Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
12-21-2003, 10:28 AM
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Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Hi Guys,
I need some input. I found someone who has both a Top Flite Taurus and Graupner Kwik Fli 3 for auction. I can only try for one of them, which should I go for?
Thanks,
Larry
I need some input. I found someone who has both a Top Flite Taurus and Graupner Kwik Fli 3 for auction. I can only try for one of them, which should I go for?
Thanks,
Larry
12-22-2003, 03:33 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Don't know what the bid is on the Taurus but you can order a newly cut Taurus kit from Joe Grasso of Vintage Kits in North Carolina for $159.95 plus shipping. His phone number is 828.631.2693.
12-22-2003, 06:35 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Thank you, that is great news. does he do a Kwik Fli also. How is the quality of his kits.
Happy Hloidays and thanks,
Larry
Happy Hloidays and thanks,
Larry
12-23-2003, 11:49 AM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
I have one kit that Joe Grasso custom cut for me and it is awesome! He did things like bevel the corners on blocks where they needed it, instead of leaving the rough ends to be sanded. He printed paper ID labels and stuck them on the parts rather than write on the part. The wood is well selected and appropriate to the purpose. The cuts are perfect, and the kit is so clean, I doubt there is any balsa dust in the bottom of the box. I have one of his Sr Falcons on order now.
Kelvin
Kelvin
12-23-2003, 12:55 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Yes, as Kelvin says, his kits are awesome. I don't believe he has the Kwik Fli. He does have a number of the old pattern kits though. Give him a call.
12-25-2003, 10:25 PM
#6
RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Flew both planes back in the sixties and I would recomend the Taurus. The Graupner kit wasn't that great and the Kwik Fli 3 had a tail wiggle in rough air that I didn't like. If I remember the fuse on the Kwik Fli didn't have that much room for the radio eq....but back in the sixties all our radios were bigger.
12-25-2003, 11:40 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
I have had several hundred hours (that is factual) on each A/C.
Both were TopFlite kits . The Taurus is the most significant as it IS the DC-3 of model aerobatics. Ed Kazmirski won both the Nats in 1962 and the first World's Championship using Orbit ten channel reeds. More importantly, the man in the street, the ordinary modeler, won with this design. Not just for a few contests but for a number of years ! Those of us from this period will tell you that every low wing Pattern plane out there is a modified Taurus------so influential was this design !
The Taurus is held in a special place in my heart and was light years ahead of competitive designs. It was designed for what we used to call "Multi" (multiple controls) and reeds were IT at that time. When digital propo appeared in the late sixties, the model was still top rank and I for one flew it through the late sixties.
The Kwik Fli was a Phil Kraft design meant for propo.. When it morphed to the KF lll in 1968-69 Phil won the Nats and the World championship, which gave rise to the Kraft Gold Medal Series ----and soon Kraft was in the "Cat Bird Seat" with his radios.
No one ever called the KF lll a pretty A/C as it was a constant chord with barn doors and a flat stab. In short all aesthetics were abandoned for function. Even Phil Kraft described it as such.
It too was a plane with which the ordinary modeler could win a Pattern contest. Bill Winter, then Editor of MAN (and a friend of Phil Kraft) wrote that ----"model aviation had been set back twenty years "-----by Phil's World and Nats chanpionship with the KF lll.
Comparing the two (for old time's sake I built another Taurus this time powered by a Webra .61 Blackhead (original design was for a .35 up to a .45)-----that was LARGE then. I also flew the KF lll at the same time with the same power, each with the latest Kraft Sig. Series radio.
I was saddened to see that the majestic Taurus could not begin to match the clean (for that time) maneuvers that the not so pretty KF lll could produce-------Kwik Fli Dance and all.
The KF lll "KF Dance" as we called it was a tail wagging tendency particularly when coming out of stalled maneuvers---- not a true "Dutch Roll" as the roll axis was unaffected. With low wind conditions the KF lll was VERY formidable competition for any other design of that time .
Which should you build ? If you want real Pattern nostalgia------then its the TAURUS. But, be aware that with a 2419 airfoil it flies a lot like a Parachute-----but, you can fly it so slowly that with any wind at all you can go back-wards with total control and land it either with the nose gear high while settling in on the mains, or at a speed so slow, that it has to be seen to be believed.
