mac49

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Bob, I received my 3 view drawings from Jim Morrow today. They included the Model 95 and Model 40 mail planes. My copies were measured scale drawings which will assist me in confirming the measurements as I transfer them to paper. I've already done a preliminary layout of the fuselage in quarter scale based on the Cleveland drawings on paper. I'm using a very vintage drafting arm that I purchased sometime ago on ebay. There are a few corrections to be made from the Morrow Drawings but they were pretty close. My structure will be conventional but beefed up to support a large single cylinder motor. I have a ST G4500 available and a 98cc 2cycle I'm converting to E85 on glow. With the large engine I'll need to carve my own prop since it only turns over at 4k. (Most props are designed for twice that RPM.) My guess-timate is I'll need about 16inches of pitch to get scale cruising speed out of it. Top on the full size was only 150 mph. At quarter scale I'll be looking at slower than forty. We have a reasonable access to fir lumber in this area so I've already manufactured my sticks on the table saw. Eden Saw up at Port Townsend WA is supplying the marine plywood for the formers and etc. I've got a set of MX bicycle rims that are going to be pressed into service as part of the landing gear. Taking the tires off and using heater hose will make them more scale like and only a little oversize. Good luck on your build. I'm really slow and easily distracted by photography. I'm heading over to NY later this week for the fall colors, Niagra Falls, Finger Lakes, and the Glenn Curtiss Museum at Hammondsport NY. I'm still on the hook for completing a 33% Grumman G164B (AgCat) I started in 2006 but go tied up by my job. No longer an issue. Mark

retransit

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Wow, talk about ambitious!

Good luck on your progress with the Model 95. Thought about doing a build thread?

Going to New York and you don't have Rhinebeck on the schedule? Last airshow on October 14th.

How long did it take to get your drawings from the time you mailed out the order?

Bob

mac49

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Bob, it was about a week, but I just live across the Puget Sound from Seattle. I was hoping Rhinebeck was closer to Niagra Falls but its much closer to NY City and would require about a days drive each way. Another time. I can't say I'm really ambitious because I'm still working on the Grumman that I started in late 2006. A lot of the same issues can be solved on it as with the Model 95 so I should get them done about the same time. I've built up my equipment and skills since I started on that aircraft and plan on doing some welding on metal attachment points and landing gear to make them stronger. There are a few pictures of the work I was doing on it located in the early sections of the thread on the Gruman AgCat. In my defense for not getting it completed: my previous employer, the US Navy, kept me on the go for the last 6 years of employment as a civilian. When I was on active duty with them there was no possibility of working on any projects of this type. I'm retired now as a civilian and as a former member. Now I let my photography and spouse, who likes to travel and go camping, be the distractions. I'll get them done. The Model 40 looks like a really interesting model also. Another source of 3-views for Boeing Aircraft could be the Seattle Museum of Flight. I think I got a copy of the general arrangement for the Model 80 that is on display at the Museum from them. I believe it was about $20.00 at the time. The Model 80 was a three engine bi-plane passenger liner that came out long before the Model 247. I have photos of it on display but not nearly as nice as those taken of the Model 40B-4. Different camera. Mark

mac49

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Bob, I've included some of the pictures of the Boeing Model 80 on my website to give you more details on what is to be expected on their aircraft. Mark

retransit

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OK, I'll take a look.

Bob

retransit

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I looked at the Model 80. Another really nice subject, but then I like most biplanes.

By the way, the snail mail just arrived with my Model 40 three-views from Mr. Morrow, eight days from when I mailed the order in. He even refunded one dollar. Nice to do business with him. Not like the auto striping tape I received from Autothing.com. That's another story.

Now I have no excuse to proceed. Wait, I think I have a Fleet to paint. Well I can think about it anyway.

Bob

retransit

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I looked at the three-views of the 40C I received today and although they are stated on Mr. Morrow's webpage as 1/24, they are not. Anyway, I have a multiiplier settled on and with that I can produce what I hope is a working plan.

One thing that is bothering me though is the availability of a suitable radial engine. I was thinking of using the Evolution gas 160 cc engine. The only problem is that it has seven cylinders, not nine as on the prototype. I may have to go with the 99cc glow at nine cylinders and reduce the size to 1/5 scale (approximately 106" w.s.). That would allow a better transport of the model because I can then build the top wing in one piece and the fuse would only be about 66". I'm not sure on the weight of the finished model. I'm hoping for something less than 26 lbs. That 99cc engine has a diameter of about ten inches and the full size Pratt was about fifty-one inches.

