Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
10-16-2012, 02:24 PM
#3676
RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Anyone have half a wing left over from a crash? i would still like to see if one of these panels could be taken apart to make templates.. the cost of the arf wings is unrealistic... i could see 100 bucks but 200?
10-16-2012, 03:19 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Dear Foodstsick:
You are seeing why people quit this hobby before they really get going with it.
I bought a great plane. Then I learned everything is "ala carte" in this BUSINESS. The shipping fees are outrageous, and the amounts charged for parts is often less than shipping. When you start looking at planes, radios, batteries, ground/field gear, servos, and a host of other thingsJUST TO MAKE A PLANE FLYits simply no fun, and not worth the effort or cost. 'The irony is that Im at an age where I can afford to fly planes, BUT who wants to keep spending $50 every time you need something? I dont.
Perhaps the flying members would be willing to form a group and "boycott" the hobby shops and on-line suppliers to get shipping and parts prices in a realistic realm. I paid $3.69 for a motor part, and $5.20 for the shipping. Ive had hobby shops send the wrong items, and then find it costs more to return it than keep it.
Im going to get my plane re-furbished, I'm almost done, and then it will sit in a store window. To fly it i will need a radio, a trainer plane, another motor, a rx, instruction, club membership, etc., the list goes on and on.
Finally, many people fly their plane once, crash it, repair it, and then sell it. my plane has a couple thousand dollars of extrasrobarts, down and locked, etcso you would think i would LOVE the hobby. my plane was crashed but the seller never mentioned it, despite the plane being in great shape. Im just another guy who bought a plane and then learned how EXPENSIVE the BUSINESS OF FLYING really is.
It's too bad the suppliers of planes and parts are killing the hobby. they keep saying they dont control the cost of shipping, so i ask: why do you ship a bottle of paint, or a small part in a BOX? or, why did you send me two pieces of wood, two feet in length, in a five foot box ,with postage at $8.00, when you could use a US postal tube for a couple of dollars? Im out of R/C as soon as my plane is painted. i can sell my plane, parts, and tools, and still live with a loss of a couple hundred dollars. The ATTRACTION OF r/c flying is one factor; the COST is entirely ANOTHER. It's too bad the costs force people leave r/c flying, because, generally stated, i find the people, the r/c flyers, are a great group of people.
You are seeing why people quit this hobby before they really get going with it.
I bought a great plane. Then I learned everything is "ala carte" in this BUSINESS. The shipping fees are outrageous, and the amounts charged for parts is often less than shipping. When you start looking at planes, radios, batteries, ground/field gear, servos, and a host of other thingsJUST TO MAKE A PLANE FLYits simply no fun, and not worth the effort or cost. 'The irony is that Im at an age where I can afford to fly planes, BUT who wants to keep spending $50 every time you need something? I dont.
Perhaps the flying members would be willing to form a group and "boycott" the hobby shops and on-line suppliers to get shipping and parts prices in a realistic realm. I paid $3.69 for a motor part, and $5.20 for the shipping. Ive had hobby shops send the wrong items, and then find it costs more to return it than keep it.
Im going to get my plane re-furbished, I'm almost done, and then it will sit in a store window. To fly it i will need a radio, a trainer plane, another motor, a rx, instruction, club membership, etc., the list goes on and on.
Finally, many people fly their plane once, crash it, repair it, and then sell it. my plane has a couple thousand dollars of extrasrobarts, down and locked, etcso you would think i would LOVE the hobby. my plane was crashed but the seller never mentioned it, despite the plane being in great shape. Im just another guy who bought a plane and then learned how EXPENSIVE the BUSINESS OF FLYING really is.
It's too bad the suppliers of planes and parts are killing the hobby. they keep saying they dont control the cost of shipping, so i ask: why do you ship a bottle of paint, or a small part in a BOX? or, why did you send me two pieces of wood, two feet in length, in a five foot box ,with postage at $8.00, when you could use a US postal tube for a couple of dollars? Im out of R/C as soon as my plane is painted. i can sell my plane, parts, and tools, and still live with a loss of a couple hundred dollars. The ATTRACTION OF r/c flying is one factor; the COST is entirely ANOTHER. It's too bad the costs force people leave r/c flying, because, generally stated, i find the people, the r/c flyers, are a great group of people.