And yes it will do all the Pattern maneuvers, but slowly.
The KF lll flight characteristics, in maneuvers, are more closely related to today than to the very early pattern flying . No, it could not be said that it flies like a current two meter plane as it doesn't. But it is loads cleaner flying than my beloved Taurus.
Long winded perhaps but a VERY accurate comparison of the two designs. Take your choice as you now have the facts. When these designs were current I flew 30 to 33 gallons a year and that in a climate where May through October is a FULL season. and both designs used 8 oz. tanks !
Do the math at 8 oz per ten minute flight.
Good luck with whatever your choice may be. Each design is "Championship quality" for their time.
Both were TopFlite kits . The Taurus is the most significant as it IS the DC-3 of model aerobatics. Ed Kazmirski won both the Nats in 1962 and the first World's Championship using Orbit ten channel reeds. More importantly, the man in the street, the ordinary modeler, won with this design. Not just for a few contests but for a number of years ! Those of us from this period will tell you that every low wing Pattern plane out there is a modified Taurus------so influential was this design !
The Taurus is held in a special place in my heart and was light years ahead of competitive designs. It was designed for what we used to call "Multi" (multiple controls) and reeds were IT at that time. When digital propo appeared in the late sixties, the model was still top rank and I for one flew it through the late sixties.
The Kwik Fli was a Phil Kraft design meant for propo.. When it morphed to the KF lll in 1968-69 Phil won the Nats and the World championship, which gave rise to the Kraft Gold Medal Series ----and soon Kraft was in the "Cat Bird Seat" with his radios.
No one ever called the KF lll a pretty A/C as it was a constant chord with barn doors and a flat stab. In short all aesthetics were abandoned for function. Even Phil Kraft described it as such.
It too was a plane with which the ordinary modeler could win a Pattern contest. Bill Winter, then Editor of MAN (and a friend of Phil Kraft) wrote that ----"model aviation had been set back twenty years "-----by Phil's World and Nats chanpionship with the KF lll.
Comparing the two (for old time's sake I built another Taurus this time powered by a Webra .61 Blackhead (original design was for a .35 up to a .45)-----that was LARGE then. I also flew the KF lll at the same time with the same power, each with the latest Kraft Sig. Series radio.
I was saddened to see that the majestic Taurus could not begin to match the clean (for that time) maneuvers that the not so pretty KF lll could produce-------Kwik Fli Dance and all.
The KF lll "KF Dance" as we called it was a tail wagging tendency particularly when coming out of stalled maneuvers---- not a true "Dutch Roll" as the roll axis was unaffected. With low wind conditions the KF lll was VERY formidable competition for any other design of that time .
Which should you build ? If you want real Pattern nostalgia------then its the TAURUS. But, be aware that with a 2419 airfoil it flies a lot like a Parachute-----but, you can fly it so slowly that with any wind at all you can go back-wards with total control and land it either with the nose gear high while settling in on the mains, or at a speed so slow, that it has to be seen to be believed.
And yes it will do all the Pattern maneuvers, but slowly.
The KF lll flight characteristics, in maneuvers, are more closely related to today than to the very early pattern flying . No, it could not be said that it flies like a current two meter plane as it doesn't. But it is loads cleaner flying than my beloved Taurus.
Long winded perhaps but a VERY accurate comparison of the two designs. Take your choice as you now have the facts. When these designs were current I flew 30 to 33 gallons a year and that in a climate where May through October is a FULL season. and both designs used 8 oz. tanks !
Do the math at 8 oz per ten minute flight.
Good luck with whatever your choice may be. Each design is "Championship quality" for their time.
12-28-2003, 08:25 PM
#8
RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Interesting, I did not know that Top Flite ended up kitting the Kwik Fli 3.
Larry, IF you really did find a Graupner kit like I did in the sixties, let me tell you what I found...
The Kwik Fli 3 I bought back in the early sixties was a REAL Graupner kit. The writting on the box was German and the plans and "small" instruction book were also. If I remember correctly it was a tall box because the fuselage was "pre-built". Because everything was metric, the balsa wood was also. The balsa sheeting for the wings were hard enough to shingle your house and because of the odd size I had to use my own 1'16 wood. Like Onewasp said, it was no beauty. Flying this plane here on the plains where the wind blows everyday was probly why I did't like it. I sold mine to a guy that had a new Tigertail kit.....which I loved to fly for many years....and sometimes won me trophies when I got lucky.
