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Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

Old 10-08-2012, 02:52 PM
  #51  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican...raft_inventory
Pete
Old 10-08-2012, 03:47 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

ORIGINAL: rcairflr


ORIGINAL: ddaveb

If they only wanted to crash it they should have used a Spektrum radio .
That is funny (although, I don't think the Spektrum owners will think so)

right, and this is why the "Futaba" needed to be so close to the 727 (50 Yards I think) the chase plane could not keep up, so they got a faster chase plane :-)

They could not establish link, maybe if they only had "More Antenna's".....(DOAH)[X(]

I usually do not take part in these silly "Spektrum -vs- Futaba" rants, but I could not resist this one

they are not in the US so why not boost the power on that thing to like 5 Watt RMS, external linear amp. then they could have stayed back 1/2 mile?
Old 10-08-2012, 05:41 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


There were photos, but I didn't see ONE of them that had the Mexican insignia on the side!

Andy
Old 10-08-2012, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

"right, and this is why the "Futaba" needed to be so close to the 727 (50 Yards I think) the chase plane could not keep up, so they got a faster chase plane :-)

They could not establish link, maybe if they only had "More Antenna's".....(DOAH)

I usually do not take part in these silly "Spektrum -vs- Futaba" rants, but I could not resist this one

they are not in the US so why not boost the power on that thing to like 5 Watt RMS, external linear amp. then they could have stayed back 1/2 mile? "


I don't think they had a RF engineer in their technical support group. Could have used one. A range of only 50 yards was ridiculously low.
I agree, use of an externalTx amplifier would have beena good idea. Actually, a Spektrum system might have been a better choice for this application. Satelite receivers could easily havebeen mounted in several different windows even on opposite sides of the aircraft.
Old 10-08-2012, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

I wouldn't believe 95% of what is on TV. They crashed a 727 into a Desert in Mexico. That's about it.

Kurt
Old 10-08-2012, 10:11 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

I think Bozarth is correct. My first impression was that this was made more as a reality TV production (with plenty of deliberately imposed problems) than it was to provide much scientific data. For instance, how many hundreds if not thousands of airplanes and variants are there that are capable of flying both faster than this particular plane was flown and slower than approach speed of this plane? Why choose one whose top speed was within 10 MPH of the approach speed of the crashed plane other than to provide drama? And the trigger system. What a joke. A simple radio signal from the ground could have triggered the scientific equipment, or, if they were determined to use the RC radio transmitter to its fullest potential, why not use one of the unused channels on that transmitter to trigger the equipment? Come on.
Old 10-09-2012, 03:56 AM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

My understanding the trigger started the high speed camera at the exact point of impact.  Although they did not state the reason for not starting the cameras before impact ( the high speed ones at least) My understanding was the cameras take 2500 pics a second and they were trying to make best use of there equipment's storage  space.
Old 10-09-2012, 06:41 AM
  #58  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


ORIGINAL: lopflyers

They considered Spektrum but later decided it was a waste to crash a perfectly working system, someone else could use it again.
On the other hand Futaba is ok to crash and trash.

Nope, they knew the Futaba gear would survive the crash...

Gerry
Old 10-09-2012, 07:29 AM
  #59  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


ORIGINAL: GerKonig


ORIGINAL: lopflyers

They considered Spektrum but later decided it was a waste to crash a perfectly working system, someone else could use it again.
On the other hand Futaba is ok to crash and trash.

Nope, they knew the Futaba gear would survive the crash...

Gerry
But more importantly, they knew that Futaba will complete the mission and not lockout half way to the destination.

JK
Doug.
Old 10-09-2012, 07:37 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

Yeah, he said because of the extremely high speed of the camera, it was not like a "normal" video camera that you could just start and let it run for an extended period of time.  I certainly agree though that you could have used one of the simple on/off switches on the receiver to trigger the camera.  Or *something* else since as they said, "if the trigger didn't work, the whole experiment would be worthless."  I would have to agree with JollyPopper, they certainly do seem to infuse a lot of "drama" to make people want to watch the TV show.  Either that, or that was the stupidest group of engineers and research people I've ever seen.  
Probably the BIGGEST problems I saw was that if you have to "struggle" to keep up with your chase plane, they needed a different chase plane.  When they got the 2nd plane and chose the "ferrari of prop planes" or whatever they called it, could they not have found something faster than the Skymaster that they could have REPAIRED at the field and had ready to go?  On an experiment of this scale, would you not have had a couple chase planes at the ready that were capable of keeping up?  If everyone was concerned about safety, that would have cancelled the experiment right there.

