thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

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12-04-2012, 05:46 PM

#26

mdjohnson

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Yep......getting a dog is a major decision all right. As I said earlier, I can't imagine life without one. My dog is the only one who completely understands me!!!

Cheers

MJ

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12-04-2012, 06:11 PM

#27

FuzzyDice

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Small dogs ...........small problems. I don't like any dogs at the airfield really , especially when they bark at the plane's engine
noise . Nerve wracking for most fliers but they don't wanna hurt their buddies feelings ....keep the your dog at home . (i have three) by
the way.

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12-04-2012, 06:39 PM

#28

GerKonig

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Quote:

ORIGINAL: rcguy59

Here's Rufus J. using my P-47 for shade. She's a Pom and belongs to a guy in the club. A day at the field without her around just isn't the same. She's kind of a club mascot on the weekends.

That is very funny, and a smart dog.

I have somewhere a picture taken at WOD I think. somebody obviously had left and dumped all the cold water and ice on the grass. On top of it, a dog was resting, and I swear he was smiling (it was very hot). Those were the days of the 35mm film Nikons, so I have no clue where the picture might be now. Will find it 2 years after retirement (maybe). Dogs are very smart creatures...

Gerry

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12-04-2012, 07:02 PM

#29

cmoulder

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Quote:

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Thanks for so many awesome replies! I have been thinking about an Australian Shepherd - I've always wanted one. They are incredibly smart, and have a lot of energy. The plan would be to bring the dog with me to the flying field every time, and maybe play fetch between flights. They have those 'tennis ball thrower' things that let you launch a ball pretty far so the dog can run a lot. Aussies are typically easy to train and are not agressive if trained.

Obviously getting a dog is a huge decision and commitment, so I'm going to take my time on this one. But I temporarily moved into a place with an Aussie (and a blood hound) and absolutely love this guy. I am excited to see him in the mornings and evenings, and I've only known him for 2 days now.

So they are 'medium' size dogs, 50-70lb and 20-23in at the shoulder, supposedly. Not the smallest dog in the world, but not huge. The trailer idea sounds great since I drive a small truck, and really liked the trailer I saw at Site 4 at the Nats this past year, with the AC and stuff.

I am going to try to meet some other Aussies and talk to their owners to see if it is a good fit - not sure how 'demanding' the dog would be and how much it would impact flying/building/other hobbies, although I have really been in need of a good walking partner.

Joe, whatever breed you settle upon, I would encourage you to get a dog from a rescue shelter and not a breeder. There are so many good dogs in need of a home and mixed-breed dogs have a lot to offer.

I was going to wait until after I retire (at the end of this month!) to get a dog but we found just what we were looking for online at petfinder and, wouldn't you know it?, the shelter where he was housed was a few minutes from where we live. I wanted an Aussie mix and the photo was clearly an Aussie mix with some terrier of some sort, Jack Russell or wire-hair... whatever! And whatever he is we've grown to love this handsome rascal. I have taken him to the local fields a couple of times and the noise and hubbub don't bother him, though I am nowhere close to letting him off-leash anywhere, and especially not a flying field. Doing some training myself and also some training soon (Sunday) with the local dog park folks.

A dog does take up a lot of time, at least it has for me in these early stages, and some fields do not allow them. I had to crate Cyrus today for about 4 hours while I was out flying and although I took him for a good romp at the dog park this morning and fed, watered and let him do his business, I still felt a little bad about it. but he was so happy to see me when I got home!

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12-04-2012, 07:11 PM

#30

MTK

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Quote:

ORIGINAL: cmoulder
Joe, whatever breed you settle upon, I would encourage you to get a dog from a rescue shelter and not a breeder. There are so many good dogs in need of a home and mixed-breed dogs have a lot to offer.
A dog does take up a lot of time, at least it has for me in these early stages, and some fields do not allow them. I had to crate Cyrus today for about 4 hours while I was out flying and although I took him for a good romp at the dog park this morning and fed, watered and let him do his business, I still felt a little bad about it. but he was so happy to see me when I got home!

Bob, I edited it a bit...

A dog can be a creature that you get attached to quickly. Such was the case with my Sapphire, blue eyed full breed Siberian Husky with impeccable manners and love. The trouble with such a pet is that they die way too soon....Never again!!

