loopino

Hi there!

Quite exactly four years ago I ordered and paid for a pair of retracts for my 1/5 scale bearcat from robinairerc aka Lee Robinson. I think he is well knows here as I read in several discussions. After 3 and a half years of waiting and mailing, the contact now ended completely half year ago. He does not answer to E-Mails or PNs.

Is there somebody else who is waiting for his retracts and who got nothing but warm words yet? Does somebody have a possible explaination?

@Lee: You are invited to answer.

Best regards,

Lars

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

I did, in fact, respond to his email, and although I have been delayed, I have ALWAYS responded to people. I am in the process of making 2 sets of parts for a new design for the Bearcat. It is closer to the original Grumman system, 'tho not "museum" scale. I have had a great deal of health problems, along with financial problems, which has kept me from my little business. But lately things have improved and I am able to put a limited amount of time in the shop. But the prognosis is good that I will be able to spend almost full time there later this month. Happily, Kay has also seen some improvement in her migraines, and has adjusted well to her legal blindness from Mac. Degeneration. Lee

LA7flier

My Feedback: (1)

without casting dispersion, the lesson here is NEVER, NEVER pay for something up front

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

To all out there. I did, in fact, respond to this some time back. Please see my further reply on the robinaire 60 site. My wife and I have gone through hell for the past 5 years, and I did my best. I have 6 backorders that were never filled, but they will be! I may get clearance to resume an almost full schedule in the shop soon. Will see the Dr. next month, but am working about 1/3 time now, principally trying to clean up the shop, and arranging things in a better layout. If anyone sends me an email they WILL get a response. I've done this for years, and many of my customers will attest to this. Lee

SunnyFlyer09

After 3 years, just give him his money back. No excuses.

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

Try telling that to Robart or Century Jet or any custom shop! When I first started making retracts, around 1978, I actually sent a cuple of retract systems out and simply included an invoice. How much do you think I got back??? NOTHING!! One guy as much as said "Tough S***t" !! That's why I and every other custom builder that I know of, requires the payment up front. I know others besides myself have gotten in trouble with customers, and some simply disappeared from sight! I have ALWAYS been available and have NEVER had an unlisted phone number. I wish I could just return money, but it is impossible. We have so many med and other expenses that with only Soc. Sev. coming in at the moment (we haven't had a cost of living raise in 2 years, and we will not get one next year). But, as I know you all know, the damned living expenses, even without med stuff, has gone through the roof! I'm working toward getting ALL these backlogs cleared up this year. There is just nothing else I can do, and it really hurts! Lee Robinson W. Palm Beach, FL

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

personally I feel bad for all involved , no ones wishes any duress on your current situation but as a total stranger reading your post this is what it really says and I am sorry but its true .
" I used your money in advance , did not provide you with the servace you contracted with me in a gentelmans agreements .
Now totally unrelated to your trust in me and faith that i would fulfill my end in a reasonable amount of time , I experienced a medical problem that delayed my ability to fulfill the order .
I cant give you back your funds paid in advance because i dont have them set aside for componant parts ect needed to make the retracts.
Unfortunitoy I did not have the decipline to keep my business funds on unfulfilled orders separate from funds needed for emergencies .
As a result my bills and unfortunitle turn of events has to be shared by you until I can once run my shop and fulfill my orders .
Good solution (use the real interest rate )
If this is in agreement to you , I will look at the going interest rate for useing your money from the day I received it to the day I ship (hopefully the next 60 days and I will return a discount at the avg rate per year to borrow .
Example three years , at a rate of prime avg 6% per year on the total cost of the retracts
Sorry again , I hope you find this compensation fair .

Shrky

Lee,

I can sympathize with Lars. I have no patients when it comes to ordering things I want them NOW! It's usually because I don't order things until just before I need them. As far as giving the money back I understand that there are just times that the money was spent with every intent of providing the service and the rug gets pulled out from under you. I myself have had a very hard last couple of years and like you things are starting to look up again. I'm glad to hear that your health is recovering and I hope your wife continues to do better.

