RC Surfer
01-19-2013, 02:31 AM
#6251
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RE: RC Surfer
YPC
One of the interesting things I learned the hard way..... back in the day is that when working with u-join type componets is that they are best set up NOT perfectly in line.
For a u-joint to work properly, there needs to be at least some dynamic tension so as to not have the joint "float" when in "neutral". Even one degree with make this important difference.
Keep on sharing your craftsmenship........ I steal shared craftsmanship ideas and tell everyone it was my idea..... Just Say'in
By the Way............ I nailed a pelican today.......... hard. He lived but now flies only in tight circles.
InDaTube
Photo of real nasty wipeout....
One of the interesting things I learned the hard way..... back in the day is that when working with u-join type componets is that they are best set up NOT perfectly in line.
For a u-joint to work properly, there needs to be at least some dynamic tension so as to not have the joint "float" when in "neutral". Even one degree with make this important difference.
Keep on sharing your craftsmenship........ I steal shared craftsmanship ideas and tell everyone it was my idea..... Just Say'in
By the Way............ I nailed a pelican today.......... hard. He lived but now flies only in tight circles.
InDaTube
Photo of real nasty wipeout....
01-19-2013, 03:14 AM
#6252
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RE: RC Surfer
Hey Indatube.......looks like you are having great fun.....GREAT WAVES !...I'll keep an eye out for a pelican flying in tight tcircles........LOL
We all learn from 'one another' on this awesome forum........I'll keep that valuable point in mind....I can shim the motor on the mount if needs to be off-set.
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
We all learn from 'one another' on this awesome forum........I'll keep that valuable point in mind....I can shim the motor on the mount if needs to be off-set.
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
01-19-2013, 04:32 AM
#6253
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RE: RC Surfer
YPC and Indatube
That point about uni joints is real.... spent most of my life as a motor mechaniceven at tech college it was often stated.... I have no practical examplesof strait versus tited to give comparo's onbuthave alwaysnoticed anything running a uni joint has the shaft centre lines intersecting perfect but always with some degree of tilt.
This point did mainly relate to solid roller bearing type uni's buttesting straight and tilted on you're rubber one for a 'real time' experiment might be interesting.
bearcave
That point about uni joints is real.... spent most of my life as a motor mechaniceven at tech college it was often stated.... I have no practical examplesof strait versus tited to give comparo's onbuthave alwaysnoticed anything running a uni joint has the shaft centre lines intersecting perfect but always with some degree of tilt.
This point did mainly relate to solid roller bearing type uni's buttesting straight and tilted on you're rubber one for a 'real time' experiment might be interesting.
bearcave
01-19-2013, 07:34 AM
#6254
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RE: RC Surfer
Hey Guys....... interesting info........the coupling I am using is not as much a 'universal' coupling... it wont work at much of an angle at all)...rather more of a 'inline' coupling ( dampener) to accommodate the slightest of drive shaft offset and vibration caused by the resonance that occurs in the drive shaft and from the prop.
This coupler CANNOT be used with a 'flex shaft' as the stuffing tube needs to be BUSHED on both ends to support the drive shaft
The only experiences I have had with much the same style of coupling, was on my Yamaha stand up Jet Ski's which were set up relatively true to the motor and drive shaft drive lines.
....looking back at some of the thoughts and suggestions shared in a recent conversation about 'considering the wear on bearing and shims within the motor - this coupler does a lot to overcome most of it. Set up properly, there will be NO forward NOR aft pressure placed on the bearings from the drive shaft thrust - their will also be no offset pressure, which can even come from a flex shaft set up........
Any direct impact to the prop (in the case of a metal prop) will be initially absorbed into the rubber dampener, perhaps saving the motor shaft in the smaller motors
3.2mm)
What I like as well as a side note - the unit is 16mm in diameter - so their is quite a bit of wall depth for the grub screws. I have 5mm deep 4M grub screws either side to secure the shaft and they have full depth thread. Far less chance of stripping.
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
This coupler CANNOT be used with a 'flex shaft' as the stuffing tube needs to be BUSHED on both ends to support the drive shaft
The only experiences I have had with much the same style of coupling, was on my Yamaha stand up Jet Ski's which were set up relatively true to the motor and drive shaft drive lines.
....looking back at some of the thoughts and suggestions shared in a recent conversation about 'considering the wear on bearing and shims within the motor - this coupler does a lot to overcome most of it. Set up properly, there will be NO forward NOR aft pressure placed on the bearings from the drive shaft thrust - their will also be no offset pressure, which can even come from a flex shaft set up........
