Resin coating a arf ?
11-23-2012, 05:26 PM
#1
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Resin coating a arf ?
Hello,
I have a arf that I stripped the covering on. I want to cover it with aluminum tape. So I need to smooth out the surface before applying the aluminum covering tape. Can I get away with just appling a coat of resin to the fuse and sand to fill the wood grain and get a smooth surface, or do I need to use fiberglass with resin?
I'm thinking that the covering I took off didn't provide much strength, so I wanted to just fill and smooth out the wood before I applied the metal skin tape.
Any advise would be great
Jb
I have a arf that I stripped the covering on. I want to cover it with aluminum tape. So I need to smooth out the surface before applying the aluminum covering tape. Can I get away with just appling a coat of resin to the fuse and sand to fill the wood grain and get a smooth surface, or do I need to use fiberglass with resin?
I'm thinking that the covering I took off didn't provide much strength, so I wanted to just fill and smooth out the wood before I applied the metal skin tape.
Any advise would be great
Jb
11-23-2012, 08:02 PM
#5
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
Since no-one wants to give you a serious reply, I'll chime in here.
If you are going to use flight metal or equivalent, you'll want to glass the bare wood. The resin will give you a smooth and relatively hard surface , but over time the grain in the balsa will statrt to split or open up and the thin flightmetal will tear or crease at these places. If you are already contemplating a resin covering, the fiberglass cloth is really an inexpensive addition, negligible weight addition, and not really worth mentioning as far as extra hassel, so why not glass it?
Good luck and happy modeling.
Whatcha workin' on?
If you are going to use flight metal or equivalent, you'll want to glass the bare wood. The resin will give you a smooth and relatively hard surface , but over time the grain in the balsa will statrt to split or open up and the thin flightmetal will tear or crease at these places. If you are already contemplating a resin covering, the fiberglass cloth is really an inexpensive addition, negligible weight addition, and not really worth mentioning as far as extra hassel, so why not glass it?
Good luck and happy modeling.
Whatcha workin' on?
11-23-2012, 08:10 PM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
I am comverting an old trusty great planes cessna 182 46 to electric. Im gonna add flaps and cover it with flite metal. Any better ways to get this thing ready to use the flite metal?
Jb
Jb
11-24-2012, 06:56 AM
#8
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: darth heli
I was thinking I would wrap it around the prop. Anyways, any real advise? Is this a dumb question?
Jb
I was thinking I would wrap it around the prop. Anyways, any real advise? Is this a dumb question?
Jb
11-24-2012, 10:23 AM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
Its not a bad idea, I have put coats of straight resin on alot of airplanes I have, but I would say use .75 oz cloth. You will not add much thickness and I don't care about weight, so i would use the cloth also.
11-24-2012, 10:46 AM
#10
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
You should always care about weight on an airplane. There is an old saying that goes like this; looks like a piano and flies like one too... 
Bob
Bob
11-24-2012, 12:11 PM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
Hi!
If it's a small.46 plane forget about covering with flitemetal! It will be too much weight!
a much better way is to cover the plane with 25g glas and 24 hour epoxy and use chrome Oracover,wet sanded to an aluminium look on piece of glass. Or just use Oracover!
If it's a small.46 plane forget about covering with flitemetal! It will be too much weight!
a much better way is to cover the plane with 25g glas and 24 hour epoxy and use chrome Oracover,wet sanded to an aluminium look on piece of glass. Or just use Oracover!
11-24-2012, 03:35 PM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: sensei
You should always care about weight on an airplane. There is an old saying that goes like this; looks like a piano and flies like one too...
Bob
You should always care about weight on an airplane. There is an old saying that goes like this; looks like a piano and flies like one too...
Bob
I care about the weight, but I've built small Sig airplanes that came out 5 pounds over the weight range and they flew just fine, so I don't let the small stuff get to me on weight. If it gets too light than a small breeze would cancel out your day of flying. A little heavier airplane handles more wind.
