ovationdave

My Feedback: (16)

I am right there with you. I do both. and for the same reason, sometimes you want to build, but I go though phases where I want to fly. I don't want to wait for my build to get done. There can be a balance.....

~Dave

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Some people will complain even if you hang them with a new rope.

eddieC

My Feedback: (2)

Nobody's complaining, other than for poor workmanship.

Muttdog

I am a flyer, my Father in law is a builder. Forget the fact that I own my own business that eats a ton of time and another passion of riding MX bikes. It really does not matter if Ihave the time/money/room etc.I have built a plane before and to be honest Isimply don't care for it. Glad Igot the experience but it's not my cup of tea.I like the thrill of flying and that's that. My Father in Law spends months in the shop and many times pays or gets local pros at the field to fly his planes for him. Either way I see nothing wrong with either one. Same thing happens in full size flight. Most buy planes but some build and fly their own. I never hear kit builders telling cessna owners that they are not "true" pilots or whatever you want to say. I also believe that the ARF market has vaulted this hobby to heights never before seen. Some may not like that but the flip side is more people in the hobbyequals more dollars and more dollars equals new equipment, new vendors and better competition/product. Would we have seen the 2.4Ghzrevolution or the gas engine revolution? Perhaps, but the ARF market and the dollars that drive it are huge influences in new product development that all of us get to enjoy regardless of what side of the fence you are on. Just my .02 - MD

ssautter

For those who don't like to cover kits with film:

I'd highly recommend attending a FF or C/L event, in which many modelers use silkspan or tissue and dope.

Mylar covering is rather quirky to work with, andsome non-RC builders shy away from it....for good reason.

Some newer modelers prefer covering with white casein glue or a purple glue stickover butyrateand nitrate dope.

There's also the option of using clear coats from a rattle can, or even future floor polish, if the smell of dope bothers the builder.

Whatever I have on hand, is what always works best for me. And, whatever is in-stock at the hardware store is what works second best.

My local FF CD uses tissue that's so old, it's developed holes in storage! So, I'm definitely the kinda flying buddy who'll support "run what u brung".

Having written all that....I prefer to paint my models, if I can. Monokote, UltraCote, and other films are fine on open structures, but don't impress me in the long-run.

One could even argue that molded-composite fuselages andlift surfaceswith live kevlar hinges are "ARF"s; but, the knowledge and experience needed to complete and fly such models would beg to differ.

topspin

I read recently that no one sells silk span anymore.

straitnickel

Tower had it not long ago. I guess I got to go check. It wasn't cheap.

straitnickel

I checked,
Tower has K&S silkspan in three different weights.

GallopingGhostler

ARF's were available back in the 1960's, 1970's. They were expensive compared with kits. The affordable foam jobs became available in the late 1980's, I bought a few. In the 1990's, I bought a .40 sized Flitecraft J3 Cub. So, to say I didn't build ARF's would be incorrect.

I've accumulated sufficient kits that I had to draw a line. Thus, my goal is now to build what I have. Rather than purchase ARF's, I'm scratch building with foam. They've got the quick build of ARF's with the fun of kit building.

GallopingGhostler

There are those who build CL's with the plastic film coverings, so not all FF and CL fliers use traditional tissue, silkspan or silk coverings. There's a lot of freedom of choice.

airborneSGT

My Feedback: (15)

I have a job, own a company, play drums in a band, have a daugher now and also have a wife. All these things really take up a lot of time. Lately my free time I spend travling Europe with my family. When I am back in the states I might build me a 40% kit or so. My problem is I start something and never finish for any number of reasons. ARF's offer me a way to "assemble" and enjoy the time I do have to fly.

Back when I was a single guy living in the barracks I used to love building and actually built flying and plastic models. During those times it was just passing time until I was out of the Army!

GallopingGhostler

You mention about starting and not finishing a kit, airborneSGT. Yes, I've done that before. It seems if I don't complete it in a timely manner, I lose the synergy. It takes a bit to get it back. I find it the same way with ARF's as well. It requires me to push through and eventually I'll get them done.

You are correct, though. The ARF's do help the busy person to go flying. That is part of the reason why I never picked out complex building kits. I have a blast flying the simple building ones, just as much as I would with a complex building one. As you see, I probably won't be doing many Cleveland kits.

I play baritone and alto saxophones in the Clovis Community Band. I was a 02J and a 02L in a former life.

ssautter

Yes,

Some people are allergic to CA fumes and, me personally, I'm extremely allergic to carbon fiber and fiberglass.

Doesn't mean I won't fly a carbon fiber airplane....just so long as someone else builds it!

GallopingGhostler

Nowadays I use properly rated NIOSH N95 masks for sanding and N97 masks for stuff like fiberglass, and a respirator with filters when painting. Nowadays they are affordable and worth the cost in the reduction of discomfort and health issues. Anyway, that's worked for me. YMMV.

ssautter

Great!

I'd need a full-body respirator, as my allergic reactions show themselves in the form of skin rashes.

Will you sand my composite fuses for me? LOL

Lately, I've been going for the traditional forms of covering, like tissue,while using the newer, hypoallergenic,forms of adhesion like purple glue sticks and spray finish.

Here's to your health....

GallopingGhostler

Ouch! Then you really have it severe, ssautter. Short of wearing a Tyvec bunny suit and gloves an asbestos abater would wear, then you are limited in what you can build. I've got allergies, but not that severe.

ssautter

Balsa dust doesn't bother me too much, so I build traditional stick-and-tissue models.