Lost the Tigertail at a contest due to a freq mixup at the impound tent. Hated to see the Tiger go but had a new Phoenix 8 ready to go....which I still have, in the rafters.
Larry, IF you really did find a Graupner kit like I did in the sixties, let me tell you what I found...
The Kwik Fli 3 I bought back in the early sixties was a REAL Graupner kit. The writting on the box was German and the plans and "small" instruction book were also. If I remember correctly it was a tall box because the fuselage was "pre-built". Because everything was metric, the balsa wood was also. The balsa sheeting for the wings were hard enough to shingle your house and because of the odd size I had to use my own 1'16 wood. Like Onewasp said, it was no beauty. Flying this plane here on the plains where the wind blows everyday was probly why I did't like it. I sold mine to a guy that had a new Tigertail kit.....which I loved to fly for many years....and sometimes won me trophies when I got lucky.
Lost the Tigertail at a contest due to a freq mixup at the impound tent. Hated to see the Tiger go but had a new Phoenix 8 ready to go....which I still have, in the rafters.
12-30-2003, 04:43 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
[quote]ORIGINAL: staggerwing
Don't know what the bid is on the Taurus but you can order a newly cut Taurus kit from Joe Grasso of Vintage Kits in North Carolina for $159.95 plus shipping. His phone number is 828.631.2693.
[/quote
Hello I am also interested in a Taurus and I live in NC I tried calling this phone number but it is disconected do you have any other type of contact information for Joe Grasso any information would be apreciated
Thanks
Marcos
Don't know what the bid is on the Taurus but you can order a newly cut Taurus kit from Joe Grasso of Vintage Kits in North Carolina for $159.95 plus shipping. His phone number is 828.631.2693.
[/quote
Hello I am also interested in a Taurus and I live in NC I tried calling this phone number but it is disconected do you have any other type of contact information for Joe Grasso any information would be apreciated
Thanks
Marcos
01-09-2004, 09:40 AM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Easy question for me,,,Hands down, The Taurus. It's simply the 57 Chevy of pattern planes.
Lost mine last year to a poor glue joint on the stab,,, BUT I GOT ANOTHER ONE ON THE BOARD
Lost mine last year to a poor glue joint on the stab,,, BUT I GOT ANOTHER ONE ON THE BOARD
02-20-2004, 08:02 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Does anyone have any info on Joe Grasso/Vintage kits? I tried the 828 ph #---disconnected, etc. I sure would like to connect with him if he is still around and doing these kits. I tried various methods to find him with no success. Any help/info greatly appreciated
Thanks,
Sam [email protected]
Thanks,
Sam [email protected]
03-02-2004, 03:53 PM
#14
RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
One simple question.
What is a Kwik Fly III. not the plane of my picture?
It's what the Tauri Flyer says, Taurus, the Chevy 57 of the pattern planes.
And this is the plane that I have in my room now, it's gonna fly one of these days.
When I read all the stories, I think it's the last Taurus on earth, or am I wrong, show me.
Taurus Flyer
What is a Kwik Fly III. not the plane of my picture?
It's what the Tauri Flyer says, Taurus, the Chevy 57 of the pattern planes.
And this is the plane that I have in my room now, it's gonna fly one of these days.
When I read all the stories, I think it's the last Taurus on earth, or am I wrong, show me.
Taurus Flyer
03-02-2004, 06:40 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Wow,
That's a nice one!! Looks like you even did the thread hinges too. Did you scratch build it or was it a kit? As to being the last one in the world--I believe a lot of guys are realizing what a good airplane it is, and that is generating a resurgence of interest. Re: Kwik Fli--never had one of those--lost my Taurus several years ago to reversed ailerons, had laid off flying for a while and it took me too long to figure out what was wrong--
I see you are in the Netherlands--did you relocate up there? Just curious after seeing the AMA # on the wing
Good flying--when it gets warmer--
Sam
That's a nice one!! Looks like you even did the thread hinges too. Did you scratch build it or was it a kit? As to being the last one in the world--I believe a lot of guys are realizing what a good airplane it is, and that is generating a resurgence of interest. Re: Kwik Fli--never had one of those--lost my Taurus several years ago to reversed ailerons, had laid off flying for a while and it took me too long to figure out what was wrong--
I see you are in the Netherlands--did you relocate up there? Just curious after seeing the AMA # on the wing
Good flying--when it gets warmer--
Sam
03-03-2004, 03:38 AM
#16
RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Hallo Sam
This Taurus has to be a copy of the original plane of Ed Kazmirski, so also the AMA number 15204.
