combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I agree with your timeline of key events but my question still goes unanswered.
I don't think ARFs just showed up en masse one day and then magically transformed the market's taste buds...at least not to the majority.
In fact the first ARFs [from China] were terrible but they were gobbled up like Cheezewhiz, cheap beer and Wonderbread and so began the scramble to meet demand with what we have today.
[I allowed myself to get suckered into buying a few of the early ones on impulses......and pretty slick advertising.]

GallopingGhostler

No, my point was there is more to the story. Costs have more or less driven the hobby industry, as the earlier kit manufacturers recognized. I remember hearing of kits being produced in the millions annually by a manufacturer. In order to sell, they had to be made in such a manner that they could compete. I remember of Scientific CL kits retailing as low as $1.25, discounted below that by the hobby shop to sell. I bought my first RC kit in 1972, a Top Flite .020 Schoolboy. It cost me somewhere under $5 from Hobby Shack mail order.

Nowadays, kits are overall better quality, wood and finish wise. Prices are up because kits aren't manufactured is as great of quantities as before. They have become what used to "deluxe kits".

Regardless of the reasons, recently although there have been many good deals come my way, I have decided against purchasing additional ARF's for the simple reason I have sufficient unbuilt kits to finish first.

Stickbuilder

Would you like me to post a video of my planes on the ground, or would you rather come watch while we fly? I have a little trouble doing a video while I'm flying. Hands are just a little busy with the airplane and doing that pilot stuff. If you think that I'd trust Vinnie, or Karl, or Frankie with my camera, then think again.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

sensei

As I suspected, all bark, no bite. Thanks for making my point valid about the panic stuff, I mean pilot stuff. Remember, practice makes perfect.

Bob

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

A camera bolted to a hard hat works really well for shooting your flights while at the controls.
If I was involved with the activities where the plane gets judged on appearance and on how well it flies, it sure would be a hollow victory to be entered with a plane that someone else built. The awards go to the owner, you see....and not to the plane.
I would have to lower my personal standards to feel good about winning a contest with someone elses' creation and that aint gonna happen.

GallopingGhostler

Excellent idea, CP. I have several hard hats from my construction days and a Vivitar helmet cam I bought on sale. I want to be able to film my Gilbert .074 Thunderhead powered CL Baby Ringmaster Gee Bee Z variant on 30 feet (9.1 m) Dacron when the weather warms up here (now 18 F or -8 C) and I finish the fuel proof clear coat.

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

Every previous generation says this type of stuff about the next. Let me tell you something about my generation.

WE support your old butts with Social security, something I will not have the luxery of. I have to save for my retirement, everything I will have by the time I am your age will be EARNED not entitled.

I live in an enviroment where I Have to learn a lot more and I have to work harder. I cant just go run a lathe and make big $ anymore. I Have to know how to program computers, do math, and analysis.

I dont have time or energy to build something from the ground up and it doesnt make me any less a man. A MONKEY can build a kit, it just takes time. TIME I would rather spend with my children and family, then run out to the field an fly my ARFs.

There is nothing special about building kits at all. Its just once again a bunch of old guys having some self esteem issues and taking it out on the younger guys. They spent all their time playing with sticks instead of chasing hot woman and having fun. Sick of hearing about it.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Ha ha i have been paying in taxes for close to 40 years and still working pert time so you aint suporting me sonny boy. We cant help it if you did not work hard enogh to get to the top and enjoy the perks that come along with it (more time to build and fly) let us know when you do. joe

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

Cool can you mail me my SS payments I made last year? I'd like to have them back so I can add them to my 401K where they rightfully belong.
Even if I had more time I would not waste it building kits.

If you have been paying taxes for 40 years, I guess that makes you 58 (40 yerars start paying at 18)? I am 34 so I am sure when I get your age I'll be where you are, but it might actually be 62 since I gave 4 years to the military.

Curious, how many did you give? I'd like to factor it to determine how far I really am behind.

But atleast we agree its time and nothing more.

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

My money in proffit sharing and investments have been hit hard in the last four years but i dont cry about it. joe

804

My Feedback: (1)

You are absolutely right. I've been telling some of these old farts (and I'm sort of old, at 55) the same thing for a long time, but they won't listen.
It's a form of prejudice, and like any, it's in most of us, you just have to fight it. I heard the same crap as I grew up, and vowed not to let myself fall into the same old rut.
Just take that into consideration, and when you get old and cranky, try to be easy on the next generation.

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

All these internet tough-guys. Old men growling, trying to be intimidating. Haw! These are the same type of grouchy, past-their-freshness-date A-holes that make going to the field unpleasant.

1) Ain't nobody scared of you, old man.

2) Anybody who has to use the term "sonny-boy" to try to win an argument automatically negates themselves.

3) Bottom line: fighting in the forums is like the Special Olympics. You might "win", but you're still retarded.

804

My Feedback: (1)

I hope you were not replying to me. I'm on your side.

essyou35

My Feedback: (11)

One time one of these old *******s came up to my wife at the field and put a cold Soda on her butt since she was wearing shorts. My initial reaction was to knock him out but Instead I realized it wasn't that big of deal since I will be like that someday for sure.

Rv7garage

My Feedback: (10)

[/quote] ORIGINAL: 804
I hope you were not replying to me. I'm on your side.
[/quote]


No, no- this was aimed at the needlessly unpleasant, pointlessly crotchety old farts who only seem to contribute their negative comments to this otherwise fine hobby!

jquid

Wow. lots going on in this thread.
Ok I started building kits when I was 12. For one kits were all that were available at the time, and it was cheaper that way. I built a Goldberg Gentle Lady, and saved 2 summers for a 3 channel Futaba.

