~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
02-25-2013, 08:53 AM
#227
Banned
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
ORIGINAL: Planejaw
The main reason for so much down thrust is a result of the Clark-Y airfoil. With the flat-bottom airfoil, there is a significant pitch-up effect when power is added. The down-thrust helps to counteract that.
The main reason for so much down thrust is a result of the Clark-Y airfoil. With the flat-bottom airfoil, there is a significant pitch-up effect when power is added. The down-thrust helps to counteract that.
Down thrust is also used by fellows who wish to apply more power to get more speed wihout starting climbing.
Note that this down thrust setting is a compromise.
Zor
02-25-2013, 10:04 AM
#228
Member
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
Let me start by saying that I'm glad I joined this forum, and I'm glad I built the Kadet. You guys are great, and have a wealth of knowledge. To respond to the few people that responded to me, here are my thoughts from my perspective:
I understand the principles that define the "trainer", such as the dihedral wing (more controlled dispersement of lift to the wingtips and reduced roll potential), the right/down thrust (counter torque spin). I'm actually formally educated in Aero Engineering (as well as Electrical), but the comments about "people-sized" planes is something that I wasn't considering for RC. It's entirely relevant for ALL planes of all sizes. Thanks for the reminder! : ) . The attribute of being able to throttle up without causing the plane to "lift" is another good point, such as Zor stated, though it creates some serious drag that I don't feel is worth the trade-off on this plane.
In "real" planes (1:1), everyone's comments so far are spot on that they control descent/ascent with thrust increase/decrease. Piloting a 1:1 plane (sitting in the plane), this is standard for take-off and landing once the plane is trimmed properly. But with RC planes smaller than 10ft or so, I've found that for practical applications, the plane is too small for those principles to really matter that much, since gravity, wind, air pressure, and air density don't scale to the size of the plane. I think it's a matter of practicality, not idealistic physics.
HOWEVER, this is the first trainer that I've ever flown (I'm a pretty good 3D pilot, but I kinda jumped right into that, after a few crashes, lol), and I'm inclined to take the word of experience that it helps even in the small scale of these types of planes; many of you have flown MANY trainers and have alot of examples to compare against. What I've found with my "scale" flyers that have dihedral, is that (with minimal downthrust), I can trim the plane such that when I go "hands off" and throttle off, the plane will porpoise for a bit to slow to a characteristic speed, and then just slowly descend on its own to a nice automatic landing of sorts. But this is done by trimming the elevator slightly upwards at a neutral offset, and it does not really hurt general flight efficiency.
With significant downthrust, it KILLS the efficiency of the power system because the thrust literally fights the plane's desire to fly the way it wants. I got maybe 8-9minutes out of a 5000mAh battery on the flights with the downthrust as recommended. When I removed it, I was able to get a 30min flight, and that was WITH trying to run the battery down by using more throttle than necessary to see when the battery would discharge. If I were to manage the throttle for better flighttime, I bet I could get 40-45min out of that battery.
So, that all leads to the difference between a "trainer", and a "sport" flyer I suppose. It would seem that it takes much energy and a significant reduction in efficiency to keep the plane stable as a dedicated "trainer". The more lift you have, the more drag you have, obviously. The downthrust requires some up-elevator trim, which is more drag. And if the ailerons are matching the curvature of the top of the wing to create constant "flaps", that's more drag. lol. These things are all great for slow/stable flight, but the cost is not only intended performance decrease, but a MUCH greater load on the power system and plane in general. The dihedral doesn't affect drag, so that's nice. I would say the dihedral is the best trade-off for a trainer, since it only affects maneuverability, not efficiency.
I understand the principles that define the "trainer", such as the dihedral wing (more controlled dispersement of lift to the wingtips and reduced roll potential), the right/down thrust (counter torque spin). I'm actually formally educated in Aero Engineering (as well as Electrical), but the comments about "people-sized" planes is something that I wasn't considering for RC. It's entirely relevant for ALL planes of all sizes. Thanks for the reminder! : ) . The attribute of being able to throttle up without causing the plane to "lift" is another good point, such as Zor stated, though it creates some serious drag that I don't feel is worth the trade-off on this plane.
