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What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

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What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

Old 12-05-2012, 09:28 PM
  #26  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.



Like they say in Russia, It's Tufsky Shietsky. Both arguably have responsibility on this air collision. This is a hobby and these planes all will sooner or later crash, yours unfortunately happened earlier than you wanted. Unless you can settle this man to man, you can just accept your loss or you may file a small claims complaint. Your word and witnesses against his. You will have to show some sort of proof of your damages thru an damage estimate, or receipt or a actual list of replacement parts prices. There is this rule of equitable damages where you may have to bear a portion of the fault, then decision will reflect your percentage of the equitable damages.



I think you will probably have to eat this one, I have many a time in rc car collisions.

Old 12-05-2012, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

If someone was deliberatly flying around my favorite plane while I was in the air I would tell him to stop. If a crash resulted because of it after I told him to stop. I would wait till he lands or brings his favorite plane and stomp it to pieces then tell him sorry just like he probably said to me. That's just me.
Old 12-06-2012, 03:23 AM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

An instructor did this? What a great example for a student. Guiding principle, if you cannot afford to loose it, don't put it into the air. It is no-fault air up there. Yeah, woulda, coulda, shoulda all are worth nothing. Lawsuit??? give me a break, are you really going to spend time chasing an accident. You will not make friends that way. If you want to fly a new high dollar plane by yourself, you should make it well known before you launch. You could have yelled at the guy to stop. It is very easy to loose someone chasing you. There are a lot of steps you could have taken to avoid the collision. I don't put myself in this position, there are only a few guys that I will dog fight with... and we all understand, we lick our own wounds if we play.

The guy should have his instructor capabilities stripped if that is his judgement ability.
Old 12-06-2012, 03:44 AM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

Chock it up to experience and move on...

Bob
Old 12-06-2012, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

In the USA there might be a lawsuit if you stomped a guys plane in retaliation . Or a broken nose . But I have to admit if the guy woulda
stomped the dawg out of that trainer , It would be poetic justice IF the guy did it on purpose........but it was an accident . Over here in some clubs
the guy would probably be made to pay up . Have you ever been in a free for all combat ? You couldn't hit a plane if you tried . But if you do stomp the guys plane send us a youtube link
Old 12-06-2012, 08:29 AM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.


ORIGINAL: Quigleywins

Its a longt story so I will try to get the main points in with out any slant to my side of the dispute.
Back in May I arrived at our local flying field with a new Great planes Tomcat (Built Kit) Powered with a OS 55AX. The aircraft had been folwn 5 weeks eariler by an experienced flier. After this I was sent home to get the CofG forward which I did along with the instillation on a set of new E flite retracts. At this time it was the love of my life.
On the first flite the aircraft did around 3 laps again with the experienced flyer at the controls it was trimed and then handed over to Myself.
I did a turn as we were at the end of the runway and went around to the left as I was heading up the field on the other side the only other aircraft in the air cut across towards the tomcat I moved away this takes you out of our field across the road to the next paddock The trainer follwed I move away to the right again ,the trainer followed again. I moved again to the right,now we were flying directly away from the take off point at a distance of about 400 meters. The aircrafts were now as one as my Tomcat was in front. in the next second my Tomcat was on its way to earth with the wing removed. My time at the controls 20 to 25 Seconds.
The damage and cost ! reciever 9 optmer ! OS 55 ax carburettor body and the out of production tomcat
The offer for the damage take it or leve it was his old 6 to 8 year old Great planes Mustang . My reply to this offer was I want the Great planes Tomcat.
There has been no other offer for the damage to equipment or aircraft ,I also feel that he thinks he has no nore responsibility
Below is my reply in post 10 to some of the replys
The replacement reciver $90 which I have
The OS 55 AX carburettor body $55
I have aquired a wing kit which will fix that area ,cost $40 covering 2 rolls on MK $50
I have had a Ebay Tomcat arrive with a cost of $320 (this included $100 postage) this was a little on the high side but you need to find some one that will post over seas.
O and one other point that the other piolt thought some one else was still flying my Tomcat and the trainer he had ,was not his he had a lesson going and there was a student on the buddy box, what a lesson for the student.
My intention is to have replys from all over the world to how you think about this treatment so I can forward the link to him to see if that gets his hand into his pocket
Yours Paul T