10-16-2012, 04:55 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Bob,
If you remember when you first contacted me about the hobby i told you then that you would need to get a trainer first to see if this is really what you wanted to do and not to jump right into a plane like the 310 for it is not for beginners and costs way more than a trainer. I understand that you wanted this plane from the start but this what happens when you get in over your head to soon as you have done. As i told you the best way was a trainer and radio and when you where done with the trainer you could move the radio to your next plane the 310 is at least a 3rd or 4th airplane not a first plane. i understand about costs of things as i am still unemployed after my move from iowa but because i started slow and gathered my planes over the years i am still able to enjoy the hobby that i love. i hope you will reconsider your thoughts and stay in the hobby and get yourself a trainer and work your way up to the 310 for once it is finished it will still be there when you are ready for it. I think everyone on here will agree that it will be worth the wait. Just remember you chose to do all the upgrades to the 310 and therefore you knew the cost going in. do not let it sour you towards the hobby just learn from it and move forward.
Allen
If you remember when you first contacted me about the hobby i told you then that you would need to get a trainer first to see if this is really what you wanted to do and not to jump right into a plane like the 310 for it is not for beginners and costs way more than a trainer. I understand that you wanted this plane from the start but this what happens when you get in over your head to soon as you have done. As i told you the best way was a trainer and radio and when you where done with the trainer you could move the radio to your next plane the 310 is at least a 3rd or 4th airplane not a first plane. i understand about costs of things as i am still unemployed after my move from iowa but because i started slow and gathered my planes over the years i am still able to enjoy the hobby that i love. i hope you will reconsider your thoughts and stay in the hobby and get yourself a trainer and work your way up to the 310 for once it is finished it will still be there when you are ready for it. I think everyone on here will agree that it will be worth the wait. Just remember you chose to do all the upgrades to the 310 and therefore you knew the cost going in. do not let it sour you towards the hobby just learn from it and move forward.
Allen
10-17-2012, 03:51 AM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Dear Allen:
Well, I wondered what kind of replies I would get when I talked about leaving the r/c hobby field. Yes, it's best to start with a trainer, but I knew I would buy a trainer and radio along with the 310. I felt at the time, and still do, that I got a great plane for a great price. The plane was in great shape, had robarts for all three wheels, Meech wheels, Down and Locked electric landing system, top of the line Futaba servos, and I got a super price to buy it. Add up the numbers and you will see why I bought the 310 first.
Next, regardless of whether I started with a trainer or not, it still does NOT contradict the facts that the hobby is very expensive and the shipping costs DOUBLE the price of the items. I may stay with the hobby, sort of dabble in it, maybe displaying my plane at static display meetings, but with all things considered, I still have to ask: is this really worth a couple of thousand dollars for the basic tools and two planes?
Allen, perhaps you are right. Maybe I have to think about this some more. As I stated before, I really like all the people I've met, and I like "tinkering" with the planes. I've also met people who have spent thousands upon thousands of thdollars on planes throughout the years. One guy showed me his motor for a big plane. It cost $5000.00 right out of the box. Maybe there is an attraction I haven't experienced yet.
I just wonder how other r/c flyers feel about the parts and shipping costs. Think about this: every time an item is sold, like thousands of items per day, there is an enormous "mark-up" on product prices, along with the outrageous shipping costs. Each day, companies make thousands of dollars for items that cost pennies to make. Query; is an ARF wing for a 310 really worth $200? If the wings are so valuable, why are flyers having to "foam" wings or add bracing to them? This is just one item. The general items cost nothing, and the profits are immense. I know. I ran my own company. Hobby shops may struggle to make a profit, but the suppliers are another story. Parts from China, like almost all other parts, generate enormous profits. Does anyone really think the Chinese have unions, pension and health funds for employees, and minimum wage standards?