11-24-2012, 04:42 PM
#13
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
OK, here we go LOL. Your 5 lb. airplane can easily be built ready to fly at around 3 lbs. your current 5 lb. airplane at 3 lbs. would fly like nothing you have experienced before. I have already done this for others. Lighter flies better have no mistake about it. If you are having trouble flying a light airplane in the wind then you just need more practice, it's really that simple. Heavier airplanes flying better in the wind is just a myth, and I have spent years proving that fact to thousands in my build threads and in many videos over the years.
Here is a old video of my 40% Carden competition airplane built back in a time that everyone was building them at a weight of 38-46 lbs. Mine came in at 28 lbs. ready to fly and when it did it created huge wave in the modeling community. anyway it's all ancient history now. Please keep in mind that this is not my video, it is just one of many out there on this airplane and several other of my hyper light airplanes.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...9AJqSqAAwuZPNQ
Here is a old video of my 40% Carden competition airplane built back in a time that everyone was building them at a weight of 38-46 lbs. Mine came in at 28 lbs. ready to fly and when it did it created huge wave in the modeling community. anyway it's all ancient history now. Please keep in mind that this is not my video, it is just one of many out there on this airplane and several other of my hyper light airplanes.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...9AJqSqAAwuZPNQ
11-24-2012, 04:48 PM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: LargeScale88
Its not a bad idea, I have put coats of straight resin on alot of airplanes I have, but I would say use .75 oz cloth. You will not add much thickness and I don't care about weight, so i would use the cloth also.
Its not a bad idea, I have put coats of straight resin on alot of airplanes I have, but I would say use .75 oz cloth. You will not add much thickness and I don't care about weight, so i would use the cloth also.
11-24-2012, 05:26 PM
#15
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
I don't think anyone has mentioned it but if you are really planning on going electric, weight reduction should be your primary consideration.
Bob
Bob
11-24-2012, 08:00 PM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: sensei
I don't think anyone has mentioned it but if you are really planning on going electric, weight reduction should be your primary consideration.
Bob
I don't think anyone has mentioned it but if you are really planning on going electric, weight reduction should be your primary consideration.
Bob
11-24-2012, 09:58 PM
#17
Banned
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
I am trying hard in my mind to compare a3 or 5 lbs model to a 28 or 36 to 48 lbs model flying in a wind blowing at 15 to 30 mph and perhaps being gusty.
I just think it cannot be compared.
Please do no tell me to try it; I do not have any models heavier than 11 lbs.
I also do not fly like what I saw in the link.
That type of flying with an engine-prop combination producing thrust may be twice or more the model weight has no appeal to me at all.
I am glad some fellows enjoy this.
Zor
I just think it cannot be compared.
Please do no tell me to try it; I do not have any models heavier than 11 lbs.
I also do not fly like what I saw in the link.
That type of flying with an engine-prop combination producing thrust may be twice or more the model weight has no appeal to me at all.
I am glad some fellows enjoy this.
Zor
11-24-2012, 10:57 PM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
One would think there is a-bit of a dif when comparing 4-6 lbs planes to a 30-40-lb plane... Just like a 10oz plane to a 40oz plane..
3-4lbs added to a 5lb plane is huge.... I think this would make a dif. in it's ablity to fly when lighter planes are grounded do to 15mph winds..
I can't argue either way, because I don't have any personal experience on the subject matter...
I am only speculating...
Here is a good question:
Is weight a consideration, or is it the overall aircraft shape (including wing profile) that makes the dif. in wind penitration and stabilization?
Or a combination between the 2?
Wouldn't one be able to mix micro balloons/ or sim., in with the epoxy to reduce weight gain? rather than heavy bondo filler???
Also, does anyone know what all the ARF manufactures use ontop of there fiberglass cowls, pants ect?
It is a lightweight coat, that is bonded to the fiberglass, and is painted. It is White in color.
This dosn't fill the weave, but rather is a layer that is flat bonded to the fiberglass, and gives it it's strength.
You see this materal everytime you bust up the fiberglass on the ARF's....
