Top Flite AT6 ARF
11-07-2012, 08:23 PM
#627
RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
I try to avoid heating as it can accelerate a cure to the point it sets before you get everything where you need it. Fast curing can also be brittle, (which is what you frequently find with standard, hardware store 5 minute epoxy). You can also thin it a touch with alcohol or methanol. I use that often when fuelproofing or ensuring a good penetration into the wood structure. The one caveat is it needs to be done lightly to allow a good cure.
When working with thin epoxy I sometimes just do the wetting of the wood with it, then work a structural bond area with full-strength epoxy or a mix with FLOX. Even then, if I make a flub and the mix is deemed too thick I can add methanol to get it back where I need. Only a few drops are required in either case. In some cases thinning the mix actually slows the cure slightly.
When working with thin epoxy I sometimes just do the wetting of the wood with it, then work a structural bond area with full-strength epoxy or a mix with FLOX. Even then, if I make a flub and the mix is deemed too thick I can add methanol to get it back where I need. Only a few drops are required in either case. In some cases thinning the mix actually slows the cure slightly.
11-07-2012, 08:57 PM
#628
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
I'll try to heat it but do a test to see how long it takes to set. However if it makes it brittle I don't care for that too much....Tightbond or Gorilla glue still sounds possible if I get everything orginized and work fast enough. It would also serve to tighten up those loose joiners.
I'm sure by the time this build is done some of these question will seem unimportant, but this is the first time I've built a wing with only one attach point and I want to be sure I get it built the right way.
1. Did you guys join both wings to the center section at the same time?
2. What's the best method to securly hold the wings together while they cure?
3. Did you just use epoxy just on the wing joiners - or between the ribs too?
Thanks for the help,
Dick
I'm sure by the time this build is done some of these question will seem unimportant, but this is the first time I've built a wing with only one attach point and I want to be sure I get it built the right way.
1. Did you guys join both wings to the center section at the same time?
2. What's the best method to securly hold the wings together while they cure?
3. Did you just use epoxy just on the wing joiners - or between the ribs too?
Thanks for the help,
Dick
11-08-2012, 02:39 AM
#630
RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
Gorilla glue works fine for dihedral braces. I have used it instead of epoxy for 86 inch wingspan warbirds. I usually do one side at a time. When cured, I use gorilla glue for the other side of the brace, and 30 minute epoxy on the joining rib faces. I draw the 2 sides together by attaching rubber bands on the leading edge dowels on the front, and inserting a pair of wing bolts in the corresponding holes near the trailing edge and adding rubber bands there. Finally, I will insert some modeling pins where needed to keep everything in alignment.
Keep a supply of paper towels and some acetone available to wipe up any seepage until the glues set. May not be the best method, but it works for me!
Keep a supply of paper towels and some acetone available to wipe up any seepage until the glues set. May not be the best method, but it works for me!
11-08-2012, 04:01 AM
#631
RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
Don't take the previous post the wrong way as I use G/G for a lot of apps, including hinges. My only restriction is there must be an escape path for excess or the structure can split.
The other concern is once the glue begins to expand it must ABSOLUTELY NOT MOVE!!! The strength will be severely compromised if disturbed as it will set now in the new orientation and can leave gaps.
The other concern is once the glue begins to expand it must ABSOLUTELY NOT MOVE!!! The strength will be severely compromised if disturbed as it will set now in the new orientation and can leave gaps.
11-08-2012, 06:53 AM
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
Excellent information, thank you......
The one thing I don't like is the sloppy fit of those wing joiners and the fact they are the only means of correctly alligning the wings, so GG or maybe Tightbond will satisfy my concern.
At this point Lifer's description of his approach appeals to me best. I just need to be certain if I use GG, to apply it conservatively and not disturb it.
Thanks again, I'm sure it'll turn out fine if I use just use my head and take my time.
Dick
The one thing I don't like is the sloppy fit of those wing joiners and the fact they are the only means of correctly alligning the wings, so GG or maybe Tightbond will satisfy my concern.
At this point Lifer's description of his approach appeals to me best. I just need to be certain if I use GG, to apply it conservatively and not disturb it.
Thanks again, I'm sure it'll turn out fine if I use just use my head and take my time.
Dick
11-08-2012, 08:35 AM
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
The joint was definately loose vertically and sideways but I CA'd balsa shims to the joiner back sides, sanded to snug fit and dry fitted the entire assembly. There's still slight looseness up and down but I think it'll be okay.