In "real" planes (1:1), everyone's comments so far are spot on that they control descent/ascent with thrust increase/decrease. Piloting a 1:1 plane (sitting in the plane), this is standard for take-off and landing once the plane is trimmed properly. But with RC planes smaller than 10ft or so, I've found that for practical applications, the plane is too small for those principles to really matter that much, since gravity, wind, air pressure, and air density don't scale to the size of the plane. I think it's a matter of practicality, not idealistic physics.
HOWEVER, this is the first trainer that I've ever flown (I'm a pretty good 3D pilot, but I kinda jumped right into that, after a few crashes, lol), and I'm inclined to take the word of experience that it helps even in the small scale of these types of planes; many of you have flown MANY trainers and have alot of examples to compare against. What I've found with my "scale" flyers that have dihedral, is that (with minimal downthrust), I can trim the plane such that when I go "hands off" and throttle off, the plane will porpoise for a bit to slow to a characteristic speed, and then just slowly descend on its own to a nice automatic landing of sorts. But this is done by trimming the elevator slightly upwards at a neutral offset, and it does not really hurt general flight efficiency.
With significant downthrust, it KILLS the efficiency of the power system because the thrust literally fights the plane's desire to fly the way it wants. I got maybe 8-9minutes out of a 5000mAh battery on the flights with the downthrust as recommended. When I removed it, I was able to get a 30min flight, and that was WITH trying to run the battery down by using more throttle than necessary to see when the battery would discharge. If I were to manage the throttle for better flighttime, I bet I could get 40-45min out of that battery.
So, that all leads to the difference between a "trainer", and a "sport" flyer I suppose. It would seem that it takes much energy and a significant reduction in efficiency to keep the plane stable as a dedicated "trainer". The more lift you have, the more drag you have, obviously. The downthrust requires some up-elevator trim, which is more drag. And if the ailerons are matching the curvature of the top of the wing to create constant "flaps", that's more drag. lol. These things are all great for slow/stable flight, but the cost is not only intended performance decrease, but a MUCH greater load on the power system and plane in general. The dihedral doesn't affect drag, so that's nice. I would say the dihedral is the best trade-off for a trainer, since it only affects maneuverability, not efficiency.
final thought on that:
By removing the down-thrust, I was able to remove my ADDITIONAL up-elevator trim to counter the thrust angle, and that was the main factor that "lightened" my plane up for a more efficient flight; it literally felt sluggish with the down-thrust, and took a TON of energy and reduced my flight times. In my opinion, I would say that as a pure "trainer", the design should incorporate an appropriate dihedral for flight stability, but to minimize the downthrust for flight efficiency; it's just not needed on this size plane and I don't think it really helps that much to make the plane more stable for a beginner.
Instead, the throttle should be limited such that at full throttle, and trimmed properly, the plane will climb slightly, and if throttled back and hands-off, the plane will slow to a characteristic speed on its own and fly level, to effectively "land itself" eventually. A complete novice would not likely know how to set this up, of course, which is why a skilled friend could do it for them to get them in the air safely. I really just don't agree with the design's recommendation on the downthrust at all... it only needs like 1deg or so, which when coupled with the right-thrust, will help counter torque roll (important to maintain).
final-final thought:
A true novice should buy an EasyStar and get comfortable with that first, then get a Kadet as a second plane. : )
02-25-2013, 10:54 AM
#229
Banned
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
stupidscreenname,
You certainly are NOT stupid as examplified by your posting.
I am hesitating to suggest that you should change your forum identification.
I just have to agree that your forum name is a "stupidscreenname" LOL
.
Zor
You certainly are NOT stupid as examplified by your posting.
I am hesitating to suggest that you should change your forum identification.
