The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
My 4-40 would do a beautiful flat spin and my Stinger 120 will do a great one too. I start them a little different. The way I start one is fly into the wind up high and then start to decrease the throttle and start feeding in up elevator. I keep slow down the engine and flaring the plane until I start to see the wings start to tip. At that point it is full left rudder and aliron (while holding up elevator) and they both go right into flat spin.
Yes this manuver will cause the heart rate and nerves to go up. Before you even try this make sure the engine will idle and respond smoothly and reliably from an idle to full throttle. If it does not you will be needing a trash bag. I have not been there and done that but I have seen a number of planes that never recovered and just pancaked right into the dirt. Very painful to watch.
When I do this with the Stinger I let off the controls then give it full down and full power to recover and pull out at the bottom. Normally I will pull it up almost vertical and have it fly away from me at a slight angle and then push it over and snap, lomchevock (spelling sorry) a number of times. After that it time to dive at the run way full throttle and do a high speed down wind pass about 20/25 feet off the deck. As I climb out after the pass (normally doing aliron rolls) I am thinking. Yeeehaw this is fun!!! What next?
Yes this manuver will cause the heart rate and nerves to go up. Before you even try this make sure the engine will idle and respond smoothly and reliably from an idle to full throttle. If it does not you will be needing a trash bag. I have not been there and done that but I have seen a number of planes that never recovered and just pancaked right into the dirt. Very painful to watch.
When I do this with the Stinger I let off the controls then give it full down and full power to recover and pull out at the bottom. Normally I will pull it up almost vertical and have it fly away from me at a slight angle and then push it over and snap, lomchevock (spelling sorry) a number of times. After that it time to dive at the run way full throttle and do a high speed down wind pass about 20/25 feet off the deck. As I climb out after the pass (normally doing aliron rolls) I am thinking. Yeeehaw this is fun!!! What next?
ORIGINAL: WMB
Well I tried it tonight and didn't get the desired results. Didn't rekit it either, but got the heart rate up a bit. I didn't bump up aileron throw, does that help? I may try to get the CG back a bit more. I think it is ~ 1/4" behind the main spar. At one point, I thought I had it but the ground was coming up fast and I baled. It was overcast and difficult to tell up from down.
I'll try again. MikeB
Well I tried it tonight and didn't get the desired results. Didn't rekit it either, but got the heart rate up a bit. I didn't bump up aileron throw, does that help? I may try to get the CG back a bit more. I think it is ~ 1/4" behind the main spar. At one point, I thought I had it but the ground was coming up fast and I baled. It was overcast and difficult to tell up from down.
I'll try again. MikeB
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
Probably the most controlled and prettiest entry is to "fly" it in. You idle throttle while giving full left rudder, keeping the wing slightly angled left wing down with ailerons. once the plane has completely stalled begin feeding in up elevator, and bringing the throttle up. Once the spin is established 2-3 revs or so, just look at the spin rate, you begin to add in right aileron to slow the spin down. This has worked with almost every plane I have tried it with, and it's a little less nerve racking and prettier than leting it come out of a snap spin.
To get out quick Down elevator, burst of throttle, neutral to left aileron, and right rudder.
The most interesting way is to apply full throttle pull the plane up past verticle to about 100 deg then give a momentary "blip" of inside left snap then immediatly reverse the elevator. (so you go from left rudder, left aileron, up elevator; to left rudder, left aileron, down elevator) If you do this correctly the plane will flop, flip, and then break into the flat spin. Notice what position the elevator is in now, up. so you slowly reverse the elevator and add right aileron until the spin is slowed. This technique is highly timing dependent and I didn't include any throttle info becuase you have to judge it for yourself. Only my 4-40 and GP Patty respond quick enough to get in this way.
Have Fun!!! and pray you come out!!!
To get out quick Down elevator, burst of throttle, neutral to left aileron, and right rudder.
The most interesting way is to apply full throttle pull the plane up past verticle to about 100 deg then give a momentary "blip" of inside left snap then immediatly reverse the elevator. (so you go from left rudder, left aileron, up elevator; to left rudder, left aileron, down elevator) If you do this correctly the plane will flop, flip, and then break into the flat spin. Notice what position the elevator is in now, up. so you slowly reverse the elevator and add right aileron until the spin is slowed. This technique is highly timing dependent and I didn't include any throttle info becuase you have to judge it for yourself. Only my 4-40 and GP Patty respond quick enough to get in this way.
