Fox 60 Nitro Info
01-23-2013, 07:23 PM
#27
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
A columnist in Model Builder once talked about building a big Custom Cavalier for RC. Said it had better take-off characteristics with a Fox .74, but once off the water, flew better with a Super Tigre .75.
I was once given a Balsa USA Phaeton that had been flying with an OS .46. I couldn't use any of my Fox .45s, the only engine of that size I had without major surgery. The super wide case. So I fitted a Fox BB .40 RC. It would fly the plane after a long take-off run on grass, and I could do single loops with a dive to build speed. Then one day, after listening to Fox doubters (most of our club), I changed from a 10-6 to an 11-4 prop. Dropped the RPM to 11,500. But I now had take-offs in under 100 feet, could do consecutive loops from level flight, and even zoom climbs. Some planes just don't lend themselves to high RPMs if the prop is to small a diameter. Bipes are draggy. And I don't think the original builder ever heard of sandpaper. The plane was over 6 pounds RTF.
I was once given a Balsa USA Phaeton that had been flying with an OS .46. I couldn't use any of my Fox .45s, the only engine of that size I had without major surgery. The super wide case. So I fitted a Fox BB .40 RC. It would fly the plane after a long take-off run on grass, and I could do single loops with a dive to build speed. Then one day, after listening to Fox doubters (most of our club), I changed from a 10-6 to an 11-4 prop. Dropped the RPM to 11,500. But I now had take-offs in under 100 feet, could do consecutive loops from level flight, and even zoom climbs. Some planes just don't lend themselves to high RPMs if the prop is to small a diameter. Bipes are draggy. And I don't think the original builder ever heard of sandpaper. The plane was over 6 pounds RTF.
01-25-2013, 05:18 PM
#29
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
The original MAN 60 shootout was a whole lot more than 10 years ago( I have in hand the more modern test). It was more like 25 years ago ( mid to late 1980's) The Rossi ( yes Rossi 60 was in the test) The Fox in the test was the Eagle III that should have dated the test somewhat. The Tower sixty was not even in production in the mid to late 80's. I know the info is dated, but it was a huge and much argued about topic at the time. Fox wasn't really considered the king of the mighty 60 ( at the time the Pattern 60 was King!) I had to have thick skin to fly my Eagle III at the time. All the guys that tried a Fox Eagle III after the test and were unhappy used synthetics fuels of the day. The one's who followed Duke's directions of the day got very good performance from them. I know some say that Fox( especially older) can live on synthetics, but I have yet to see it in person, only reading about it online. I will never forget the first time I ran mine on all castor oil and low nitro fuel it was a completely different engine. I said to myself at the time don't bad mouth it until you follow Duke's directions. When I did, I became a Fox fan.
Just post your pics here.. there is alot of Fox knowledge on RCU
Just post your pics here.. there is alot of Fox knowledge on RCU
01-25-2013, 07:40 PM
#31
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
I am trying to see if it will work for me or not. I haven't had success before. the OP sent me his pics of his engine.
I looked at the OP's pics and he has a Fox Eagle III .60 engine. But it has a non-Fox carburetor on it. Someone had a adapter made to fit the other brand carb on it.
I do not recognize the carb at this time. it does look familiar but I can't place it. it does appear to have a main needle and low speed needle and what appears to be a mid-range needle too. There is what appears to be a low speed needle inside of the other mid-range needle on the right side, with the main high speed needle on the left.
I looked at the OP's pics and he has a Fox Eagle III .60 engine. But it has a non-Fox carburetor on it. Someone had a adapter made to fit the other brand carb on it.
I do not recognize the carb at this time. it does look familiar but I can't place it. it does appear to have a main needle and low speed needle and what appears to be a mid-range needle too. There is what appears to be a low speed needle inside of the other mid-range needle on the right side, with the main high speed needle on the left.
01-26-2013, 02:50 AM
#32
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
That looks like an old Webra TN ( 2 needle ) carb, but the finish is different or has some oxidation. The spring high speed needle extension is gone. It is a very good carb with excellent manners and smooth transition. If it is from a Blackhead .61 it may be costing a few hundred rpm on the top. I played with different carbs on my Eagle III with a Fox 'D' flange adapter. I found the best power was from the Mk X carb, so it went back on the engine. I just try every carb that will fit every engine I have( same thing goes for mufflers). The Eagle III is a very good engine, I hope you get to enjoy it!
01-26-2013, 04:57 AM
#33
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
Yeah you are correct it is a Webra TN carburetor on the Fox Eagle III engine.
Someone has posted the instructions for the carburetor here in this thread, it is the fourth attachment.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_54...tm.htm#5447564
I had forgotten all about the mid-range adjustment on that particular carb.
The Webra TN carbs that I have do not have that third inside low speed adjustment on them. So I assume Webra quit making them that way over time.
You are correct in that the stock Fox carb usually results in more RPMs out of the engine. But the Webra carb's smaller bore will result in good fuel draw though. So it might be a good combination. But the OP can easily get a Fox carb for the engine, if they so desire it. They still sell the Perry carb adapters for Fox engines too.
The new or current Fox carburetor is a great carb too if one wants to get and use it.