The paint will flake off it very easily once the crack or break occurs...????
Any ideas????
3-4lbs added to a 5lb plane is huge.... I think this would make a dif. in it's ablity to fly when lighter planes are grounded do to 15mph winds..
I can't argue either way, because I don't have any personal experience on the subject matter...
I am only speculating...
Here is a good question:
Is weight a consideration, or is it the overall aircraft shape (including wing profile) that makes the dif. in wind penitration and stabilization?
Or a combination between the 2?
Wouldn't one be able to mix micro balloons/ or sim., in with the epoxy to reduce weight gain? rather than heavy bondo filler???
Also, does anyone know what all the ARF manufactures use ontop of there fiberglass cowls, pants ect?
It is a lightweight coat, that is bonded to the fiberglass, and is painted. It is White in color.
This dosn't fill the weave, but rather is a layer that is flat bonded to the fiberglass, and gives it it's strength.
You see this materal everytime you bust up the fiberglass on the ARF's....
The paint will flake off it very easily once the crack or break occurs...????
Any ideas????
11-25-2012, 07:06 AM
#19
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: Zor
I am trying hard in my mind to compare a 3 or 5 lbs model to a 28 or 36 to 48 lbs model flying in a wind blowing at 15 to 30 mph and perhaps being gusty.
I just think it cannot be compared.
Please do no tell me to try it; I do not have any models heavier than 11 lbs.
I also do not fly like what I saw in the link.
That type of flying with an engine-prop combination producing thrust may be twice or more the model weight has no appeal to me at all.
I am glad some fellows enjoy this.
Zor
It all has to do with wing loading/cubed loading and of course those Reynolds numbers and the smaller the platform is, the more critical weight becomes, and one other little fact; lighter flies better in all around conditions.
It is the assumption by many that a heavier airplane has better penetration qualities, well guess what; a lighter airplane will dampen out the effects of wind/gusts faster than a heavy airplane, so what does this mean; two identical airplanes flying side by side in the wind, one heavy, one light, you will not see the lighter version bouncing around more than its porky counterpart, but from your post I am thinking most of what I am stating is falling on deaf ears.
Not that you probably noticed or even care but that 40 % airplane was performing on a 100 cc power plant, the norm is 150cc-170cc, also you did not notice how easily the airplane was back on the wing at very slow speeds. Now just because I was asked to abuse the airplane in flight for that video does not mean it can't be flown precision or in just circles if that is your flying style.
Here is another video of the ultra light 260 in 30 mph+ wind, nothing but fun.
http://www.icanflyrc.com/JRFlyin/JH_...es/Bob260.html
Bob
I am trying hard in my mind to compare a 3 or 5 lbs model to a 28 or 36 to 48 lbs model flying in a wind blowing at 15 to 30 mph and perhaps being gusty.
I just think it cannot be compared.
Please do no tell me to try it; I do not have any models heavier than 11 lbs.
I also do not fly like what I saw in the link.
That type of flying with an engine-prop combination producing thrust may be twice or more the model weight has no appeal to me at all.
I am glad some fellows enjoy this.
Zor
It all has to do with wing loading/cubed loading and of course those Reynolds numbers and the smaller the platform is, the more critical weight becomes, and one other little fact; lighter flies better in all around conditions.
It is the assumption by many that a heavier airplane has better penetration qualities, well guess what; a lighter airplane will dampen out the effects of wind/gusts faster than a heavy airplane, so what does this mean; two identical airplanes flying side by side in the wind, one heavy, one light, you will not see the lighter version bouncing around more than its porky counterpart, but from your post I am thinking most of what I am stating is falling on deaf ears.
Not that you probably noticed or even care but that 40 % airplane was performing on a 100 cc power plant, the norm is 150cc-170cc, also you did not notice how easily the airplane was back on the wing at very slow speeds. Now just because I was asked to abuse the airplane in flight for that video does not mean it can't be flown precision or in just circles if that is your flying style.