The r/c hobby suppliers know grown men will "shell out" a lot of money for their "baby" projects. That's why I challenge the pricing. I'm ok with companies making profits, even big profits, but what about all the new flyers who get "burned" and quit because things are so expensive? I am lucky. I have the option of participating in the hobby. However, what about all the young kids who have big dreams and a limited checkbook? Will mom shell out five hundred to a thousand dollars for junior to just "get started" in r/c flying? With tought economic times, the r/c flyers need to look at these tough issues to ensure the future of the hobby.
Allen, It's too easy to say I should have just started with a trainer. I'm retired and was ready for a great hobby. At my age, I find my impatience is a virtue.
And, finally, I feel reasonable people can disagree about things in life. Allen, I appreciate your reply, AND, I sincerely value your input regarding work on the 310. You have been a BIG help to me and I thank you!
Best regards,
Orion4455
Well, I wondered what kind of replies I would get when I talked about leaving the r/c hobby field. Yes, it's best to start with a trainer, but I knew I would buy a trainer and radio along with the 310. I felt at the time, and still do, that I got a great plane for a great price. The plane was in great shape, had robarts for all three wheels, Meech wheels, Down and Locked electric landing system, top of the line Futaba servos, and I got a super price to buy it. Add up the numbers and you will see why I bought the 310 first.
Next, regardless of whether I started with a trainer or not, it still does NOT contradict the facts that the hobby is very expensive and the shipping costs DOUBLE the price of the items. I may stay with the hobby, sort of dabble in it, maybe displaying my plane at static display meetings, but with all things considered, I still have to ask: is this really worth a couple of thousand dollars for the basic tools and two planes?
Allen, perhaps you are right. Maybe I have to think about this some more. As I stated before, I really like all the people I've met, and I like "tinkering" with the planes. I've also met people who have spent thousands upon thousands of thdollars on planes throughout the years. One guy showed me his motor for a big plane. It cost $5000.00 right out of the box. Maybe there is an attraction I haven't experienced yet.
I just wonder how other r/c flyers feel about the parts and shipping costs. Think about this: every time an item is sold, like thousands of items per day, there is an enormous "mark-up" on product prices, along with the outrageous shipping costs. Each day, companies make thousands of dollars for items that cost pennies to make. Query; is an ARF wing for a 310 really worth $200? If the wings are so valuable, why are flyers having to "foam" wings or add bracing to them? This is just one item. The general items cost nothing, and the profits are immense. I know. I ran my own company. Hobby shops may struggle to make a profit, but the suppliers are another story. Parts from China, like almost all other parts, generate enormous profits. Does anyone really think the Chinese have unions, pension and health funds for employees, and minimum wage standards?
The r/c hobby suppliers know grown men will "shell out" a lot of money for their "baby" projects. That's why I challenge the pricing. I'm ok with companies making profits, even big profits, but what about all the new flyers who get "burned" and quit because things are so expensive? I am lucky. I have the option of participating in the hobby. However, what about all the young kids who have big dreams and a limited checkbook? Will mom shell out five hundred to a thousand dollars for junior to just "get started" in r/c flying? With tought economic times, the r/c flyers need to look at these tough issues to ensure the future of the hobby.
Allen, It's too easy to say I should have just started with a trainer. I'm retired and was ready for a great hobby. At my age, I find my impatience is a virtue.
And, finally, I feel reasonable people can disagree about things in life. Allen, I appreciate your reply, AND, I sincerely value your input regarding work on the 310. You have been a BIG help to me and I thank you!
Best regards,
Orion4455
10-17-2012, 04:11 AM
#3680
RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
IMHO....I have been in this hobby since I was six years old and that is close to sixty years ago. I have done control line, rc, nitro, gas, and now electrics. You were in WAY over your head. I am an advanced pilot and an excellent builder and I, too, had a 310 wing fold like a house of cards on a good landing. I forked over the $200 for a new wing, glassed it, and got on down the road.
I challenge you to take a look at the excellent RTF planes coming from off shore for under $250 and learn how to fly. Sure, we all want to fly that P-51 or P-38, but come on....does a guy who has his liscense to fly a Cessna 150 climb into a 747 and shove the throttles forward. Give it a rest!