Someone has posted the instructions for the carburetor here in this thread, it is the fourth attachment.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_54...tm.htm#5447564
I had forgotten all about the mid-range adjustment on that particular carb.
The Webra TN carbs that I have do not have that third inside low speed adjustment on them. So I assume Webra quit making them that way over time.
You are correct in that the stock Fox carb usually results in more RPMs out of the engine. But the Webra carb's smaller bore will result in good fuel draw though. So it might be a good combination. But the OP can easily get a Fox carb for the engine, if they so desire it. They still sell the Perry carb adapters for Fox engines too.
The new or current Fox carburetor is a great carb too if one wants to get and use it.
01-26-2013, 07:10 AM
#35
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
You are welcome. I would suggest using low nitromethane content glow fuel. Such as zero nitro glow fuel or 5% nitro glow fuel. The oil in the fuel should be either all castor oil or a blend of castor oil and synthetic oil. Many of these engines tended to have fairly high compression ratios and didn't do well with high nitro content glow fuel. The glow plug is a Fox Long or RC Long glow plug. But other brand Long glow plugs with a medium heat range would work too. Propellers were generally 11x7, 11x7.5, 11x7.75, 11x8, 12x6, 12x7 as the engine liked turning higher RPMs. But after it is run in good it'll turn larger props too.
Usually the folks that had problems with the engines were trying to use 15% to 20% nitro glow fuel.
Usually the folks that had problems with the engines were trying to use 15% to 20% nitro glow fuel.
01-26-2013, 03:08 PM
#36
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
I found an old Fox ad after that MAN 60 Shootout. Duke pushed the fact that the Fox would out turn some of the big name imports from the test on larger props. Another item of note was that the price of the Fox Eagle III just about doubled after that test!
01-27-2013, 08:56 AM
#37
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
I had asked some other people and they came up with this information about that carb.
It is a Webra TN carb from an old Black Head or Silverline 10cc engine. The choke area is a little small for the Fox Eagle III. The high speed needle is missing the spring extension (this is actually a good thing). One thing I notice is that there was a repair to the fuel inlet nipple. These did fall out and the guys would often try to fix them by using 60/40 solder. This does not work well as lead/tin solder does not hold up well to engine vibration. I used 12% silver bearing solder for my repairs. Also there is a risk of solder flowing into the spray bar or fuel nipple causing some blockage ( see that solder blob). The guys should pass a nominal sized drill or reamer into both the fuel nipple and down the spray bar to clear any solder, don't allow the the drill or the reamer to remove the metering jet at the tip of the spray bar (at the end of the spray bay that goes into the carb).
Defaults setting are something I don't understand. But I would set the low speed needle so the tip is just out side the spray bar by about 1/2 mm (0.020 to 0.032 inches). The Webra carb has a rather shallow tapper for the high speed needle so I would start with it backed our about 4 turns from being seated, and start from there.
Defaults setting are something I don't understand. But I would set the low speed needle so the tip is just out side the spray bar by about 1/2 mm (0.020 to 0.032 inches). The Webra carb has a rather shallow tapper for the high speed needle so I would start with it backed our about 4 turns from being seated, and start from there.
01-27-2013, 08:57 AM
#38
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
The OP had emailed me about the engine after he got it to run and was having problems with the high speed adjustment. He normally runs gasoline engines and doesn't deal with glow engines much, if any.
I got the engine running today. The only thing is the high side now. The low side runs fine, just the high side is the problem. I tried to lean it out but it stops. It seems to me that it floods out and alot of smoke and oil. Any ideas? I tried to richen then lean it out.
01-27-2013, 05:04 PM
#40
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
I have been thinking about it. I got to thinking that maybe when the earlier owner soldered the fitting back on that he hadn't chased the holes with a drill or reamer to ensure the solder didn't wick inside. So it might have some solder inside. It also could simply be quite sensitive to adjustments, so you need to try moving in one click at a time and wait a little while for the engine to react and repeat the process again. i have some engines with carbs like that, where they are very sensitive to small needle valve changes.
To get a new Fox carb, you can call Fox on the phone and they'll answer. They tend to be quite slow responding to emails. They also don't update the website all that often either. The new Fox carb works great and is easy to adjust. No tricks or odd behavior it just works.
To get a new Fox carb, you can call Fox on the phone and they'll answer. They tend to be quite slow responding to emails. They also don't update the website all that often either. The new Fox carb works great and is easy to adjust. No tricks or odd behavior it just works.
08-01-2013, 05:15 PM
#43
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
That is a great article, thanks for posting it turbo.gst.
There is another magazine article that came out later, that did show FOX .60 and a Tower .60 that outperformed all the other engines in their tests.
The Fox even had to use 0% or 5% nitromethane glow fuel while the other engines were all using higher nitro content fuel.
There is another magazine article that came out later, that did show FOX .60 and a Tower .60 that outperformed all the other engines in their tests.
The Fox even had to use 0% or 5% nitromethane glow fuel while the other engines were all using higher nitro content fuel.
08-01-2013, 08:09 PM
#44
RE: Fox 60 Nitro Info
I need to apologize as I mis-stated the results of THAT test. It was the Fox and YS that stood out ( I had said Fox and Rossi). I tried to edit, and it won't let me. I really enjoyed finding and reading the article myself.