It's scratch build with modernfications, wing nuts, rudders hanges, proportional control equipment and some other details. Only the blue color is not the right marine blue color. All the information to build it, I did receive from a colleague from Michigan in the form of copies of the article of the Taurus in magazine Model Airplane News issue January 1963.
This Taurus has to be a copy of the original plane of Ed Kazmirski, so also the AMA number 15204.
It's scratch build with modernfications, wing nuts, rudders hanges, proportional control equipment and some other details. Only the blue color is not the right marine blue color. All the information to build it, I did receive from a colleague from Michigan in the form of copies of the article of the Taurus in magazine Model Airplane News issue January 1963.
07-25-2008, 07:29 AM
#18
RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
One simple question.
What is a Kwik Fly III. not the plane of my picture?
It's what the Tauri Flyer says, Taurus, the Chevy 57 of the pattern planes.
And this is the plane that I have in my room now, it's gonna fly one of these days.
When I read all the stories, I think it's the last Taurus on earth, or am I wrong, show me.
Taurus Flyer
One simple question.
What is a Kwik Fly III. not the plane of my picture?
It's what the Tauri Flyer says, Taurus, the Chevy 57 of the pattern planes.
And this is the plane that I have in my room now, it's gonna fly one of these days.
When I read all the stories, I think it's the last Taurus on earth, or am I wrong, show me.
Taurus Flyer
I was wrong indeed, See Pattern Flying / Classic Pattern Flying / Thread: Ed Kazmirski's Taurus, in 1963 used by him in Genk, Belgium during the Internationals, still was there!!
07-30-2008, 02:29 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Even after Graupner started selling its ARF version last year you will still get some attention with the old one!
08-01-2008, 08:52 AM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Hi Cees,
yes you are right. it's a robbe Mäxi! All balsa design from the Sixties, very nice flyer with an HB 61.
yes you are right. it's a robbe Mäxi! All balsa design from the Sixties, very nice flyer with an HB 61.
08-01-2008, 09:36 AM
#22
RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Holderlin,
Be carefull with your HB61, I did have troubles with the liner and piston, maybe destroyed by using synthetic oil.
Cees
Be carefull with your HB61, I did have troubles with the liner and piston, maybe destroyed by using synthetic oil.
Cees
08-02-2008, 05:55 PM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Just for your amusement, would you guys believe I built a Taurus while in the Navy, aboard the USS Constellation in 1974. I bought the kit at the Subic Bay Naval Station for $35.00 and an OS .35 two-stroker for the same price. I worked and completed it in a few months time on my off time while off the coast of "Nam. I worked in the airframes shop. I have old Kodak slide photos of it somewheres. Crashed it and never did pursue another till now. The engine is still on one of my parts shelves. MM
08-03-2008, 01:39 AM
#24
RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Nice story, MormonMike,
Asking myself, is there a Country where they did not know the Taurus.
And maybe you onces show us a picture, you will like it yourself.
As you say:"Crashed it and never did pursue another till now."
So there is still hope?
Cees
Asking myself, is there a Country where they did not know the Taurus.
And maybe you onces show us a picture, you will like it yourself.
As you say:"Crashed it and never did pursue another till now."
So there is still hope?
Cees
01-07-2013, 07:40 AM
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RE: Top Flite Taurus or Graunper Kwik Fli
Believe it or not I have 2 Original Ed Kazmirski Taurus that I'm going to be putting up for sale shortly. Also a 70's rare Tiporary that was never completed.
The Taurus's are complete, and ready to fly. My favorite airplanes. Cam someone give me a value on these? The Tiporary has a fiberglass fusealage
and is equiped with retracts with the original fast tracking wheels. Pictures if requested. Offers accepted.
The Taurus's are complete, and ready to fly. My favorite airplanes. Cam someone give me a value on these? The Tiporary has a fiberglass fusealage
and is equiped with retracts with the original fast tracking wheels. Pictures if requested. Offers accepted.