Any direct impact to the prop (in the case of a metal prop) will be initially absorbed into the rubber dampener, perhaps saving the motor shaft in the smaller motors
3.2mm)
What I like as well as a side note - the unit is 16mm in diameter - so their is quite a bit of wall depth for the grub screws. I have 5mm deep 4M grub screws either side to secure the shaft and they have full depth thread. Far less chance of stripping.
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
01-19-2013, 06:13 PM
#6255
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RE: RC Surfer
YPC
I have been thru motor changes (Feiago) was one. You Never Know.
My point is, The Compartment appears tight. If someone wants a board from you that
they will fit their own elecs, there has to be some space to allow different sized motors.
Looking at a recent pic, The Cooling line off the motor looks cramped from the servo ?
For the shaft set up, the 3.2 mm motor shaft is real weak, even with perfect alignment they have been proven to snap off
under a bit of load. A long 3.2 mm Drive shaft sounds problematic as swell. I tested Uni Joints years ago, and they didn't offer the results I was looking for.
But The R & D Is The Fun Part ...
I have been thru motor changes (Feiago) was one. You Never Know.
My point is, The Compartment appears tight. If someone wants a board from you that
they will fit their own elecs, there has to be some space to allow different sized motors.
Looking at a recent pic, The Cooling line off the motor looks cramped from the servo ?
For the shaft set up, the 3.2 mm motor shaft is real weak, even with perfect alignment they have been proven to snap off
under a bit of load. A long 3.2 mm Drive shaft sounds problematic as swell. I tested Uni Joints years ago, and they didn't offer the results I was looking for.
But The R & D Is The Fun Part ...
01-19-2013, 08:11 PM
#6256
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RE: RC Surfer
Well, I finallly got my new Lisa. I knew I was in trouble when I opened the box and her arm fell off. When I got all the parts out the feet came apart from the board. Of course I was heading out to Hawaii the next day. I glued everything together and tried to make it water tight. I guess the model was made about ten years ago and the epoxy lost it. I tried it out in the tub and things worked fine. Still leaked a ton. The next morning I tried it out again. Nothing worked. Checked controller batteries (figured they were old), then the surfer battery (also wouldn't hold a charge) and still nothing. Tore the surfer down to find the esc/receiver box was completely wet. The hot glue where the wires came in had a huge hole that allowed the circuit board to get wet. Shiii...
I ended up running to the shop to get a new waterproof ESC and waterproof servo. I wanted to go brushless, but didn't want to dump tons more money on it yet. I had a tough time getting the servo installed and set in the right position. I used an old receiver and remote from a car I had. I waterproofed the receiver. Everything seemed to be working great. Spent way too much time on all that, since I should have been packing, but got it done for the trip.
The doll arrived after the flight all beat up. The other arm and now the head was off the body. Oh well. When I finally get a chance to try it in the water, thing go to pot again. It gets worked in the shorebreak and doesn't seem to turn well. I checked everything on the beach and got the steering setup again. Try it out in the water again and this time the prop falls off. Shiii..
I had the spare prop at home and so I grab some superglue and a nut at the store and fix it up. Meantime my wife is pissed I am spending our vacation time doing this. So I chill and wait until the sun is down to try it out again. This time the motor keeps going and won't shut down. I ditch my shirt and remote on the beach and swim down the surfer. Shiii...
I get it back to the condo to see what is going on. I decide the batteries in the remote must be dead. When I get about five feet away from the board it loses connection and goes haywire. I go grab some $10 worth of double A's (Got to love Hawaiian prices) and replace them. Same thing happens. Finally gave up on the thing. I think the receiver must be shot.
Now that I am back home in 20 degree weather I want to fix it up right. Is there a sticky somewhere with the best way to mod this? I will just use the new ESC and try and install a better motor that I have. What do I need to get a 550 Titan attached to the drive shaft? The other question is what size props fit and if there is a better rudder system? What size motor if I want to go brushless? Any replacement dolls?
I have read through a bunch of this thread. A sticky would be nice, seeing how most of the comments are banter and such. Almost 300 pages is a very long thread. Maybe a list like this:
Waterproofing needs, seals etc.
Motor size/kv
ESC
Prop size
Drive shaft
Steering/rudder
Anything else I missed?
Thanks
I ended up running to the shop to get a new waterproof ESC and waterproof servo. I wanted to go brushless, but didn't want to dump tons more money on it yet. I had a tough time getting the servo installed and set in the right position. I used an old receiver and remote from a car I had. I waterproofed the receiver. Everything seemed to be working great. Spent way too much time on all that, since I should have been packing, but got it done for the trip.
The doll arrived after the flight all beat up. The other arm and now the head was off the body. Oh well. When I finally get a chance to try it in the water, thing go to pot again. It gets worked in the shorebreak and doesn't seem to turn well. I checked everything on the beach and got the steering setup again. Try it out in the water again and this time the prop falls off. Shiii..
