Anthoop

I would not mix the fuels together, but add extra oil. I would add an extra 5% oil at least. Just pour some of the fuel into a measuring jug and add the correct amount of oil required.
If you are in any doubt as to whether they will mix...then just use a small amount...100cc of fuel+5cc oil. I have not heard that castor and Odonnells do not mix.
A hair dryer is better than nothing, I made a little shroud out of tin foil before...mainly to concentrate the heat...but this will help if the carb is evaporating the fuel.

llkoolskillet

Well I can sit here and tell you that you're full of it too. Yes I know odonnells makes more than one brand of fuel. Wow I guess I must be to dense to figure that out. Lets see here, you talked to someone that said they add castor to there racing fuel. Then why would they not update there website? Seems like bad marketing here. But hey you talked to a guy that told you this. I actually tried to to add castor oil to there fuel and have proven that it does NOT mix. There speed blend clearly states that it does have castor and synthetic oil in it where as there racing fuel does not. Odonnells is not the only fuel out there that does not have castor in some if its line up. But hey any knowledgable person would know that right!?!

Why would I single out the odonnells brand? Because that's the only fuel I have ran besides the half gallon of traxxas 20% that I threw out and recently Werks 30%. Which by the way is an amazing fuel. I can't tell you how many gallons of odonnels I have ran, it is a great fuel but for my application it does not protect the motor at high rpm's. the synthetic starts to break down. And not having castor in it Hurts the motor. The castor at high rpm protects the motor cause it doesn't start to break down. Again any knowledgeable person would know this right!?!

Oh and slayerdude successfully added Benol castor oil to the odonnells speed blend. So nitroexpress please enlighten me as to why the Benol and odonnells race fuel will not mix since you talked to the producers?

1QwkSport2.5r

I can't confirm or deny Castor wont mix with ODonnells, although I can't understand why it wouldn't. Castor has an affinity to dissolve in methanol, and will mix with nitromethane alone in smaller amounts as well. So perhaps Klotz adds something to their Benol that may react with or prevent it from mixing with certain fuels, OR, by the looks of that picture, the blobs of oil looks like it could have gone rancid? Castor should look like a light honey color.

As far as break-down of the various oils, there's more to it. Castor has a flashpoint of about 445°F, but its fire point is about 840°F. Polyalkaline Glycols (typical synthetic oils in the US) have a flash point of roughly 350-400°F and a fire point of about 550°F. Most PAG oils have a lower viscosity, so where the PAG falls off the lubrication wagon and starts to burn is where the castor starts to shine. The fatty acids in the castor oil turn to a varnish which itself is still acting as a lubricant, so it is wonderful at protecting an engine from a lean run. RPM itself isn't breaking down the oils, its the temperature. That is unless you start splitting the atoms of the oil, then you have problems - I doubt a model engine will do this. The thicker the oil package is, the less likely it is to get "squeezed out" from between the piston and the top of the liner when the engine isnt at operating temperature. Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice a few rpm to have better lubrication by using a 50/50 blend of castor and synthetic oils in my homemade fuels.

This is all off subject, but its worth noting IMO.
Castor oil reading: http://www.go-cl.se/castor.html
A very basic read on Polyalkylene Glycol oil: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50492a019

There's more info out there, but if there is an insolubility between castor and a methanol based fuel, there is something preventing the dissolution of the two components. Normally, Castor will mix with methanol up to some crazy concentration of 40% or more before it will "settle out". Running 40% nitro and higher will sometimes cause the oils in methanol fuels to separate in which case the addition of 1-3% acetone will help keep the oil in solution with the nitromethane and methanol.

Drug store castor is usually fine to add to model engine fuel provided it doesnt have any added sugar to it. The quality of drug store castor is the same as Bakers AA grade castor which is most often used in making model engine fuels. It is first pressing oil which is the best. Second pressing works okay, but is nowhere near as good as first pressing.

I'm done with my rant. I'll grab some popcorn and sit by the fire now.

llkoolskillet

I opened a brand new gallon of fuel and added about 10ml of the Benol to it. I shook it up and poured out some into my fuel bottle and went to go try it out. My motors tune completely changed, its ran spurratic, and oil was coming out of everything. I opened the tank and noticed the bubbles. I had just ruined a brand new gallon of fuel. Now I use it to clean parts and air filters.

I cant tell you why the Benol and Odonnells race fuel do not mix, but they just dont. The pic above is what im talkin about, the benol does sperate and stains the fuel and everything else it touches.

The Werks fuel does have castor and so does the traxxas fuel. They both smell very very similar, the odonnlles race fuel smells different.

The only reason I posted you cant mix benol and odonnels race fuel is because I was tryin to save someone else the trouble of ruining a gallon of fuel. Maybe drug store castor will work IDK, imo just get some better quality fuel like sidewinder or werks

1QwkSport2.5r

Klotz may add something to Benol that you don't find in drug store castor or the bakers AA castor I get from SIG Manufacturing. Is Benol dyed or is it honey color?

Anthoop

That is a US gallon? So about 3785ml...and you added 10ml of oil?...and it made a difference?
I guess the OP can do a test as I suggested...whatever the case I think he needs more oil than the current 8%.

llkoolskillet

The klotz Benol is a dark dark brown color with a hint of red.

Anthoop yes I added it to a gallon but it did not mix it stays separated idk why but it does

1QwkSport2.5r

I think your Benol is bad or something, because it should be a much lighter color. If I had some OD, I'd add some drugstore castor just to see if it will mix.

SLAYERDUDE

Klotz Benol mixed with my OD Speed Blend, I still blew 2 engines...
Bearings went bad, same as a friend of mine's O.S. Speed.
OD Speed Blend can suck my everlasting ....