Here is another video of the ultra light 260 in 30 mph+ wind, nothing but fun.
http://www.icanflyrc.com/JRFlyin/JH_...es/Bob260.html
Bob
11-25-2012, 07:13 AM
#20
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: kochj
One would think there is a-bit of a dif when comparing 4-6 lbs planes to a 30-40-lb plane... Just like a 10oz plane to a 40oz plane..
3-4lbs added to a 5lb plane is huge.... I think this would make a dif. in it's ablity to fly when lighter planes are grounded do to 15mph winds..
I can't argue either way, because I don't have any personal experience on the subject matter...
I am only speculating...
Here is a good question:
Is weight a consideration, or is it the overall aircraft shape (including wing profile) that makes the dif. in wind penitration and stabilization?
Or a combination between the 2?
Wouldn't one be able to mix micro balloons/ or sim., in with the epoxy to reduce weight gain? rather than heavy bondo filler???
Also, does anyone know what all the ARF manufactures use ontop of there fiberglass cowls, pants ect?
It is a lightweight coat, that is bonded to the fiberglass, and is painted. It is White in color.
This dosn't fill the weave, but rather is a layer that is flat bonded to the fiberglass, and gives it it's strength.
You see this materal everytime you bust up the fiberglass on the ARF's....
The paint will flake off it very easily once the crack or break occurs...????
Any ideas????
One would think there is a-bit of a dif when comparing 4-6 lbs planes to a 30-40-lb plane... Just like a 10oz plane to a 40oz plane..
3-4lbs added to a 5lb plane is huge.... I think this would make a dif. in it's ablity to fly when lighter planes are grounded do to 15mph winds..
I can't argue either way, because I don't have any personal experience on the subject matter...
I am only speculating...
Here is a good question:
Is weight a consideration, or is it the overall aircraft shape (including wing profile) that makes the dif. in wind penitration and stabilization?
Or a combination between the 2?
Wouldn't one be able to mix micro balloons/ or sim., in with the epoxy to reduce weight gain? rather than heavy bondo filler???
Also, does anyone know what all the ARF manufactures use ontop of there fiberglass cowls, pants ect?
It is a lightweight coat, that is bonded to the fiberglass, and is painted. It is White in color.
This dosn't fill the weave, but rather is a layer that is flat bonded to the fiberglass, and gives it it's strength.
You see this materal everytime you bust up the fiberglass on the ARF's....
The paint will flake off it very easily once the crack or break occurs...????
Any ideas????
Bob
11-25-2012, 08:09 AM
#21
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: Zor
I am trying hard in my mind to compare a3 or 5 lbs model to a 28 or 36 to 48 lbs model flying in a wind blowing at 15 to 30 mph and perhaps being gusty.
I just think it cannot be compared.
Please do no tell me to try it; I do not have any models heavier than 11 lbs.
I also do not fly like what I saw in the link.
That type of flying with an engine-prop combination producing thrust may be twice or more the model weight has no appeal to me at all.
I am glad some fellows enjoy this.
Zor
I am trying hard in my mind to compare a3 or 5 lbs model to a 28 or 36 to 48 lbs model flying in a wind blowing at 15 to 30 mph and perhaps being gusty.
I just think it cannot be compared.
Please do no tell me to try it; I do not have any models heavier than 11 lbs.
I also do not fly like what I saw in the link.
That type of flying with an engine-prop combination producing thrust may be twice or more the model weight has no appeal to me at all.
I am glad some fellows enjoy this.
Zor
+1
11-25-2012, 08:16 AM
#22
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: sensei
It all has to do with wing loading/cubed loading and of course those Reynolds numbers and the smaller the platform is, the more critical weight becomes, and one other little fact; lighter flies better in all around conditions.
It is the assumption by many that a heavier airplane has better penetration qualities, well guess what; a lighter airplane will dampen out the effects of wind/gusts faster than a heavy airplane, so what does this mean; two identical airplanes flying side by side in the wind, one heavy, one light, you will not see the lighter version bouncing around more than its porky counterpart, but from your post I am thinking most of what I am stating is falling on deaf ears.
