perttime

sooo, what do you do if you want to do a scale model of the Chilocco Indian Agricultural School basketball team ... say from 1909?

frets24

My Feedback: (15)

It is interesting that the swatika, both clockwise and counter clockwise has been used by many societies and cultural groups all over the world since pre-historic times, yet most people only know of or will acknowledge the the swatika as a symbol of the Nazi party use and thereby call it "the most disgusting display I can think of". Narrow minds......

And yes, I do understand that when the swastika is displayed on a German warbird of the period it is intended to depict the Party's use of of the symbol. But what is it when it is used as a "kill" marking on an Allied plane?

tfarmer96

Ya the yellow is the hard one to track down and get right without the rlm#. I usually get the small bottle of model masters put it on a surface then go to home depot and have them color match it with exterior latex. Any way TampaRC looking forward to your thread when you start on this bird.

Luft-Gangster

So you want to use the ostrich approach and act like it never happened and we can all forger about it. Just remember: Those who dont know their history are doomed to repeat its failures. I say keep it right up front so no one ever forgets. Its still just a model.

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

I built a P51D in the same color scheme and a few modelers did find the swastika objectionable. Believe it or not this attitude is a direct reflection of our educational system.

mbuck515

I built my captured P-47 around 2004 and flew it in multiple top guns and scalemasters and local scale events over the years before finally selling it. Both on the ground and in the air the aircraft really presented well, I got alot of questions about it, and it was a 75-25% split between people that did like it and those who dident, the question i usually got was "hey is that your FW-190 over there?" In regards to the yellow on the bottom it was RLM 04, i was able to get a german paint chip code book from frank tiano a few years ago and then just brought the paint chip book to my local automotive paint supply house and they mixed it up pretty quick.

TampaRC

CashD

Not a problem, you just politely tell them, "No, it is the better looking and better performing mustang!"

ackroyd

My Feedback: (8)

p-51 was so good it was turned down by the RAF, who originally set the design spec and ordered it, the Spitfire was found to be superior.

frets24

My Feedback: (15)

While it is true that the Spitty out performed the B model originally presented to thr RAF the subsequent C and D models were superior after the Allison engine was abandoned in favor of the Merlin. By that time, the US had entered the war and was largely responsible for the defense of it's own intrests (bases and airfields, etc) in the UK, and by default the rest of the UK, so the RAF's role, though not insignificant, was largely reduced and negated the need for anything more than the Spitfire. Make no mistake, the Spitty was a wonderful A/C but, it was not a superior A/C...Nor was the P-51 the greatest interceptor/fighter of the war either. Both still cool fighters and it's nice to see something different in the colours on any account.

3136

I don't have a problem with it. My Stuka and 109 have swastikas, my Mustang has them as kill markings as well.
It's odd how no one ever makes a fuss about a Japanese plane, The Japanese did awful things.
The Japanese are not taught about their discraceful acts in China and their murdering of allied POW's
It's a part of history, and should not be swept under the carpet.
BTW I have only had one smart alec comment when someone saw my Stuka with a swastika, he asked me if I was a Nazi, I pointed to my USA marked Mustang and said "no I like WW2 planes" In hindsight I'm glad I brought the Mustang that day.

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

As Iunderstood it, the B and C models were the same aircraft from different plants.. it was the A model that was presented to the Defense Ministry.. I am simply laying out what I have heard, anyone feel free to chime in and adjust fire if what Iam saying is wrong or slightly off..

I do happen to feel that the Spitty and the Stang are two very historically significant aircraft and both are just a joy to watch fly, both full-scale and models..

as far as michaelj878 is concerned with his opinion about sensitivity and political correctness.. well, nobody is keeping you from leaving the conversational table.. I reserve the spot next to me for anyone who has constructive comments and opinions to contribute.

michaelj878

My Feedback: (6)

some things in this world are just on the nose and all wrong, the swastika is one of them.

Mk23socom

My Feedback: (7)

That is simply a matter of opinion, if it bothers you that much, do your best to remove yourself from venues where people have planes that wear the swastika. If you can't stand it, that's your problem, not mine. I happen to believe it represents a significant part of world history and if someone wants to model a German warbird complete with the swastika, I support that. It does not offend me in the least and many Jewish people I have met have no ill feelings toward the symbol. However, it does offend me when someone comes along and refuses to acknowledge another person's right  to have their own opinion. You don't like it, I have no problem with that.. you have said so and let's leave it at that.. let's let the conversation get back to the point that was started by the OP. If you want to kick dirt and spit about how offensive the swastika is to you, please be sure not to visit this thread again..

frets24

My Feedback: (15)

Mk23socom, You are correct. I just muddled my series id's Should read ..Spittys out performed the A models and early B-C models until introduction of the Merlin engine retro fit and standard production Merlin engined D models. All production versions outranged the Spitty. Good catch

And yes, ALL of the Spitty's and Mustangs are a joy to see and were among the great A/C in history and today.

