hamishrock

There is an article in Feb 2013 Flying scale models magazine, which feature the RAF RE8.

I have done a search and found plans for a 96 inch span model from
[link=http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16340/rm358raf-re-8]http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/16340/rm358raf-re-8[/link]
but unfortunatley they do not have an electronic version of it, and I would like to have a look and see how difficult it will be before I order the paper version.

I can not find anything about this plan, and I am hoping that there is some electronic versions out there.

Can any body provide me details of this or any other plans for the RE8

TFF

Dont know the plan, but putting an electric on it will be just like putting one on any other model. If you buy the plans, share what you think about them.

hamishrock

If I build it my intention would be to have a OS120 in it, it was an electrinic version of the plan I am hoping for. Probably wait a few days see if anybody has one and if not order it.

LesUyeda

"If I build it my intention would be to have a OS120 in it, it was an electrinic version of the plan I am hoping for. "

Examine carefully. The electric version will be built MUCH more lightly than required for internal combustion, even down to the fail feathers.

Les

kdc

Obviously the previous correspndent did not read what you wrote!

The plan was in Radio Modeller May 1989 and further details in June 89. There are copies of these mags for sale in England for 2. 50 pounds ( May ) and 4 pounds (June) if you need them.
However the designer says " This is an ambitious project by any standards......I would be sorry to see too many people biting off more than they can chew......"
So I would read that as very experienced builders only and it's a lot of work! Also he says used a geared Webra 61 two stroke and then re-egined with an Enya 90 four stroke and there is no mention of a 120.

MerlinV

Was this a Dave Hurrell Design?

His 1/6 scale BE2c uses a .70 laser.

Cheers,

Hugh

kdc

No not Dave Hurrell

The RE8 "Harry Tate" ( rhyming slang for eight ) is by Martin Fardell

hamishrock

It’s been a while since I started this thread, and I have made some progress.
To start with I read the articles in the Radio Modeler, and although it said not for a beginner, it did not look too much of a stretch.

So I ordered the plans and expected the 3 big sheets of plans. What arrived was 9 big sheets of plans. On examination, I found that the set of 3 had all been split up into 2 sheets each, creating a 2nd full set of 6 plans. (Yes it confused me for a while as well.)





On commencing the fuselage I built one side then placed the wing section which was created separately onto the side , to find that the part didn't fit. It turns out that the 2nd set of 6 plans are a slightly larger scale, and so I decided to strip the first side and build to the smaller (correct at 96 " span) plans.

Having then built the sides I thought about the wings and asked Bellair for help in cutting the 54 ribs. This turned out to be a none starter as they insisted on me sending all the plans too them and then a charge reading the plans into the cutter. All a bit odd but in the end I have cut the ribs myself, in the usual way of cutting all the ply ribs and then sandwiching the balsa ribs and sanding. There are around 55 balsa ribs to cut and 9 ply ribs.


The tail was the next to be built and I now believe this would have been simpler to do by building the elevator and tail plane as 1 piece and splitting after wards, as gluing the riblets to the 1/16 core and getting them in line was tricky.

I am now at a point where I need to decide on the engine. My initial idea of an OS 120 has been tempered a little as the original by Martin Fardell, had a geared 60 2 stroke and he advises an enya 90. Also an Enya 90 from 1990 is probably a less powerful than today’s 90 FS.

My thoughts at the moment are I should put a Pumped OS FS110 into it as the tank is a little way away from the engine and the engine is inverted. This and because it is a drag’y biplane and it looks like a 110 would be correct. However the os 96 is also a good option, but I do like to have power in reserve.

Any thoughts on the engine would be welcome.

The bits I have made so far are all below.

abufletcher

Harry Tate was also a popular British vaudeville entertainer of the time and when pronounced with a Cockney accent would have been "arry tate" which sounded similar to a British pronunciation of R - E - 8.