I learned to fly with a bunch of retired pilots, some from WWII, some commercial. (late70's). I learned to build better, straighter from flying with them and then on my own.
For people with the "Instant gratification for humans"- there was gratification from building. I read the instructions, cut parts, I built another part of the airplane and it looked like the picture! Gratification arrived. Then each part, then it looked like a plane all complete, more gratification! Then out to the field, it flies! Even more gratification.
I was 12-13.

Skip ahead to this forum, and today. I would say everyone here posting is above age 12. We have families now, or retired or in between. For each one of us each part of what I just described either gives us pleasure, or it does not. some like to just fly and go fast as hell, others like to fly but like to go slow, or hover.

Others like to build something that is not in a current kit, or ARF, that gives them the most pleasure.

My point is, the hobby has so much different directions to go, none is right or wrong. It is what makes each person, personally happy. My son is 5, and this summer we plan on getting him an airplane to fly, yes it will be an arf, most likely the multiplex one. Why? because if he like the flying part, he would most likely like going into the workshop with Dad and building his first kit by himself. He would already know how to fly, and understand why it flies. Now he can understand the building process better. Why does this need to be strong here, or why do I need to put this silly wingtip higher at the tip?

We all have busy lives, and sometimes we do not have the time we had when we were 12, agreed?

We can keep the kits alive, by showing the next generation what it is about-IF that interests them.
I had a professor in my Avionics class that was trying to get more women into the field, he felt there was an unfair amount of guys in the programs. Well, when you talked to them, they just were not interested in that particular field, so why make them? Why bash ARFers, and Kitters? Neither is right or wrong, it is a hobby, and each person should be respected for what they decide to do. Any true heli kits out there anymore? I still have a GMP Cricket. Any today come with all screws in bags, and metal pieces to be assembled, any wood to be glued together to make a servo mount? I think most heli kits are not true kits anymore, but those guys have a much harder time flying than fixed wing. But that is just another facet of the hobby-not wrong, not right.

If someone shows up to the field with a plane that looks unsafe, or crappy heavy, why not help them? Give them some pointers? Help them check the CG, the engine running right. This thread was littered with "He looks Dangerous", or he can't build. or I got his stuff because he couldn't get the engine tuned even! Share with them your experiences, and don't just turn and look away, and say, wow I knew that was going to happen.

just my .02 spend it the way you like.

nyfed

I have been in the hobby for over 30 years off and on. I have had several ARFS some very nice however they all have the same common problem. The glue used looks like hot glue in spots only. I have lost two giant scale arfs to failure of the firewall The engine and firewall just seperate frome the aircraft in flight. Other club members have had the same problem. I have taken new ARF kits and glued every joint I could get to.Some firewalls are covered and not accessable. So back to building present project a Balsa USA 1/4 scale J3 cub with DLE 20 gas engine

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

And its your type that makes going on the internet a problem. If you want to change things at your club field have you ever thought to run for office or just keep complaining about the guys who do run the clubs . As far as fighting on the internet iam close enough to go a few rounds with you so name the time and place. joe

joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

I try to be nice to every one but he thinks that us OLD guys are sitting around on ss having a blast. lol I paid for his older relitives and some probly on his kids as he gets a healthy check at the end of the year and us old guys dont. After your kids are grown and gone and you cant write them off each year then complain but you dont see me shedding any tears over it . joe

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Wrong. Everybody who works "over the table" pays their fair share into SS. As designed the system would be self sustaining if some of the funds didn't get siphoned off into other programs

GallopingGhostler

I know what you are saying, nyfed. I've been in the hobby some 47 years off and on, too. Sorry to hear you lose 2 big ARF's due to hidden construction defects.

That was one thing good about the American made ARF's. They were quality products (in spite of the field rants some 20 - 30 years ago) and would perform adequately if one assembled them according to instructions.

Yes, that is one advantage to kits and scratch building. If there are any problems, the builder can only blame themselves. Usually more than not, the builder did it right. It also allows opportunities, particularly on earlier designs to make structural corrections to improve the strength and fly-ability of the planes.

DMichael

My Feedback: (5)

I was just a young boy then but my Dad used to get the magazines this rang a bell for me.... low and behold- I can clearly remember this advertisement- thanks for the memory.

sensei

[quote]ORIGINAL: combatpigg

A camera bolted to a hard hat works really well for shooting your flights while at the controls.
If I was involved with the activities where the plane gets judged on appearance and on how well it flies, it sure would be a hollow victory to be entered with a plane that someone else built. The awards go to the owner, you see....and not to the plane.
I would have to lower my personal standards to feel good about winning a contest with someone elses' creation and that aint gonna happen.
[/quote

I agree with you, and I build everything I fly too but many sponsored and ARF Pilots spend year in and out flying and pushing the envelope while guys like me spend most there time building, thats why I am only an advanced pilot and will never be an expert pilot. It is what it is...

Bob

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

[quote]ORIGINAL: combatpigg
If I was involved with the activities where the plane gets judged on appearance and on how well it flies, it sure would be a hollow victory to be entered with a plane that someone else built. The awards go to the owner, you see....and not to the plane.
I would have to lower my personal standards to feel good about winning a contest with someone elses' creation and that aint gonna happen.
[/quote



I have more respect and admiration for your accomplishments than the corporate sponsored guys.
On the FAI level the old USSR had teams of full time paid personnel who lived in campuses that were dedicated to the various control line events. The pilots had builders and mechanics with full access to any and all resources that they needed. As an American who pays his own way to compete at the World Chamionships how would you feel about that...?
I also have more repect for all the other guys in motorsports who are "self made" men. It wasn't that long ago when a guy who owned a welding shop or a machine shop could also own the National Record in Top Fuel.

scochrane

Try to find a kit to build. I was looking for a c /l. Kit to build, LHS doesn't carry anything to build any more all ARFs and RTFs