I just have to agree that your forum name is a "stupidscreenname" LOL
. Zor
02-25-2013, 11:04 AM
#230
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
I guess it goes to show that it is better to have a name somehow implying stupidity and post something that makes absolute sense or genius, than a screen name of an ex-spurt (i.e., a former drip under pressure 
) who proclaims a completely ignorant retort. (Some people only open their mouths to change feet. )
I guess one could build a Kadet with a symmetrical wing profile with mild or no dihedral, zero incidence engine and stabilizer. But then one has removed the beauty of it as a trainer and as a simple Sunday sport flier. I think the beauty of such a plane caught in some thermal activity to extend its puttering around the sky as simply exhilarating.
) who proclaims a completely ignorant retort. (Some people only open their mouths to change feet. )I guess one could build a Kadet with a symmetrical wing profile with mild or no dihedral, zero incidence engine and stabilizer. But then one has removed the beauty of it as a trainer and as a simple Sunday sport flier. I think the beauty of such a plane caught in some thermal activity to extend its puttering around the sky as simply exhilarating.
02-25-2013, 11:28 AM
#231
Member
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
Yeah. I agree about that "lazy flying" design of the Kadet. That's why my friend recommended it to me as I see now. After some intense flights with the likes of my 48" and 78" Extra300s:
( http://extremeflightrc.com/html/78extra.html and http://extremeflightrc.com/html/48extra.html ) , it's nice to throw my Kadet up there and just relax. The fun of it for me is to swoop around like an albatross and do some clean two-point landings with the tail nearly touching. The Kadet definitely SWOOPS. haha. I love it. Yesterday I was doing "banking landings" where I would land on one tire and settle to two, and then finally touch the nose gear. Tons of fun, lol.
It's a different kind of flying. With these trainer planes, you feel like you're "flying" with physics... while with peformance 3D, you're flying with control surface deflection and pure power. There's a place for relaxed flying no matter how skilled one becomes. Awesome stuff.
( http://extremeflightrc.com/html/78extra.html and http://extremeflightrc.com/html/48extra.html ) , it's nice to throw my Kadet up there and just relax. The fun of it for me is to swoop around like an albatross and do some clean two-point landings with the tail nearly touching. The Kadet definitely SWOOPS. haha. I love it. Yesterday I was doing "banking landings" where I would land on one tire and settle to two, and then finally touch the nose gear. Tons of fun, lol.
It's a different kind of flying. With these trainer planes, you feel like you're "flying" with physics... while with peformance 3D, you're flying with control surface deflection and pure power. There's a place for relaxed flying no matter how skilled one becomes. Awesome stuff.
02-25-2013, 11:35 AM
#232
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
One lesson I learned the hard way years ago was that down thrust can be very helpful on a high wing trainer. I changed the motor mount and in doing so, eliminated the down thrust on my plane. When I took off, the trainer became very pitch sensitive, like it was tail heavy (the CG was OK). At low throttle, it was very stable again. I believe the down thrust helped minimize the thrust line offset when I throttled up. Some folks mix in some down elevator to compensate for the pitch change, but you're still adding drag.
02-25-2013, 12:48 PM
#233
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
Get me in on this one, I built and flew a couple over the years, my fondest memories of way back when was the Kadet. I had a Kadet Jr that I flew the h*** out of, right up to the point where it went through a woven wire fence...
SIgn me up!
Beevo (aka Bill VanOrden)
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02-25-2013, 12:51 PM
#234
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
I used to live in eastern Iowa and Claude bought a car from the dealership I worked for. I serviced the vehicel for a number of years. Went over to SIGa number of times and got the no holds barred tour. I met most of the notables from SIG over the years.
I just got back into RC after a 20 year hiatus, currently building a SIG four star 20 kit
Beevo (aka Bill VanOrden)
AMA81688
I just got back into RC after a 20 year hiatus, currently building a SIG four star 20 kit
Beevo (aka Bill VanOrden)
AMA81688
02-25-2013, 02:26 PM
#235
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
ORIGINAL: beevo
Get me in on this one, I built and flew a couple over the years, my fondest memories of way back when was the Kadet. I had a Kadet Jr that I flew the h*** out of, right up to the point where it went through a woven wire fence...
SIgn me up!