And a 50 yard receiver?  Yes, perhaps the narrator mis-spoke or the script was off, but give me a break.  Y'all can joke about Spektrum radios if you'd like but.....  LOL  Maybe that was taking into account the interference from both planes or something.  You would have thought they would have used a different sort of antenna or something to make a better link.  They didn't go into that a lot so we don't know, other than the guy saying he used a "standard" receiver.  The guy with the radio joked telling the pilot to "remind me to make sure the antenna is pointing up"....  surely these guys weren't this clueless.  

Also....  the guy who climbed down into the hold after the crash commented that "if there was baggage down here, that would have pushed up the floor of the aircraft and given us different results"...... No sh** Sherlock.  If they wanted to simulate an actual crash, WOULDN'T YOU HAVE FILLED THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT IF FOR NOTHING ELSE THE ADDITIONAL WEIGHT?  If that was full of baggage and the floor was pushed up, the fuse would have possibly folded and broken apart in more places and you would have had an ENTIRELY different crash scenario. 

Overall, I thought it was pretty spectacular and a good watch.  We don't know a lot of what went on behind the scenes except maybe the guy who said he worked with the guy involved in the project.  If we knew some more of the details, I wouldn't have to say yes, that was possibly the stupidest group of engineers  and research scientists I've ever seen.  

Oh yeah, you would have thought that with the "crash scene inspector" lady involved that she would have know about all the panels and junk falling down from the ceiling of the plane.  I would have at *least* removed the panels and anything in the areas that would have interfered with my onboard cameras if that was so vital! 

AND.....  I was thinking for safety reasons, WHY IN BLAZES would you have crashed it with 2 hours of fuel left in the tanks?  But then I realized that if something had gone wrong and they had to abort, the Captain would have to be able to fly back to the airport or do whatever their "fallback" plan was.  It was very interesting.
Old 10-09-2012, 08:21 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


ORIGINAL: PatrickCurry

Yeah, he said because of the extremely high speed of the camera, it was not like a ''normal'' video camera that you could just start and let it run for an extended period of time. I certainly agree though that you could have used one of the simple on/off switches on the receiver to trigger the camera. Or *something* else since as they said, ''if the trigger didn't work, the whole experiment would be worthless.'' I would have to agree with JollyPopper, they certainly do seem to infuse a lot of ''drama'' to make people want to watch the TV show. Either that, or that was the stupidest group of engineers and research people I've ever seen.
Probably the BIGGEST problems I saw was that if you have to ''struggle'' to keep up with your chase plane, they needed a different chase plane. When they got the 2nd plane and chose the ''ferrari of prop planes'' or whatever they called it, could they not have found something faster than the Skymaster that they could have REPAIRED at the field and had ready to go? On an experiment of this scale, would you not have had a couple chase planes at the ready that were capable of keeping up? If everyone was concerned about safety, that would have cancelled the experiment right there.

And a 50 yard receiver? Yes, perhaps the narrator mis-spoke or the script was off, but give me a break. Y'all can joke about Spektrum radios if you'd like but..... LOL Maybe that was taking into account the interference from both planes or something. You would have thought they would have used a different sort of antenna or something to make a better link. They didn't go into that a lot so we don't know, other than the guy saying he used a ''standard'' receiver. The guy with the radio joked telling the pilot to ''remind me to make sure the antenna is pointing up''.... surely these guys weren't this clueless.

Also.... the guy who climbed down into the hold after the crash commented that ''if there was baggage down here, that would have pushed up the floor of the aircraft and given us different results''...... No sh** Sherlock. If they wanted to simulate an actual crash, WOULDN'T YOU HAVE FILLED THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT IF FOR NOTHING ELSE THE ADDITIONAL WEIGHT? If that was full of baggage and the floor was pushed up, the fuse would have possibly folded and broken apart in more places and you would have had an ENTIRELY different crash scenario.

Overall, I thought it was pretty spectacular and a good watch. We don't know a lot of what went on behind the scenes except maybe the guy who said he worked with the guy involved in the project. If we knew some more of the details, I wouldn't have to say yes, that was possibly the stupidest group of engineers and research scientists I've ever seen.