Lars,

Like I said I sympathize with your plight, after 4 years I would have been pretty tight myself. However while I never have purchased any of Lee's retracts I've heard his name ever since I started flying R/C 15 years ago and have never heard anyone say anything but good things about both the quality of his products and his service. Unfortunately you both got caught in the perfect storm. A lot of people have been hit hard in this country the last couple of years and add in health issues that no one ever expects and I'd be inclined to cut Lee a little slack.

Scott

jeff naul

My Feedback: (16)

I always said that I would stay out of these type of discussions, but you can't use the American economy as an excuse. It's a world wide economy that has struggled for the last three or so years. We Americans want to say poor us but look at China and Japans un-employment numbers, they dwarf us. and look at how much we buy from China, just in the model world. On top of that I read a statistic the other night, for every ten thousand Japanese workers ther are 300 robots, for every ten thousand American workers their are 86 robots. China wasn't far behind yet their uneployment was something like 1 billion to our million. Their census numbers per capita were signifigantly lower than ours. It's a bad deal all around, If you take a mans money you should honor your contract, If you can't then refund him his money you cannot use the economy as an excuse. It is unfortunate of Mr. Robinsons problems but the few dollars in material needed can't be an excuse either. If the physical burdens involved are too much then it is time to throw in the towel. I wish nothing but the best for the good health of Mr. Robinsons family but three years is a little too long to drag an issue like this out.

kram

My Feedback: (7)

Guys:

This has all been hashed and re-hashed many times.

Check this thread from 4+ years ago.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_21...35/key_/tm.htm


Sorry,


mt

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

Try using that logic with Robart or any one else who sells things! When I started doing this custom business some 35 years ago, I started out by assuming the modelers were honest. I sent 3 sets of retracts out without advance payment. I just included an invoice. I NEVER RECEVED A DIME FROM ANY OF THEM!!! From that time on, my customers paid in advance, and always got their orders! No internet then, and it was expensive phone calls or time consuming letters. But I resonded to EVERYONE! I still do. You will find my phone number in the directories, as I have never had an unlisted number. In the last 5 years, with my wifes problems, and mine as well, plus some economic problems, things just fell apart. In the first 30 years,I enjoyed a very good reputation in the modeling world. I didn't do any flashy advertising, but depended almost entirely on word-of-mouth. I never wanted to be another "Robart", but thoroughly enjoyed the challenges of doing something different. I am still struggling, but making some progress. I am working at least half a day in the shop, and am feeling very well, and expect to be spending much more in the very near future. I am working on the 2 Bearcat systems, which have been a great challenge, in trying to be closer to the Grumman original. I expect to have a functional unit completed in about 10 days, maybe sooner. Some of the parts are a real bear to machine on manual equipment, and not being a lottery winner, I can't go out and buy the CNC equipment I sorely desire. I have these 2 Bearcats, 5 60 sized rotators, and a GEEBEE to complete to be completely caught up. I'm sending updates to the Bearcat boys today, and to all the others later this week when I can review what I have to do there. I have about 75% of the parts done for the rotators, and so not much left to do. Incidentally, I shipped about 25 sets of the rotators, with some people buying a second set, and one custmer, after receiving his first, ordered two more! I hope I can get everything back on track as I did for the first 30 years. I can only apologize to all my customers, as I certainly didn't ask for or plan the problems we had. But, enough of this, I have to get back to the shop. Lee Robinson ROBINAIRE

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

Kram, did you not receive your gear? Of course you did! So slectively picking up this particular thread point serves to only muddy the waters! I will continue to do the best I can to get back to a sustainable schedule, even if it means limiting the number of orders I can handle. As I said in the previous post a few minutes ago, back to the shop. OOPS 12:04 & lunch! Lee Robinson

loopino

Good morning Lee and hello to all the others!

Lee, nearly four and a half years is a long time. I think I am very patient. Sometimes you e-mailed every week. Sometimes I did not hear anything for half a year. But as I wrote someday: Don´t spend too much time explaining why you don´t have the time to finish your work!

