elven wizard

This is going to be long so for a full wrap around, this was needed.
I feel like typing anyways. I have to do it fast before a movie starts at the theater. I received a question from the HPI's New Engine post. After I just got thru it I felt perhaps it was worthy to make a new post out of it. I do go into other area's that seem non 1/5 related but this was the only way to explain all this. I'll first put the question up from this Rcuniverse member.




MadMax123 -
E/W kudos for the great thread,ok we had words before but i need to leave a comment on this one because it's intresting indeed.

here are my thoughts,i think this will be a big hit cause that engine and chassis have one main advantage,they both are very light,when you compare the power to weight ratio it indeed looks quite promising,you really will have decent power with low engine running costs,another advantage may be the 'over all costs' for example,when you are used to running proper 5th scale model cars,in a nutshell to have/own a reliable one,you need weight,meaning- you end up either doing one of the following things,you either buy a stock sportline/plastic model,or a full on comp model, to make the stock model work you need to have it complete alloy,(eventually) now you got expense!!,option two is to buy a full on competition model,this is going to run in to serious costs,we will say for example if i wanted an extremely durable reliabale-/fast model 5th scale offroad,i would most likely buy an FG leopard race,now look at the cost differnce?

IMO for the basher i think this one here could be a great cost efficient model,it is light enough to be quick & to be honest it looks durable enough not to need all the alloy bling so many others do..... we all know what the savage trucks are like,they are fairly bulletproof,the XL....need we say anymore...it looks very tough.

i want one too.


i have one concern though,how durable is that little 8cc gas cylinder & piston going to be,i know it's easy to take out and work on but one thing that turned me off nitro and nitro model racing was the maintainence,it's ridicolus!!!! i know nitro users that need to change pistons every race meeting.even bashing a nitro model you need piston/sleeve changed regularly enough.again it's not anything major and easy to do BUT NITRO PARTS WERE EXPENSIVE......... :O
in fact i bet the piston and con road are very similar to the nitro stuff with the only thing making it work on GAS is the head and porting/carb.


wouldn't mind reading a proper "used/owned" review on this one soon.