I had the spare prop at home and so I grab some superglue and a nut at the store and fix it up. Meantime my wife is pissed I am spending our vacation time doing this. So I chill and wait until the sun is down to try it out again. This time the motor keeps going and won't shut down. I ditch my shirt and remote on the beach and swim down the surfer. Shiii...
I get it back to the condo to see what is going on. I decide the batteries in the remote must be dead. When I get about five feet away from the board it loses connection and goes haywire. I go grab some $10 worth of double A's (Got to love Hawaiian prices) and replace them. Same thing happens. Finally gave up on the thing. I think the receiver must be shot.
Now that I am back home in 20 degree weather I want to fix it up right. Is there a sticky somewhere with the best way to mod this? I will just use the new ESC and try and install a better motor that I have. What do I need to get a 550 Titan attached to the drive shaft? The other question is what size props fit and if there is a better rudder system? What size motor if I want to go brushless? Any replacement dolls?
I have read through a bunch of this thread. A sticky would be nice, seeing how most of the comments are banter and such. Almost 300 pages is a very long thread. Maybe a list like this:
Waterproofing needs, seals etc.
Motor size/kv
ESC
Prop size
Drive shaft
Steering/rudder
Anything else I missed?
Thanks
01-19-2013, 09:53 PM
#6257
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RE: RC Surfer
YPC
All sounds good ilike those couplings rekon will work well in your setup
dirkydiggler
Haha man one of the funiest stories i've heard regarding lisa.... i think you covered everything you need to fix up too lol
They are a basket case standard need to be stripped out sealed properly then start again... getting a better lisa is a challenge too although the kyosho dude works ok if you reinforce him, pretty hard to get now pretty expensive too.
Get yourself a 'radio waves' dvd.... main focus on the kyo foam type boards and the electrics is outdated but lots of relevent stuff and the surfing is good might even make you're wife happier knowing there is a reason for it all.
I think there is a search section within rcu you could try for different topics but yeh its way hard to find relevent info quick on this forum.
If it helpswith your quest,my NQD i has a 2200kv (2200rpm per volt) jacket type watercooled brushless motor with a 90amp watercooled esc. Using the std shaft and prop it goes ok with 7.2v much faster with a 3s lipo batt 11.1v which for me is okup to3-4ft waves.
There is nothing set in stone with this hobby and nothing readily available to suit regarding couplings, rudders, dude's, etc etc etc and its very time consuming modfying things towork especially with waterproofing everything.... but because of that not everyonehas anrc surfer.... those that doenjoy uncrowded waves..
Maybebuy a ready to go real one as an expensive but most of the hard work done proposition rather than rebuild lisa....
All thebest great lisa story been there lol....bearcave
All sounds good ilike those couplings rekon will work well in your setup
dirkydiggler
Haha man one of the funiest stories i've heard regarding lisa.... i think you covered everything you need to fix up too lol
They are a basket case standard need to be stripped out sealed properly then start again... getting a better lisa is a challenge too although the kyosho dude works ok if you reinforce him, pretty hard to get now pretty expensive too.
Get yourself a 'radio waves' dvd.... main focus on the kyo foam type boards and the electrics is outdated but lots of relevent stuff and the surfing is good might even make you're wife happier knowing there is a reason for it all.
I think there is a search section within rcu you could try for different topics but yeh its way hard to find relevent info quick on this forum.
If it helpswith your quest,my NQD i has a 2200kv (2200rpm per volt) jacket type watercooled brushless motor with a 90amp watercooled esc. Using the std shaft and prop it goes ok with 7.2v much faster with a 3s lipo batt 11.1v which for me is okup to3-4ft waves.
There is nothing set in stone with this hobby and nothing readily available to suit regarding couplings, rudders, dude's, etc etc etc and its very time consuming modfying things towork especially with waterproofing everything.... but because of that not everyonehas anrc surfer.... those that doenjoy uncrowded waves..
Maybebuy a ready to go real one as an expensive but most of the hard work done proposition rather than rebuild lisa....
All thebest great lisa story been there lol....bearcave
01-19-2013, 10:18 PM
#6258
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RE: RC Surfer
Hey kite i visited San Diego for a few days early 90's while travelling USA.... all i wanted to do was get to that carpark near the airport to see aeroplane wheels lol.
One of the nicest places contemplated staying..... If Ihad found Mission Bay park and Paradise Point back then I may have.. All good... bearcave
One of the nicest places contemplated staying..... If Ihad found Mission Bay park and Paradise Point back then I may have.. All good... bearcave
01-19-2013, 10:56 PM
#6259
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RE: RC Surfer
Hey Curls............?