Bob

mac49

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Bob, Good to hear you received the plans. I'd love to be able to afford one of those radials but it'll never be in my budget. The level of scale you are proposing would be wonderful to behold and I'll be with everyone else following your build thread with great envy. I'm going to settle for much less detail at a more affordable price. If my hobby gets too expensive I know someone who would put a damper on it. I'm going to hide my big thumpers behind a balsa facade and be happy! Even better, if I finally get one done and in the air.... I'm looking forward to seeing the continuation of your build thread and may post periodically some of my own progress on the Model 95. I anticipate your's will be done long before mine is. I'll be going back to the Museum of Flight later this year, is there an area that you need additional photos for details? In Niagra Falls at the moment. Mark

thailazer

Congrats to you guys working on Boeing 40's. A great airplane, and I was fortunate to see the full scale version in the construction phase at Felts Field in Spokane a few times. Always a group of nice people there at Addison Pemberton's hangar.

Not to hijack the thread, but does anyone know of CAD software that is customized for model airplane purposes? I am familiar with the programs like Solid Works and AutoCad, but I would rather get something with a more straight-forward approach. (For instance, using Home Design Studio, you can design a house in two hours, but much longer with an full bore CAD program.) I scratch build a lot and normally draw up minimal plans which aren't worth keeping in the end, nor suitable for others to use.

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

Check out this link:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11...m.htm#11267512

Bob

mac49

My Feedback: (5)

Good morning, welcome to standard time.

I have completed my initial translation of Jim Morrow's three-view into building sketches using manual drafting methods. I seem to retain that process better than the CAD software I purchased. I'm attaching a composite photo I took of the general fuselage building sketch. Overall length is 96 inches. I am deviating from the original aircraft in a number of areas to try out a few pet building methods, hinges, wing attachment, fir building material, plywood, etc. I'm also adding a cowl even though I have not found any evidence that the Model 95 ever had one. There was one Model 40B that had a cowl included when it was originally outfited with the PW Hornet but I believe it was later removed. Hoping this will reduce the need for the hugh effort to simulate the Hornet engine for this prototype. Primary structural material will be 3/8" X 3/8" fir that I cut on my table saw. I'm also using fir plywood for the firewall and mahogny for the thinner ply. The forward part of the fuselage is sheathed in either balsa or mahogny venner. Boeing went to a corregated metal covering on the tail that I will not be duplicating so it will be fabric. Initially I'll be setting this up to use the ST G4500 but I have a conversion engine I'd like to eventually try. At the bottom of the drawing is a sketch of a possible prop hub that would support a hand made prop since the engine turns over near 4k rpm. It weights twice what the ST does but it is three times the displacement and should swing a more scale like prop. Wings are removable as panels (upper 54", lower 48"; overall 132") and so is the stabilizer (48"). I will be using unscale MX bicycle rims (12.5 wheels with tires removed) with heater hose attached for the wheels. They're are about 10inches in diameter and will support 100lb with no problem. Fun scale at its best. Mine is a long term build so I'll from time to time post my progress. I'm getting encouragement from friends on getting my other long term project, Grumman AgCat going again. It has been in the works since about 2006.

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

With my mathematical genius at work (a calculator) I envision 1/4 scale. Is that right?

If you are still planning to go back to the Museum of Flight, and the offer of photos is still on, let me know before you go. I have to look at what I might need.

I've bogged down with the plans for now. I'm trying to finish my Fleet. I'm up to paint and I'm currently doing the roundels with paint masks. Here is a short video on painting a wing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5xvz...1&feature=plcp

Bob

mac49

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Bob - it be quarter scale. Like the video on painting especially the fixture. I'm going to be building one in the near future. That really is slick. My garage gets draped for a painting booth. Our weather in the Pacific NW works great for evergreen trees but there is a small window for outside painting in the summer. Making a fixture on wheels to handle the fuselages would be the right way to go, THANKS.

Unfortunately I've been to the Museum of Flight last week. I did take more pictures of the bare fuselage but nothing additional on the display. Let me know what you need because I did't post all my pictures of the 40B and I might have it in those unpublished.

Was that a wing of a Fleet Bi-plane being painted? I posted some that I had taken of the one on display in San Diego. Really a bright blue and yellow!

retransit

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OK, thanks for the offer on the pics. When I get to it I'll let you know what I may need.