end




Gas vs Nitro thoughts & etc

Mr. Madmax123 yes that engine would be almost as small like a nitro engine.
Well I'll tell you what I know, even though I don't know much. I think that engine is best suited for the XL because of it's size I did say if this works out HPI will sell loads of these. That's a "if" in there. Keep in mind now since this is a gas engine and is now almost as small as a nitro engine what will the performance be like ? Well here it goes. Hpi has now down sized a gas engine to almost as small as a nitro engine. This changes everything.
Nitromethane is about 2 to 3 times more powerful than gasoline. That is doubled or tripled the performance over gas. Which means more power per stroke. In itself nitro is explosive because it is oxygenated. The additional oxygen the nitro supplies the combustion process allows a nitro engine to burn more fuel. A greater amount is energy is converted into force. That moment of mechanical force between each explosion of nitro is so much greater than gas that it's almost insane. What goes on in that combustion chamber to generate that much power is amazing. That power is sent step by step so fast from the piston back down thru the rod and sent through that tiny crankshaft to the drive train from such a small mill. Again it is amazing. The power lie's in nitro fuel. Nitromethane is not as dense as gas is, it is much lower. A glow engine will deliver more power and a wider linear rpm band for the same displacement side by side a gas engine. Were a gas hits it's rpm ceiling a nitro from there can expand twice, twice in a half to almost 3 times as more. Example - Gas Zenoah 23cc k/W 2.15 / 14000 - no load - rpm 19,500 Picco .26 HP 2.7 RPM 34,000 A nitro's smaller / lighter component part's like piston, rod and crank turn faster because the distances between the piston, rod and crankshaft are shorter thus spinning sooner. A nitro engine completes it's cycle to top dead center faster then gas. The forces act sooner on to another to get to one point to the other faster because of these short distances. It's amazing that a piston engine can have a rpm of up to 40,000 + The weight of a nitro engine is much lighter than gas. The transfer of energy to move a nitro rc is much less that 1/5. Majority of rc airplanes use nitro engine's. Three reason's lightweight, small, and powerful. The power band is longer and wider in a nitro. The power of the nitro is spread more evenly across the RPM range. Nitro has a more narrow power band. Nitro has limited power in the lower RPM's and then when it's in a certain RPM range the really power kicks in. Raising rpm effectively increases an engine’s displacement - ' weird but true '. The nitro engine is a simpler design than gas less ignition. When you have a rc with a nitro engine you have something special. Think of the 2 engine's gas & nitro as energy source's. The nitro engine is a greater one. A gas engine will have alot lower Rpm, more torque. Gas there is no replacement for displacement. Gas is less messy. Gas is ringed. Gas engine's power is more consistant. Gas takes less distance for it to accelerate than would a nitro. The torque curve on gas doesn't drop off as rapidly as the rpm increases like a nitro.
Gas suits 1/5 perfectly were you need that torque to move that bigger / heavier rc. I see this on my big MCD truck. Those 4x4 MCD trucks need constant torq to counter the forces of friction and aerodynamic drag because of it's weight and size. Especially going up a steep hill were forces really work in the opposite direction and become greater on these big weighted trucks, moving those big tires, than would a lighter nitro rc truck. A greater force is needed to move anything heavier. In the MCD trucks I put motors with as much torq as I can in them. Lighter scale rc's nitro fits the 1/10th - 1/8th. The characteristics of these engines are dictated by the specs of the application for which the engine is intended for. The precision and accuracy of construction of a nitro engine build is at a much higher level than gas. Not to say gas rc is not a well made engine, it's just that nitro engine tolerances are more precise. That's why nitro engines are more difficult to make and expensive to buy. People say gas is more reliable. I like to change that. Both gas and nitro are reliable. If you have a complete understanding of nitro engines, then nitro engine's can be very reliable. The nitro just needs a little bit more maintenance. I do run gas alot because I do big track runs and I like seeing the scale of 1/5 on the move. Nitro Rc's I use on smaller tracks cause they need the cool down.
You say on this post - "nitro users that need to change pistons every race meeting" - In San Diego Convey were there used to be races. First off I don't want to downplay racer's. Most are intelligent and know what there doing. There are just those you see at the track that look the part but aren't. The ones that have the expensive tool boxes, stand, set up, the whole works. They don't know what there doing besides just turning on there Rc's. Anything other than that, when a problem arises, you start to see other racer's working on there rc. Racers would come to me hand over there nitro buggy's either give up or tell me to fix it to sell it. Racer's running there buggy's into the pit with a mute clattering after a heat seeing slight steam coming out from underneath the nitro heads and clear coming out of the exhaust. So what's going on here ?