This board is 'custom built' for myself, always maximizing the set up for best performance- its not a ONE SIZE FITS ALL set up -I doubt however the 3650 series motor will ever be 'out of supply' - if ever in my lifetime, the mount plate could quite easily be moved.
Remember ! all my boards are CUSTOM built - not cookie cutters.
When someone orders a board and has not decided on their size of motor, I could supply the mount plate lose for them to simply epoxy in place.
With regards to the cooling line outlet - the water cooling outlet would only need to be rotated a few degrees....did you know they can rotate.....(that motor is from another board)
I have only run the 3.2mm shaft motors and smaller, to date - with NO ISSUES - I reckon there must be MILLIONS racing around the world - if one has snapped is must have been user error.
I have also only run a solid 3.2mm shaft IN ALL MY BOARDS, as you have seen in all the pics, with absolutely no issues at all. I have seen high speed racing hydro's using solid 'very long' 3.2mm shafts 'un-sleeved' with great success......
The R&D of the above HAS ALL BEEN - DONE - TRIED - TESTED.........at least a full years worth of testing throughout 2012 .
The coupler, as I mentioned earlier - is a inline dampener - not a universal joint - although, once again......there are millions of universal joints been used all around the world with great success..............hey ! it wont make your board go faster if that was what you were looking for...........LOL
Whilst we are on the subject of R&D........?...........I would 'really' love to see some of your boards R&D in the surf etc etc........even just a picture of one 'you have actually surfed' would be a good start.......
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
This board is 'custom built' for myself, always maximizing the set up for best performance- its not a ONE SIZE FITS ALL set up -I doubt however the 3650 series motor will ever be 'out of supply' - if ever in my lifetime, the mount plate could quite easily be moved.
Remember ! all my boards are CUSTOM built - not cookie cutters.
When someone orders a board and has not decided on their size of motor, I could supply the mount plate lose for them to simply epoxy in place.
With regards to the cooling line outlet - the water cooling outlet would only need to be rotated a few degrees....did you know they can rotate.....(that motor is from another board)
I have only run the 3.2mm shaft motors and smaller, to date - with NO ISSUES - I reckon there must be MILLIONS racing around the world - if one has snapped is must have been user error.
I have also only run a solid 3.2mm shaft IN ALL MY BOARDS, as you have seen in all the pics, with absolutely no issues at all. I have seen high speed racing hydro's using solid 'very long' 3.2mm shafts 'un-sleeved' with great success......
The R&D of the above HAS ALL BEEN - DONE - TRIED - TESTED.........at least a full years worth of testing throughout 2012 .
The coupler, as I mentioned earlier - is a inline dampener - not a universal joint - although, once again......there are millions of universal joints been used all around the world with great success..............hey ! it wont make your board go faster if that was what you were looking for...........LOL
Whilst we are on the subject of R&D........?...........I would 'really' love to see some of your boards R&D in the surf etc etc........even just a picture of one 'you have actually surfed' would be a good start.......
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
01-20-2013, 08:35 AM
#6260
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RE: RC Surfer
dirkydiggler
[/b]
thats a great story,, most of us have been there, we all got started with lisa s or if you are lucky a kyosho, dont give up, it can be lots of fun,,dirkydiggler next time come to
maui and we will make that thing sing
maui john
[/b]
[/b]
thats a great story,, most of us have been there, we all got started with lisa s or if you are lucky a kyosho, dont give up, it can be lots of fun,,dirkydiggler next time come to
maui and we will make that thing sing
maui john
[/b]
01-20-2013, 01:35 PM
#6262
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RE: RC Surfer
Did you get a sticker for every motor you purchased ! Jokes aside Curls..........I would really love to see your board in action...........
We were discussing the actual manufacturing process you seemed to have used to produce your board and came up with one or two design/set up questions ........
-From what I can gather looking at the various pics you have posted so far, it seems to me that the entire board is CNC'd all in one, including the pod as well as the hollowed out housing with its layout detail.
If so... that would then mean that their is effectively foam remaining within the core of the hull and pod, both beneath the motor and battery area once the board is completely glassed.
Question -where would you place any needed weight (lead) within the board for preferred set up and balance - depending on the motor and battery combo one chose to use ?
I would guess that the overall weight of such a board RTS, only being around 1500grams (3 lbs) without any extra added weight. You have mentioned that you made the board some what thicker wit a deeper housing than the original Kyhoso - which would intern make it 'more buoyant' , hence then, understandably needing it to actually be 'heavier' than the 2000g (4plbs) most guys run there Kyhoso's and the like at, to ensure self righting and reasonable displacement when surfing a wave......were would you pack the extra weight ?
-What method do you use to mount the 'motor mount' onto the hull surface 'securely ?
