due. TBM went out of their way to make things right with my shipping. I appreciate the fact they didnt blow of my concerns as if they didnt care. That's what I call true customer service!!!I feel more than comfortable doing more business with Tone and TBM. I can say without a doubt they do care about thier customers.....

glazier808

My Feedback: (1)

Hey......


"



Is it just me or does it seem as if TMB charges astronomical rates for shipping. I recently purchased ESM 74 Corsair. The shipping came to around $70 or $80. I purchased a ESM Sea Fury 2 weeks ago and the charge to ship it was $150. When I asked why the shipping rate was so high I was told becuase it's a large plane and the box is large. When the box came it was the same damn size as the corsair. I'm furious at this point. To make matters worse I needed to replace the center section of my ESM Hawker Typhoon. The section cost $70. They want $61 to ship it!!! That's totally ridiculous. They told me USPS was not any cheaper? I'm cakking BS on this one..... "






Are you a politician???


LOL


Casey

w0mbat

My Feedback: (1)

I still have to ask....Was the Corsair in the same size box as the Sea Fury or are the box sizes they listed above accurate?

flejter1

Midas,

Thats a much better response!! I am not made of $$ and I do my best at shopping around. You make a very valid point that we all need to remember. We all have out grown most of our local hobby shop inventory and stocking our kind of planes is to expensive for them. All the previous mentioned plane suppliers need to stay in business here in the good ol USA or we will be really screwed. When I buy from the above mentioned, I look at it as I am supporting my LHS on my level of needs, I want them to stay in business, but just can't drive in and say hi. They need to make a margin of profit and if it is in the shipping, so be it!! They are all buying from ESM or whom ever and are paying the same price to the manufacturer and they all stay competative on plane pricing so where else are they suppose to make any $$ to keep the doors open? To me, customer services is everything and all the above mentioned at some point and time has taken care of me and my purchases.



This is a pic of my current project. ESM 85" making it my own!!

Good Flying!!

midastouch_73

My Feedback: (27)

Love the corsair. That's my next project....

bikedriver

My Feedback: (83)

I've never had a problem with Troy Built but UPS seems to take great joy in smashing the packages they charge so much to ship! I do a lot of internet shopping and FEDEX does a far better job of caring for merchandise they are moving.

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

I get the shipping and insurance, however I want the option to decide on the insurance. It bothers me that I can order the same item from someone else and sometimes 50% less on freight and handling. I know some will chime in and state that it is because of location. That is part of it, but not all of it. If I buy some small items that are 10 dollars, I do not want 50 dollars of insurance and handling charges.

We ship every day at the company I work for and we ship all over so I am very familiar with shipping and handling and some of the rates I see at TBM are simply outrageous and I have yet to understand why. We ship items that can weigh 50l - 100 lbs or more. We ship overnight AIR every day and also other avenues. We ship by many carriers too, so I am very aware of freight costs. Need I state that we hate dealing with freight costs at our company?

What I will state is that because of TBM's high rates of handling and shipping I have never ordered an item from your company and yet I have wanted to so many times. You have items that I have really desired to purchase, but due to shipping said no and ordered elsewhere or took some other path because of your shipping/handling cost.

Here is a good example. Not long ago I ordered some small items that I told the vendor to "snail mail" to me as I was in no hurry. Some vendors say "No, we don't do that" while others oblidge. To the first it is their loss because another company makes the sale. The items' shipping cost pennys on the dollar instead of double to triple cost for a lightweight item as in your company's case.

If your handling cost is the main problem then maybe you should re-evaluate your shipping processes and see what you need to do to get them streamlined and under control instead of passing them along to the customer. We all know fuel is getting higher and freight is too, but we must make sure we are doing our best where our customers are concerned as they keep us in business.

Can we survive with cost on freight and handling? The company I work for has been doing it for over 125 years so it can be done effectively.

TCHIEF

My Feedback: (15)

UPS Ultimate Package Smashers sometimes i wonder if they use the package as a parking brake

deatonbt

I don't have anything to say about any retailers and just want to talk about the cost of shipping.

I am an independent courier and have a contract with a company that does deliveries for some retailers; some may be ordered online. The company is not UPS or Fedex. On small boxes the company often loses money on the delivery. Other deliveries subsidize the small box deliveries that are out in the boonies. Say an18" X 18" X18" box pays the driver $5 to deliver. If the box is in a busy area or an area that is close to civilization, the driver makes good money along his route. But say that the address is 15 minutes away from a major drag and there are no other deliveries in the area. That is a 30 minute round trip plus his gas at 12 miles to the gallon. A driver cannot make money if he has too many of those boxes on board. So, the driver cherry picks his deliveries, and nobody blames him. The company is going to have to call a courier like me to deliver the box. I am not going to a warehouse and pick up a load of boxes at 2 to $5 a box and deliver them out in the sticks. I am going to charge a bit better rate by charging by the trip. The company that handles the deliveries looses a fair amount of money on those deliveries when considering the slim profit margin after payroll and overhead.

If you live out in the sticks and are receiving small boxes, you are getting a really really good deal.

- Brian

midastouch_73

My Feedback: (27)

No politician here just a concerned consumer that spends tons of money and wants satisfaction... I'd rather fight for the people than against them!!! That's against a politicians code of ethics.... Lol