Upon inspection taking apart these engine's tell's the tale of the story. Piston and liner's scarred and gouged like nothing. Piston Discoloration, all different types of abuse, I have even seen low spots in them. So why are these cars unusually fast ? - There is no secret ! What there doing is leaning out the setting's to maximize there speed so that they can get that very bit more of a edge in the race. Speed and power ! These racer's missed the point. Instead of trying to have the fastest car, how about being the best driver. These engines already are being pushed to the max in these races. Setting's manipulated engine temps are now well above and beyond what they should be. Not counting there using nitro fuels with the lowest oil content possible and with the highest nitro percentage in them. There trying to make use as much power and rpm as they possibly can from there engine's. Something has to give, something has to be sacrificed when developing that much power. A nitro engine will give out as much as you can ask it, until it can't.
So basically these buggy's come back with cooked engine's. A leaned out carb means your engine will produce more friction, rising pressure & extreme temperature's in the combustion chamber putting stress on vital internal parts. Your engine's components is getting less oil to protect itself. A over leaned out nitro engine that is running at very high temps, tolerance's becomes closer and break down deterioration of metal occurs. Internal parts become vulnerable to exposed wear. Now surface-to-surface friction is happening with hardly any or no lubrication. Any oil that you think is in there is being burned away, evaporated. Once that clearance, that suspension between moving parts is thinned to nothing metal to metal contact occurs. Metal fatigue is being produced even dispensing tiny micron metal particles throughout the engine. Thrashing of these minuscule particles goes around the insides of the engine, bearing's and everywhere else. They become wear particles. From this more heat and wear is being produced. Resistance becomes greater. Operating loads of these little nitro engines is reached well over spec. Instead of reducing friction like a reasonable percentage of oil is supposed to do, friction is increased because of the lack. That steam or smoke you see coming from a the engine is from internal friction. All this from over leaning and minimal oil content. Perfect analogy - The thinner the oil content the more power you'll have. ( Of course for the time being ) Those oils in nitro are there for a reason to create a bond between metal to metal, oil repelling metals from touching each other. It's all about anti friction.
A nitro engine or any other engine is not intended for this kind of abuse. Instead of a well operating efficient running engine it has become a engine that is a prematurely wearing and inefficient. There are those that know this destruction and have handed me over a piston and sleeve in a baggy. Hey a engine went south but they won. No biggie to them. They won. Winning is everything to some people. Yup it's a ego thing. Sport figures do it all the time. They destroy there own body's with poison's like steroids to be the top guy. These racer's thinking there engine will be good as new again by just having me change out the piston and liner have another thing coming. What they dont know is that everything in that little tough nitro engine takes a hit. Piston and sleeve is not the only thing that wears. Even just looking at the glow plug tells the story. Turn over the flywheel and you can barely feel any resistance. To save money a racer will want me to go the resizing a piston & sleeve route. That's not a 100 percent especially since the rest of the nitro engine is shot. They'll say showing me the engine in there hand, can you give it a "squeeze" or another way of saying it "a pinch" ? Then I'll re size, replace there bearing's with good used one's and polish up the rest of the parts. Band aid fix a engine for there next race. Doesn't work that way. Even though that engine will work and sound good it's on limp mode when it comes to racing. A engine has to be 100 percent. Not 100 percent new, just in perfect or almost in perfect working order. Again racing a leaned out nitro engine is most damaging. Bearing surface's, con rod even the crank take a hit. What they have done is starved out there engine for that win. Try starting out these nitro engines after a run. Some are even seized. The ones that do run, run like the S word. Spec tolerance are way out of whack and compression is just about nothing. The one's that don't start are dead, YOU KILLED IT ! Not you personally Sound like I'm complaining, I'm not I'm just a sucker when it comes to fixing people's rc's.