You hit it on the head. It's a Concept Fleet built from plans. My previous version met its demise at my hand.

In case you didn't see it, here is a link to the fixture video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG-j-...3&feature=plcp

Bob

mac49

My Feedback: (5)

Bob thanks. I'll converted the U-Tube into a larger fixture. Mine are a bit larger and heavier. Kinda like Baby Huey. Will be like roasting a big turkey.

I've included two pix of the San Diego Fleet Bi-plane. At the time I was there I didn't have the camera to get a complete picture. That area of their displays was a bit packed. Easy to get color and details though. It would look nice in one third scale! You did a great job on the detail with yours. Mark

retransit

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That copper tube fuel line doesn't look legal to me.

Bob

mac49

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There's a matching fuel line on the other side too. They do look rather unslghtly.

daleflysrc

My Feedback: (26)

Have you tried contacting Boeing Aircraft to see if they may have some drawings in their archives ??

Here is a neat pic of a fleet at the Naval musium in Pensacola !! I have a soft spot for the F3F myself !!

Dale

mac49

My Feedback: (5)

Dale,

The Museum of Flight in Seattle does have a Boeing Model 40B4 on display. It is possible they may have drawings for it. I did get a set of general drawings from them some years ago for the Model 80 they also have on display. They have a website that can be Googled. Jim Morrow got his drawings for his 3-views somewhere. Maybe Boeing will make them available or the company in Spokane WA that did the restoration might make them available.

I agree with you on the Flying Barrel. I have pictures on film of the one in Florida but here are a few snap shoots of the one in the Smithsonian in its civilian garb:

retransit

My Feedback: (18)

After taking a back seat to finishing my quater-scale Fleet, I've resumed the Boeing Model 40 project. What I have found is that the drawings produced by Morrow and Nye are not completly accurate. As an example, on Morrow's drawings I found that on one sheet it had two different fuselage lengths and the scale ruler on the bottom was innacurate. The fuselage length on another sheet did not match the first sheet in either case. Also the fuse cross section did not match the side view drawing on the same page. So much for accuracy.

Since I'm not going for exact scale, I'll have bring in the fudge-factor and make it look "right". My intent is to re-create a miniature flying version of the prototype and add as much detail as I can to make it a visually acceptable copy.

I have settled on one-fifth scale with an Evolution 99cc nine cylinder radial for power. I have a picture in my mind of it flying while Jimmy Buffet sings "Silver Wings".

Bob

buzzard bait

Bob, I'm currently designing a sport model biplane that will have a 68 inch wingspan and be powered by an OS 95V FS. I don't have to worry about accuracy of course, but what is taking time for me is structure. I really want a light and strong airplane. I know how to do that in smaller scales, but this is something new. I spend a lot of time looking at other people's designs and trying to find the lightest approaches from each of them, emphasizing designers that have a good reputation. Often designers use much more structure than is necessary. The plane flies, but not as well as it could. For biplanes I think it is especially important to keep it light, and even more so if you want scale-like flight. So have you looked at a lot of other designs of this size?

Jim

retransit

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Jim, I haven't looked at a lot, but I'm using the on-third scale Fleet compared to the one-quarter scale version. The one-quarter uses 1/4" spruce for the box fuselage structure and the one-third uses 5/16". If I'm correct, that increases the cross sectional area by 50% and correspondingly the structures strength. If my guess is correct, the weight should probably be around 32 lbs., give or take a couple of pounds.

Even if I'm way off on the high side, I have plenty of wiggle room. I project 3410 sq. in. of wing area. In my Wing Cube Loading chart, I get the following:

@ 32 lbs. - 21.62 oz. wing loading, Cube Loading of 4.44

@ 35 lbs. - 23.65 oz. wing loading, Cube Loading of 4.86

@ 38 lbs. - 25.68 oz. wing loading, Cube Loading of 5.28

These WCL numbers fall into the low end of trainers, park fliers & 3D at 5-7 wcl.

We all overbuild our structures. What I don't want to do is see the fuse break in half with a rough landing, or have the engine separate in flight because of a miscalculation.

Bob

retransit

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I received a wood shipment from Aircraft Spruce today. Nice stuff and priced right. What I liked was that I was able to specify the length needed thereby negating the need for splices on the fuselage. The longest that you can get from some model outlets is 48" and mine are 72". I also bought some .8mm (1/32") plywood at about 1/3 the price Tower gets for it. $14.50 for 24 inches by 48 inches.

Bob