I know you had a lot of problems. The injury of your back, the problems with Kay´s eyes, then the lathe broke down and two times you lost all your customers E-Mail Adresses. I really never had any doubt that this all was true. And I still hope that someday my retracts might arrive. (btw: Please ask me about my actual adress before you send them!)

Nevertheless nearly five years is an unforeseeable period of time for someone who has paid for something that should have arrived some months later.

Lee, I´m curious about how it continues.

Best regards, Lars

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

Lars; I am so glad you sent this!! I recently changed my server, and it has been a mess!I can only partially use it, but enough to get to rcu. I have been unable to transfer my address books and some other important data, including emails! On top of that, my neighbor passed away suddenly about 3 weeks ago, and I have been helping his wife with many tasks, such as inventorying his little workshop and caring for the house. It is very sad, as he was a good friend and fellow "tinkerer", 'tho not a modeler. Battled heart and diabetic problems for about 10 years and was 72, some 13 years younger than me. Please send me your email address so I can get it into a new mailbox. I have had a video waiting to send you for at least 2 weeks!! Incidentally, I do not resent your comments, as they are all true But you only did not get to me because of the system fiasco, and I have NEVER been unavailable to ANYBODY in the now 36 years I have done this. The last 5 or 6 years have been disaterous for us, but I continue to try to respond to anyone! As soon as I receive your address, I'll send the video. I slowed it down a bit too much, but it at least shows it moving!! For all reading this, the new email, temporarily (until my new robinaire boxes are set up) is [email protected] Lee

loopino

I don´t know if i am waiting for 5 years now or for 6 years...

alanc

Your more patient than me mate!!

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

Hello Alan and Lars. Lars has indeed been far above and beyond in patience. His gear is almost ready for final assembly, and has been that way for some time. I seem to manage to let things gang up on me, and now I'm the "one-armed bandit"! I fell about 6 weeks ago and trashed the rotator cuff in my right shoulder and right when I had torn down my lathe to replace the headstock bearings, and dismantled the quill assembly from my mill for some TLC, cleaning and relubing the bearings. Happily they are in good condition. I had to wait for help in reassembling the quill, as it was too heavy for me to remount with only one hand. I got a neighbor to provide me an extra "hand". Then when I got the bearings for the lathe, my son drove down to give he a hand on that and also stop a leak around a living roomwindow. That turned out to be a complete sill replacement as it had disintegrated! He lives about 60 miles north of me. I am undergoing therapy to get my shoulder working, and the Dr. thinks it will respond without surgery. But it will be about another 3 or 4 weeks until that can be determined, probably with another MRI. I can do anything that only requires bending at the elbow, but if I try to move the upper arm, it lets me know in no uncertain terms that it's a NONO! But I'm optomistic that it will come along,and in the meantime I'm able to use the lathe with one arm, and even some mill work. So I'm spending as much time in the shop as I can. Right now, I have to stop this typing, as my upper arm is killing me! So I'm taking a rather strong pain pill and hitting the sack. I haven't done much on Sundays, since my dear "spice" threatened to feed me to the gators!!! I will try to keep people informed on a more regular basis. Oh yes, and I'm rebuilding my operating system and program library since a major software glitch about wiped me out. So I'm getting my address book rebuilt and trying to get everything working again. Lee

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

Lee, what about the $425.00 that I paid you some time ago,ie, 3 + years ago ? I have been more than patient waiting on my refund that you said you would give me back , but oddly you never paid it . I think you would have to agree. I like you, have been going through things, surgery being one of them recently. I just want my money back,plain and simple. Is that too much to ask? I dont think so.
John

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

John, itis definitely NOT too much to ask. It drives me up the wall trying to come up with an answer. I'll contact you directly with an arrangement I think I can handle. I've tried to sell my big Atlas MX-50, but people want me to "give" it away, which would NOT solve my problems. I'm so sorry that this has happened, and it has really hurt. For the benefit of those also reading this, I have ALWAYS been accessible, as you can testify, as I have never had an unlisted phone number. and have never "disappeared into the woodwork"!! It is especially hurtful because of the kindness you have shown Kay in the past. I'll get back to you directly probably Wednesday. Is your home email still the same? You can respond to me at [email protected]. I'm still rebuilding my system after this last debacle with comcast. Lee

loopino

Hi Lee!

