Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

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10-04-2012, 09:35 AM

#101

luckymacy

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Thanks for the clarification. Is there a contra drive system that's suited to the 8S setup? Also, now that you've flown the Vanquish, wooden fuse Monolog and MythoS 125E, do you have a clear preference? I like the looks of the mythoS hands down best but the power plant options and wing loading to accomodate larger battery packs seem to favor the Vanquish and Monolog as far as flexibility. I think they are even a little cheaper to boot but that's the over riding factor either. There isn't one.

Also, I know the contra drive is just a nice to have and it won't drive any decision for me as I know when and how to use the rudder, LOL, but I think it looks cool and that's enough for it to be an input. I like to try new stuff if it makes some sense. :-)

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10-05-2012, 02:39 AM

#102

talk the torque

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Hi Arch

Have you flown the 2m Mythos as yet? I am still struggling a bit with my Wind S Pro with tight or slow KE flight in the new F-schedule. I have the balsa wings and I dont have any wing fences on but to those who I have spoken to say that you can feel the difference in power required once fitting all the wing fences. By the looks of it the Mythos fuze looks the same as the Wind S Pro but it has a new canopy which has the caniliser and also the canopy bubble is shifted fwd. Will it be worth fitting a Mythos canopy on my Wind S Pro for better KE efficiency. I dont have that much experience with canilisers but most seem to say it makes a big difference in KE flight.

Any help please
Cheers
TtT

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10-05-2012, 04:00 AM

#103

rcpattern

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

TtT,

Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to fly the 2m Mytho. I did fly my Winds with the stab fences and wing fences and here are my observations. I loved the stab fences. They really stabalized the plane in a crosswind. It flew well in crosswinds before, but with the fences it really locked in. I did NOT like the wing fences. I didn't like them, for exactly the reason you may like them. They made the plane fly very well at slow speeds, but what I noticed was that it really limited the stability of the plane to fly faster, especially in a cross wind. From talking to a few guys in the hobby I really respect, and a few aerospace engineers here at the Naval base where I work, they said it was because the fences were in front of the center of pressure of the plane, therefore making it less stable in yaw, which became more noticeable at higher speeds. They did make the plane very solid feeling, with a much improved rudder at lower speeds. I do not have a great deal of experience with planes with canilisers, but on the planes that it helps, it definitely seems to make a big difference. I am sure it has some to do with the new wing shape as well, but even the Mytho S 125 is much happier at slower speeds than my winds ever were, and the rudder authority is incredible. That is with the 125 without the wing fences, so the caniliser much be helping some in this area.

Arch

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10-05-2012, 01:14 PM

#104

talk the torque

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Thanks Arch

Thats exactly the info I'm looking for. I think my pattern speed is more medium than slow these days but especially for the rolling figure 8 and KE loop I find the plane buffets at higher rudder input areas and my KE loop and rolling 8 has to be slighty bigger than my other maneuvers to manage them better. Although it doesnt help that some of our comps are at 5500' in altitude. Quite interesting what you say about the fwd centre of pressure that the fences produce. I have always felt that the wide undercarriage makes the plane feel similar to that and, to me, the plane feels more rwd CG or twitchy in yaw compared to pitch. For this I was thinking of the stab fences for the reason of getting some vertical area out at the back, glad to hear you say you find it helps. I was hoping the caniliser would help in KE more efficiently than the fences acting as draggy low aspect ratio SFG's. I'm out of weight and dont want to have to up the size of my Lipos for the extra drag created.

Anyone know if the 2m Mythos canopy would fit the Wind S Pro and if it could be bought separately.

Cheers
TtT

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10-05-2012, 01:37 PM

#105

bem

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

TtT,

http://www.sebart.it/download/sebart-pricelist.pdf

(Page 9)

I do not know what might fit from MythoS 2M to Wind S Pro.