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12-04-2012, 08:29 PM

#31

Rudy

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

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12-04-2012, 08:33 PM

#32

Rudy

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Australian Shepherd are great dogs with nice temperaments. Ireally like them. My girlfriend has two of them. I have an 11 year old PortugueseWater Dog. Aussie do have some energy but they can manage it with your help.Like kids they need to go to school especially if you’re not a dog person.Socialize – socialize to everything. Walks where there is noise, people, differentsurfaces, plenty of distractions on leash and lots of people to say hi to yourpuppy. Take you’re Puppy to a puppy kindergarten and at least one class of obedienceclass. The kind that rewards good behavior not punish bad. It’s more for youthan the dog. Teaches you how to communicate with your little buddy. Take it tothe field right away. Confine it so it can see you and what is going on. Shadeand water. Encourage everyone to visit the pup. Don’t teach your puppy to get excitedwhen you come home at the end of the day. Say hi; go about your business for a minuteor so them give it some attention. Same when people come over. Good dog. Lotsof praise!

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12-04-2012, 08:33 PM

#33

Rendegade

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

I wish I could take my fluffy child to competitions, unfortunately for me though, our national governing body takes a dim view of dogs at fields, and no doubt some pinhead would send me packing if I tried.

...also he loves chasing models, I slow fly with him at the local park and he barks his head off. I don't think I could concentrate with him barking through the schedule.

Might be a good way of telling whether I'm 175m out or not though.

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12-04-2012, 10:09 PM

#34

Paul_BB

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

My dog is a mix of a Fox Terrier and some other undefinable breeds. We found him when he wasapproximately 8 monthes old. He had ran away from a careless owner (no RFID chip etc.)
When we found him(actually it is he who found us), the police and the vet told us to put him down because "Fox Terriers are neurotic".No way.
We are very happy with our dog, but the police and the vet were right.The few timeshe came with meto field he barked endlessly,digged huge holes in the ground.

This dog is like a little baby, he demands a lot of attention.

-Paul

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12-05-2012, 04:44 AM

#35

f3a05

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

I have the best of at least two worlds with my hounds.
I go to my flying field mainly in the warmer months, to fly my planes.
I don't take the dogs.
In the colder months, we have permission to work the land surrounding the flying patch, with the hounds, and we take home dinner.
I don't need the planes.

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12-05-2012, 05:27 AM

#36

bjr_93tz

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

I have no dog in this fight (groan!!!) but have been to comps where a dog has been present.

My rule of thumb is that if the dog isn't making me nervous, and by nervous I mean jumping around mine or sombody else's plane off it's leash, then I adopt the "it's a free country" attitude and I couldn't care less about them having a dog there.

However (and this hasn't happened), if the dog is making me nervous and the owner adopts the "It's a free country and I couldn't care less about your plane" attitude then I'd be inclined apply the local field rules.

Pattern is a fairly small social circle where I'm from, so tolerance and consideration for others is top priority.

At least I've never had somebody park their dog up to my airplane to urinate on it's wheel like I saw one dog owner do to some poor blokes car on the footpath yesterday, or watch their dog take a dump in somebody else's front yard during the morning walk.

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12-05-2012, 06:18 AM

#37

mups53

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

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ORIGINAL: cmoulder

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12-07-2012, 01:34 PM

#38

jbudd

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Here's my $0.02 as a longtime pattern competitor and dog owner...

I'd respectfully suggest that you consider keeping your dog on a leash when you have your pet with you at contests and at the flying field. Mostly for the safety of your pet and also for everyones peace of mind. When we as modelers make a mistake around rotating propellers, we tend to get our fingers and hands in the way, for animals it's their faces and tails that are generally at risk. As a past pet owner I wouldn't want to expose my beloved pets to that risk when there's simply NO justifiable reason to do so. As a club member I wouldn't want my club to be unnecessarily exposed to the potential liability to the club caused by allowing an animal to wander around uncontrolled off leash. And as a pilot I don't want to be exposed to the liability caused by an animal running around, or into my airplane, whether the propellor is turning or not. Nothing good can come from it. That's why most clubs have rules requiring pets at the flying field be kept on leashes, both to protect the pets from harm and also to limit the liability of all parties in the unfortunate event of a mishap. You have to ask yourself: Is it worth the medical/emotional/legal risk just so that your pet can run around unattended?

A few years ago Geoff Combs told me the story of how his new prototype SL-1 was damaged just before the Nats while he was practicing with it at a flying field near his home in Columbus, OH. He was the only one at the field and was in the air when a neighbors dog (a golden retriever) quietly walked up and laid down near his feet. Goeff said that he didn't anticipate any problem as the dog seemed very calm and reserved so he continued his flight. However, when he landed and the plane rolled past him the dog suddenly took off after it and "caught" the plane, jumping on top of it and breaking the fuselage in half in the process. Granted, there was almost nothing Geoff could have done to prevent the mishap, it wasn't the dog's fault as it was just "doing what dogs do", and the dog's owner was nowhere to be found. The point is that animals can be unpredictable at times, especially around loud noises, and shiny, moving objects (squirrel?!). This scenario would have been entirely preventable in a contest setting where the dog would likely have been brought to the event by it's owner.