Many thanks to the people that replyed.
As to out running the trainer. The trainer was a very light trainer {VMAR stinger) with a OS 46 AX which the instructor had taken control of away from the student,he was in total control from the point of the agressive action. The great plain Tomcat is not a light aircraft with very long Fuselage and not the lightest aircraft around the trainer was the faster of the two. I did try to our run the trainer after the first turn the trainer was a clear winer in the speed race on the day.
The offending piolt also said straight after the crash (I was collecting the remains) that he thought it was an ARF and the problem would be easly solved with a new one. It was only after the cost factor was realised that a cheaper method of repayment was tryed.
There in no dought about who was at fault on the day, from anybody but when you figer into the event that now this is going to cost heaps attitude change after a few days.
The student also had to do his repairs ,not major as his aircraft made it back to the field but there was reasonable damage. The offending piolt had no cost so far for his actions.

Sorry for your loss... My advice won't help much but this is exactly whyI stay away from clubs.

I fly alone or with one friend that i trust completely and we rarely have two aircraft in the air at the same time..

If a plane crashes with me at the controls it is my fault entirely..

I have tried many clubs over the years but spending hours watching others fly while I wait for my turn is not the hobby for me..

I fly at remote fields, only with no body else around.. If I crash, only the plane and my ego are damaged..

Not the best advice I know, but it works for me and I can fly 30 flights in 3 hours this way..


Old 12-06-2012, 09:01 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

Flying alone is frowned upon in the area in which I live, but I do it often. I do fly in clubs with many people flying, sometimes around five at once, but I usually do not fly any extremely expensive aircraft and that eliminates the chance of an inexperienced pilot busting me out of the sky.

My preference is to actually fly alone which I do quite often and I have found that as far as safety, I am much more cautious and careful when I am alone. I prefer to have someone along just in case something unusual might happen. I, like you can fly many flights in an hour.

I went over to the field yesterday and flew five flights back to back and then packed up and went home as it was getting late. I flew a few days ago for about 70 minutes until I got tired. Flying alone is really fun! I just think a lot of guys around here are not into the flying as much as I am because you never see them coming out unless they can get a bunch of buds to go.
Old 12-06-2012, 09:59 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

Even with only one side being presented it seems obvious that the instructor was chasing the OP.  (He thought someone else was lfying the plane.  He thought it was an ARF.)  If that was witnessed by other members of the club the instructor should be thrown out of the club and banned from the field.  No one should tolerate a reckless, smart adz.  Good luck on getting any money from him.
Old 12-06-2012, 12:51 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.



All this and more is why; 1. I don't fly with students in the air, and I don't train studentswith anyone else in the air. 2. Idon't fly, when people I knowarea hazzardare flying. A student could be just following you because thats what they think they should do. Sorry for your loss, we all have it happen sooner or later.

Old 12-06-2012, 12:52 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.


ORIGINAL: Quigleywins


On the first flite the aircraft did around 3 laps again with the experienced flyer at the controls it was trimed and then handed over to Myself.


Ok so it sounds like someone else took your plane off and handed you the controls during the fateful flight. I assume he was standing next to you when this crash happened.


Did the instructor of the trainer know the guy that handed the controls over to you. What was the guy standing next to you saying about the instructor or to the instructor while all of this chasing and dodging was going on?
Old 12-06-2012, 02:03 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

As unfair as it may seem, midairs are just part of the hobby. Everone shares in the blame and you just swallow hard and move on. I doubt anyone would intentionally try to midair an airplane. After all they have just as much to loose as you do. This person probably feels just as bad about it as you. Midairs always seem to leave someone with egg on their faces .Take it from a guy who has been involved in 4 midairs, some my fault others not. I'm still friends with everyone involved. If you're looking to blame someone, blame just bad luck!!
Old 12-06-2012, 02:09 PM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