Oh yeah, you would have thought that with the ''crash scene inspector'' lady involved that she would have know about all the panels and junk falling down from the ceiling of the plane. I would have at *least* removed the panels and anything in the areas that would have interfered with my onboard cameras if that was so vital!

AND..... I was thinking for safety reasons, WHY IN BLAZES would you have crashed it with 2 hours of fuel left in the tanks? But then I realized that if something had gone wrong and they had to abort, the Captain would have to be able to fly back to the airport or do whatever their ''fallback'' plan was. It was very interesting.

There is a lot that could have been done better, but that goes with experiment. sometimes people are to smart and they miss the little things.

Also nowdays how many people really check bags for short flights asthis plane would have been used for?? I also think they went to a bunch of planing and looking for sponers. i bet futaba ponied up the transmitter and rec. and i bet they said use it as is lol

what really got me was the price of a fully flyable plane for only $450,000. that is cheap in the jet plane arena.
Old 10-09-2012, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

Hossfly, even if you engineered, piloted, and performed maintenance on the 727 for 800 years, your practical experience means nothing to the onewasp/dirtybird/rmh crowd. Whatever you (and anyone else on this planet) have done, DB has done it better and for longer. You fly 727s? He designed Voyager I and II, and even test flew the alternate (undeveloped, man-carrying) version around Area 51. You have 5000 hours in a particular type of aircraft? He and his design team were advising Orville and Wilbur Wright on making bicycles more efficient, and planted the seed in their heads to investigate the principles of flight. My advice, Hossfly: give the hell up.
Old 10-09-2012, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

The whole episode of the two guys who bailed out at 2500 feet insetad of the planned 4000 feet which put them way beyond the planned location to be picked up was another joke. Does anyone in his right mind believe the actual scientists would make a change like that without the knowledge of the recovery people. The was simply used to precipitate a 15 minute drama of folks scrambling to "find" the two parachutists before it got dark and they froze to death and it was simply not necessary to the show.
Old 10-09-2012, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

all of the above. It was obviously drawn out for sponsership purposes and could of been told in in a 1/2 hr show. Are there any threads on here any more that deal with actually building model aircraft?
Old 10-09-2012, 11:56 AM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


ORIGINAL: asimatt

Spektrum are JUNK. my friend has lost $18,000.00 in planes this summer. The other day I lost a $500.00 plane.
Is it possible it was due to the loose screw in front of the control?
Old 10-09-2012, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


ORIGINAL: PatrickCurry

Yeah, he said because of the extremely high speed of the camera, it was not like a "normal" video camera that you could just start and let it run for an extended period of time. I certainly agree though that you could have used one of the simple on/off switches on the receiver to trigger the camera. Or *something* else since as they said, "if the trigger didn't work, the whole experiment would be worthless." I would have to agree with JollyPopper, they certainly do seem to infuse a lot of "drama" to make people want to watch the TV show. Either that, or that was the stupidest group of engineers and research people I've ever seen.
Probably the BIGGEST problems I saw was that if you have to "struggle" to keep up with your chase plane, they needed a different chase plane. When they got the 2nd plane and chose the "ferrari of prop planes" or whatever they called it, could they not have found something faster than the Skymaster that they could have REPAIRED at the field and had ready to go? On an experiment of this scale, would you not have had a couple chase planes at the ready that were capable of keeping up? If everyone was concerned about safety, that would have cancelled the experiment right there.

And a 50 yard receiver? Yes, perhaps the narrator mis-spoke or the script was off, but give me a break. Y'all can joke about Spektrum radios if you'd like but..... LOL Maybe that was taking into account the interference from both planes or something. You would have thought they would have used a different sort of antenna or something to make a better link. They didn't go into that a lot so we don't know, other than the guy saying he used a "standard" receiver. The guy with the radio joked telling the pilot to "remind me to make sure the antenna is pointing up".... surely these guys weren't this clueless.

Also.... the guy who climbed down into the hold after the crash commented that "if there was baggage down here, that would have pushed up the floor of the aircraft and given us different results"...... No sh** Sherlock. If they wanted to simulate an actual crash, WOULDN'T YOU HAVE FILLED THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT IF FOR NOTHING ELSE THE ADDITIONAL WEIGHT? If that was full of baggage and the floor was pushed up, the fuse would have possibly folded and broken apart in more places and you would have had an ENTIRELY different crash scenario.