Beevo (aka Bill VanOrden)
AMA 81688
Get me in on this one, I built and flew a couple over the years, my fondest memories of way back when was the Kadet. I had a Kadet Jr that I flew the h*** out of, right up to the point where it went through a woven wire fence...
SIgn me up!
Beevo (aka Bill VanOrden)
AMA 81688
Gotcha in brother! [8D]
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And woot! My Solartex just showed up. Time to fire up the iron. [&:]
02-25-2013, 02:34 PM
#236
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
Hey Gary! Still taking members? My very first RC plane was a 3-channel Kadet, back in 1973. Loved that plane!!!!!
Probably should build another to go along with my LiveWire Champ (which I also love to fly).
Dave
Probably should build another to go along with my LiveWire Champ (which I also love to fly).
Dave
02-25-2013, 02:41 PM
#237
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
My first successful flight was on the LT-40 arf with a os 46la blue engine. Watching that plane float around made me feel like a lil kid with a new toy. Still hanging from the ceiling ready to go just in case. Bought a 4star 60 kit a few months ago as a first kit and here I go feeling like a kid again!
02-25-2013, 02:45 PM
#238
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
ORIGINAL: skylark-flier
Hey Gary! Still taking members? My very first RC plane was a 3-channel Kadet, back in 1973. Loved that plane!!!!!
Probably should build another to go along with my LiveWire Champ (which I also love to fly).
Dave
Hey Gary! Still taking members? My very first RC plane was a 3-channel Kadet, back in 1973. Loved that plane!!!!!
Probably should build another to go along with my LiveWire Champ (which I also love to fly).
Dave
Welcome to the Brotherhood!
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02-25-2013, 02:47 PM
#239
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
ORIGINAL: my05monte
My first successful flight was on the LT-40 arf with a os 46la blue engine. Watching that plane float around made me feel like a lil kid with a new toy. Still hanging from the ceiling ready to go just in case. Bought a 4star 60 kit a few months ago as a first kit and here I go feeling like a kid again!
My first successful flight was on the LT-40 arf with a os 46la blue engine. Watching that plane float around made me feel like a lil kid with a new toy. Still hanging from the ceiling ready to go just in case. Bought a 4star 60 kit a few months ago as a first kit and here I go feeling like a kid again!
02-25-2013, 03:07 PM
#240
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
I thank you kindly, good sir - GREATNUMBER!!!!
Wanted to come back - just now read through all the posts from #1 and saw that your mother passed away very recently. You truly have my condolences with her loss.
With a bit of luck I'll eventually find a few pics of my Kadet. It was finished in the original red/black scheme (I've got no imagination at all) and flew with an Enya .35 - - UNMUFFLED, on a 6 ounce fuel tank (spare from my CLactivities). Still have the engine and it still runs - never found a muffler for it though. If the newer Kadets are anything even close to as good and easy as the originals were, they're GREAT!! Mine taught me how to fly RC - literally. I built it, ran it all over a shopping center parking lot with the wing off and elevator locked on "up" so I could get the feel of the rudder. Once I was ready (about 3 tanks of fuel through the engine) I put the wing on, unlocked the elevator and flew her. What a thrill!!!!!! Was even better when the engine quit and I landed without crashing.
Yeah, those were the days.
Dave
Wanted to come back - just now read through all the posts from #1 and saw that your mother passed away very recently. You truly have my condolences with her loss.
With a bit of luck I'll eventually find a few pics of my Kadet. It was finished in the original red/black scheme (I've got no imagination at all) and flew with an Enya .35 - - UNMUFFLED, on a 6 ounce fuel tank (spare from my CLactivities). Still have the engine and it still runs - never found a muffler for it though. If the newer Kadets are anything even close to as good and easy as the originals were, they're GREAT!! Mine taught me how to fly RC - literally. I built it, ran it all over a shopping center parking lot with the wing off and elevator locked on "up" so I could get the feel of the rudder. Once I was ready (about 3 tanks of fuel through the engine) I put the wing on, unlocked the elevator and flew her. What a thrill!!!!!! Was even better when the engine quit and I landed without crashing.