Dick
Dick
11-08-2012, 10:16 AM
#637
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
Dick,
I think that will be okay. I have a friend who work for Boeing. He told me you want to have some flex in the wing. Glad to hear the build is going good.
Just wait to you fly her!!!
Sonny
aka
jet22b
I think that will be okay. I have a friend who work for Boeing. He told me you want to have some flex in the wing. Glad to hear the build is going good.
Just wait to you fly her!!!
Sonny
aka
jet22b
11-08-2012, 02:48 PM
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
Regarding the retract problems so many guys seem to be having.... I experienced the same cracking of the mounting tabs on the factory gear. I finally smartened up. I took them out, bought some electric retracts from Hobby King for $7.49 each, the factory struts plug right in (5mm I think), and they work exceptionally well. They are scale like, use very little power, and have the fail safe mechanism all the $100+ sets advertise. I'd even swear they are the same retracts. I install them with a 1/16" plywood "U" that covers the mounting tabs at a cost of about thirty cents. I have over 100 flights on mine, no issues. I try to keep a bit of power on all the way to final, and when I'm about 6 inches off the ground, it slides right in. I only mess up once in a while when there's a stronger cross wind. It gets a little hairy slipping it, with or without flaps.
11-09-2012, 03:41 AM
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14838
If you cut and paste the above link it will take you right there. I use them in my H9 Spitfire as well. The Spit was first. I wrote a story about it you can check out on the Model Airplane News web page. Just search "Tony Iannucelli" on there and it should pop up. They also fit in the 50 size warbirds, the 60 size TF Mustang, and TF P-47. I use the struts from those planes and they plug right in. Latest project is the new Dirty Birdy. Perfect fit, HK retracts, TF struts. Hope this helps. I'm telling you they are great!
If you cut and paste the above link it will take you right there. I use them in my H9 Spitfire as well. The Spit was first. I wrote a story about it you can check out on the Model Airplane News web page. Just search "Tony Iannucelli" on there and it should pop up. They also fit in the 50 size warbirds, the 60 size TF Mustang, and TF P-47. I use the struts from those planes and they plug right in. Latest project is the new Dirty Birdy. Perfect fit, HK retracts, TF struts. Hope this helps. I'm telling you they are great!
11-09-2012, 04:59 AM
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
You're welcome! One tip you might find helpful... the 3mm set screw on each side of the strut should not be loctited in or you will never get the screw out. Just put a second screw on each side of the strut and you'll have no worries. Also, be careful about inserting the struts all the way in or they will hang up on the case. Just put them in until you can see the top of the strut poking out of the rotating block. Be sure to use a plywood "U" which gives excellent strength to the mounting tabs. -Tony
11-10-2012, 09:10 PM
#643
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
The wing is set aside and epoxy is curing after a great deal of trouble. I finally decided to drive 50 mi R/T to find some 30 min epoxy but despite efforts of taking my time and prepping the wing assembly, it was a huge surprise to find the Devcon 2 Ton, 30min Epoxy started curing within less than 15 minutes. If that wasn't enough, one of the wire flap joiners wouldn't line up and I had to cut it and make another. Then one of the new bungies I was using came apart and the whole thing let go. I hope the epoxy for the first wing that was joined will be okay. That was one major PITA let me just say, and I was one PO'd Top Flite AT-6 ARF wing assembler.
There's a ugly gap around the LE of the horiz stab where it joins the fuse so I assume the inside of the fuselage slot where the stab fits will need some sanding and custom fitting. Maybe after sanding the gap, whatever remains can be filled in with epoxy and miro balloons or something. I've never used micro balloons gor anything yet though.
Thanks,
Dick
There's a ugly gap around the LE of the horiz stab where it joins the fuse so I assume the inside of the fuselage slot where the stab fits will need some sanding and custom fitting. Maybe after sanding the gap, whatever remains can be filled in with epoxy and miro balloons or something. I've never used micro balloons gor anything yet though.
Thanks,
Dick
11-11-2012, 09:43 PM
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
ORIGINAL: Capt Easy
The wing is set aside and epoxy is curing after a great deal of trouble. I finally decided to drive 50 mi R/T to find some 30 min epoxy but despite efforts of taking my time and prepping the wing assembly, it was a huge surprise to find the Devcon 2 Ton, 30min Epoxy started curing within less than 15 minutes. If that wasn't enough, one of the wire flap joiners wouldn't line up and I had to cut it and make another. Then one of the new bungies I was using came apart and the whole thing let go. I hope the epoxy for the first wing that was joined will be okay. That was one major PITA let me just say, and I was one PO'd Top Flite AT-6 ARF wing assembler.
