ORIGINAL: Dizz

I think some people are missing the point.

The BMFA Achievement Scheme is completely voluntary and forpersonal fulfilment:

There are two grades;<o></o>

(a) The ‘A’ Certificate which may be equated to a<o></o>

‘safe solo' standard of flying.<o></o>

(b) The ‘B’ Certificate which is designed to<o></o>

recognise a more advanced pilot’s increased ability<o></o>

and knowledge and a demonstrated high level of<o></o>

safety.<o></o>

In addition, there are endorsements available to the<o></o>

‘B’ Certificate in various disciplines for thoseflyers<o></o>

who wish to take their personal flying standards and<o></o>

achievements further.

(BMFA Handbook page 53).

The “point� of the Jet C is that it has been introduced inresponse to requests from the membership, in the same way as the Aero and ScaleC certificates – ie they want it. Notall jet flyers are members of the JMA or attend Classic Jet meets.

The schedule has not been “dreamt up�, but has beendeveloped over several years and was adopted in principle at Areas Council 28Jan 12, after which it has been taken on to the state it is in now. Minutes also record that it is accepted thatas experience with the Jet C grows amendments to the schedule will probably be required(as with the A and B certs), but you have to start somewhere.

Currently there are 3 examiner days planned for Elvington (notdown south), Long Marston (in the Middle, not down south either) and Merryfield(still north of where I live). The 3venues have been freely offered for use by the 4 clubs involved with those sites. More dates at other locations will beannounced idc………if your club can offer a day for training please contact <st1lace w:st=''on''>Duncan</st1lace>.

The argument that the test will restrict flying is a redherring and carries very little weight: if a club (or other organisation) wishedto introduce requirements/qualifications to fly it already could through it’sown democratic process, as indeed some do.
I'm not sure what the relevance is, but the information I had last September (IIRC) was 16 Aero C certificates awardedto date. There is no record of how many tests have been attempted.

<o> </o>Pete

ORIGINAL: 3dean

so how does one qualify for the examiners day? do you have to be an examiner of some kind already?

ORIGINAL: jetster81

Dizz, I have read and re read your post and still cannot find a valid reason for implementing this test other than massaging a few egos. Absolutely no mention of anything else.

"amendments to the schedule will probably be required" if you simply must bring this in then at least get it right before implementation, or are you talking about a D certificate now?. Its a straightforward enough task for anyone with a good experience in the field and there are plenty of those posting on this thread.

" the argument that the test will restrict flying is a red herring and carries very little weight: If a club wished to introduce requirements it already could though it's own democratic process.as indeed some do" And if you continually keep giving them sticks will they not wield them?. The B certificate is perfectly adequate as has been proven very well over the years and I see no reason to superceed it, which is what will happen. If there was repeated carnage,death and destruction around the clubs and shows I would be backing this proposal to the hilt but Jet meets are well run,self disciplined events with maximum attention to H&S from what I have experienced. Other than jobs for the boys and ego inflating I truly seee no point in this proposed test.

ORIGINAL: siclick33

I don't know about Long Marston or Merryfield but Elvington is not free to use. Therefore, as BMFA members we are paying for the BMFA to rent this site for the purpose of these examiner days.

Also, Elvington has a limited number of days available for turbine flyers. I haven't flown a jet this year due to work/weather issues and am pretty peeved that the BMFA have rented out my field and they will only let me fly there if I am joining in with the test day. To say this has damaged my opinion of the BMFA is a bit of an understatement. I am also a little disappointed that the JMA are going along with it and haven't told the BMFA to bugger off.

ORIGINAL: Jgwright
Pete

I dont think you are correct here.
My understanding was that the Jet C was proposed by a particular staff member of the BMFA and was not introduced after requests from the membership.

John

ORIGINAL: Dizz

1. Ok. One last go:
"In addition, there are endorsements available to the‘B’ Certificate in various disciplines for those flyerswho wish to take their personal flying standards andachievements further."
The Jet C Achievement scheme certificate has been introduced because it was requested. If you don't want to do it, then the BMFA isn't going to make you………..but there are lots of people who do want to take it.
2. Nothing of the sort. The test has been discussed (at length), trialled and amended to arrive at where it is now. The organisers recognise thatonce the schedule is in use in the real world and test operating experience is gained issues might arise that will result in amendment. It is obviously hoped that amendments will not be required, but to assume/expect to get it 100% right from the start would simply be arrogant and be subject to further criticism. NB changes that were made to Heli “B” manoeuvres and the debate on tweaking of the Slope A and B requirements.<o></o>

3. Oh dear, bit of insecurity there…………the “B” is not being superseded, Clubs already have the sticks available if they wish and why do you think JMA/CJ/RAFMAA (I assume they are what you are referring to) will change?

<o></o>

Pete

<o></o>

<o></o>

I'm sorry you feel like that, but there is one way to fly on the day - offer your services as a student for the examiers to practice on.

ORIGINAL: siclick33

Out of interest, are all of the potential examiners turbine flyers? Is there a possibilty that someone taking the test could be examined by someone who has never flown a turbine before?

ORIGINAL: Thruster

I qualify on all accounts and will be at LM - but would also like to perform the test