Hamish, your model is coming along nicely!

wphilb

My Feedback: (10)

I would go with the larger engine, assuming the fit is OK and you are not contemplating hiding the smaller one better than the larger one. Odds are you will need weight forward, might as well have it be usable weight?

LesUyeda

"Build some more lightness into the tail feathers too!"

That was my first thought, also.

Les

kdc

Abufletcher, I dont think you quite understand what rhyming slang is! A Londoner who was uneducated would possibly drop his 'H' when pronouncing Harry but " arry Tate" does not sound like RE8 when pronounced by any Englishman! (We English laugh hysterically when we hear Dick van Dyke etc try to imitate a Cockney accent. )
Cockney rhyming slang is not the Cockney accent but a language made up of rhyming words.....for example it is common to say " I am just going up the apples & pears to see me trouble & strife " ( going upstairs to see my wife ) etc It is rather stupid but just as cultural as speaking Welsh, it's just that we dont waste public money teaching Cockney or putting up roadsigns in rhyming slang!

I would be interested to know what MyHobbyStores said about the wrong scale of that plan.

hamishrock

Update to the build.
I now have all 4 wing halves built, and I have modified some of the parts.


The plans/article calls for the curves on the wingtip and the tailplane to be built using laminated 1/64 ply. Whilst I have no doubt that this is stronger than the way I have built mine. I don’t like it as it reminds me of the hours I spent a couple of years ago sanding down wing spars for an annular monoplane.

I decided to reinforce the 1/16 fin/rudder/stabilizer, by sticking 1/16 doublers top and bottom to the edges of the parts. This then allows the final shape to be easily sanded down to shape, and the extra bits which look untidy when finished will be hidden by the covering.


The wing tips I did similarly by adding a 1/16 wing tip down the centre line of the Rib, and reinforcing the edges with 1/16 top and bottom. In this case I believe this will be stronger than a single laminated tip “tube� as shown on the plans.

Another diversion from the plan was that I added the centre spar to the top wing. The plans do not show this, but after feeling the flexibility of the lower wings which I built first, and having already cut the slots in the ribs, I believe this is a bit of weight well spent.

One comment in the article of the build states there are no riblets, and the plan shows them between each wing spar and indeed on the tailplane. I have fitted them as they do seem necessary and will be visible under the covering.

The aileron hinge section of the wing calls for the trailing edge to be closed with scrap balsa, where it is not reinforced for the hinges. In this case I have closed them with scrap 1/16 with 2 small bits of 16 acting as pillars to prevent them “falling� in whilst the glue sets.



The engine has arrived and I decided on the OS FS110 Pumped, as this is going to fit better inside the cowl. A surprise here is that the manual suggests up to a 16x8 prop, which is bigger than the manual suggests for an OS FS 120 Pumped which I have in a Spitfire. All the props which are advised are of a large pitch.
I would love to hear from anybody who has this engine and the props which are used.

hamishrock

Latest update

The fuselage has been coming along, with the firewall drilled and fitted out before the front part of the fuselage was completed.

The gunners decking was tricky and involved smaller pieces of balsa being glued onto the sides to fill up to the desired curves, and would have been easier if the sides had been built up of 1/2 balsa from the rails rather than the inside as the plans suggest.

The tail plane is designed to be fitted after covering and is joined together by 16 gauge wire being in-between the tail plane spars, which are staggered top and bottom for joining. The strength of the join will be supported by the rigging wires.

ARUP

It's sure nice to see two holers get their due! Keep up the great work! Get a Datafiles for it. You won't be sorry!

Nieuport nut

My Feedback: (10)

Looks great! I hadn't realized that the nose is pinched in like that.
The neat thing about 2-seaters is that you can build a large plane but still have reasonable weights and engines.

Martin

hamishrock

Update

I have made some progress over the summer, but not as much as I would have liked, as flying and the odd repair has taken some time. I have managed to get the windsock magazine.