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
We were discussing the actual manufacturing process you seemed to have used to produce your board and came up with one or two design/set up questions ........
-From what I can gather looking at the various pics you have posted so far, it seems to me that the entire board is CNC'd all in one, including the pod as well as the hollowed out housing with its layout detail.
If so... that would then mean that their is effectively foam remaining within the core of the hull and pod, both beneath the motor and battery area once the board is completely glassed.
Question -where would you place any needed weight (lead) within the board for preferred set up and balance - depending on the motor and battery combo one chose to use ?
I would guess that the overall weight of such a board RTS, only being around 1500grams (3 lbs) without any extra added weight. You have mentioned that you made the board some what thicker wit a deeper housing than the original Kyhoso - which would intern make it 'more buoyant' , hence then, understandably needing it to actually be 'heavier' than the 2000g (4plbs) most guys run there Kyhoso's and the like at, to ensure self righting and reasonable displacement when surfing a wave......were would you pack the extra weight ?
-What method do you use to mount the 'motor mount' onto the hull surface 'securely ?
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
01-20-2013, 04:16 PM
#6263
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RE: RC Surfer
MJ,
I had a great 5 pack day at T-Street and the Pier. I think I may need to go to "Maui******** Rehab"
I swear that I could hear the San Clemente waves saying "John..... come home and play with us, we miss you"
Here....... listen for yourself........
I had a great 5 pack day at T-Street and the Pier. I think I may need to go to "Maui******** Rehab"
I swear that I could hear the San Clemente waves saying "John..... come home and play with us, we miss you"
Here....... listen for yourself........
01-20-2013, 05:05 PM
#6264
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RE: RC Surfer
Ypc
A Question ? Who Is "We" ...
The stickers did come on every motor. I didn't start collecting them for the first few years.
I had re arranged a work station where I would install the cooling tunnels, I was constantly
removing the stickers, and discarded them on the side of a parts organizer
due to its proximity and convenience. One day, I took a look at the side of the organizer
and was shocked by how many stickers had accumulated. It became a small reminder
of how many boards I modified. Later on, The motor changed to an etched label
so I no longer had to hassle pulling the sticker.
I also want to sea pics and video of the new boards. MJ was gracious to offer me some of his valuable
time when he was here last month to shoot some Quality Video, But I didn't have boards ready to go.
There will be some video / pix, as we are building more boards right now.
The weight of the board is between the NQD and The Kyosho. With The Compartment size
it's simple to add more weight anywhere you want. As you Know, It's harder to remove weight.
That was the premise we built them on.
For The Mount, It's epoxied in.
ORIGINAL: YPC
We were discussing the actual manufacturing process you seemed to have
We were discussing the actual manufacturing process you seemed to have
The stickers did come on every motor. I didn't start collecting them for the first few years.
I had re arranged a work station where I would install the cooling tunnels, I was constantly
removing the stickers, and discarded them on the side of a parts organizer
due to its proximity and convenience. One day, I took a look at the side of the organizer
and was shocked by how many stickers had accumulated. It became a small reminder
of how many boards I modified. Later on, The motor changed to an etched label
so I no longer had to hassle pulling the sticker.
I also want to sea pics and video of the new boards. MJ was gracious to offer me some of his valuable
time when he was here last month to shoot some Quality Video, But I didn't have boards ready to go.
There will be some video / pix, as we are building more boards right now.
The weight of the board is between the NQD and The Kyosho. With The Compartment size
it's simple to add more weight anywhere you want. As you Know, It's harder to remove weight.
That was the premise we built them on.
For The Mount, It's epoxied in.
01-20-2013, 08:53 PM
#6265
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RE: RC Surfer
Oregon Update:
Thought I'd share the local beauty:
The 4-5 ft leftsis the view from my bedroom
The 8-10 ft rights are an hours drive south in Lincoln City.
And yes, I measure waves like a Hawaiian!
Thought I'd share the local beauty:
The 4-5 ft leftsis the view from my bedroom
The 8-10 ft rights are an hours drive south in Lincoln City.
And yes, I measure waves like a Hawaiian!
01-20-2013, 10:23 PM
#6266
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RE: RC Surfer
OK...... I'm going to get myself in trouble here.........
For 50 years I have been hearing that the "Hawaiian Style" way of measuring the back of the wave is the proper method.
That may be true if you are measuring a "Wave Form" on an scope. But IMO it's a macho myth. Maybe started back in the day
when pictures of Greg Noll etc riding what seemed like monster Hawaiian waves were first brought to the attention of the rest of the
World.
Questions:
For 50 years I have been hearing that the "Hawaiian Style" way of measuring the back of the wave is the proper method.
