john josey

The ideal condition for tightness is when links or arms just fall slowly under their own weight, if you go any more, your getting close to unwanted slop.

Can you remove the 'A' arm from the washout arm and push it onto the ball on the inner swashplate ? I think you'll find it is quite tight and probably causing your problem ?

You have to remember, my furion has probaby 200 flights on it, so the initial tightness is long gone. I have a quick tip for freeing off tight ball links if needed.

rcpilot1982

well i used a ball sizer on them a few times,but did you notice that the way they snap on is not with the larger end or openbing of the A arms facing the ball but the other end?? if i flip them the other way then they wont go on facing the right way???

so maby this is normal at first as far as the stiffness? of the washout arms? and yeah the A arms were and still are a bit stiff but the washout arms if i pull them all the way up to the top or towards the top of the main shaft then they will stay there,if i even make them at 90 degrees they stay there too....

maby this is a break in thing?? again pulling the swash appart and reassembling did smooth it out but it came back and stopping the washout assemblys rotation stopped the vibration???????????????.....( ;

at around half throttle though the head smoothes out but there is still some vibration...the heli wont jump around but its like if you take a dremel rotary tool and spool it full power and sit it on the table you are going to hear some buzzing????

this heli does that.....normal or would this situation be causing it? you think?

john josey

Yeah, that is normal. I would just finish the build and fly it. If it's smooth when in the air the rest will work it's self out.

rcpilot1982

I have an update,

I took the entire top of the rotor head off again,and i also took the servo to swash links off.I grabed the swash plate and started to move it around when i immidietly noticed that it was moving really tight and stiff,having to use a good bit of hand muscle to move it around,not like RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH but pretty darn tight,so i suspected that the center ball was tight.

I then slowly spun up the head and let it run while i manually moved the swshplate by hand,and found that unless i held the swash as level as possible the entire swash plate was grabbing the main shaft and trying to ripp it off the helicopter,and as the main shaft spun the swash plate was wobbling in my hand actually fighting my hand and the swash wanted to rip out of my hand as well

So i then removed the swash from the main shaft,and found that the center swash ball and all bearings in the swash move nice and loose and smooth,so i then checked the A arms ball link sockets witch i have allready sized and they moved loosley but the mounting point did not

The screw that bolts the A arms to the mixer arms has thta shaft in the front of the threads and the back in witch the A arms mount with and pivot on,basically the A arm bolt fit really tight through the hole of the A arm.

So i opend up the hole a bit to the point in witch the A arm moves alot more freely,but where the mixer arms bolts were also kind of jammed up with threadlocker on the pivot point of there bolt

rcpilot1982

i was not able to edit my post after i got stopped from writing once my cursor dissapeard so please read my reply above this one as this is a continuation from that.

so what is happening is that my mixer arms were moving kind of stiff after finding locktite on the bolt that holds them in as well as there pivot point,so i cleaned this off and reinstalled the mixer arms and now thye move very very free flopping up and down under there own weight.

As i mentioned the mounting point of the A arms were very tight,and although i sized the ball sockets on the A arms,the pivot point i did not think of,so as mentioned ith the swash on the main shaft and it spinning,the swash itself was grabbing the main shaft and wobbling evan trying to pull out of my hand,so i resized the A arm mounting holes so they are looser and the vibe got better as i now can mount the swash and mixer arm hub assembly on the min shaft and move the swash around way easier....but i did not make the mounting holes in the A arms loose enough so they flop up and down under there own weight like the mixer arms so although the vibration was reduced and this center hub seemed the culprit of my problems from the start since as i said before ith the mixer hub assembly installed,if i would stop the mixer hub assembly from spinning the vibration would completly go away and the swash would just sit there still

On top of this,after resizing the A arms holes as much as i have so far,i can also say that with the just the swashplate mounted on the main shaft with the center mixer hub installed on it,it no longer will even spin like it would before when i spooled it up since the swash plate is no longer being forced against the main shaft in some slight awkward angle anymore so i have made progress...But do you think i should get the A arms fitting as loose as the mier arms and should that get rid of the vibes all together?

This problem with the A arms is probally also why i have some where on the main shaft where the swash center ball sits,as the swsh assembly being pushed up against the main shaft from the super stiffnes of the A arms

john josey

To free off any ball link i just give it a squeeze with a small pair of pliers. They last much longer than when re-sized. Remember though, a wobbling swashplate caused by tight links wont cause vibration when the helicopter is running. The two pins from the head block keep the washout base in place, so that should not mark the mainshaft.

rcpilot1982

well at low spool up with the swash that tight' it was being jammed against one side another'so it caused friction against the shaft.

Also it was not the ball Socket of the A arm that was tight...it was the hole in it in witch it mounts to the washout arms.

So you saying it was fine really tight like that so with the swash supported by my hand it was still jamming in either direction catching the main shaft and trying to rip from my hand?

At high speedthe swash does smooth out especially with blades,its when there are no blades and the head spins slow is when the tightness of the A arms were holding the swash at some small angle not letting it sit free.

Now should i make the A armsloose so they fall under there own weight like the mixer or is a little stiff fine?

i was reading somewhere else though where someone was having my same problem and it was found that the A arms were tight at the mounting point,and another member said this was bad.