Not that you probably noticed or even care but that 40 % airplane was performing on a 100 cc power plant, the norn is 150cc-170cc, also you did not notice how easily the airplane was back the wing at very slow speeds. Now just because I was asked to abuse the airplane in flight for that video does not mean it can't be flown precision or in just circles if that is your flying style.
Bob
It all has to do with wing loading/cubed loading and of course those Reynolds numbers and the smaller the platform is, the more critical weight becomes, and one other little fact; lighter flies better in all around conditions.
It is the assumption by many that a heavier airplane has better penetration qualities, well guess what; a lighter airplane will dampen out the effects of wind/gusts faster than a heavy airplane, so what does this mean; two identical airplanes flying side by side in the wind, one heavy, one light, you will not see the lighter version bouncing around more than its porky counterpart, but from your post I am thinking most of what I am stating is falling on deaf ears.
Not that you probably noticed or even care but that 40 % airplane was performing on a 100 cc power plant, the norn is 150cc-170cc, also you did not notice how easily the airplane was back the wing at very slow speeds. Now just because I was asked to abuse the airplane in flight for that video does not mean it can't be flown precision or in just circles if that is your flying style.
Bob
11-25-2012, 09:04 AM
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
I have huge respect of Bob.... and would take his word as scripture in this matter....
I am trying to learn as much as possible about planes and I don't think there is a subject matter that
wouldn't be benificial to learn about, when it involves planes.
I have wanted to purchase that hyperlite 50% edge for some time now...
Unfortuniately, I do not have the time to build one right now....
I am trying to learn as much as possible about planes and I don't think there is a subject matter that
wouldn't be benificial to learn about, when it involves planes.
I have wanted to purchase that hyperlite 50% edge for some time now...
Unfortuniately, I do not have the time to build one right now....
11-25-2012, 09:05 AM
#24
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: Resin coating a arf ?
For those that have followed my dribble over the years know I'm not a weight watcher but that just means I don't worry about grams and depending on the planes size ounces. However when it comes to electrics I do start watching the grams. I don't worry about it but I always try to build my electrics as light as I can make them without building them too flimsy. I haven't gotten to use the flight metal so haven't a clue as to the added weight but I have built small planes using chrome and aluminum covering and in this case I think it would be a good way to go.
To glass a plane I fully sheet and glass, that adds quite a bit of extra weight but not as much as most people think. I don't use resin and I use nothing heavier then 3/4 ounce glass. To just cover the wood grain I would give the planes structure several coats of Deft sanding Sealer then sand smooth. Not the water based but the good old chemical based, it gasses off and looses about 80% of it's weight. Sanding smooth removes even more.
Just using one of the good plastic silver coverings would probably be the easiest way to accomplish what the OP is trying to do.
Hope this helps a little but there are several ways to get that aluminum look on a plane. It's also one of the few times I use Mono instead of Ultra. I have had problems with my old stand by Ultra in there silvers and had better luck with mono.
To glass a plane I fully sheet and glass, that adds quite a bit of extra weight but not as much as most people think. I don't use resin and I use nothing heavier then 3/4 ounce glass. To just cover the wood grain I would give the planes structure several coats of Deft sanding Sealer then sand smooth. Not the water based but the good old chemical based, it gasses off and looses about 80% of it's weight. Sanding smooth removes even more.
Just using one of the good plastic silver coverings would probably be the easiest way to accomplish what the OP is trying to do.
Hope this helps a little but there are several ways to get that aluminum look on a plane. It's also one of the few times I use Mono instead of Ultra. I have had problems with my old stand by Ultra in there silvers and had better luck with mono.
11-25-2012, 03:10 PM
#25
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RE: Resin coating a arf ?
ORIGINAL: sensei
I don't think anyone has mentioned it but if you are really planning on going electric, weight reduction should be your primary consideration.
Bob
I don't think anyone has mentioned it but if you are really planning on going electric, weight reduction should be your primary consideration.
Bob