Have Fun!!! and pray you come out!!!
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
Yes I have done them that way too. They look great by man do they spin fast.
ORIGINAL: nmking09
Probably the most controlled and prettiest entry is to "fly" it in. You idle throttle while giving full left rudder, keeping the wing slightly angled left wing down with ailerons. once the plane has completely stalled begin feeding in up elevator, and bringing the throttle up. Once the spin is established 2-3 revs or so, just look at the spin rate, you begin to add in right aileron to slow the spin down. This has worked with almost every plane I have tried it with, and it's a little less nerve racking and prettier than leting it come out of a snap spin.
To get out quick Down elevator, burst of throttle, neutral to left aileron, and right rudder.
The most interesting way is to apply full throttle pull the plane up past verticle to about 100 deg then give a momentary "blip" of inside left snap then immediatly reverse the elevator. (so you go from left rudder, left aileron, up elevator; to left rudder, left aileron, down elevator) If you do this correctly the plane will flop, flip, and then break into the flat spin. Notice what position the elevator is in now, up. so you slowly reverse the elevator and add right aileron until the spin is slowed. This technique is highly timing dependent and I didn't include any throttle info becuase you have to judge it for yourself. Only my 4-40 and GP Patty respond quick enough to get in this way.
Have Fun!!! and pray you come out!!!
Probably the most controlled and prettiest entry is to "fly" it in. You idle throttle while giving full left rudder, keeping the wing slightly angled left wing down with ailerons. once the plane has completely stalled begin feeding in up elevator, and bringing the throttle up. Once the spin is established 2-3 revs or so, just look at the spin rate, you begin to add in right aileron to slow the spin down. This has worked with almost every plane I have tried it with, and it's a little less nerve racking and prettier than leting it come out of a snap spin.
To get out quick Down elevator, burst of throttle, neutral to left aileron, and right rudder.
The most interesting way is to apply full throttle pull the plane up past verticle to about 100 deg then give a momentary "blip" of inside left snap then immediatly reverse the elevator. (so you go from left rudder, left aileron, up elevator; to left rudder, left aileron, down elevator) If you do this correctly the plane will flop, flip, and then break into the flat spin. Notice what position the elevator is in now, up. so you slowly reverse the elevator and add right aileron until the spin is slowed. This technique is highly timing dependent and I didn't include any throttle info becuase you have to judge it for yourself. Only my 4-40 and GP Patty respond quick enough to get in this way.
Have Fun!!! and pray you come out!!!
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
Guys, thanks for the thread. I've taken about 12 months off of flying, but after reading what people are doing here with FourStar40s, I got the bug back. Ours had an unusally wimpy 40LA(our Avistar lucked out and came with a wicked 40LA), so Igot a 46LA. That made all the difference Iwas looking for, nice vertical and big loops. Ialso changed from NyRod to steel push rods(thanks to the poster that tipped me off to the trim changes caused by temperature changes; Iwas always retrimming the plane and now I know why that was). I double the throws on my elevator and rudder(it touches the elevator), and I've been very happy and thrilled with the results.
The plane is much more fun to fly. I've mostly been refining spins this weekend, but I've not tried the tips posted here(flying it in, snapping it in, etc). My CG is still on the spar, per the manual, and Ithink I'll leave it there until I've gotten all that I can out of flat spins. One of the posters here(nmking09) is doing some wild things without moving the CG, so I'm encouraged by that.
Has anyone had good luck with inverted flat spins on this plane, especially right rudder inverted spins? Again, thanks for a great thread.
The plane is much more fun to fly. I've mostly been refining spins this weekend, but I've not tried the tips posted here(flying it in, snapping it in, etc). My CG is still on the spar, per the manual, and Ithink I'll leave it there until I've gotten all that I can out of flat spins. One of the posters here(nmking09) is doing some wild things without moving the CG, so I'm encouraged by that.
Has anyone had good luck with inverted flat spins on this plane, especially right rudder inverted spins? Again, thanks for a great thread.
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
Hi all, I asked how to do a flat spin on this thread a couple years ago. I never was able to do it, untill this weekend! Now running an OS55ax, 12x5 APC, cg about 1/8" behind main spar.
