Rudeboy

Ok... how the hell do I put my 2 antennae at a 90° angle in a diamond Dust without taping them across the wing or something silly like that...

I'm not really a big fan of the 2.4 stuff... the tiny antennae and 10mm carbon fibre tubing kinda gives me the creeps...

freakingfast

My Feedback: (3)

Yeah, me too. That's one of the reasons I haven't converted from 72 Mhz JR mini dual conversions (non synth). Never a glitch.
But you can be the guinea pig.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

All my Demons use 72mHz, I run the antenna in a plastic tube looped around the perimeter of the wing with a string to fish the antenna through after covering. Never a glitch either, so far. Not sure what I will do when time comes to try 2.4gHz in one.. good question.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I don't see where it would be an issue. There is just not enough CF to block the signal in a DD. As always do a good range check with the engine off and engine running.

iron eagel

That is a darn good question!
I am going to be using a 2.4 Ghz setup in my Demon and have been looking at a few glider threads to see what the guys with planes that have extensive use of carbon fiber in them.
Here is what I have gather so far...
Carbon Fiber is conductive and acts as much in the same way as a metal shield would for RF, so in there application they typically drill a small hole put down a small layer of tape extend the uninsulated portion outside of the body and tape it down over the insulated area they had setup beforehand. Only the braided portion needs to be outside of the CF structure something like 11 mm I think.
Now the entire body of my plane isn't carbon, but I do have the Front and rear spars of carbon along with the fins. I am going to mount mine internally in the fuselage forward of where my servos are spread at the 90 degrees from each other in a forward facing "V" shape on either side of the center section. The "V" will also be pointed up at the spread end so it is out of the same plane as the spars, basically just above the spars and see if it will work during the radio check.
As long as you don't have carbon or metal blanketing the signal it should work. Another possibility is to drill a hole inside of each of your fins at the proper angle as long (as there not covered in carbon) and they would work as long as it's just wood or fiberglass they are inside of. You could also make up a couple of full scale style antennas out of balsa and drill them out and mount them on the body for your antennas as well.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

In my home built deltas there isn't any carbon fiber. The spars look like CF, but they are fiberglass.
The original DD might contain CF spars [I've never seen an original DD in person] so a range test is a real good idea with a new radio set up.
I use a sport engine for the test and let it run WO. Turn the radio system on and leave the TX sitting on a work bench [with the antenna raised fully] then go for a walk with the running plane in hand. At my field I discovered glitching in one area a little over 1500 feet out. It might be a "noisy area" with a radio controlled gas pipe line, there are cell phone towers in the distance, and who knows what else. I tried a few different full range RXs in the same plane [Hitek Electron, 555, Futaba full size] and experienced similar problems with the elevons twitching at the far corner of this field. RF noise sources don't necessarily happen at all times, so the timing of these tests have a luck factor. All I know is this field has had some mysterious crashes and I avoid the corner of the field that the range test revealed.
I think doing the test with the engine running can reveal faulty connections..I just like to duplicate real world conditions if possible.
I've used the Spektrum Park Flyer 2.4 and just poke the antennae through holes in the center ribs.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

I think this is true. I don't use 72mHz in my deltas for fear of 2.4 - I use it because I generally fly 72mHz and only just bought my first 2.4gHz transmitter last season. I would follow the general rule to avoid having the antennae parallel to and close in proximity to the spars. Since there are two at 90 degrees perhaps skewing them both 45 degrees and keeping them away from the LE is all that is needed and even that may be AR.

iron eagel

Doing a range check like that (walking around with the plane with the engine running) is the best way to do it as far as I am concerned.
As far as the issues you described with the rf black hole you have going at your field have you tried using a toroid coil on your servo and power leads to the RX? I had similar issues with nearby sources of RF myself and that resolved my problems, granted it's not a magic bullet for all rf issues but helps in some cases.

As far as the DD I have seen some pictures of them with CF Spars and LE's but can't have not seen a lot of them other than in pictures.
I have three planes with 2.4 Ghz setups in them two that have the antennas are internal (classic balsa and film types) and one with carbon fiber and external antennas. It is my understanding that as long as your plane is not covered in a metallic film or carbon fiber having the antenna internally with 2.4 Ghz is not a problem. The more metal or conductive materials used in your the more the possibility of radio issues with internal antennas is my understanding. A few years ago when I first got into a setup with carbon fiber and a 2.4 radio I asked a question about it in a couple of forums, and what I have related is pretty much what I have been told. There is one interesting bit of information I did pick up a few years back when I first asked about it, a few guys with the dual receiver JR radios had the antennas internally on their planes and said they did not have any problems with their carbon fiber sailplanes.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

There are some nekkid DD pictures in this thread:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11284849]DD thread[/link]

Lots of free space between spars, I don't think there is an issue here. Unless you use silver or chrome Monokote perhaps.. which IMHO is the opposite of a good base colour for a fast delta anyways.

Rudeboy

Apparently it is not really a problem.
I put one antenna into the wing, and one to the rear on top of the wing.