Meant to address the OP as well...Some may consider it a sacrilige to model a "captured" version but, in the scale model community we model history as it was. Not how some may wish it was. I like to see variations of theme so it's nice to see something other than the same colours over and over. The captured versions are fair game and and if that's your flavor I say "carry on'! (and by all means show us some pics when you're done)

Hopefully no-one of tender sensibilities tour the US southwest...The indiginous tribes carved swastikas all over the place in the rock formations and elsewhere over a thousand years before Adolf co-opted the symbol...YIKES!!!

H5606

I don't get it; out of all my years of aeromodeling, I've never heard other modelers express any anguish over Nazi swastikas on model airplanes. It seems as though some individuals seek satisfaction over controversy or offense created where there really is none. It's as if they're looking to raise some eyebrows for the pure satisfaction over the shock value. The only people I see pitching a fit are those who have airplanes with swastikas on these forums. When I was a youngster, I used to assemble scale, plastic models. Shelves in hobby shops had lots of WWII Luftwaffe airplanes and they must have sold well as they continue to do so today albiet with the politically corrected absent tail markings on the box art along with the assemble-it-yourself "puzzle" swastikas.

I like the 87, 88, 110, 111, 123, 129, 163, 262, 335 and even the 47 and 51 not because they may have had swastikas on them but rather because they're cool looking aircraft. Decorating an airplane and expecting to derive satisfaction from a negative reaction because of the symbol it may carry is a waste of time.

What really bothers me is these same individuals' indifference, apathy, or ignorance toward the frequent butchering of their own (U.S.) national insignia even when they appear on products they buy or, god forbid, sell. Since we're losing our eye for such details, the Chinese are continuing to make leaps and bounds and getting position and orientation of markings correct on the BARFs we consume... How come nobody ever gets upset over this issue?

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

To answer the original question..........

We get what we vote for.

Political correctness is crippling our country.

Remember this on November 6th.

3136

I think you have mis interpreted things, the only person who commented here who could be referred to as "pitching a fit" was michaelj878 (and yourself), who objected to the use of the sastika, so I really dont understand your comment.
Everyone else, including myselfhas expressed no problem with the matter.

H5606

Oh.

GerKonig

So the Chinese are putting the stickers in the right spot in our toys, and I have to get upset? Not likely...

Gerry

Joespeeder

Hey Guys,

I have several German warbirds all flying with scale schemes sporting swastikas. Never bothered me as it is historic and looks correct on a warbird. The swastika is expected and gets lost in a group of warbirds as just another emblem.

However, outside the context of the warbird arena I have to admit I get more sensitive.

Besides warbirds, I love scale vintage gliders. Many of the really cool ones were flown with the swastika on the tail.

I have to say I have a very hard time adding the swastica to the tail of a glider as it seems more visually intrusive somehow. I guess cause it will be (generally) unique in the group of gliders and will stand out unlike in warbird groups where it is expected and tends to blend in.

I am looking at a couple of scale schemes for a Minimoa and a Kranich right now. Both should have the symbol and I probably will decide at the last moment how I treat the tail detailing.


As others have said it is historically correct. However, it just feels different for me when its added to the more "gentle" side of the sport. What if I tried to slope soar a scale ship in a state park? It does get a little weird feeling....










Joe

perttime

I suppose German gliders of that period could be considered warbirds too. If you are uneasy about the swastika in soaring locations, you could use schemes from some other country. the Swedish Air Force used Kranichs, complete with Tre Kronor roundels, for example.

BTW, one of the coolest airshow performances I've seen was done using a DFS Habicht reproduction glider (in totally civilian scheme). During WW2, a clipped wing version was used for training Me 163 pilots.

TampaRC

I'm not sure if this part of my question got answered. Does the olive drab and silver on this plane appear to be the original US paint, while the Germans just added the yellow and graphics?

perttime

It does.
Looks like Zirkus Rosarius left many of the planes partly in original paint (or lack of). Some where painted in distinctly German colors, which didn't include bare aluminum or silver.

Joespeeder

TampaRC,

Be sure to check here for info on captured warbirds.


http://www.luftarchiv.de/beute/usa/index.htm






Joe