There's a ugly gap around the LE of the horiz stab where it joins the fuse so I assume the inside of the fuselage slot where the stab fits will need some sanding and custom fitting. Maybe after sanding the gap, whatever remains can be filled in with epoxy and miro balloons or something but I'm not familiar with micro balloons yet so not sure if that's what's needed.
Thanks,
Dick
The wing is set aside and epoxy is curing after a great deal of trouble. I finally decided to drive 50 mi R/T to find some 30 min epoxy but despite efforts of taking my time and prepping the wing assembly, it was a huge surprise to find the Devcon 2 Ton, 30min Epoxy started curing within less than 15 minutes. If that wasn't enough, one of the wire flap joiners wouldn't line up and I had to cut it and make another. Then one of the new bungies I was using came apart and the whole thing let go. I hope the epoxy for the first wing that was joined will be okay. That was one major PITA let me just say, and I was one PO'd Top Flite AT-6 ARF wing assembler.
There's a ugly gap around the LE of the horiz stab where it joins the fuse so I assume the inside of the fuselage slot where the stab fits will need some sanding and custom fitting. Maybe after sanding the gap, whatever remains can be filled in with epoxy and miro balloons or something but I'm not familiar with micro balloons yet so not sure if that's what's needed.
Thanks,
Dick
11-12-2012, 09:57 AM
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
I hear you Loud and clear. I think the difficult construction part is done......the wing is epoxied and cured. Whether it's structuraly sound I'll find out eventually one way or the other.
The tail section is nearing completion except for the rudder. I'm holding off on that till I study about installing a more scale looking tailwheel. Gaps on the horiz stab and the wing join covers will be filled in at some point once I find out how to deal with it.
I plan on scaling this plane out as much as I can once it's close to competion and post some photos. Maybe even change the color scheme....
Thanks,
Dick
The tail section is nearing completion except for the rudder. I'm holding off on that till I study about installing a more scale looking tailwheel. Gaps on the horiz stab and the wing join covers will be filled in at some point once I find out how to deal with it.
I plan on scaling this plane out as much as I can once it's close to competion and post some photos. Maybe even change the color scheme....
Thanks,
Dick
11-12-2012, 11:00 AM
#648
Senior Member
RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
Dick;
I have use Devcon 2 Ton 30 min epoxy in the past and you are so right about the fast curing time!!! I have been in the hobby for over the past 30+ years and build a lot of kits and some of the epoxy we have now, have me thinking!! Putting wings together, I need that 30 min work time. Now if you are looking for a good filler, if you have a home deport in your town, pick up some Elmer's Carpenters Wood Filler. Very easy to work and sand. I am using this stuff on a Top Flite Spitfire kit I am building right. Let us see your work and like I said before, be ready to enjoy this plane!!
Sonny
aka
jet22b
I have use Devcon 2 Ton 30 min epoxy in the past and you are so right about the fast curing time!!! I have been in the hobby for over the past 30+ years and build a lot of kits and some of the epoxy we have now, have me thinking!! Putting wings together, I need that 30 min work time. Now if you are looking for a good filler, if you have a home deport in your town, pick up some Elmer's Carpenters Wood Filler. Very easy to work and sand. I am using this stuff on a Top Flite Spitfire kit I am building right. Let us see your work and like I said before, be ready to enjoy this plane!!
Sonny
aka
jet22b
11-12-2012, 12:53 PM
#649
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
IMHO - Epo Grip is a lot better, spreads like Vaseline and the cure time is accurate. Just ask Minnflyer. Everytime he did a build review, he extoled the virtues of Epo Grip.
11-12-2012, 02:09 PM
#650
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RE: Top Flite AT6 ARF
ORIGINAL: maddieone
IMHO - Epo Grip is a lot better, spreads like Vaseline and the cure time is accurate. Just ask Minnflyer. Everytime he did a build review, he extoled the virtues of Epo Grip.
IMHO - Epo Grip is a lot better, spreads like Vaseline and the cure time is accurate. Just ask Minnflyer. Everytime he did a build review, he extoled the virtues of Epo Grip.
I forgot about that!!! Yes I have read all his reviews and he did talk a lot about the epoxy. Winter time is here and I got some planes to build. I will put that on my list to try.
Thanks again for the info!!!
Sonny
aka
jet22b