This hobby can be whatever you wish it to be. For me it has been very expensive, very aggravating and frustrating, but I have had a lifetime of ebjoyment and fullfillment. We live in the best time in this hobby of all time with reliable, inexpensive equipment and there is something for everyone.
Bo
I challenge you to take a look at the excellent RTF planes coming from off shore for under $250 and learn how to fly. Sure, we all want to fly that P-51 or P-38, but come on....does a guy who has his liscense to fly a Cessna 150 climb into a 747 and shove the throttles forward. Give it a rest!
This hobby can be whatever you wish it to be. For me it has been very expensive, very aggravating and frustrating, but I have had a lifetime of ebjoyment and fullfillment. We live in the best time in this hobby of all time with reliable, inexpensive equipment and there is something for everyone.
Bo
10-17-2012, 04:22 AM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
I know this discussion has sort of gotten of topic, but I wanted to address the hobby pricing concern. I agree that buying a Cessna as a newbie is like buying a Mclaren F1 as your first car. Yes, it can be done, but why?
I got my friend started in this hobby for under 400. I bought him a Hobbico trainer, field box, starter, etc. Everything he needed to get started and the plane was very easy to fly. He took the plane to a local club near Boston, found a few good flying instructors/friends, and is now addicted to the hobby like I am. If I sold him my p51 because it looked cool, he would definitely have crashed and most likely would be selling the components and moving on. I really think you should consider the basics before moving up. Just like the real airplane world, you don't take private lessons in a 310 for a bunch of really good reasons.
Also, as for pricing. I find it ironic that you own a pair of down n locked landing gear but you think hobby suppliers are expensive. Down n locked charged $500 to convert gear to electric. That's $500 for a few actuators, a little circuit board and some time. Robart, a name brand, only charged $250 for the exact same thing! But people buy down n locked because of the level of service and wonderful warranty. Is it overpriced? I guess that's something the buyer can decide on.
As per the wings, have you ever tried building a set? I promise you that, even if you had the skill and time, it would cost around $200 in balsa and materials not to mention the 50 plus hours it would take to build. I think $200 is more than fair, given they also have a good level of service. Unfortunately in this case, they have had a few failures, but this is a BIG bird.
As for the Chinese parts issue, I don't want to touch that topic other than say its not easy dealing with Chinese vendors. Look at hobbyking as a classic example. Cheap parts, crap service and low prices.
I got my friend started in this hobby for under 400. I bought him a Hobbico trainer, field box, starter, etc. Everything he needed to get started and the plane was very easy to fly. He took the plane to a local club near Boston, found a few good flying instructors/friends, and is now addicted to the hobby like I am. If I sold him my p51 because it looked cool, he would definitely have crashed and most likely would be selling the components and moving on. I really think you should consider the basics before moving up. Just like the real airplane world, you don't take private lessons in a 310 for a bunch of really good reasons.
Also, as for pricing. I find it ironic that you own a pair of down n locked landing gear but you think hobby suppliers are expensive. Down n locked charged $500 to convert gear to electric. That's $500 for a few actuators, a little circuit board and some time. Robart, a name brand, only charged $250 for the exact same thing! But people buy down n locked because of the level of service and wonderful warranty. Is it overpriced? I guess that's something the buyer can decide on.
As per the wings, have you ever tried building a set? I promise you that, even if you had the skill and time, it would cost around $200 in balsa and materials not to mention the 50 plus hours it would take to build. I think $200 is more than fair, given they also have a good level of service. Unfortunately in this case, they have had a few failures, but this is a BIG bird.
As for the Chinese parts issue, I don't want to touch that topic other than say its not easy dealing with Chinese vendors. Look at hobbyking as a classic example. Cheap parts, crap service and low prices.
10-17-2012, 04:30 AM
#3682
RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
...I agree completely re: the Chinese stuff, but if you go in with your eyes open and have the ability to improvise, I have been amazed that what you get for your money...letz face it, the Hobbico and other name brand equipment comes from the same place, but with the name brand stuff like Hobbico we get the great service from Tower, Horizon, or your LHS, and better QC...just have to get priorites in order and move forward....don't expect cuctomer service from Hobby King, Nitro PLanes, Banana, etc.....but, if you can afford it, the airframes and other equipment from 3D Hooby Shop, Aeroworks, et.al., are excellent...but expensive....Bo
10-17-2012, 04:37 AM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Orion4455.