That may be true if you are measuring a "Wave Form" on an scope. But IMO it's a macho myth. Maybe started back in the day
when pictures of Greg Noll etc riding what seemed like monster Hawaiian waves were first brought to the attention of the rest of the
World.
Questions:
- [*]If the back is the true "Height" of a surfing wave.... How do you measure it from the Beach or in a photo?[*]If a 6ft surfer is riding a wave that is about his height....... what size is it? Duh... 6ft.[*]There is a contest that pays big bucks to the surfer who rides the tallest accurately measured wave of the year.[*]They estimate the wave height by measuring the surfer in the photo with calipers/dividers and then calculate the true wave face height.[*]How would you estimate the wave at Teahupoo?[/i][/list]
Personally I prefer "Waist High/Shoulder High/Head High/Head High+/Double Overhead etc" as an everyday discriptive estimate of the surf. If you want to use height in feet...... see above.
Here is one of the best things about RCSurfing........
1ft = Head High / 2ft = Double Overhead / 3ft = Triple Overhead....... etc. lol
Sorry for this post........ I much prefer the tech sharing, stories, photos/videos and creative stuff, but then I opened my big mouth!!!!
InDaTube
01-20-2013, 10:47 PM
#6267
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RE: RC Surfer
A surfer at 6 feet in height that rides a wave head high, will have a six foot wave face
and by any measure, the back of the wave is 1/2 it's face size so it would be a 3 foot wave
measured from the back. Reason being, the face will double in size when it hits a shallow
reef or sand bar in which the wave itself will slow down (dragging on the bottom) enough to throw itself and break .
Some measure waves from the face, some from the back. The math is always the same.
If A surf report states sets at 3 - 4 feet, it means 6 - 8 foot faces.
Nice Pix Billy Bongo, Empty perfection ...
and by any measure, the back of the wave is 1/2 it's face size so it would be a 3 foot wave
measured from the back. Reason being, the face will double in size when it hits a shallow
reef or sand bar in which the wave itself will slow down (dragging on the bottom) enough to throw itself and break .
Some measure waves from the face, some from the back. The math is always the same.
If A surf report states sets at 3 - 4 feet, it means 6 - 8 foot faces.
Nice Pix Billy Bongo, Empty perfection ...
01-20-2013, 10:50 PM
#6268
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RE: RC Surfer
InDaTube,
I understand the frustration of multi-standards, growing up in Hawaii certain practices become common law.
Not meant to sound stuck up, but rather a humbler version of the wave measuring scale.
When the radio surf report and respected old timers call head high waves 3-4 feet, that is what you embrace.
A quick search as to why came up with no clear answers either (Thank you, I never thought to search for this before)
Hawaiian scale is the conventional wave height measurement used by surfers in Hawaii, also used in Australia and parts of South Africa.
The measurement is always in feet and scaled so the actual height on the face is roughly twice what's quoted. So a 3-foot wave would be head high (to a 6-foot person), or 2-foot around chest high. 6 to 8 foot would be 2 to approaching 3 times head high. Large waves are difficult to judge though, and the measurement becomes a little fuzzy towards 20 feet.
The origin of the scale is obscure. The candidates are:
I understand the frustration of multi-standards, growing up in Hawaii certain practices become common law.
Not meant to sound stuck up, but rather a humbler version of the wave measuring scale.
When the radio surf report and respected old timers call head high waves 3-4 feet, that is what you embrace.
A quick search as to why came up with no clear answers either (Thank you, I never thought to search for this before)
Hawaiian scale
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hawaiian scale is the conventional wave height measurement used by surfers in Hawaii, also used in Australia and parts of South Africa.
The measurement is always in feet and scaled so the actual height on the face is roughly twice what's quoted. So a 3-foot wave would be head high (to a 6-foot person), or 2-foot around chest high. 6 to 8 foot would be 2 to approaching 3 times head high. Large waves are difficult to judge though, and the measurement becomes a little fuzzy towards 20 feet.
The origin of the scale is obscure. The candidates are:
- [*]Hawaiian life guards calling smaller sizes to keep tourists away.[/list]
- [*]The measurement is "from the back" of the wave, or from wave buoy readings.[/list]
- [*]Macho understatement by early surfers.[/list]
In Australia, which is otherwise metric, feet are still used by surfers and surf-specific media (e.g. ASL and Tracks magazines). Some of the non-surfing media make an attempt at metrication by direct conversion (e.g.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[1]</sup>), so 3 feet becomes 1 metre. In a sense that satisfies neither surfers who don't use those units, nor non-surfers don't know it means twice that on the face.
[edit] References
- [*]Hawaiian Scale: Measuring Wave Heights in Hawaii by Neal Miyake, 2003"[/list]An old Hawaiian Fisherman, Marcus Rosehill, told me when I was young, that the measuring of waves from the back was a practice of ancient canoe voyagers.