Setup- full throttle at ~ 70 upline. When high enough, chop throttle to idle. Wait for nose to drop then give full left aileron and rudder and full up. Now the plane is in a spin I add throttle and opposite aileron. Woo-hoo! The nose comes up, wings are level and it spinning at a guestimated 40-60 rpm. Loses altitude slowly, this is fun.
Let go of the sticks and it just keeps on spinning, uh-ow. [X(] Found that if I return to idle, give right rudder and down elevator it flies out real predictable. Did a bunch this weekend, nice to learn something new.
Other manuevors- knife-edge spin, looks cools, loses altitude fast. I killed two plans this spring learning this.
Knifedge- pulls a little to the gear, a little up elevator straigtens it out. One of my favorite manuevors is get a knife edge going and snap it in the same direction of the rudder and try to get the snap stopped so it is back in knife edge going the same direction. My crashed Giles 202 made this one easy. Now working on inverted flight to knife edge.
The 4* is so forgiving, I get away with a lot. MikeB
Setup- full throttle at ~ 70 upline. When high enough, chop throttle to idle. Wait for nose to drop then give full left aileron and rudder and full up. Now the plane is in a spin I add throttle and opposite aileron. Woo-hoo! The nose comes up, wings are level and it spinning at a guestimated 40-60 rpm. Loses altitude slowly, this is fun.
Let go of the sticks and it just keeps on spinning, uh-ow. [X(] Found that if I return to idle, give right rudder and down elevator it flies out real predictable. Did a bunch this weekend, nice to learn something new.
Other manuevors- knife-edge spin, looks cools, loses altitude fast. I killed two plans this spring learning this.
Knifedge- pulls a little to the gear, a little up elevator straigtens it out. One of my favorite manuevors is get a knife edge going and snap it in the same direction of the rudder and try to get the snap stopped so it is back in knife edge going the same direction. My crashed Giles 202 made this one easy. Now working on inverted flight to knife edge.
The 4* is so forgiving, I get away with a lot. MikeB
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
The trick to most of what I am doing is power (and a lot of control throw). You will probably need more than a 46LA a 46AX would be a better engine, or add a pipe to the LA. I wouldn't worry about increasing the rudder size It will most likely only piss it off this thing enters spins easily enough.
I would, however, recommend increasing the size of the ailerons.
WMB: Sometimes it will stay stuck in a spin no matter what control input you use, then you need to add a couple of throttle blips with the input you described to get the nose down.
BTW: I have moved into flying 100cc airplanes and competing in IMAC but I still can't resist flying my 4* every once in a while. People are always impressed with what it can do.
I would, however, recommend increasing the size of the ailerons.
WMB: Sometimes it will stay stuck in a spin no matter what control input you use, then you need to add a couple of throttle blips with the input you described to get the nose down.
BTW: I have moved into flying 100cc airplanes and competing in IMAC but I still can't resist flying my 4* every once in a while. People are always impressed with what it can do.
#33
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
They spin very well with stock control surfaces if you have a lot of throw with the CG back where it belongs
The 60 is really nice with a Saito 125. doesn't need much balance weight and plenty of power on demand. Take-off at 1/3 throttle
The 60 is really nice with a Saito 125. doesn't need much balance weight and plenty of power on demand. Take-off at 1/3 throttle
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RE: The Story of Four Star 40 Aerobatics
If you mess with a Four Star you will see they will do almost anything with some stick fiddling. Mine is a 40 with a 46ax piped, 11-8 prop at 13,500, clipped wings and half the dihedral. I've moved the cg to about 1/2" behind the spar but didn't like it. It would snap or drop a wing unexpectadly ussually on final. ouch! It was fixed back up and moved to just slightly behind the spar.
I've also added a 3" dorsal fin that helps in knife edge and tracks better up and down lines. Still snaps and spins fast. I like the big ugly canopy it really helps in K.E. They fly quite different with no canopy.
If you notice the LG is formed 2 different ways. At least mine was. You want to attach it so the legs are angled more towards the wing. This will help with the dreaded 4* bounce. This is my 2nd 4* I just love these planes. :-)
Peace, J
I've also added a 3" dorsal fin that helps in knife edge and tracks better up and down lines. Still snaps and spins fast. I like the big ugly canopy it really helps in K.E. They fly quite different with no canopy.
If you notice the LG is formed 2 different ways. At least mine was. You want to attach it so the legs are angled more towards the wing. This will help with the dreaded 4* bounce. This is my 2nd 4* I just love these planes. :-)
Peace, J