I have spent a lot of time staring at the plans wondering how it is going to fit together. I finally decided that all 4 cabane struts will bolt into place with some 2 mm bolts made into the struts and bolted into the longerons. This is rather than soldering in them in once it is covered, which to me looked not possible, especially as I will be covering in solartex.

The engine is mounted and is a pumped os110 mounted onto an os mount. I like the mounts that OS produce as they fit perfectly, rather than being just off when I drill the usual type.

The rigging is ordered and I am to use trace cable rather than flying wires, and have 4 turnbuckles each side to hold the wings onto the centre sections.

I have also fitted two servos into the bottom wing rather than the a single in the fuz as per plan. I felt that having to set the linkage up each time would be difficult, as well as producing all the wire guides, which would be off scale anyway.

The top engine cowl has proved a challenge, but I finally found the correct size beer can, and made it from a single sheet of a 4 pinter. This is going over a balsa frame which will be cut away after fitting. I have this still to complete.



Other progress is that I have made two guns, a lewis and the vickers as per the plan out of dowel and balsa. I have also decided on the pilots, from AH design, the gunner has arrived, but the pilot is still being trained.
The engine is also well on its way with two finned front cylinders and another 10 plane ones. The pushrods and exhaust are still to be fabricated.

Progress should increase now that flying is off the agenda at least for the week days.

ARUP

Your 'Harry Tate' looks great!

fewrtw

is there any progress with this build as I am thinking of building this.
on your model have you used spruce or balsa for the rear fuselage?

hamishrock

The build is still progressing and everything is covered in Solartex and the roundels and markings have been added.

I got stuck on fitting the cabane struts, but finally settled for 3mm bolts glued into the ends of some spruce and then covered in balsa and sanded to shape.
The rails where then strengthened and drilled so that they can be bolted into place.

The elevator control also gave me a head ache and is now 2 bars with a joining piece in the middle and the elevator arms bolted onto the ends, with the servo to rod being a brass horn silver soldered into place.

I have 99% of the rigging in place, but have used trace wire rather than flying wires, and these are tightened by turnbuckles. These turnbukles are a bit on the large side, being the largest Brass type and I may yet change them to the aluminum variety available from DB models.

The ailerons are in place, but not as per plan, instead I have a servo in both ends of the bottom wings and the wire is pushed into the wing when assembling and two small covers fill the wing.

To answer your question on the fuselage, I used 5/16 square balsa for the longerons and 1/4 square for the uprights set back as described on the plan.

fewrtw

It seems to be coming along nicely are you going to post more photos.

I have been studying the plans and looking to see if I could change the way
some the rigging attachments could be done. I have decided to go with the Mick
Reeves fork ends.

I have also been looking at this web site http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/re8-reproduction/vintage-aviator-re8
for that little extra detail I’m thinking of adding .

hamishrock

Time for a few pics as I wait for some more balsa and more rigging parts to arrive.

The balsa is to finish off the exhaust stacks on the dummy engine The rigging is to replace 4 small turnbuckles with 4 medium ones.










I have made the rigging wires of 50lb wire rather than flying wires, and turnbuckles at one end to tighten them on the field. This is the same principle which I used on a quarter scale Sopwith Triplane a few years ago.

These are the small turnbuckles which I am going to replace with medium ones.




The King Posts on the top wing


The bolts holding these go all the way through the wing to hold the fuz to top wing wire, on the underside of the top wing.



The tail skid made to look like the plan drawing but the damper is solid balsa.

The whole "triangle" was made with the join inside the damper, and then around an inch cut off and a bit of tube soldered onto one end to allow the other end to slide into the tube, and so getting some spring on the skid.

hamishrock

The RAF RE8 flew for the first time July 20 th 2014.

I had read the article a few times but had decided that with ailerons which are the size and movement that the RE* has that I had no need to program CAR into the transmitter. Well that was wrong she didn't fly at all well on just ailerons.

