orion4455

dear rgaynor:

i checked my notes etc and found: David Pinegar, screenalias: teamscalepilot; in the rcuniverse.com. he built a 310 with electric. contact him for some good ideas. he does great work, as the pictures show. good luck. orion4455.

rgaynor

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks so much Orion4455. I have read through the post of planes that we converted to electric. There are new and improved outrunner motors out now (not available when they converted) that provide great power. Specifically Torque 4016 - 500KV on 6S will put our more watts and thrust than the e-flite Power 46 or Scorpion motors used by some. Having converted several 1/5 scale planes (single and twin engine), I am just now starting to get the hang on what power supply works well with this size plane. I will post pictures of the build once I get started.

Fidelity101

My Feedback: (13)

I just got off the phone with a guy name Chris from Hobby Services. I have an older Cessna 310, which was purchased from a guy on rcuniverse a year or two ago. Now that I've gotten around to building it, I'm wondering if the wing issue is still a problem given the unknown age of my ARF. After my discussion with Chris, who didn't seem to know, care, or even try to answer my question, I'm hoping that someone on this forum will be able to help me figure out if my ARF will have an issue or not.

I did read something earlier in this thread about a single stab. My wings are held together by a single nylon screw holding the halves together with a large diameter tube in the front of the wing and a smaller diameter tube in the rear. Both tubes are pretty short but the wings seems fairly solid when assembled. I am going with twin OS 55AX engines, turning 12x6 APC props. I've also upgraded the retracts to Down-n-locked electrics, which work VERY well on the bench. :-)

Again, any help on the age identification or wing issue/when it was resolved and how it was resolved would be of great help and relieve as I fly on a very bumpy grass field.

Chuchuf

My Feedback: (1)

I don't know how you would check to see if the problem exists on the wings you have but I would assume so as the fix is really pretty easy.

orion4455

Hello Fidelity One:
I just read Chuchuf's reply. He is on one of the right solutions. When I examined my plane carefully, while preparing it for some improvements, I found some small horizontal cracks in the Flaps compartments. Chuchuf has a good idea. I had "foamed" the inside of my wings, another solution for wing strength, and had considered using 5-ply plywood pieces, from SIG, to glue into the flaps compartments, between the ribs. I have since decided to forego the plywood since i already had the foam for strength, but each way should work.
One other idea; I did alot of reading after purchasing my plane and found that OS .46ax's for engines were really good for the 310. the OS .55's should work as well.
It appears you are on the correct path in building your plane. best regards, orion4455.
PS: please post any info you get regarding age versus wing/wood strength for your plane. id really like to know about it. i was also wondering if topflite would have some direction here. thank you.

rgaynor

My Feedback: (1)

I inserted the plywood between the ribs inside the flap compartment - easy to do and once painted, you don't see it.

Chuchuf

My Feedback: (1)

The plywood is Top Flights solution.

handyman_alw_

My Feedback: (14)

as one of the first to recieve the 310 on the first run and by the way i will add that it is still flying as soon as i heard about the weakness in the wing i got together with a friend and master builder and we came up with the idea of foaming the entire wing. It did not add much weight but trippled the strentgh of the wing. it does not take much effort or time you cut a few holes in the underside of the wing spray the foam in and wait for it to expand and cut off the foam that comes through the hole sand it and pacth the covering and as i said after many flights it is still flying with no problems. the fixes that have been talked about all will do the job in the areas talked about but only foaming strentghens the whole wing.you just have to make up your mind which one to use and then move forward. I will say that of all the choices out there i would still go with foaming the wing but that is only one person's opinon. happy flying and remember to to check the gear before landing.



Allen

boingram

...after five flights, my wing folded like a house of cards....purchased new one...stripped covering on bottom of wing between both nacelles...glued wing together...ran three strips of carbon biber longintudinal carbon fiber length wise on bottom, then glassed the section between the nacelles....blew a couple of coats of white....could probably stand on it and didn't add much weight....not pretty, but who sees the bottom....bo

handyman_alw_

My Feedback: (14)

hey Bo,

are you still using the orignal engines in yours? I took out the 55"ss and put e-flite 46's in mine and it is a monster now.

Allen

orion4455

Hello Allen: hope the new home in Arkansas is nice, and the move wasn't too bad. Orion4455, fairfield, ia.

boingram

Allen...yep...stil have the 46ax's in it....once it gets up a head of steam, it flies fast and smooth, but definitely flies on the wing and not the props. I am thinking about electrifying a Pica Duelists I have framed, and might eventually electrify the 310...I have been modelling for over 40-years and wish electrics had been viable a lot sooner.

Where did you place your battereies...did you use two escs, etc. How about some more info on how you did it on the 310...can you point me to a build thread...thanks,

Bo

pacoflyer

My Feedback: (23)

Gentlemen,
This all sounds suspiciously similar to the problem Top Flite had a few years back with their giant scale P-51 ARF. Under the compressive loads exerted on the wing during landing and at high speed maneuvers the wing spar[s] were failing. It turns out that the Chinese ladies that were building these beauties were installing the sheer webbing into the wing with the grain going the wrong way. You'd think that Top Flite would have paid more attention to the construction of their ARFs they brought to market after that...