They time spent in the open ocean and approaching the shore was the easist time to understand the size of the swell,
My statement was meant to clarify, not to cause turmoil.
Aloha from Oregon!
01-21-2013, 12:13 AM
#6269
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RE: RC Surfer
To simplify - I would add that if the running SWELL is measured at say 3ft -THEN - when the WAVE climbs up onto a reef or a sand bank it has the potential of being a 6ft face WAVE.
Therefore - WAVE face in generally twice the size of SWELL size. So when we estimate - we should rather say SWELL SIZE IS 3ft or WAVE FACE IS 6ft
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Therefore - WAVE face in generally twice the size of SWELL size. So when we estimate - we should rather say SWELL SIZE IS 3ft or WAVE FACE IS 6ft
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
01-21-2013, 12:53 AM
#6270
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RE: RC Surfer
Ocean swells arise from wind or ground movements and travel far before they reach the shore.... what they do when they get there is variable hence why I think the 'size of the swell' is prob stated like an Hawaiin fisherman or ocean sailor would relate to.
Australia converted to Metric many years back but old time tradesman always use both measurements. Conversion of sizes always been a problem and now that everything is made in metric,like tryto fix and old house built in imperial measurements using current metric sizes available nowhaha best knock it down start again. As a mechanic i've always needed both sizes of spanners and stuff depending if i'm fixin local British or US machines versus European.
Surfing speaking a 2m (actually 183cm) face still means 6ft for most surfers.... Maybe its a thing from when the Duke visited Australia early 60's (?) we still think of Hawaii(and its imperial measurements) as the home of big waves and where it all started.
Great info Billybongo and haha InDaTube..... makin waves and causin trouble is what forums are all about.... YPC and Surfcurls do it all the time....LOL
Btw if they say its 3ft at Teahupooimo they are sayin 9ft face with 6inches between you and the reef.... and does anyone have any info on the latest happenings at Mavericks?
01-21-2013, 01:14 AM
#6271
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RE: RC Surfer
Hey Bearcave......LOL....I'm generally a 6ft 'swell guy' but when I hit a reef (given grief) I'm 12 ft'in your face'.......LOl.......Hey Indatube......its all good fun .....adds to the flavor of the forum.........I love it !
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01-21-2013, 01:25 AM
#6272
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RE: RC Surfer
Maui reporting:
large west turning to north west swells have been the norm here in the +10ft range *bigger outer reefs.
Had to find a good spot due to northerly onshore winds.
John, Jock & Hugh met up for some short sessions Sat & Sunday, small waves close to shore & snapped some photos.
GoPro still needs some tuning as my onboard shots not good enough to share - seems like I need to be higher off the board's deck
Here are some shots taken Sunday
large west turning to north west swells have been the norm here in the +10ft range *bigger outer reefs.
Had to find a good spot due to northerly onshore winds.
John, Jock & Hugh met up for some short sessions Sat & Sunday, small waves close to shore & snapped some photos.
GoPro still needs some tuning as my onboard shots not good enough to share - seems like I need to be higher off the board's deck
Here are some shots taken Sunday
01-21-2013, 02:57 AM
#6273
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RE: RC Surfer
Howzit Hugh........great to see your pics again....!
MJ.......your board looks great .......the color scheme is very striking.....(my young son Jensen, looking over my shoulder "WOW dad - that a cool looking board" -as they say - from the mouth of babes)
Hugh......that board of yours has really stood the test of time......Looks like you had some great fun !
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MJ.......your board looks great .......the color scheme is very striking.....(my young son Jensen, looking over my shoulder "WOW dad - that a cool looking board" -as they say - from the mouth of babes)
Hugh......that board of yours has really stood the test of time......Looks like you had some great fun !
Bro ********. ...
Share the STOKE !
01-21-2013, 02:59 PM
#6274
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RE: RC Surfer
From Surfline......
Surfline forecaster Adam Wright replies:
Wave heights are a little tricky. There are so many different ways to look at the size of the wave. If you took two people and had them look at exactly the same wave they would come up with totally different sizes. It's a matter of perspective (along with some ego) that comes up with the mystical number.
I think this is one of the problems that Surfline had to deal with when it first started. Sean, Chris, and the rest of the boys got on the 976-SURF phone recordings and started spilling out wave heights and people got confused and even angry (they still do sometimes) because they have in there minds a picture of what a 5-foot wave should look like, and it wasn't matching up. So to help sort out the confusion we use a pretty simple conversion...
The logic is pretty simple: We measure the face of the wave (because this should be the only area of the wave that surfers are really interested in) and we apply it to the average surfer, 5'7" to 6'0", as he would be riding slightly crouched along the face of the wave.