You mean one of these? Yikes, that's one ugly bird, sounds like he did you a favor. Next time just get an EDF will ya! Just kidding. In all seriousness, model aircraft midairs are rarely something you can legally contest. Maybe you can convince the offending party that they owe you the money, and out of sheer guilt they might comply, but are under no means obligated to pay you anything. This is just one of those inherent risks associated with the hobby unfortunately. Unless the guy flat out admits he meant to hit your plane, and probably not even then, you'll just need to chalk it up to the cost of partaking in this pastime.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:10 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

Matt thanks for your reply.Yes he was standing next to me. the club is real small with only 9 or 10 flyers. The time that the chase was on would have been 10 seconds maybe 15 no more there was Increase speed (not the answer) right turn 2 sec later right turn 2 seconds later right turn end of aircraft. no time to communitate with the other team. if the aircraft was in the turn for half a second the event took 8 seconds and I'm on the way to the groundwith the wing missing.
I have never engauged in combat type of flying nor have any of the many aircraft I own. It was well known at the field that this was a new aircraft and was on a test flight to trim and get use to how it flew
Old 12-06-2012, 02:24 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

You mean one of these? Yikes, that's one ugly bird, sounds like he did you a favor. Next time just get an EDF will ya! Just kidding. In all seriousness, model aircraft midairs are rarely something you can legally contest. Maybe you can convince the offending party that they owe you the money, and out of sheer guilt they might comply, but are under no means obligated to pay you anything. This is just one of those inherent risks associated with the hobby unfortunately. Unless the guy flat out admits he meant to hit your plane, and probably not even then, you'll just need to chalk it up to the cost of partaking in this pastime.

So this week I can go out to the field and just try to put as many aircraft out of the sky as I can with one tank of fuel. This sounds great ,where do you fly so I can come with 3 ARF and fly like this bloke did but I'll only chase scratch built aircraft and kit built ones. that way it will only cost me very little and the cost will be high for the victims if I come off second best, O yes I could use your aircraft as the offending flyer was not the owner of the aircraft he was in charge of at the time. sounds great.

PS How many hours was there in that one its looks great.
Old 12-06-2012, 02:29 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

If, as it sounds that the OP was being deliberately chased down by the other pilot, then there is no argument. The guy chasing is 100% at fault. Just because the OP is a student flyer, doesn't make any difference at all.
I agree that mid airs do happen as I've seen a number of them, but i have been fortunate enough not to have been involved in any myself, (unless you count the 3 meter wingspan Wedge Tail eagle that took out my brand new pattern ship on it's third flight).
If it was a deliberate action to collide with the OP then the other pilot is responsible for any damage. If that means having to buy an expensive out of production kit, then that is what he has to do.
If i were on the receiving end of a deliberate attack i would be pursuing the matter, though not through the courts as that would be an expensive waste of time. If he doesn't come to the party, then there is more than one way to skin a cat. And i guarantee that he wouldn't be willing to come to the field while i am there again.
You can't say to chalk it it up to experience if it is deliberate. But on the other hand there is always two sides to a story, so any advice given is only arrived at from one perspective.
Old 12-06-2012, 02:45 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

Quigleywins,

How about getting the other guy to read this thread and give us his side of the story.
Then we can all play Judge Judy.
Old 12-06-2012, 03:33 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

   Since you guys live in the Southern Hemisphere........this is an upside down story ,please do give more facts . This is better than
that beer you guys sell .
Old 12-06-2012, 05:34 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.


ORIGINAL: Quigleywins

Matt thanks for your reply.Yes he was standing next to me. the club is real small with only 9 or 10 flyers. The time that the chase was on would have been 10 seconds maybe 15 no more there was Increase speed (not the answer) right turn 2 sec later right turn 2 seconds later right turn end of aircraft. no time to communitate with the other team. if the aircraft was in the turn for half a second the event took 8 seconds and I'm on the way to the groundwith the wing missing.
I have never engauged in combat type of flying nor have any of the many aircraft I own. It was well known at the field that this was a new aircraft and was on a test flight to trim and get use to how it flew
This sounds like it all happened very fast.. Not really an extended chase by the other pilot? I have had many "Close" midairs that were completely unintentional. I think its only fair to seek compensation if the other pilot was "deliberately" trying to annoy you, harrass you, chase you or collide with you...