Just my 2 cents,
paul

Chuchuf

My Feedback: (1)

I questioned them on the grain of the sheer web on the rear spar of the 310 running with the spar and the designer of the plane told me that it was correct that way.

pacoflyer

My Feedback: (23)

And so it should be.
We pulled apart a failed wing on the Top Flite giant scale P-51 a couple of summers ago and the grain in the sheer webbing was running longitudinally down the wing...

paul

P-Y

My Feedback: (1)

I crashed my Cessna a while ago, and had to buy new wings because the wings were so damaged that I couldn't fix them. (they were re-inforced with foam but the impact was way too hard...)
I haven't reinforced the new wings and so far I haven't had any weakness issue. May be they have improved the building of the Cessna wings or may be i'm just lucky...

Fidelity101

My Feedback: (13)

I'm about ready to do my maiden flight tomorrow afternoon. I didn't notice any comments on this thread about plane performance or things to avoid. Does anyone know if this plane has a tendency to stall in steep turns or how she handles slower speeds? I'm worried that at 22 pounds, she's going to be 52-54 oz/in in terms of wing loading, which will make it a heavier wing loading than my Habu 32...which is a hand full on takeoff and comes in hot.

Any helpful tips would be appreciated regarding.

P-Y

My Feedback: (1)

This is definitely a plane which flies on its wings, not on the engines. Steep turns are OK, but not at slow speed. I use the flaps on the final approach to not land too fast. One time, I was way too slow on the final approach, and the plane just flipped over and crashed (I had to replace the wings and to fix minor cracks on the fuselage). Sometimes I do loops (large) or (snap)rolls but it's always scary as it's not easy to handle with this plane.
I push the plane as fast as I can for take off or use the flaps sometimes. (from grass)

Chuchuf

My Feedback: (1)

Having flown this plane with electric setup at about your weight a LOT, I  can assure you that the plane flys very well. If you lower the throttle for straight and level, come back up on it in turns and fly through the turns. Don't yank in turns and do not test it's slow speed till you get used to flying it.

boingram

Terry...can you describe your electric set-up or direct me to a thread...thx...Bo

Chuchuf

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, Torque (extreme flight motors) 4016/500kv, 100A esc's or 75A (your choice we used castles and think we were under 70A full power on the ground) , 6S5000 batts, 15/8 (more flight time less speed) or 15/10 (more speed, little less flight time) APCe props. 7-9 min flight time depending on how hard you fly and great pull. Batteries are located in nacelles where fuel tanks normally go. Great Take Off Power, great in flight power.

boingram

Terry...thank you...I have been an rc'er for over 40-years and just getting into electrics....wonderful!

My 310 has 46ax's and I have been considering electrifying it...do you have any pics and did you retro fit or start from scratch. The airframe is already heavy, so did the electrification make it even heavier. Did you consider a single batt pack in the fuse?

Thanks...Bo

Chuchuf

My Feedback: (1)

On one a friend did, he had 46's in it and after he saw the electrics fly, he converted his to electric. The difference in flying and power with the setup I described over nitro is HUGE!! I had flown his about a dozen times and would never go that route.

Fidelity101

My Feedback: (13)

Maiden flight complete!!! I wish I took video because it was definitely fun.

Good news: Plane took off in under 200 feet and maintained a really nice rate of climb. I had to input a little down elevator to stop the climb and one click of right aileron. After a few long circles above the flying field, I decided to try out flaps. Using my Aurora 9 radio, I had programmed in a few degrees of down elevator so after deploying half flaps, she didn't have any signs of nosing up or down. Another lap around the field and it was time for the landing. With the throttle at about 1/3 and nose slightly down with half flaps, I was able to loose altitude without gaining much speed. Just above the runway, I pulled back a bit more on the throttle and leveled the plane out. A nice three wheel landing in grass followed by going back in the air about 3 feet. I kept the nose level or slightly down and it settled back down within about 25 feet. Landing complete, I taxi over to the bench for inspection.

Bad news: I did not listen to the previous advice about reinforcing the wing because I was to excited to get out there and fly. Given my AUW of 21.6 pounds, I really didn't want to add any weight. Anyway, I noticed the right wing was cracked from the leading edge all the way back just inside of the flap. After further inspection, the large piece of hardwood that extends just past the nacelle heading towards the fuselage stops about 4-6" before the large tube picks up and continues into the left wing. That void is where all of the damage occured. Two cracked ribs in the front of the wing. Further inspection will be required to see what else broke, but that's the preliminary report.

A new wing set is now on back order and it looks to be late october before they come back in stock. So i hope to re-maiden this bird early next year.

Overall thought, my initial fears about the 52 oz/in wing loading has been replaced with confidence that this plane can be flown by any intermediate flier with an understanding of tip stall issues. As long as you stay on the throttle in turns, she flies like a dream. It has a really nice presence in the air and I will be sure to take video of the next maiden.

handyman_alw_

My Feedback: (14)

Bo,
sorry i have not got back to you but will try to explain my set up. I put the batteries in where the fuel tanks was and put the leads out of the fire wall so they could be hooked up from under the nacelles along with the balancing plugs so there is no need to take it apart to charge. i made sure i put big enough holes in the fire wall to cool the batteries while in flight and mounted the speed controls behind the motors on the fire wall for cooling this is important if the speed controls do not get enough cooling they will melt the leads right off of it and that will be the end of the speed control i know i did it one another plane. installing the motors are straight forward just like you would if they where glow. make sure you drill some holes in the very rear of the nacelles to allow the air to run through them to cool the batteries. the rest is how ever you like it for your own personal taste but you will notice alot better burst of speed up front or what you would call instant power but that also creates instant torque but you will notice the difference.



Allen