There's also the social issue of having your pet roaming around by itself at a modeling event. There's no way that you can keep track of your pet while you're flying or judging, do you think that everyone wants to do that for you when you're busy? Have you asked them? Some have no issue with doing so, and others will likely not say anything but not be all that happy about it. Then there's also the issue of your pets behavior when it's not under your direct control (e.g. on a leash). At a contest in D7 earlier this year a pilots dog was running around peeing on some of the competitor's planes (I didn't see it but was told about it after the fact by another pilot's friend who had witnessed it). It was an awkward situation where no-one wanted to tell the dogs owner what had happened (I won't go into why that was here but I don't believe they were ever told about it). It was entirely preventable, and could have easily erupted into an uncomfortable confrontation with the dog's owner. If your pet's off leash there's no way you can prevent it from doing the same, and I can assure you that the pilots who had their planes pee'd on won't be forgetting it anytime soon. Would you want to be that pet's owner?

In polite society it's considered a courtesy for pet owners to have their pets on leashes when out in public, and in some areas it's a legal requirement, both to protect the pet and the public. Seems like that courtesy should be extend to locations where there's an obvious safety risk to the pet, the planes, and the public. Just common sense (which isn't so common these days).

Now if you bring your pet to the field/contest on a leash (and it doesn't bark excessively), I'll be one of the first people to come over and pet it (right behind my girlfriend!), assuming it's ok to do so?

Have a nice weekend everybody!

Thx, Jerry

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12-07-2012, 02:21 PM

#39

Jetdesign

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Good comments. For the record, I am hyper sensitive to bothering people around me. The last thing I want is a barking or nosy, roamingi dog around expensive airplanes and people concentrating. If the dog won't stay quiet I won't bring it. And it would be constrained unless I was off playing with it away from the pits/field. I respect our hobby and want no part of being a disturbance. My question is more aimed at the feasibility and comfort of the dog and myself.

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12-07-2012, 03:49 PM

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cmoulder

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Well stated, Jerry!

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12-07-2012, 05:52 PM

#41

TonyF

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

There are dogs and then there are dogs. They are as much individuals as people. Having rules that make the owner's responsible for their dog's behavior seems more applicable. It is how my club, and by the way the same club Jerry Budd belongs to, handles the pet situation.

I also have to say, not saying anything to a dog's owner about something the dog "might" have done, then posting it here in this forum long after the fact seems very spiteful. Spreading a rumor about some such event in an internet forum before anyone even tries to say anything directly to the dog's owner seems very small. You would think that a more reasonable action would be to bring up your concerns directly to the owner before posting it to the internet. Especially when it was something you did not witness, but was told to you by a "friend of a friend". Second and third hand info can often be very unreliable. Seems like strange behavior.

Any responsible pet owner will not want their pet to be in danger. When the conditions warrant it, my dog is leashed. But it is not necessary at all times. As this thread has seen, there are dogs and then there are dogs. But then again, there are also all sorts of human beings. There are some in my club that when they are flying I casually put my airplane somewhere safe! But I don't make an issue out of it. And when I fly my pattern model with someone else in the air I know it is always at risk. As Jerry experienced a few months ago, mid-airs happen. I would be willing to bet they take out far more pattern models then dogs. Do we want to start to legislate against mid-airs? Can you imagine that response?

As to what most clubs do for rules, I have seen just the opposite. Even the AMA at it's headquarters has no such rule regarding leashes. And the AMA makes no official recommendation regarding pets. They leave it up entirely to the individual club. In fact, when I talked to the AMA about it they told me a story of a dog that was at every Sailplane Nats for many years. He would roam around the contest, a friend to everyone there. When he passed they buried him at that site.

I think making rules based on examples of irresponsible owners or on rumors would be poorly based.

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12-07-2012, 06:55 PM

#42

jbudd

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

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ORIGINAL: TonyF

There are dogs and then there are dogs. They are as much individuals as people. Having rules that make the owner's responsible for their dog's behavior seems more applicable. It is how my club, and by the way the same club Jerry Budd belongs to, handles the pet situation.

Would that would be the club that used to have a leash rule until you got a dog and became Club President, then rewrote the club rules to remove the leash requirement?