/Bo

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10-06-2012, 04:59 AM

#106

talk the torque

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Thanks Bem

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10-06-2012, 11:39 AM

#107

Jeff Pfeifer

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

I just finished up my new MythoS125e from SebArt last night, and flew it for the first time this morning. If anyone is on the fence on buying this plane you need to pull the trigger on this one. The airplane is very well designed and flies extremely well. The plane is just shy of a full 2M pattern plane (approximately 3" short of 2M") so the airplane when flown at pattern distances presents much like a full 2M plane. Here is my setup:

MythoS 125E
Hacker A60-6XS v2
Spektrum H6040 Servos on Ailerons and Rudder
Spektrum H5010 Servos on Elevators
Spektrum AR8000 DSMX Reciever
Hobbywing HV120 ESC with Soft Braking enabled for down-line braking
2- 6S 3300mah Lipo Batteries in parallel to equal 6S 6600mah.
APC 18x12e Wide Propeller (needs a little bigger prop will test a 19x12e next)

With the above setup I was able to fly the entire F3A P-13 Sequence plus about 5 additional practice maneuvers and used 4450mah (67% of the capacity).

The MythoS is a great practice plane for the seasoned pattern flyer, and a great airframe for those who want to compete in pattern without costing as much as some of the higher end pattern planes of today.

For more info on the SebArt MythoS 125E and Hacker Motors check out the following websites:

www.sebart.it
www.sebartrc.com
www.aero-model.com

Special thanks to Horizon Hobby for their support!

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10-10-2012, 09:30 AM

#108

talk the torque

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Very nice. What is the AOW and what is the amp draw with the 6s setup?

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05-24-2013, 06:14 AM

#109

SAB

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Had a few flights on my Mythos 125 now, running 8S 5000 packs with Hacker A60-5S
My main concern is the pull to canopy in KE - both sides. This is usualy indicative of too forward a CG but I've put the CG as far back as I can (about the rearmost position - 225mm from LE) & it still shows. Can't go any further back as my motor is over 100g heavier than the XS motor plus my batteries are heavier (vs. a 6S set-up).
I have replaced the APCe prop & sebart spinner with a PT 20x12 & Falcon carbon spinner saving 85g, even with with the batteries as far back as they can go I need a 10% R-E mix to rid the KE canopy pull which is more than I would wish. I'm carying only slight up elevator trim (2 clicks).
I have not fitted the wing fences or UC fairings, Rudder servo is in the tail.
So what have other Mythos 125 flyers ended up with reagarding CG & the need for KE mixing, thanks.

Steve

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05-27-2013, 03:03 PM

#110

bem

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Hi,

I have the same symptom with my MythoS 125E as You have. I use 8 cells 5000 mAh also but Hacker A60-7XS (480 gram).
I have the wing fences mounted on my plane but not the landing gear fairings.
Someone at rcgroups suggested to be that adding the landing gear fairings may help in right direction with the pull to canopy.
I will lighten my MythoS 125 E:
- lighter wheels (I use not the small Sebart wheels but some other unknown brand but I will try MK blue lightweight wheels)
- lighter prop (APC Electric 19x10 to Falcon 19x12 electric carbon prop or maybe 20x12 if it is available)
- lighter spinner (original Sebart 76 mm spinner to Falcon 75 mm carbon spinner)
- lighter LiPo battery (TopFuel 8 cell 5000 mAh 1036 gram to ThunderPower G8 25C 930 gram)
- remove blue cockpit floor (and paint the inside of canopy with blue metallic Pactra spray)

I have done some weight calculations and 200-250 gram could be saved this way in my case.

I could save more if I change to a lighter ESC then the Jeti/Hacker Mezon that I use now but I think it will remain in the plane for now.
If above will not lighten the front enough for the CG I will add a heavier servo in tail (I have a Futaba 45 gram servo in tail today for rudder but I could change to a 60 gram Futaba servo to get 15 gram in tail (I hate to add lead to any plane).

I have my CG close to 220 mm (I think I ended up at 215 mm) from leading edge where wing and fuselage meet.
I'm unable to get CGany more back.

I will probably add the landing gear fairings also.

That is all I can do in my case to lighten my plane in the nose.
I started with 1% Rudder to Elevator up mix accordingto manual for MythosS 125E but it was not enough for me and I increased to 2% but it was not enough and I have not changed value any more.

/Bo

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05-28-2013, 05:16 AM

#111

SAB

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Bo,

Thanks for the reply,
The mix mentioned in the instructions - 1% up elevator - is in the opposite direction to fix the pull to the canopy - which way did you apply the mix?
I have had other Sebart pattern planes (Angel 30, 50, wind 110) and in all cases I started with the landing gear fairings but subsequently took them off & observed very little difference without them.
Let us know what effect you find if you fit them.