1QwkSport2.5r

I think for those wanting to add more oil to their low oil fuel (8% is way too low IMHO) to either use drug store castor oil, or order a quart of Castor oil from SIG Manufacturing in Iowa. Klotz Benol is twice as expensive, if not more. A gallon of Benol is roughly $40 plus shipping. SIG castor (which has zero additives) is $32 a gallon shipped. I use 1-2 gallons of it during the season and it works great. The only fuel I havent had any of to add castor to is ODonnells. It mixes with everything else that I know of. Trinity, Traxxas, Byrons, Blue Thunder, and Losi Nitrotane are all fuels I've added oil to without problem.

In a gallon of 8% oil fuel, you have to add 3 ounces of oil to bring the oil content up to 10%. For bashing, I use no less than 12% which would take another 3 ounces. 3 ounces = about 2% higher content. This will lower the nitro content a little, but I doubt one will notice a 5% drop in nitro content.

Its too bad I can't ship my homebrew fuel to someone to try out. I think you guys would be surprised how much better it runs than storebought fuel.

Anthoop

Maybe you should make a thread with all of the information required to make your own fuel, a dummys guide if you like- safety precautions, links to suppliers, options and variables, etc.
I know many people mix their own fuel and I am sure many others would too if there was a guide...maybe we could get the guide "stickied" also.

1QwkSport2.5r

I did a little "shopping around" awhile back and it didnt seem like there was much interest because the startup costs are a bit high. I do it to save money as a gallon of car fuel costs $36-$38 a gallon here in Minnesota where it costs me about $10-$14 a gallon to make my own. My airplane fuel is about $8 a gallon for 5% nitro fuel to make myself. FAI fuel is about $5 a gallon. Premix airplane fuel is about $30-$32 a gallon.

I'm in the process of breaking in an engine right now, but I will make a thread specifically for mixing homebrew fuel later this afternoon, however it is not for the faint of heart. There are inherent risks to doing is, namely fire and explosion.

Thanks for the suggestion, I held off before due to interest but perhaps it should be made and put up if for nothing else but educational purposes.

Anthoop

I can not relate to the actual monetary costs you have listed there but I can see a large percentage difference /gallon.
Of course mxing your own fuel is not recommended for a novice - "hey..I just picked up my first nitro car/boat/plane...mix what with what again?"....more for the people burning gallons of shop fuel every year..and every gallon is three times the price of what it could be.
Take your time with the thread as I imagine the safety aspect is the largest consideration.

gcoad76

great, i've been reading all these post and i still dont know what to do, i gotta a new engine just spent 30+ bucks on fuel that i thought was gonna be good know i find out that it sucks and i have to add stuff to it with the risk of that not working either. DANG. i am so ready to put after run oil in that new engine and put this hobby on the shelf. i cant leave my house cause im on certain "restrictions" so im stuck and the aggrivation of this relativly easy "hobby" is gettin to me.

thanks every one for the helpful tips and comments

1QwkSport2.5r

What you do is this. Go to Walgreens or whatever drug store is nearby. Buy a 4oz bottle of Castor oil (it will be in the aisle with laxatives) and add that to your jug. 3oz of oil will bring your total content up 2%. If you already burned a few tanks out of the jug, this will probably bring your oil content to 12%. Shake well and go play. Nothing hard about it, and certainly not worth putting the car on the shelf. If you kept your engine rich during the first few runs, it should not have been damaged and not worth worrying about.

This hobby isn't "Easy". It takes time to learn the ins and outs, and after you have some time under your belt, it will get easier. The learning curve is pretty large but you have to be patient. Don't rush it or you will be unhappy and will not have fun doing it.

Anthoop

It is like riding a bike..at the start it hurts....
The fuel you have is not wasted. I do encourage you to add more oil to it for break in though especially. Alternatively you could buy a few quarts (?) of fuel with a higher oil content.

Max_Power

If the fuel and oil is as seperated as it looks in the pucture why not just pull the oil floating on the top off with a paper towel? I do this all the time cooking instead of draining, if the oil is on top it will blot right out. If is as seperated as it looks in the picture should be a 2 minute job? , or you can just poke a hole in the bottom of the jug and drain into another until you get to the crap at the top?

Anthoop

Obvious is not always obvious...remember how much was added?

1QwkSport2.5r

10mL is 1/3 of an ounce and that ruined a whole gallon? And I thought I heard it all.

gcoad76

well everything is going ok, i still hava a hard time with the priming but i still get it started. here are some pics. everything is stock except the engine i have done fabrication on the bodies i have . i made the roof scoops out of spray can lids and they seem to work well. the engine temp is at a good temp. so i didnt have to cut any other holes in the bodies. i fabricated the lights on both bodies. next im going to do the back lights i found a micro swictch so when i hit the brakes there will be two dedicated lights that come on

thanks to everyone who has posted i appreiciate your time and advice

Anthoop

Looks good.
Not sure that exhaust is optimal for the engine though.
What car is it? Hpi?

gcoad76

yes hpi rs4 2. i had to make spacers for the header bolts, the os engine has thinner blocks for the exhaust bolts. i'm sure i'll need a header and then i need to find a good exhaust. i read that shorter pipes give torque and longer give top end. any suggestions?

Anthoop

I do not have any suggestions, but that is both a popular car and a popular engine....I would imagine I could find a few possibilities by searching though.
Short/long providing different aspects will only apply once you know the length that will give the most equal balance.

SLAYERDUDE

Short pipe gives top end, longer is bottom end.
If you have a silicone coupled pipe, you can test by just lengthening the header to pipe connection.

Anthoop

..but define short/long.
For example if I have a pipe and manifold with a length of 9 inches...is that short or long?