Quote:

I also have to say, not saying anything to a dog's owner about something the dog ''might'' have done, then posting it here in this forum long after the fact seems very spiteful. Spreading a rumor about some such event in an internet forum before anyone even tries to say anything directly to the dog's owner seems very small. You would think that a more reasonable action would be to bring up your concerns directly to the owner before posting it to the internet. Especially when it was something you did not witness, but was told to you by a ''friend of a friend''. Second and third hand info can often be very unreliable. Seems like strange behavior.

Nothing spiteful or strange about it, I wasn't addressing you with my post. In fact I never mentioned anyones name. I was just offering advice to Joe based on my experiences and observations (which he btw asked for). If it struck a nerve with you, don't blame me (but you might consider taking a look in the mirror before replying).

Here's the facts of the situation: As I posted, "I" didn't observe the dog peeing on the planes, but I "was" told directly by someone who witnessed it firsthand themselves. Not from a "friend of a friend", it was from the girlfriend of a new pilot flying in the contest. And from what I was told she wasn't the only one who saw it. Nor was she happy about it. Also, I didn't say who's dog it was, but obviously you think it was your's, why is that? I could go into a lot of background as to why the owner of the dog wasn't approached about what their dog had done, but to what end? It had nothing to do with the point I was making about why a pet should be on a leash at the flying field.

Quote:

Any responsible pet owner will not want their pet to be in danger. When the conditions warrant it, my dog is leashed. But it is not necessary at all times. As this thread has seen, there are dogs and then there are dogs. But then again, there are also all sorts of human beings. There are some in my club that when they are flying I casually put my airplane somewhere safe! But I don't make an issue out of it. And when I fly my pattern model with someone else in the air I know it is always at risk. As Jerry experienced a few months ago, mid-airs happen. I would be willing to bet they take out far more pattern models then dogs. Do we want to start to legislate against mid-airs? Can you imagine that response?

That's a poor analogy, mid-airs cannot be easily prevented. Preventing a pet from wandering onto the runway, or from being at risk due to running around loose can be. It's as simple as that.

Quote:

As to what most clubs do for rules, I have seen just the opposite. Even the AMA at it's headquarters has no such rule regarding leashes. And the AMA makes no official recommendation regarding pets. They leave it up entirely to the individual club. In fact, when I talked to the AMA about it they told me a story of a dog that was at every Sailplane Nats for many years. He would roam around the contest, a friend to everyone there. When he passed they buried him at that site.

I agree with leaving it up to the individual club. And I would hope that the club's members would realize that having a pet leash rule (and enforcing it) just makes sense. As far as your anecdotal (rumored?) story about the sailplane Nats, not many rotating propellers there, hence a greatly reduced risk level. Maybe it's not much of a problem at the Sailplane Nats. On the other hand if that dog was peeing on other competitors planes, as I was told this one was, then I suspect not everyone would have been so happy about it being allowed to run around loose (assuming it was).

Quote:

I think making rules based on examples of irresponsible owners or on rumors would be poorly based.

Agreed, however having a common sense rule that proactively prevents a problem from occurring, especially when it's as simple as keeping a pet on a leash, is just good policy. Not to mention being courteous towards others who would rather not deal with the pet being around them and their planes. I don't think that's too much to ask.

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12-07-2012, 07:44 PM

#43

TonyF

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Jerry, your facts need a little straightening out, as you have them all wrong.

I was elected President of the Tailwinds in 2005. The Tailwinds Field Regulations were updated in 2006. At that time the leash rule was removed. Those regulations were drafted by the BOD, which you were a member of at that time, and were approved by the membership. I have all the old documentation if you would like to see it. I got Barkley in 2009. So are you saying I had the foresight to know that I was going to get a dog 3 years in advance and change the rules to accommodate that? Pretty good planning on my part if it was true. But pretty sad to see that you twist it around, get the facts wrong and use it to attack me.

I never said you were talking about my dog. I'm pretty sure you weren't, but I have to think that you might have been. It was after all, third hand info. But I do think it was poor form to use something that was never told to the owner, never given a chance to be corrected, never witnessed by yourself, and use it as an example in an internet posting as poor pet and owner behavior. I guess I touched a nerve with you in that.

I see mid-airs at the practice field being easily prevented. Just don't fly when there are others flying. But it is certainly inconvenient. Just as it is to restrain a dog that has a proven good behavior record. I'm just glad that the other member that had the mid-air with you that day was not that upset about the loss of his model considering that you were delinquent with your dues that day and no longer had field privileges.

As to being courteous to others at the field, I think that is certainly fine, up to a point. I am very sensitive to smoke. Someone can light up 20 feet away from me and it bothers me. But I don't make it a point to tell them to put it out. I just try to move someplace where it doesn't bother me. I think there's being courteous, but at the same time, there should be an expected amount of tolerance from the membership. If we insisted on eliminating everything that bothered anyone at any time, it would be a very quiet field!