Steve

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05-28-2013, 11:10 PM

#112

bem

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Steve,
From 1% up elevator to 2% down.
I have made first step now to reducing the weight - I removed the cockpit floor and pilot and saved 115 gram.
I painted the inside of canopy with Pactra Metallic blue http://www.testors.com/products/573692
och covered that with some Pactra Indy silver http://www.testors.com/products/573690
Weight of paint was 2 gram.

/Bo

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06-05-2013, 04:40 PM

#113

patternflyer76

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Aircraft	Mythos 125e

Frame	Brand & Model	Grams	Ounces	Pounds	Quanity	5.310936
Horizontal Stab Left	Mythos 125e	97	3.421574	0.213848	1	0.213848
Horizontal Stab Right	Mythos 125e	96	3.3863	0.211644	1	0.211644
Stab Tube	Mythos 125e	5	0.17637	0.011023	1	0.011023
Wing Panel Left	Mythos 125e	326	11.49931	0.718707	1	0.718707
Wing Panel Right	Mythos 125e	322	11.35822	0.709888	1	0.709888
Wing Tube	Mythos 125e	66	2.328081	0.145505	1	0.145505
Fuselage	Mythos 125e	886	31.25273	1.953296	1	1.953296
Cantalizer	Mythos 125e	71	2.504451	0.156528	1	0.156528
Cowl	Mythos 125e	112	3.950684	0.246918	1	0.246918
Canopy	Mythos 125e	131	4.620889	0.288806	1	0.288806
Main Wheel Assembly	Mythos 125e	168	5.926026	0.370377	1	0.370377
Tail Wheel Assembly	Mythos 125e	38	1.340411	0.083776	1	0.083776
LG Farings	Mythos 125e	34	1.199315	0.074957	1	0.074957
Spinner	Mythos 125e	57	2.010616	0.125663	1	0.125663
			0	0	1	0
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			0	0	1	0
			0	0	1	0
		2409	84.97497	5.310936		5.310936
Power System	Brand & Model	Grams	Ounces	Pounds	Quanity	3.6244
370kv 28 Pole	Hacker A60 6SX V2	482	17.00205	1.062628	1	1.062628
110A ESC	Hacker X-Pro 110	89	3.139383	0.196211	1	0.196211
6s6000Mah 65C Lipo	Genisis Pete Series	956	33.72191	2.107619	1	2.107619
20x13 or 15 Prop	APC	117	4.127054	0.257941	1	0.257941
			0	0	1	0
			0	0	1	0
			0	0	1	0
			0	0	1	0
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			0	0	1	0
			0	0	1	0
		1644	57.99039	3.6244		3.6244
Guidence System	Brand & Model	Grams	Ounces	Pounds	Quanity	0.93454
7 Channel Rx	Airtronic RX700	8.8	0.310411	0.019401	1	0.019401
6v 2000mah Rx Battery	Hydrimax	152	5.361642	0.335103	1	0.335103
HD Switch	EMS	19	0.670205	0.041888	1	0.041888
Left Aeleron Servo	Hobbico CS-140	53.3	1.880102	0.117506	1	0.117506
Right Aeleron Servo	Hobbico CS140	53.3	1.880102	0.117506	1	0.117506
Rudder Servo	Hobbico C150	53.5	1.887157	0.117947	1	0.117947
Left Elevator Servo	Hitec HS-5245MG	32	1.128767	0.070548	1	0.070548
Right Elevator Servo	Hitec HS-5245MG	32	1.128767	0.070548	1	0.070548
Throttle Servo	xx	0	0	0	1	0
Flap Servo	xx	0	0	0	1	0
Gear Servo	xx	0	0	0	1	0
Auxiliary Servo	xx	0	0	0	1	0
Extentions 12		8	0.282192	0.017637	5	0.088185
Extentions 24"		12	0.423288	0.026455	3	0.079366
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		423.9	14.95263	0.93454	1	0.93454
		4476.9	157.918	9.869875		9.87

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06-05-2013, 04:45 PM

#114

patternflyer76

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Amps are about 90-100A on full throttle and running around 2000 watts with 20x13 APC and 2200 watts with 20x15 APC 6s 6000mah 65c. Ran the 19x10 and could only get about 1700 watts. with 25c's cound not even get 1100 watts. The Masters routine leaves me about 20% of the battery after the sequence. Last post has all equipment and weight.