I'm glad to see you are taking the comments others are posting a positive way.
I've been in RC over 45 yrs and have flown everything from very fast, to slow, 3D to IMAC to pattern and so on
They have hit the neail on the head with their comments.
This is a hobby that you progress in based on your ability. Some faster than others. But the folks that I see get into this hobby and then out quickly are the ones that want that $$$$ scale or 40% right away without first learning to fly. They crash because they don't know how to fly or understand the technology and then they are out. I have a friend who did the same thing.
You have a nice C310, now put it away for a while.
Go get yourself a Parkzone T28 and get in with someone at your field who will teach you how to fly the right way. The T28 is a good flying plane that isn't very expensive that can be easily fixed if you prang it. If you think you are going to stay in the hobby, but a descent radio that will give you the programming abilities you will need later. But a descent charger and power supply if you think electrics are in your future. If you but the low end stuff now, you will just rebuy in the future.
Don't get the C310 out until you have absolutely mastered flying the T28 and can do just about anything with it. You also want to know everything about the C310 from charging batteries, to how the retracts work and so on. Keep this in mind. This is a hobby or repetition. Repetition in how your prepare your plane for flight to repetition in flying. AND you should always trat your RC plane like you are going to put your ass in it and fly it. I've had folks who after flying a while would ask me "you think I should refuel the plane before I fly again" well duh!! I would put my ass in it unless you did.
Read, read and read some more. There is lots of good info here and on RC Groups in the areas you might be interested in.
As far as shipping costs, I vote with my $$. If I have to get anything for instance from HK, I know their shipping costs will be high (that's one way they make money) I will wait till I have to get a few items or get with friends to see if they need anything.
Their is another point to this hobby, the social aspect. Get out to the field and become part of that.
You know I have planes that I fly now that range from 200mph F5D stuff to scate 45 lb models. But the one that I have the most fun with week in and week out is my $50 EPP foam Yak55. Point is you don't need the biggest baddest plane at the field to have fun.
Terry
10-18-2012, 12:10 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Pictures of right wing (damaged during first landing on grass field)
[link=http://brookfieldrc.com/cmine/displayimage.php?album=17&pid=216#top_display_media]Brookfield RC pictures[/link]
Apologies for the link, but I'm trying to find the best way to upload multiple pictures for easy viewing. The rcuniverse upload link does not appear to be working...at least for me.
The right wing was pretty beaten up with two broken ribs and a crack that ran from the wing root all the way back to the trailing edge just inside of the flap.
The left wing is shown in the last three pictures. I measured the internal distances between each rib inside the flap area and used epoxy to install Carbon fiber rod to strengthen the area.
[link=http://brookfieldrc.com/cmine/displayimage.php?album=17&pid=216#top_display_media]Brookfield RC pictures[/link]
Apologies for the link, but I'm trying to find the best way to upload multiple pictures for easy viewing. The rcuniverse upload link does not appear to be working...at least for me.
The right wing was pretty beaten up with two broken ribs and a crack that ran from the wing root all the way back to the trailing edge just inside of the flap.
The left wing is shown in the last three pictures. I measured the internal distances between each rib inside the flap area and used epoxy to install Carbon fiber rod to strengthen the area.
10-18-2012, 12:56 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Fidelity,
Your failure looks to me like what we experienced on the ones we have. The failure initially occurs at the flap area and forward by the rear spar.
Everything else is caused from that initial failure.
Terry
10-18-2012, 01:24 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Thanks Chuchuf. We rebuilt the wing by doubling up the front spar and I'll probably end up reinforcing the rear flap section just like I did on the left wing. Hopefully that will prevent any future breaks from anything other than a really bad landing.
10-19-2012, 07:23 AM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Dear fidelity 101: I am in AWE when i look at your pictures. you really had some damage on that wing! WOW! I checked mine and found just a baby hairline crack inside the flaps compartment. Now i realize how lucky i am about not having major wing damage. I'm sorry you have the wing damage. It will take some time, energy, patience, and perseverence, but you will succeed in the repair job. Again, sorry to see the damage.