This notion I have heard nitro engine's are still safe at above normal hot temps if you only use nitro fuel with synthetic oil cause synthetic oil doesn't burn off. Not true ! At highest temperature's even synthetic oil breaks down. I have heard between Caster and synthetic oil, synthetic oil is better. Why I ask is synthetic better to see there response. One answer was - because it just is. Another one told me cause high end auto's take it, it's a better quality oil, another cause synthetic holds itself better than Castor at higher temps. As I mentioned synthetic breaks down at high temps, in fact Castor oil properties changes at higher temps. Castor oil creates a harden slippery layer on metal surfaces in high temperatures were as synthetic burns off. I can tell when Castor is being used when I take apart an engine and see a gummy like varnish on the insides of the housing. In some cases to much caster can clog up a engine. I also don't recommend mixing fuel with very little oil, sure you'll go faster but your still burning up your engine innards. If you want to buy a blended version of nitro with Castor / synthetic that is fine. I don't want to make synthetic as a mere luxury oil, it's just there are alot of misconceptions about it. I also hear some say I'm just leaning it out for this one race after that everything goes back to stock setting for non races. It doesn't work that way. You may get lucky and get away doing this once or twice but it will catch up to your engine. All depends on how much you lean out your engine. It doesn't take much to ruin a nitro engine. As tough as they are. I have heard some people say nitro engines are cooled by the fuel itself, ( ok partly true ) saying - when you lean out the carb the more fuel is being burnt up. Instead of temps going up the temps remain normal. So what they think there saying - increasing the fuel consumption increases the power output then a counter effect happens temps fail to increase beyond a certain point due to the proportionately volume of fuel being burnt up, cooling the engine back to normal temps. One effecting the other and getting equal results thus all things being equal. This is not true. Leaning out the needles causes more air going into the nitro engine than there is fuel. To over lean abruptly shortens the life of your engine. You get more of one thing but you get less of the other.
As just the fuel itself only in certain situations the higher the nitro percentage can turn down engine temperatures. Leaning out a nitro engine using a high nitro percentage greatly stresses that engine. Richen the setting's when using a high nitro percentage. Certain weather conditions or a hot/cold plug change's one would one make rich/lean changes. There are different variables to a good running nitro engine. Weather conditions primarily. You adjust the carb's setting to what weather is available at the moment.
When you said - "even bashing a nitro model you need piston/sleeve changed regularly enough" I have to reply on that. A good maintained nitro engine can last a very long time. Take care of one and it can last you 5 gallons or more. That's a long time of nitro screaming reving rpm fun ! By that time I've seen owners want a different kind of nitro rc well before it's even worn out. I know this is a 1/5 forum so bear with me 1/5 scale readers.
So let's change it up lets say there have been engine's like Hpi's little nitro sized gas engine. Let's say all the models that are nitro models had gas engine's in them. What would people think in the Rc world if news broke out of a new engine called the "Nitro Engine". Smaller displacement than a gas engine, lighter than the gas engine. Gas engine 12,000 to 15,000 + Rpm the new Nitro Engine 30,000 - 40,000 + plus Rpm 2.5 times more Rpm and torque just about the same. Nitro cars will now be faster, lighter and sound better. A new type of engine that will change Rc forever. Can you imagine the excitement. People would go crazy over nitro. Again it comes down to the fuel between what these two engines take, that makes the big difference. Alert ! do you hear me 1/5 scale companies make a 1/5 scale nitro sized engine. At least one company make one. A nitro engine that mounts just like a gas engine. Goes into any 1/5 scale. Now that would be kick ass !!!! You would go thru a gallon of nitro like nothing but it sure would be fun !!! But to be honest that would be dangerous. The gas rpm limits are right on and dont need to be any higher than they need to be with a nitro engine in place. 1/5 scale are fast enough any faster and that can be very dangerous. Good idea, but safety wise not good idea. On to more nitro talk. Sadly though nitro in today's times would be more of a headline than anything else. Point of this is nitro has been over looked over the years.
I grew up on nitro in fact my screen name wasn't going to be "Elven Wizard" it was first going to be "Nitro King". At the time nicad battery technology good but not enough, nitro you can have solid power 8 - 15+ minutes plus enjoying the sound and nitro smoke. People wanted nitro and were willing to take the risks. In fact then when you go into a hobby shop usually you'd see the shelf stock of nitro rc fuel empty. Fast forward years many years nitro now has had a bad rap. There's a number of factors that attribute to this. Things I hear and read are hard to start, finicky, hard to tune, expensive, messy, loud and etc. The messy part wasn't even a issue then, people just dealed with it. As for noise I do understand the noise part of nitro. Open land is being bought out and less and less of it is available. In fact in the early 80's to 90's to even very early 2000 a group of us guys would run just nitro on open land bash spots in San Diego. Noise was never a problem then. Open land galore. I can honestly say now every spot we used to run on is all land developed. Either a freeway is thru it or housing development. People who want nitro go to electric neighborhood's don't want noisy nitro Rc's running around the streets, especially when people are sleeping in the morning weekend's from a hard work week. That's another reason why people are going to electric. If you were in Nitro in the Rc10 gt, Losi NXT years those or the even the nitro monster truck revolution starting with the Tmaxx that time of nitro was one of the best.