It's nearly impossible to find competitive RTF FF and C/L models, so I alternate between flying RC ARFs and building traditional kits.

It all depends on what I'm flying during any given season. I've participated in IMAC contests without a single kit on the flightline!

Meanwhile, I've entered free flight contests without a single ARF allowed. And, I still like building GWS foamies, profile foamies, and SPADs.

GallopingGhostler

I can understand that, sautter. I as an adolescent started out with Comet rubber powered stick and tissue kits, then graduated to 1/2-A CL planes, then RC. I love to build, but also love simplicity in designs that allow quick building. Talking about stick building, I bought a Miss Stik Senior 55" (1 400 mm) Texaco-like electric floater from Hobby Lobby when they were still selling it, hope to build soon. It is definitely a stick build, even the wing ribs are built up. Plan to power it with a venerable Fuji .099S-II cross scavenged ABC with baffle piston engine (low 5.5:1 compression ratio).

But also will be building bigger stuff to be able to handle the Clovis winds.

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

maybe it does make them a better "modeler" in the "model builder" sense of the word...but there are a 1000 different facets to this hobby of ours that people can enjoy and with all the prebuilt planes today a person that just enjoys flying doesn't have to be a modeler any more. then there are great model builders out there who don't fly. there are guys who could care less about all this building and flying and just like to bench mount engines and run them. there's something for everyone in this hobby and the important part is to respect someone else's choices even if they don't reflect your own view of what's enjoyable....it's not like they're stamp collectors or something nasty like that...

mnmopar

My Feedback: (1)

In my opinion there are two types of aircraft modelers. Those who enjoy building and flying and those who just enjoy flying. I wouldn't say one is better than the other but I can see why we are becoming an ARF or RTF world. The way we live leaves a lot of us working stiffs with out a lot of time for a hobby. Back when I was a kid and just getting started in the flying hobby, I wanted an ARF so bad. Mainly because I just wanted to fly. That was my main interest. My dad said if we were going to do this we were going to build the kit. His number one reason was because when, not if, it crashed we would know how to fix it. I was so frustrated that entire winter while we built the plane. Then after that first season of flying we build another kit the following winter. I took 15 years off to "grow up" one might say. I am back flying and love the hobby even more. I have found that buying cheap planes off Craig's list and repairing either a mild crash or just hangar rash is really fun. A great stress reliever after work. I also like recovering them in my own design. I credit all my skills I have now to building and repairing the kits I built years ago. I have built a CG Ultimate and own a never flown ARF version and the main reason I like kits is having the ability to reinforce weak spots and improve upon designs. I like the idea of ARF's but it seems I haven't found one that I feel has been built as sturdy as I would build a kit.

ssautter

Those who just enjoy flying aren't really "modelers" at all!

I go through my phases, too. This winter, my AMA-chartered club is flying indoors, and has a much larger space than last year.

But, I haven't joined them once since the New Years meeting, 'cause I'mpreoccupied repairing all the models I bashed over the summer.

As mentioned earlier, some people just don't have the shop space for bench tools and scratch building. I'm somewhere in-between.

My garage is ridiculously cold in the winter, without heat and insulation, so I solder and dremel and paint outside, and build inside.

SPADs and profile foamies are about the extent of my "scratch building". Not a bad way to move away from big-box brands and Chinese ARF's.

Here's some links forARF pilots, wanting to model more: http://www.spadtothebone.net/freeplans.htmhttp://www.********.com/gliders/glidersabout.htm

topspin

I was just looking at BP's website and they have a polyester material that is like the old silkspan only better. They also have a bunch of other new type covering materials, at least new to me.

ssautter

Anotherrelated question I have is why don't RC kit builders fly ARFs?

The following video shows a very elaborate kit, crashing on its maiden flight....just as a disclaimer: this video is not my intellectual property.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV0ZcVbM82k

If a modeller spend multiple years and thousands of dollars,building a kit, it is still a good idea tolog hours on an ARF, so that the maiden flight of the kit is a non-event.

Many of the Pros have "practice planes" or "backup planes" andmaster builders cando the same.

Practicing with asimilarARF, or even a cheap RTF foamy, just might save you thepain of crashing your high-dollar invesment.

GallopingGhostler

Can't say based on the video whether a controls malfunction or what, looks like he stalled it. Here's another DC-3, a smaller version, it gets dorked also.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTUoGLKKdfE[/youtube]

Practice makes perfect of course, but it also doesn't hurt to inspect one's gear linkages and all, and makes sure it is performing properly prior to flight.

Here's another, pilot lost an engine on this P-38 and should have cut power, brought it in as though dead stick.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDLP4onEuY[/youtube]

Oh, and I wanted to add, what about that ARF pilot who after having many satisfying flights on that Bixler park flier buys himself a decently sized T-28 Trojan war bird, then totals it on the first flight? ARF's are handy, but whether one or the other there is a learning curve. Of course it makes more sense to have a certain mastery sufficient for the step up, which may dictate some form of intermediate flier, even an ARF if need be. I think it not an issue of build versus ARF, but good common sense. And in spite of the best efforts, sometimes stuff just happens.

804

My Feedback: (1)

At the end of the vid., someone says something about ailerons being backwards.
So, yes, one should definitely practice flying many times with reversed ailerons, (or any reversed control surfaces, for that matter),
with something expendable before trying it on a maiden flight of something like that C-47.