ALSO, I was thinking about some of the messages on this site and would ask of all readers: WHO DO YOU THINK is (are) the best places to shop. I mean the big on-line shops. which do find are best to work with?
Just wondering. Thanks for any replies. Good luck on the repairs F101! orion4455.
ALSO, I was thinking about some of the messages on this site and would ask of all readers: WHO DO YOU THINK is (are) the best places to shop. I mean the big on-line shops. which do find are best to work with?
Just wondering. Thanks for any replies. Good luck on the repairs F101! orion4455.
10-19-2012, 09:53 AM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Thanks Orien.
I like towerhobbies.com and advantagehobby.com for planes and accessories.
Valuehobby.com is good for batteries, electric motors and escs.
I like towerhobbies.com and advantagehobby.com for planes and accessories.
Valuehobby.com is good for batteries, electric motors and escs.
10-20-2012, 12:24 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Dear fidelity 101 and Chuchuf: Thank you for the replies. They reminded me to ask: I have two JR 2700 mAh 5 cell batteries that are about four years old. they were originally used for just a few flightss, and then stored for future use. will these batteries work well at this point in time? they have been idle for a few years. i haven't started working with them yet, but will soon. what do you think? must i buy new ones, or will JR's work for years?
i await your reply. best, Orion4455.
i await your reply. best, Orion4455.
10-20-2012, 12:32 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
I would charge them and this discharge to see how much capacity they have left. As they get older, they give out less capacity. If they are 75% or lower, I'd probably avoid using them. Also, I'd consider using a smart fly bat share to prevent a single bad battery from destroying your plane.
Personally, I have a smart fly system with two new 5s 2000mah nimh packs plus one 4s for on board glow. I am going to replace all of that with two 2S life packs from hobbico. I want the steady voltage and I'm trying to shave weight. With my recent repair, I added about 50ml of epoxy, lots of wood and some gorilla glue. I think it will still fly well,but I want to keep weight down.
Has anyone commented on the bestl cg point? I am exactly as stated in manual, but it required a fair amount of down elevator to fly level. Speed didn't increase or decrease the need for down elevator, which makes me wonder if it's a balance issue or just my elevator being set to high initially. On my landing, it wanted to go airborne again, so I'm worried I might have a tail heavy issue.
Personally, I have a smart fly system with two new 5s 2000mah nimh packs plus one 4s for on board glow. I am going to replace all of that with two 2S life packs from hobbico. I want the steady voltage and I'm trying to shave weight. With my recent repair, I added about 50ml of epoxy, lots of wood and some gorilla glue. I think it will still fly well,but I want to keep weight down.
Has anyone commented on the bestl cg point? I am exactly as stated in manual, but it required a fair amount of down elevator to fly level. Speed didn't increase or decrease the need for down elevator, which makes me wonder if it's a balance issue or just my elevator being set to high initially. On my landing, it wanted to go airborne again, so I'm worried I might have a tail heavy issue.
11-05-2012, 10:31 AM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
i just ordered a a pair of these: Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 - 5045-500kv Brushless Outrunner Motor , I am hoping that they are suitable for this Cessna 310 Kit.
02-04-2013, 05:36 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
After I bought the 310, I knew it had to be converted to electric power. I removed all most 2 lbs of steel shot from the nose and fabricated battery boxes to install as far fwd in the nose as I could. Its powered with 2 Eflite Power 60's, 2 Castle ICE 100 ESC's and, 2 6s 5000 mAh Zippy batteries. After the maiden and 2 more flights today, this 310 flys awesome. Rock solid with no bad characteristics. TF nailed it with this one!!!
02-04-2013, 05:56 PM
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RE: Top Flite Cessna 310 posted
Hey Bo,
I did put mine in the nacelles and brought the wires out the bottom to charge and hook up i don't have to take anything apart that way and it still flies as good as it did with the ax 55's
Allen
I did put mine in the nacelles and brought the wires out the bottom to charge and hook up i don't have to take anything apart that way and it still flies as good as it did with the ax 55's
Allen