So how did the first flight start.
A couple of runs of the OS110FS pumped to ensure smooth running and onto the runway she taxied. A final test of the controls, Left makes the ailerons move up and down as required elevator goes up and down accordingly, and rudder has as much movement as possible.
So full throttle and after 2 yards she lifted off.

At this point it did not feel nice, but I let her keep climbing slowly whilst trying to maintain a straight path. Next we had to have a turn, so applied the left aileron and not a lot happened, put some rudder in as well and she fell left. Quickly catching the down ward pitch, I then let her climb again for a while and attempted a right turn. Again ailerons where as good as useless, so in with the rudder, She did around half a turn right before falling left.

At this point I decided to throttle back, and hey presto more control of the plane was achieved.
So the comment here is that the OS110 is an excellent choice but don’t run it at full throttle, and probably a 90 would be a better choice, and add a bit more lead. (I did have to add some lead to the front to achieve the correct C Of G.)

After a few more turns, surprisingly 10 mins had passed and I decided to attempt a landing. Now I have a few WW1 tripes and bipes and all of them tend to do what they want after they run on to their wheels, so I was expecting the same from the RE8 plus it wasnt handling well anyway.
Well she surprised me here as well, she touched down perfectly, with full control over the landing taxi, without any tendency to nose over.

So time for a sit down and a think about the flight.

First thing was to add the CAR,
Next reduce the travel of the elevator and add -10% exponential. (she already had some differential)

Fueled up and this time taxied and lifted off at half throttle, which was much better. Left turns are now achieved ok, but the right turns are still a bit strange, with a tendency to get around the turn about 45 degrees and then for it to stall left. Applying down during the turn seems to help and achieve a full turn.
The landing was again easy with no problems.

The third flight was much the same, but unfortunately on landing from the opposite end of the runway as the wind had swung around, I miss judged the forward speed and stalled her onto her wheels, over stretching the elastic bands which allowing the UC legs to dig in and she nosed over. No damage probably as she had stalled squarley onto both wheels except to the undercarriage legs.

The UC has now been repaired and some wire added to hopefullystop this happening again. However I may remake these and silver solder a loop between the side legs to stop this happening.

Only other thing to report is that the tail skid was not successful and this is now a complete triangle with no spring, but still steerable.

Thanks to Alan Clarke for the following pics.

buzzard bait

Congratulations, what a beautiful, charismatic airplane! Must a wonderful sight in the air.

Here's a theory for you...In a right turn the aileron in the left wing goes down, and so the angle of incidence is higher, plus the dihedral is also making it higher. So as the plane makes the right turn and slows down from the control inputs, it reaches a point where the left wing stalls, and then the plane falls off to the left. The fact that the problem is alleviated by using some down in the turn tends to confirm the theory. The Wrights first encountered this problem on the Huffman prairie in 1905 and came up with the same solution you did...put the nose down and pick up a bit of speed.

I'm not sure why it is a problem turning right but not left. I can only guess that the torque is helping the plane around to the left and fighting it to the right, so you're using more control input turning right.

I would try uncoupling rudder and aileron and try using more rudder and less (or no) aileron for right hand turns. Or maybe you can set it up with aileron differential so the left aileron isn't going down so much.

Well, that's my theory, for what, if anything, it may be worth.

It is a lovely plane and I wish I could see it in the air! Thanks for posting your project.

Jim

hamishrock

HI Jim

Your theory has proved to be correct.

Yesterday was a nice 5mph day and I had the time to try the settings you have suggested.
The starting point I had set for the first flight was differential on both sides to 100% up and 60% down.

The first thing I tried was reducing the port aileron downwards movement from 60% to 38%. ( I had intended this to be 30% but checking when I got home I had mis read it)
This improved significantly the right turn. For the second flight I also changed the starboard aileron to 50% down and again this has improved the overhaul handling.

Thanks for your words

Paul