Kevin

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06-05-2013, 04:51 PM

#115

patternflyer76

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

It flys great. Rudder was mounted in the rear. No trim or mixing was needed. I did not even have to set up any differential for upline rolling. Everything was just right from the first. No pull or tuck in downlines, no thrust issues on full throttle up lines, no pitching to the belly or canopy on knife edge, no nose drop on reverse cubin 8's for CG. I could not ask for a better set up to get back into AMA Precision Aerobatics. I am really excited to get practicing.

Kevin

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06-06-2013, 01:41 AM

#116

bem

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Hi,

Patternflyer76:
Where exactly do You have center of gravity on Your MythoS 125E?
You did not use the recommended by Sebart"Rudder to Elevator up" mix (full right or left rudder the elevetor go up 1%)?
What do You mean with "with 25c's cound not even get 1100 watts" - what battery was used? I use TopFuel 40C, 8 cells (4 cellx2), 5000 mAh LiPo (1036 gram=35.544 oz) myself but was thinking of change to ThunderPower 25C Pro Lite Plus 4Sx2 5000 mAh (930 gram+connectors 14 gram 944 gram=33.299 oz) - maybe a bad move fronm 40C to 25C?

I have changed prop (and spinner) now on my MythoS 125E.
Falcon 19x12E V2 electric carbon prop (35 gram = 1.234 oz) and Falcon 75 mm electric carbon spinner (19 gram =0.670 oz).
Compare original Sebart white spinner 58 gram =2.046 oz and APC 19x10E 99 gram=3.942 oz I used before.

With new prop I get max RPM 7120, max 78 amp at full throttle and watt is then about 2300 watt on full trottle, 78 amp x 29.6 volt (8x3.7 volt)= 2309 watt.
Compare with APC 19x10E: max RPM 7550, 70 amp and max watt was then about 2000 watt on full throttle, 70 amp x 29.6 volt = 2072 watt.
So I got about 15% more watt on full throttle.

With new prop better force in vertials, and I can use lower throttle on horizontal lines. Quieter in the air with this prop.
But since the new prop draw more current at full throttle one need to be more careful with throttle and not use more throttle then really needed.
Otherwise my 8 cells 5000 mAh do not contain 20% of capacity at landing. It will be a problem on windy days when You need to add little moe throttle in general.

Next step will be to get new lighter 8 cell (4 cells x 2) battery pack, I have tried to get ThunderPower G8 Pro Lite Plus 25C 4S 5000 mAh but so far no luck (none have it in Europe and shipping from US to Europe is not easy to find a company that will do these days beacuse of the shipping regulations on LiPo). That would save another 90 gram.

Weight savings so far is:
- Removed blue canopy floor and pilot: 115 gram
- Lighter spinner: 39 gram
- Lighter prop: 64 gram
- Removed Hacker prop nut with smaller threads inside infront end(not needed since I do not use a spinner that have center screw): 10 gram
TOTAL: 228 gram = 8.042 oz

If I can get the above battery it will be 90 gram more savings for a total of 318 gram=11.217 oz weight savings.

/Bo

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06-06-2013, 02:19 AM

#117

patternflyer76

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Bem:

It was a Thunderpower 6s Pro Lite 25c 5000mah and I could only get about 1100 watts out of it with the 19x10 APC. With the 20x13 I could get about 1700 watts. When I switched to the 65c batteries, which are 6s 6000mah It jumped the same set up to 2000 watts. I guess it can pull more power freely instead of restricted. With the 25c it was trying to suck a golf ball through a water hose, and with the 65 c it’s like sucking a pea through the water hose. Just my observations. With the 20x15 I get 2300 watts. Yes, on windy days I am pushing the 20%.... As for the CG, I am balancing exactly behind the holes that are in the wing close to the fuse sides. I assume they were there to glue the sleeve tube into the wing before covering. There is one on top and bottom in the same location.

Kevin

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06-06-2013, 03:13 AM

#118

bem

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Kevin,
Thanks for the answer.

Was it ThunderPower 25C G6 or G8 generation You used?
The G8 Pro Lite Plus 25C 5000 mAh packs are rated for max 125 amp continous.