Im sureprised that there is no ball race here and just a plastic hoe over a hardend shaft...not very loose

rcpilot1982

well at low spool up with the swash that tight' it was being jammed against one side another'so it caused friction against the shaft.

Also it was not the ball Socket of the A arm that was tight...it was the hole in it in witch it mounts to the washout arms.

So you saying it was fine really tight like that so with the swash supported by my hand it was still jamming in either direction catching the main shaft and trying to rip from my hand?

At high speedthe swash does smooth out especially with blades,its when there are no blades and the head spins slow is when the tightness of the A arms were holding the swash at some small angle not letting it sit free.

Now should i make the A armsloose so they fall under there own weight like the mixer or is a little stiff fine?

i was reading somewhere else though where someone was having my same problem and it was found that the A arms were tight at the mounting point,and another member said this was bad.

Im sureprised that there is no ball race here and just a plastic hoe over a hardend shaft...not very loose

john josey

I built mine in march 2009, but something tells me i ran a drill bit through it to free it up come to think of it, so, yes it must almost fall under it's own weight with no tight spots.

The only helicopter kit i have had those A arms ballraced was my x-cell pro's and they were serious money at the time.

rcpilot1982

yeah all my other helis have the A arms loose but these were so tight,that the swash plate with tbe servo links dissconnected was so tight that it would stick at evey angle,grabbing the main shaft and the swash fighting my hand to wobble with imy otber cheap helis have so much slop that i can dissconnect there links and let the swash just sit...since loosening the A arms thus far,the mixer hub no longer eaven spins with the main shaft anle to just spin freely without the swash mixer hub assembly pushing into so i will take the head off again and completly loosen the A arm mounts

rcpilot1982

i found that on the servo horns on my align ds415m servos,i had the control balls mounted on the first hole,and since the tips of the servo horns point towards the center of the heli,if you looked at the heli from the front the servo to swash arms formed a Y...so they were squeezing the swash causing tightness on it,so i moved the control balls to the second and last hole in towards the servo,so now the servo arms are going streight up and down is that how they are supposed to be

john josey

The links should be vertical. I thought the instructions give a measurement from centre of servo to centre of the ball ?

rcpilot1982

ok John,i replaced the main shaft,the main gear and nothing changed,so then i added a brand new swashplate,and the wobble reduced a good bit but is still a very small wobble in the swash,that you really have to feel for.

on the other side even the new main gear has a wobble in it that seems to match the PULSE of the wobble in the swashplate.

so it is possible for the main gear wobble to be felt through the main shaft and into the swashplate??? so maby this is nothing?

at full speed there is a bit vibration in the swashplate,but seems too get smoother with the blades installed

john josey

I think the issue your having is just simply tightness from the new parts. I take it you havent flown it yet ?

I think you'll find it will sort it's self out with a few flights on it.

john josey

I think the issue your having is just simply tightness from the new parts. I take it you havent flown it yet ?

I think you'll find it will sort it's self out with a few flights on it.

rcpilot1982

yes that sounds reasonable,and no i have not flown it yet,im sure that once it flys all the pressure exerted on the head will loosen things.

What about feeling a wobble in the main gear through the main shaft? as i look under the top rotor head bearing block and look at the lock collar,i can see the collar move a tiny tiny bit as if its moving with the up and down wobble of the main gear

also the swashplate is moving forward and backward....a tiny bit but you can feel it if you put your fingers wrapped around the swashplate

john josey

I think your worrying for nothing, finish the model and fly it. I'm sure it'll be super sweet.

rcpilot1982

yes with the blades on a spooled all the way theentire drivetrain smoothes out and te swashplate barely has any vibration actually none at all.

but the reason i have not flown it is because i am a beginner in the hover stage and i heard that this heli is not for beginners? as its more wild even during a hover?? so i dont think im ready for it??

what is your take on this

john josey

I can understand why some would say it's not for a beginer, there is a hint of truth in it, but in reality the only real difference between the align and furion helis is the furion has harder head dampers which doesnt allow it to 'sit' in the hover as nice as the align stuff. The furion is not any more difficult to fly than the others.

My advice for set-up for your self would be - a maximum of 6deg cyclic pitch and then 70% dual rate with 20 - 25% expo on that, that should soften it out nicely untill you start to get a feel for it.

rcpilot1982

Now dual rates?

i learned how to go into that setting,and program the expo on elevator,rudder,and aileron.

but by 70% and 20-25% expo does that mean 25% expo and reduce the throw of each of those channels from 100% to 70%

is this was dual rates mean? that you have dual adjustments related to stick softness and control?


and under the expo there is a thing called OST....what is that also? when i apply it i find that servos move off center

john josey

They're two different functions that can be used together to give the required 'feel' on the tail and cyclic. The dual rate lowers the total amount of throw from the 100% of the initial set-up, Expo reduces the throw around centre and has no effect at full stick deflection. If your using futaba radio, a negative value will be required to soften it and a positive value will be required for JR/spectrum.

I have no idea what OST is i'm afraid, i would leave it alone for now.

rcpilot1982

ok so dual rates are simply using a switch and setting it so if the switch is up you will get 100% throw and then putting the switch down will give you say 50% do to what you have set.

as far as expo,i can also set two different stick sensativities,on a switch,but dual rates are simply the above?

i was wondering why,both dual rates and expo were on one button on the radio...meaning when i go to select dual rates or expo they are both on one area of the radio.