This brings us to a problem that I have witnessed several times in clubs, and not always just about pets. When somebody has a personal clash with another member, instead of trying to work it out directly with that member they attack them through club rules, or proposing club rules, or in some other manner involved with the club. I see this happening right here. It always seems so petty to me, but it is what it is.

I guess I'll just keep remembering what you told me back in 2009, that I had the best dog you have ever seen. And I'll try to forget everything else after that.

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12-07-2012, 09:11 PM

#44

jgg215

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Bella told me that we should all stop talking and do more flying, or throw the ball, or give her treats.

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12-07-2012, 09:20 PM

#45

TonyF

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

I agree with Bella!

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12-07-2012, 09:58 PM

#46

MTK

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

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ORIGINAL: jbudd

Here's my $0.02 as a longtime pattern competitor and dog owner...

A few years ago Geoff Combs told me the story of how his new prototype SL-1 was damaged just before the Nats while he was practicing with it at a flying field near his home in Columbus, OH. He was the only one at the field and was in the air when a neighbors dog (a golden retriever) quietly walked up and laid down near his feet. Goeff said that he didn't anticipate any problem as the dog seemed very calm and reserved so he continued his flight. However, when he landed and the plane rolled past him the dog suddenly took off after it and "caught" the plane, jumping on top of it and breaking the fuselage in half in the process. Granted, there was almost nothing Geoff could have done to prevent the mishap, it wasn't the dog's fault as it was just "doing what dogs do", and the dog's owner was nowhere to be found. The point is that animals can be unpredictable at times, especially around loud noises, and shiny, moving objects (squirrel?!). This scenario would have been entirely preventable in a contest setting where the dog would likely have been brought to the event by it's owner.

Have a nice weekend everybody!

Thx, Jerry

Jerry's story reminds of a similar top dawg story that happened in my neighbor's front yard years ago, when I lived in Texas.

See, one of the local zoo's gorillas had jumped the fence and found his way to my neighbors roof making a racket. My neighbor called me over to try to figure out what to do so I suggested that he call the zookeeper. "Dang" the guy said, "it's the third time this month; I'll be right over....." Sure enough he shows up with his gorilla cage in the truck and pretty assistant in the cab,andaGerman police dog.... absolutely gorgeous animal, that dawg. We admired the guy for riding in style. Then he pulls some more stuff from his truck such as a double barrel shot gun, a ladder, long pole, net, and handcuffs.

We sez....what's all this shtuff for?? He starts " Well, my assistent puts the ladder on the other side of the house and lifts it to the roof and me, with the long pole in hand, I climb to the roof. Ijiggle the gorilla till he falls to the ground. The dog runsover andbites him in the nuts and paralyzes him, justlong enough for my assistant to throw the net on him and handcuff him"

Hmmmmmm! sez us....Heeyyy, what's the shot gun for? The guy sez " Well, sometimes the gorilla knocksME off the roof....That's to shoot the dog......

Jerry, you too bud,have anice weekend.

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12-07-2012, 10:18 PM

#47

jbudd

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

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ORIGINAL: TonyF

Jerry, your facts need a little straightening out, as you have them all wrong.

Obviously I must be as in your world, you never are...

In my best Bobby Satalino imitation, "Have A Nice DAY!!!"

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12-07-2012, 10:37 PM

#48

TonyF

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Reminded of a movie,

Bill: I know we haven't spoken in some time. And the last time we spoke wasn't the most pleasant but you've to got to get over being mad at me and start becoming afraid of
[beep] because she is coming and she is coming to kill you. And unless you accept my assistance I have no doubt she will succeed.
Budd: I don't dodge guilt and I don't bleep out of paying my comeuppance.
Bill: Can't we just... forget the past?
Budd: That woman, deserves her revenge and... we deserve to die. But then again, so does she. So, I guess we'll just see. Won't we?

Or in a lighter vein, a different movie,

Pee-wee: I know you are, but what am I?

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12-08-2012, 01:18 AM

#49

Passport1

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

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12-08-2012, 01:21 AM

#50

Passport1

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RE: thinking about a dog - impact on contests?

Quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyF

I never said you were talking about my dog. I'm pretty sure you weren't, but I have to think that you might have been. It was after all, third hand info. But I do think it was poor form to use something that was never told to the owner, never given a chance to be corrected, never witnessed by yourself, and use it as an example in an internet posting as poor pet and owner behavior. I guess I touched a nerve with you in that.

Jerry, stop you can't win

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