It breaks down to something like this:
1' = ankle high
2' = knee high
3' = waist high
3'+ = chest high
4' = shoulder high
5' = head high (remember the slight crouch, no one rides waves standing straight up and down)
6' = overhead
10' = double overhead
15' = triple overhead
Now when we pass out of the 15' range it gets even trickier to estimate wave heights. Most people don't really want to ride waves that big... the guys that do are usually used to using the Hawaiian scale of wave heights (which is generally half the face height) but lately with all the big-wave contests, I have noticed a trend in the big wave surfers to refer to the wave face, (hey a 60' wave sounds a lot bigger than a 30' wave even if in reality they are the same size). Generally Surfline will give both and tell you which one is which.
Surfline forecaster Adam Wright replies:
Wave heights are a little tricky. There are so many different ways to look at the size of the wave. If you took two people and had them look at exactly the same wave they would come up with totally different sizes. It's a matter of perspective (along with some ego) that comes up with the mystical number.
I think this is one of the problems that Surfline had to deal with when it first started. Sean, Chris, and the rest of the boys got on the 976-SURF phone recordings and started spilling out wave heights and people got confused and even angry (they still do sometimes) because they have in there minds a picture of what a 5-foot wave should look like, and it wasn't matching up. So to help sort out the confusion we use a pretty simple conversion...
The logic is pretty simple: We measure the face of the wave (because this should be the only area of the wave that surfers are really interested in) and we apply it to the average surfer, 5'7" to 6'0", as he would be riding slightly crouched along the face of the wave.
It breaks down to something like this:
1' = ankle high
2' = knee high
3' = waist high
3'+ = chest high
4' = shoulder high
5' = head high (remember the slight crouch, no one rides waves standing straight up and down)
6' = overhead
10' = double overhead
15' = triple overhead
Now when we pass out of the 15' range it gets even trickier to estimate wave heights. Most people don't really want to ride waves that big... the guys that do are usually used to using the Hawaiian scale of wave heights (which is generally half the face height) but lately with all the big-wave contests, I have noticed a trend in the big wave surfers to refer to the wave face, (hey a 60' wave sounds a lot bigger than a 30' wave even if in reality they are the same size). Generally Surfline will give both and tell you which one is which.
01-21-2013, 03:19 PM
#6275
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RE: RC Surfer
Sounds like we all agree on this one , thats no fun lol.
All I know is that in real surfing, anything over double over head is Huge
in my book, and I will watch from the beach !
Biggest waves I ever surfed was at cottons at 15 - 20 foot faces.
The drop was easy as that wave only gets hollow on the inside,
But getting caught inside was a beast. The white water was 10 feet tall
And freak sets catch everyone off guard ...
This was my favorite board for that place.
A single fin pintail shaped for me by Bruce Jones Circa 1979
2nd Pic was taken when I surfer Kaisers Back in 1977 (Pre Gopro Days Lol)
I would have edited the facial part calling for the left, It was quite crowded out there.
Back Then, It Seems Like There Was More Respect in the Water. If you called the peak and were dropping in
Others would pull out. That was a long paddle out, especially just after a 5 hour plane ride
but the swell was on. We Checked the Bags at The Hotel, Grabbed our Boards And Surfed it Till Sunset.
3rd Pic Was my 10' Board for The Oceanside long board Contest in 1998.
It was all for fun, Got to hang out with Joel Tudor and family for a BBQ at their house.
I can't nose ride for #@*#.
Last Pic is My Latest board, shaped by Rusty Whitlock (Carlsbad)
All I know is that in real surfing, anything over double over head is Huge
in my book, and I will watch from the beach !
Biggest waves I ever surfed was at cottons at 15 - 20 foot faces.
The drop was easy as that wave only gets hollow on the inside,
But getting caught inside was a beast. The white water was 10 feet tall
And freak sets catch everyone off guard ...
This was my favorite board for that place.
A single fin pintail shaped for me by Bruce Jones Circa 1979
2nd Pic was taken when I surfer Kaisers Back in 1977 (Pre Gopro Days Lol)
I would have edited the facial part calling for the left, It was quite crowded out there.
Back Then, It Seems Like There Was More Respect in the Water. If you called the peak and were dropping in
Others would pull out. That was a long paddle out, especially just after a 5 hour plane ride
but the swell was on. We Checked the Bags at The Hotel, Grabbed our Boards And Surfed it Till Sunset.
3rd Pic Was my 10' Board for The Oceanside long board Contest in 1998.
It was all for fun, Got to hang out with Joel Tudor and family for a BBQ at their house.
I can't nose ride for #@*#.
Last Pic is My Latest board, shaped by Rusty Whitlock (Carlsbad)