In today's times the Rc world is in a complete transition. Remember model kits. There still out there but not like they used to be. Mostly RTR rc's. Car's today have 100,000 mile spark plugs ( so they say ) 15,000 miles oil changes. Used to be you can work on your car. Same with Rc. Today's technology is of "ease of use" metality. Buy it, turn it on and use it. No in between. Go into a hobby shop and you see on the glass counter tops electric rc's used to be nitro rc's on there. Hear the conversations from people talking about rc's. Not just the newbies but the veteran rc'er's too. Ease drop a little. It's ok. Occasionally the word nitro comes up and is quickly dismissed. There attitudes about nitro become evident. With nitro comes up the words "hard" or " there hard to tune" or "nitro fuel is expensive". People don't want that. People want "easy" today. I sometimes can't blame them, but this new generation of people coming into Rc really don't know what there missing not experiencing nitro. Alot of of it is hearsay. Nitro myths abound. People hear people saying negatives about nitro then they themselves get turn off from nitro. Is nitro the past ?
No but, I have to say it not only has stalled but has diminished and rc manufactures know this. There really hasn't been a totally new nitro 4x4 truck or news of one coming out. A revised tmaxx /revo years ago. As of now XXl, Savage, MGT is still around and have been revised. That's about it. There needs to be something new. I just think the market direction is toward electric. New people who should of went to nitro have now went to the electric side of the spectrum. Short Course truck craze is a boom. That side of electric has pulled them in. Hpi is trying to fill this increasingly large gap between nitro and electric with this new little gas engine with different models. Other rc companies are trying other methods. Also another hit nitro takes is. People get discouraged real fast when a problem arises. To someone new Nitro can sound complicated and fearful. Kids who got nitro from there parent's don't have money to spend on parts or service. People need help in this, they just don't know. I don't want to name's but some not all hobby shops take advantage of new people in rc. One charges $70 for a re tune. For a engine rebuild they charge more than you would just buying the engine new. Come on what a rip off ! This is another reason why people get out of nitro or rc all together. Rc companies have tried to make nitro more appealing by making it more user friendly, ease of use. Putting on ez start systems, better tuning carbs etc. Traxxas started this early. Nitro it's is still a blast, it's fun and it's awesome ! So now to 1/5. Where does 1/5 fit in ? Even though there is a 1/5 scale explosion it's still small compared to the electric world, dispite advancements in electric with lipo and brushless. Nice thing is 1/5 is more affordable than ever. Alot more models out.
On to other things. Weight distribution 1/5 scale - good , Hpi small gas engine better, nitro best. 1/5 scale newest buggys have got better than years ago 1/5 scale's. When I pick up a 1/5 scale I feel the bulk of the weight of the car from the engine. When I pick up a nitro I feel the chassis / components and the rest of the car. The weight of a nitro engine is nicely distributed throughout the chassis were as it's almost inconsistent throughout which creates less stress on the suspension producing a better handling rc. On the Losi 5ivet the center of mass is spread from the engine thru out point to point of the chassis. The design of the Losi isn't like the older 1/5 scale rc chassis were the engine is the single point of weight. This design makes the 5ivet longer than usual for a perfect uniform distribution of weight. Hence why it jumps nice and level like the Losi XXL. Weight has been the problem. Broken parts from bad jumping design dynamics of 1/5 scale of old. Losi has figured to build the chassis around the engine. I saw the Losi 5ivet at the RCX show jump off wooden platforms going in circle slamming all fours onto the concrete sometimes throttle on, over and over and over again. Nice level jumps, no gear grinding. One tough well designed truck. years ago driving a older 1/5 generation this would of been abusive to it. Ok to move on, so as for the little Hpi gas engine. If and when it comes out. If it works out, it does fit into today's times. People want ease of use and long term affordability. Gas is way cheaper than nitro. Just like people people want the car with the best gas mileage. Nitro fuel has went up. A gallon of nitro fuel can cost between $25 - $40. Most people don't want to spend that kind of money on fuel. People today want something that give's the most for there money. It just won't match nitro's performance. I think it might be good for the Hpi Xl truck and maybe Apache. I just don't think it's going to get this WOW factor that people might expect. Longer run times, gas is cheaper and easier to start are valid selling points. I myself would like one when and if it comes out. The picture of the 5sc with talk of that gas engine in it might be a stretch for a 1/5 unless they make a light version of the 5sc. I can type more, but I have to go and get good seats at the theater I want to see "Hit and Run".
So there ya go,
The end