Since I'm at lower amp (78 amp max at full throttle) maybe the G8 Pro Lite Plus 25C (4 cells x 2 in my case) 5000 mAh would do OK?
Some top F3A flyers use ThunderPower 25C 5S x 2 5000 mAh packs so ThunderPower25C packscan not be that bad then.

/Bo

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06-06-2013, 04:44 AM

#119

bem

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Quote:

ORIGINAL: patternflyer76

As for the CG, I am balancing exactly behind the holes that are in the wing close to the fuse sides. I assume they were there to glue the sleeve tube into the wing before covering. There is one on top and bottom in the same location.

Kevin

Hi,
I checkedCenter of Gravity today, after the 228 gram weight savings in front part of my MythoS 125E, and it was now 222 mm behindleading edge where wing and fuselage meet.
Sebart recommend in assembly manual for MythoS 125E:

225 mm for no wind condition
220 mm fornormal condition
215 mm for windy condition

My CG was now 222 mm (see picture below). And I think my plane flies good with that, at least in no wind conditions.

I checked where the holes in the wing are that You refer to and the rear edge of that hole is 200 mm behind leading edge (see picture below).
So maybe try to move CG little back and see if You like it.
The rear edge of carbon tube hole in fuselage is about 215 mm from leading edge.

/Bo

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06-06-2013, 06:37 AM

#120

SAB

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Kevin,

How did you measure your CG ? - was it "ready to Fly"? - as Bo says your CG equates to 200mm from wing LE which is is much further forward than the recommended 215 - 225mm What's more you have no KE coupling !!
I have played with the CG - currently around 220mm & had it back as far as 225mm & still had a fairly severe KE Pull to the canopy (usually indicative of a Forward CG). My Mythos is 8S & a little heavier than yours but not by much (4610g with lightest battery) so I don't think this is a significant factor. I tried the UC fairings, they didn't effect the coupling at all, next I will try the wing SFG's

Steve

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06-06-2013, 07:39 AM

#121

patternflyer76

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Steve:

Yes, it was balanced ready to fly. I do not think it is your CG causing the problem, at least from my experience with mine. I would start looking at the wing incidence. I know they are not adjustable, but the anti-rotation pens could be off somewhat from one to the next model. When I balanced it with the 5000 Mah pack my CG was around the 210-220mm mark from LE area and it flew the same as it does now with it just behind the circles, that is when it comes to the pitching toward canopy in KE. The only difference I noticed was the aft wanted to hang down on landings. The aft also flew a little down when the throttle was at mid-range on strait and level flight across the field, but not bad.

Kevin

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06-06-2013, 08:21 AM

#122

SAB

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

Kevin,

Thanks, yes I wish the wing incidence was adjustable, I need more positive as flying straight & level the tail hangs a little low.
CG does have some effect on the pull to canopy as when I tried a more forward CG the pull was worse but I agree changing CG is not the solution.
The pocket the wing root fits into makes adjusting wing incidence a pain, can be done but a fair amount of work required to achieve it
I may try dropping the ailerons a couple of mm to simulate increased wing incidence.

Steve

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06-06-2013, 03:06 PM

#123

patternflyer76

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

bem:

They were the G6.

Kevin

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06-06-2013, 03:11 PM

#124

patternflyer76

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

<xml><o

fficedocumentsettings><o:allowpng></o:allowpng></o

fficedocumentsettings></xml>

<xml><officedocumentsettings><o:allowpng></o:allowpng></officedocumentsettings></xml>Steve:

I was thinking that my Mythos has the wheel fairings and pants. This would create enough drag to counter your problem. Maybe that’s it. The pants and fairings do create drag which would be like giving it positive incidence, thus countering the pitch to the canopy during KE. How are your down lines????? Does it pull to the canopy as well in power off down lines????

Let me know, very curious.

Kevin

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06-06-2013, 10:17 PM

#125

Rendegade

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RE: Sebart's new pattern ship MYTHOS

I experimented with the LG fairings on my Wind S.

They certainly do make a difference in KE on it. I fitted them to the mythos straight away I like the phat pants look

The only thing I really wish I hadn't done now is the fences. It makes it sooooo draggy. It eats up power, but the upside is downline speeds are also nice and controllable.

Maybe do a test and see what you get?

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