Overall, I thought it was pretty spectacular and a good watch. We don't know a lot of what went on behind the scenes except maybe the guy who said he worked with the guy involved in the project. If we knew some more of the details, I wouldn't have to say yes, that was possibly the stupidest group of engineers and research scientists I've ever seen.

Oh yeah, you would have thought that with the "crash scene inspector" lady involved that she would have know about all the panels and junk falling down from the ceiling of the plane. I would have at *least* removed the panels and anything in the areas that would have interfered with my onboard cameras if that was so vital!

AND..... I was thinking for safety reasons, WHY IN BLAZES would you have crashed it with 2 hours of fuel left in the tanks? But then I realized that if something had gone wrong and they had to abort, the Captain would have to be able to fly back to the airport or do whatever their "fallback" plan was. It was very interesting.
Good thing that plane had air brakes. As it turned out, it also had ground breaks....LOL
Old 10-09-2012, 01:31 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

I agree AR, I thought $450,000 was pretty cheap. I guess those depreciate pretty quick like cars, but that plane's 30 or 40 years old? Something like that?

Yeah, I agree sbout the bail-out too JP.... being that kind of experienced jumpers they knew they'd be WAY off target with an alteration like that and I'm sure they were well aware of the dangers of the desert. (sigh) It's bad when you have to watch crappy "reality television" even on the educational channels.
Old 10-09-2012, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

Cheap except it probably a timed out airframe and gas guzzler. Pressurized airplanes have life limits that is why you slowly see them disappear; there are extensions you can buy from the manufacturer, but there are limits. I am sure that plane had 80,000 + hours of operation. Value is only in the spare parts it could give up. Gas guzzler 1700 gallons to take off and fly 30 min. That is $7,700 at my local airport fuel price.
All for show.
Old 10-09-2012, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


ORIGINAL: dirtybird

They would have been derelict to use an R/C system to control that aircraft. I suspect they just used the transmitter as a control device and used a fully redundant high power transmission system.
Ha, as others have pointed, you were wrong.
Old 10-09-2012, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

Yes I was wrong. But they should be arrested for public endangerment.
They got away with it but, but the pilots took a terrible chance jumping out of the airplane. I guess if you pay enough you can find someone dumb enough to do it.
And controlling a 727 with a model airplane system.
Someone said they should have had an RF engineer. If they had he wouldn't have had anything to do with it.
I just hope we don't have any copycats. We could have a disaster.
Old 10-09-2012, 02:26 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

They did a decent job. I actually agree that it should have been a better radio communications system, more power, more range. 50 yards was a joke. None the less, I enjoyed it.
Old 10-09-2012, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

To: ROB2160

Please do not use expressions like "perfect" or "100% perfect" when it comes to electronic communication, since they are misleading.

The electromagnetic wave spectrum is subject to the immutable laws of physics.
The bottom line is that glitch-free software, error-free computers, and an interference-free radio link is only an illusion.
Old 10-09-2012, 10:17 PM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!


ORIGINAL: RamItOn

Hossfly, even if you engineered, piloted, and performed maintenance on the 727 for 800 years, your practical experience means nothing to the onewasp/dirtybird/rmh crowd. Whatever you (and anyone else on this planet) have done, DB has done it better and for longer. You fly 727s? He designed Voyager I and II, and even test flew the alternate (undeveloped, man-carrying) version around Area 51. You have 5000 hours in a particular type of aircraft? He and his design team were advising Orville and Wilbur Wright on making bicycles more efficient, and planted the seed in their heads to investigate the principles of flight. My advice, Hossfly: give the hell up.
Couldn't of said it better, or as funny.
Old 10-10-2012, 04:54 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

Sorry I missed voyager 1&2. I have been to area 51 though. I even have seen the little green bodies but I guess that was in New Mexico or someplace.
Old 10-10-2012, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: Full-size 727 controlled by Futaba 8FG!

ORIGINAL: TFF

Cheap except it probably a timed out airframe and gas guzzler.
Ah, didn't think about that. I don't guess you can just keep fixing up an old airplane (at least that type) like you can an old car. Makes sense.


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