nitro



.26 Picco



vs

Hpi's little gas engine





vs

1/5

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF7FIvZZ-d0[/youtube]



Whatever works for you. Or how about all.

Foxy

My new favorite RCU screenshot...



On topic, I can't understand what HPI is hoping to gain by this 1/8th gas engine thing, it's never gonna fly. You can quote me on that.

elven wizard

Thanks Foxy. Will see if and when Hpi comes out with this new engine. I'm sure they'll be alot of comparison tests between this little engine and nitro

Twin_Flyer

My Feedback: (4)

Well, if it works, the cost to run it is one main think. $25-30 a gallon glow fuel vs. $4 for gas.

I think there will be less stress on the drive train with the gas engine vs. the nitro one. What they do with gearing will be interesting due the different power levels of the two engines. gas should run longer on the same amount of fuel, always a plus!

For those that want all out performance, nitro should have the edge but we will see.

I'm slowing going to gas powered planes, and would love to add gas powered cars/trucks to my collection!

It's also nice to see a vehicle labeled as 'gas' that actually RUNS on gas, not nitro!!

Bill S.

Foxy

I think the extremely narrow powerband of such a small gas engine will make it very limited in application. I guess it depends what it revs to, do we have that info yet? 4 speed anyone? lol

elven wizard

Both powerful rc's

A very Powerful nitro and a very powerful gas

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OiYnkvzFjA[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f14eHbLvGg[/youtube]


For some coming out of nitro, gas is a relief. I like both ya gotta have both.


4 speed foxy whooooouuu some won't like to adjust a 4 speed. I know what your saying it's in the gearing at this point.

Anthoop

I was thinking more along the lines of an exhaust power valve.....the crank sensor and the electronics are already there...let us change the exhaust timing pertaining to (at least) rpm and we will see an increase in useable power for all of these two stroke engines. Wishful thinking eh?

To Elven...as always a good post..hard reading but good.

phmaximus

hey a engine that the rbinnovations supercharger will actially work on

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

I'm thinking the same thing. Gasoline burning engines also run a lot hotter than nitro engines, proper cooling will be difficult without a fan, especially under the body. Something like this would better be suited for a two speed or three speed model. Then again, Mac made a fantastic 6cc gas burning engine for Compagnucci, which is comparable in power to a slightly smaller nitro.

Either way, I highly doubt this engine will ever make it to production, and if it does, it will be a very expensive flop. Last I heard, the project was shelved.

savagecommander

a gas engine this small would have no point. pound for pound a nitro of the same size would have more power. not to mention good luck finding an affordable ignition small enough.

proanti1

My Feedback: (2)

Ignition is not the problem, NGH has a 9cc gasoline burning engine which, apparently, runs great. It's also $165.

dmzamora

Apparently, the NHG GT9 uses an RCEXL ignition system.

There are some videos of this engine on YT, and it seems to have good idle, acceleration and a surprisingly wide rpm range, considering that it's an airplane engine.

splcrazy

when is that new hpi gas engine savage coming out ? i was gonna buy another savage but ill wait for that gas model

Foxy

How about 'never'. You heard it here first folks.

Mudgy

So is it 50:1 oil mix? If there's a narrow power band, surely that's useable by boat guys? (with the right pipe of course)
This would be a leap forward by the emissions police?
Foxy are you a "doubting Thomas"?

This motor surely has use in some applications.

Whether HPI sees the ROI or not is the REAL question.

The only issue I see is an ignition system that can keep up with the hi revs. After market Magneto, anyone?

One that won't stuff up radio contact?[&:]

Foxy

I'm usually very positive about innovations, but in this case, I'm a doubting Thomas, a doubting John and a doubting Bob all in one.

Even if it is usable (which will be surprising), I don't see it being more than a flash in the pan. The gas engine in large scale cars has been around for AEONS (upon which this thing is clearly based). If it were so easy to scale it down (while maintaining performance similar to that of a nitro engine the same size) it would have been done by now. There is no 'new' technology here that I can see which would make me think that the difficulties that others have encountered have been overcome, nor do I think that HPI's engineering team have the expertise to reinvent the wheel and make it better than the original. Furthermore, nitromethane (actually let's say 'top fuel' engines), develop MUCH more power cc for cc. I just don't see where it's gonna compete.

I have a nasty feeling HPI has already realised this is a waste of time and money and quietly canned it. The gas burning petrol engine is reaching the end of its life in all applications. I think even HPI must realise (as you said), that the lifecycle of this kind of thing is not going to give them the ROI they need to justify it.