The maiden was quite uneventful. Control was perfect, 2 clicks of down trim, that was it.
[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGE-_QrLNug]Engine test[/link]
[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRhqhWYEn2I]Short maiden clip[/link]

Cameraman did not succeed in tracking the plane

iron eagel

Glad to hear all went well with the maiden.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Congratulations Rudeboy..! It has been many years it seems since you had that accident and it is great news to hear that you are flying again.
What kind of land do you have to fly a speed plane in Belgium..?
My Dad was stationed there as a P-47 pilot at St. Trond [Google "Sigma-Nu Girl", 404th fighter group, 9th Army Airforce, Lt Charles Matheny] and was decorated by the Belgians after the Battle of the Bulge in the St. Lo area. He brought home "souveniers" from Belgium including 8mm film of a bombing run and some enlarged photos of targets destroyed during that campaign.

freakingfast

My Feedback: (3)

The kits have black fiber glass spars(non-conductive). The most after market substitutes people find are carbon fiber(very conductive).

Rudeboy

CP: wow, your father got to fly P-47's...that's awesome. I live very close to St.-Trond (Sint-Truiden in dutch) actually, about 15 miles or so from here. Good to hear he made it out of the war in one piece!
It's been a few years yes, I got back in to flying last year.
As for flying fast planes, noise is a big issue here. No open pipes and such. We're just about the only club left in Belgium with active pylon racing, so at least I don't get dirty looks when I arrive at the field with something like that Diamond Dust. As I live in a rural area, I could fly my planes at home actually...there's a farmer here with a huge piece of clean grassland that I fly off regularly. And our club is pretty well situated too...plenty of room for a fast plane.

Freakingfast: mine has a mix of carbon and glass tubing. I guess I was worrying over nothing. It's just that when they start putting "effective range" in the specifications of a receiver, I get an awkward feeling. In the old days there was simply no talk of range...
I range checked it, and and it had plenty.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Your dad flew in the Battle of the Bulge? No ****. I got a copy of Hell Hawks for Christmas (about the 365th). Hell of an aircraft, not to mention the men who flew them who had some serious stones.

Not everyone can go on line and find decal sets for their dad's aircraft: [link=http://www.brookhursthobbies.com/Product-Detail.cfm?P=SSIMS481161&N=10]P-47D decal set[/link]

iron eagel

That's so weird I had a relative flying p-47's as well.
http://www.p47pilots.com/P47-Pilots....m%20H.%20Ehney
My dad wasn't a pilot, he was stationed in the Philippines at the start of WWII, survivor of the battle of Bataan.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The decal company asked me and my sister if the "nose art" was on both sides of the plane and it was kind of embarrassing to answer back, "We don't know".
The aircraft mfg. [Republic] sent all the moms of the pilots letters to rassure them that their sons were flying in the most heavily armored and capable planes in the world. What they didn't tell Mom was that they were overloaded flying bombs on takeoff....!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Mr Ehney had quite a battle record...! I notice the P47 pilots averaged 80 to 90 missions.
Your Dad got a head start on a lot of guys who volunteered within minutes of the radio news about Pearl Harbor. My Dad was shaving in his dorm room at Cal Berkley that morning and by the time he got down to the induction center there was already a line wrapped around the block full of angry young men trying to join the Navy.

iron eagel

He was one of my dad's cousins I had heard stories about him but never knew much about him til I found that story. My dad grew up on a farm in Texas, he joined the army to get off the farm, and see the rest of the world, besides there was a lot of career military in our family at the time. He wound up as a guest of the Japanese for over three years, and got some experience with foreign language.
My mother was in the navy, care to take a guess where she was stationed in 41?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Pearl Harbor..? What a shock that must have been
My Dad's sister was stationed in Guam for the duration of the war and loved it.

iron eagel

Yep, she learned to drive a jeep that day, dodging bomb craters carrying stretchers, she loved Hawaii and was there for the entire war (some of the pictures she had) the USS Franklin coming back into Peal is one that I remember.
Guam! Oh my, was she there during the occupation?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I don't think WACs would have been in Guam until after it was liberated, but I don't know how Guam was taken back.
I've looked at places like that all around the world to see what the cost of living is and what life is like in general. I think I'll just stay right here.

iron eagel

There were a few women in the service prior to the outbreak of the war in the medical corps. My mother was assigned to temporary duty at pearl the fall of 41 as it was considered a "safe" area. When they assigned WAVES to the pacific she transferred from the medical corps to fleet HQ.

Your right they may be nice places to visit perhaps, but that's about all...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Everyone in his squadron survived the war, even 1 guy who was shot down but made it back to safety. Many of the guys in his squadron died flying commercial or private aviation after the war....within 15 or 20 years after the war.
It seems like land usage rights should be pretty stable in an old country like Belgium. If the population is stable and not growing, that would be a good thing so that agricultural and recreational land can remain.
I'd like to go on a "beer binge" train ride throughout your part of Europe, visit the monasteries...ending the tour in Holland, then take the polar route back home with a stop over in Iceland.

Rudeboy

I guess the jet age set in after the war...and there were a lot of bad apples among those planes in the early years...

The problem over here with flying model airplanes is this: you're basically not allowed to fly them anywhere! You can't "officially" fly on agricultural land, because then you're doing a recreational activity in an area destined for agriculture. You can't fly em on recreational land, because they are "quiet zones", no noise allowed. And you certainly are not allowed to fly on industrial, residential or, god forbid, "green" land.
So that's it, you can't fly anywhere.

Now, we managed to get an exception for our club years ago (we are in an agricultural zone), and we have a good understanding with farmers, landowners and the people who live in the vicinity.
But we do have to be careful, because one noise related complaint is enough to get the red tape machine ticking again, and once you get entangled in that mess there's no end in sight really.

And if you plan a trip, let me know! I'll put you up for a few days, play tour guide and take you down to the club for a cold one. As it happens we're just building a brand new clubhouse, and it's going to be quite comfortable...