Its not likely he was doing any of these, and even harder to prove if you took it to court..

Again sorry for your loss.. its an unfortunate aspect of this hobby.
Old 12-06-2012, 05:36 PM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.


ORIGINAL: FuzzyDice

Since you guys live in the Southern Hemisphere........this is an upside down story ,please do give more facts . This is better than
that beer you guys sell .
Man you should see the way our toilets swirl!. A typical day in Australia.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrZ5oNOS0DU
Old 12-06-2012, 06:41 PM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

That chicken story is the best post I have ever seen.
Old 12-06-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

I have the Great Planes F-14 tomcat also, I fly it regularly. If you build another Tomcat put a bigger engine in that plane. Like you said it is a heavy bird. You need at least a 75 size motor in it. Trust me you will be glad you did. Stinger probably wouldn't have caught ya. Im sure with the 55ax it is way underpowered. I can't believe you get it off the ground with that motor.
Old 12-06-2012, 08:20 PM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

Everywhere I have flown when you are in the air it is a fly at your own risk. There is no reason someone would intentionally fly into you unless it was combat. No one wants to lose their plane. You should get over it because if you stick with the hobby this will not be the last plane you have that crashes. I know it sucks but that is the way it is.
Old 12-06-2012, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

ORIGINAL: rchad

I have the Great Planes F-14 tomcat also, I fly it regularly. If you build another Tomcat put a bigger engine in that plane. Like you said it is a heavy bird. You need at least a 75 size motor in it. Trust me you will be glad you did. Stinger probably wouldn't have caught ya. Im sure with the 55ax it is way underpowered. I can't believe you get it off the ground with that motor.
A flyer that knows whats what You are correct the rebuild now has a OS 95 AX in the front. the aircraft is just sitting in the shop with a new front. With the way it was built it is very easy to build a new front into it. I have lacked a little drive to get the rebuild finished but next year it should be on top of the pile of rebuilds. I did just cut the sides at different lengths and added a doubler to finish the inside of the front. It was damaged back that far that the jet intaks will need to be replaced as well. Yours Paul thanks for the advice.
Old 12-06-2012, 10:20 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.


ORIGINAL: Giant_Scale_Gasser

You made a decision to fly an aircraft you are uncomfortable with as other aircraft were in the pattern. The only blame that can be laid on anyone is the minute you make a decision to fly with another aircraft up, you are at least 50% at fault, if anything happens. This is especially true when you are flying an unfamiliar airplane and you will be far too focused on flying the airplane to be aware of what's around you.

When I put my more expensive airplanes up, I pick and chose who I will fly with. But there is always the chance I (or he) will zig when one of us zags. But that is the nature of the beast.

Flying R/C is alot like gambling. Only bet what you're willing to lose...
I'm a gambling man myself, and now here's ascenario for you considering you comprehend what the original poster stated.

I'm flying one of my planes (be it an old comfortable one or brand new) You're also up at the same time. We get close and I make three turns trying to avoid you and you aslo MAKE THREE TURNSin the same direction resulting in your plane chewing into mine. The odds of said bet are definitely NOT in your favor, and I'll just leave it at that.

Comfortable flying a plane or not, be it one you've flown once or a thousand times makes no difference as the OP stated more than once in this thread he SAW the other plane and took evasive action to avoid it.


Old 12-07-2012, 04:24 AM
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Default RE: What should happen in a case like this And how do you go about forcing the Issue.

I say, it is what it is... a part of the hobby.  This is only one side of the story, or should I say both sides from the view of one. 

Enjoy the hobby, do not let this get you down.  You cant and should not keep beating this into the ground.  

As mom always said, get mad, get over it, move on... life is too short not to be happy. 

I am quite sure the other person, is just as equally upset, and even though did not fork over cash as requested, did offer to make it right.  I see no reason to chase someone away over such a silly thing, unless this person was known to do this repeatedly.  We cannot judge by one incident, IMO.

Happy Landings!



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