Now that hydrogen fuel cell based stuff is 'ready for market' (lest we forget, Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the entire universe), I can't see gas engines lasting much longer (nor many other oil derived fuels), as we will definitely run out of oil one day, there is a finite amount of it on planet Earth. We will never run out of hydrogen. Ever. So, what would be the point of wasting a dwindling resource? I think the powers that be will start to realise this soon, and also the arabs will realise that their future is not in car fuels and stop blocking the development of alternative sources (because if they continue to ensure that everybody burns petrol, they will be ensuring that their livelihood does not last more than a couple more generations).

If it does come out, it won't be comparable to a nitro, it'll just be a slower, cheaper alternative which runs on cheaper fuel and is easier to tune and start, and if that's how it's marketed, it might do ok.

As always though, I'm happy to be wrong. No matter how good it is in the end, it isn't going to stop me focusing on brushless at all scales.

mooman007uk

time to chime

first up hydrocarbons will be with us and the main source of energy for another 2, possibly 3, generations..there is still oodles of oil out there...remember most wells only yield 30% or so of their reserve...as technology advances more previously unreachable/unextractable oil will be recovered...remember 25yrs ago they were saying only 50 yrs left...now they reckon over 120yrs at current consumption rates of recoverable oil...it's when it becomes too unaffordable..that's when we'll be switching to alternatives...and at the mo hydrogen is not economical as it takes so much energy to split the H from O2...when they can do it economically then i agree that H will eventually be the planets energy source. so all that said i'd have to say that hpi aren't really thinking that gasoline is now on it's way out so will stop development on anything gas...gas engines will outlive everyone on this forum.

so I'm still not sure this hpi project has been shelved, and also i don't think they are astute enough, judging by the release of the pathetic savage 5t nitro then flux garbage, to realize a flop when they have one.

I'm all for the small gasser...i'm not sure why everyone seems to think it'll be gutless ...and simple inductive ignitions will handle 30k no problem. nitro gives 2.3 x more power than gas, pound for pound...rc's run only 30% max usually the rest is methanol and oil...methanol is 20% more powerful than gas so pound for pound you have about twice the btu energy than that of gas...now factor in the 8cc capacity...roughly twice that of most nitro engines and voila you have similar power output...in theory with extra cc comes torque so even though it may not rev to 35000 like a nitro it can be geared to give the same performance, however, seeing as our 23cc+ engines can turn 22k i don't think 30k from a smaller engine is unobtainable...i'm a believer in the concept mostly because it's already been done, but done properly with a separate cylinder and head[link]http://www.mecoa.com/compagnucci/index.htm[/link] HPI trying to converting an old nitro aero engine to gas may not be the best way to do it but hopefully we shall see soon.

my 2 cents...soon i'll have no cents left ..lol

Foxy

We have about 8 generations worth left by most accounts (200 years), we are halfway through the world's reserves in just 175 years and consumption is still increasing. Just cos there's enough now, doesn't mean we should use it all. Once its gone, it's gone (unless you wanna wait a few million years for the earth to make us some more). This planet has been around for BILLIONS of generations, yet we've managed to consume half the oil in just 7!! Unless we find a way to speed up the process that creates oil (millions of years of pressure and heat on decomposing animal and vegetable matter), the future of mankind is going to curse us for eternity for wasting SO MUCH one of the worlds most precious and time consuming to create resources, to get us from a to b, when there are plenty of renewable alternatives. We really are doing a terrible thing continuing to burn crude oil extremely INEFFICIENTLY in combustion engines, it's a terrible waste. I think people are starting to realise this and we may see the death of gasoline engines sooner than you think. Combined with the effect of emissions, it's a no-brainer, we gotta stop and soon.

savagecommander

i pray i live long enough to see everybody getting rich off oil go broke. If i had enough space I'd be electric now. hydrogen works for me too- there was a guy who drove across the country on water- and then he died- and mysteriously so did his idea.

splcrazy

what about the fuel vaporizer , the men in black had one in their car , then somehow that car was sold to the general public , the couple who bought it was amazed that it was using hardly any fuel for the distance they travelled , went to the petrol station to fill up and the pumped stopped short , they went public with the car in the papers and stuff , then had mystery men in black suits one day poking around in the engine bay and removed the device , and the car returned back to using heaps of fuel.