If it wasn´t some thousand miles I would come over to help you. But it is too far away for me.

For me you don´t have to type so much. Especially if it stresses your arm. I keep on waiting.

Was it Jonny Logan who sung "What´s another year?..."

Robinaire

My Feedback: (23)

Gee It wouldn't be too hard. Try the backstroke!!! It would be marvelous if I could meet more of my customers. Back in the late 70s & early 80s, when I exhibited at Toledo Weak Signals affair. I had a number of guys come by the booth, and it was very enjoyable! Right now, I'm waiting for the parts co. to get back to me on a new lead screw and split nut for the carriage feed on the lathe! I just got it back together from another problem, and when I started to turn a part, it fed part way and the carriage just stopped!
OK, enouugh of my yakking, and back to the parts guys! But the arm is just a bit better. Lee

alanc

you come across as a nice guy, who has had his share of problems, but sorry, you should not be in business, to do this to clients is damned bad, if you have the part machined parts, and you have the drawings for the parts, get them subbed out, you dont have to make the series of retracts you puport to design to make money,engineering shops in the states must be desparate for work, go and knock on a door, i am in high presicion engineering, i know what i am on about, we get customers orders, and if we cannot do them at the appointed time, we simply subb them out to trusted suppliers, and put a small mark up on them, sorry, but this cannot, and should not carry on, how you have not had an errant client knocking on your door, i do not know,do the decentthing, stop putting excuses on forums, andSORT IT OUT!!! sorry, but someone had to say it

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Alan,
There are lots of places that are desperate for work here. The problem is, none of them are willing to do small runs of parts, or willing to price them that a hobbyist would purhase them at! You either do the parts yourself, or price yourself out of business by outsourcing them!
I have been searching for suppliers for the machined components of my F14 kit for over 2 years! The smallest part i have been quoeted at $150 each! This part is only 1/4" thick and 1/2"x1.5". My 3D cut program shows it at just under an hour of machine time for both sides using a 1/8" bit, and the materials is about $100 for enough to do 20-30 of them.
The largest part (upper strut leg) has been quoted as high as $3000 each! It is not easy finding a company here in the states that does quality work for reasonable pricing. I have even found a vendor that offers F14 landing gear in a smaller size. After literally begging, they didnt want the work either!

alanc

Hmm i can apreciate this, then, there is another aproach, model engineering groups are full of guys who have lathes and mills, many are retired machinists, due to the nature of the jobs we do, we cannot use such groups, but for the cottage industry engineering designer, these guys can be a godsend, i gave several lectures on manual lathe machining over a few years, and visited several home shops, in several, i was staggered at the amount of gear they had, if this gentleman seriously wants to make his errant customers happy, and fulfill their paid for missing orders, then he will try harder, all i see here are long rambling statements that tug at the heartstrings, i dont see any firm commitments to his customers

F4u5

My Feedback: (81)

I didn't want to really post here, but i did have a run-in with Lee a few (4-5) years back. I finally got the gear (D.520 from German plans), but they were unuseable as deleivered. Angles wrong and would not fit the wing. I provided the gear drawings from the German plans the plane was built from. The angles sis not even match what the plans had on them. Thus, I don't know if another plan base was used, or what happened. Anyway, Alan has posted a legitimate, yet professional reply here, without flaming, and I must agree with what he is saying. It is a fine post to the situation. Even back then I was hearing the same excuses (sickness, computer, tools, materials), that I am still seeing here today. Honestly, I think Lee menas well, but for what ever reason, can no longer meet expectations promised.

Jeff