Yeah, those were the days.
Dave
ORIGINAL: GaryHarris
You betcha!
Welcome to the Brotherhood!
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ORIGINAL: skylark-flier
Hey Gary! Still taking members? My very first RC plane was a 3-channel Kadet, back in 1973. Loved that plane!!!!!
Probably should build another to go along with my LiveWire Champ (which I also love to fly).
Dave
Hey Gary! Still taking members? My very first RC plane was a 3-channel Kadet, back in 1973. Loved that plane!!!!!
Probably should build another to go along with my LiveWire Champ (which I also love to fly).
Dave
Welcome to the Brotherhood!
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02-25-2013, 03:13 PM
#241
Banned
RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
ORIGINAL: my05monte
My first successful flight was on the LT-40 arf with a os 46la blue engine. Watching that plane float around made me feel like a lil kid with a new toy. Still hanging from the ceiling ready to go just in case. Bought a 4star 60 kit a few months ago as a first kit and here I go feeling like a kid again!
My first successful flight was on the LT-40 arf with a os 46la blue engine. Watching that plane float around made me feel like a lil kid with a new toy. Still hanging from the ceiling ready to go just in case. Bought a 4star 60 kit a few months ago as a first kit and here I go feeling like a kid again!
Once we have a model ready to fly, it does not matter so much if we bought it ready to fly (RTF), or if we assembled it (ARF), or built it from a kit or partial kit, or built it from scratch from only a drawing or perhaps even without a drawing, we then have a toy to play with just like when we were kids.
Another aspect of this hobby is that it can challenge us to the utmost wigth all its technicalities and possible knowledge acquisitions in most sciences and technologies.
There is so much to enjoy.
Zor
02-25-2013, 03:16 PM
#242
Senior Member
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
Thank you Dave. I will miss my Mom but with every tragedy, offers enlightenment. I have two kids and a Grandson I haven't been spending enough time with. That has changed within a week of my Mothers passing.
02-25-2013, 03:17 PM
#243
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
ORIGINAL: Zor
That is one good thing about this hobby; ''make us feel like in our childhood''.
Once we have a model ready to fly, it does not matter so much if we bought it ready to fly (RTF), or if we assembled it (ARF), or built it from a kit or partial kit, or built it from scratch from only a drawing or perhaps even without a drawing, we then have a toy to play with just like when we were kids.
Another aspect of this hobby is that it can challenge us to the utmost wigth all its technicalities and possible knowledge acquisitions in most sciences and technologies.
There is so much to enjoy.
Zor
ORIGINAL: my05monte
My first successful flight was on the LT-40 arf with a os 46la blue engine. Watching that plane float around made me feel like a lil kid with a new toy. Still hanging from the ceiling ready to go just in case. Bought a 4star 60 kit a few months ago as a first kit and here I go feeling like a kid again!
My first successful flight was on the LT-40 arf with a os 46la blue engine. Watching that plane float around made me feel like a lil kid with a new toy. Still hanging from the ceiling ready to go just in case. Bought a 4star 60 kit a few months ago as a first kit and here I go feeling like a kid again!
Once we have a model ready to fly, it does not matter so much if we bought it ready to fly (RTF), or if we assembled it (ARF), or built it from a kit or partial kit, or built it from scratch from only a drawing or perhaps even without a drawing, we then have a toy to play with just like when we were kids.
Another aspect of this hobby is that it can challenge us to the utmost wigth all its technicalities and possible knowledge acquisitions in most sciences and technologies.
There is so much to enjoy.
Zor
So true Zor.
02-25-2013, 03:23 PM
#244
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
I got one in trade, (senior) and was going to just trade or sell it and my good buddy said, "you might want to fly it first" I did and now love the plane! It has a Saito 56 on it and I just let my Telemaster stay in the old hanger...in other words...count me in!!
Hugh
Hugh
02-25-2013, 03:34 PM
#245
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
Welcome to the Brotherhood our Brother! May balsa dust cover your board.
BTW, I just fell back in love with Solartex. This stuff is amazing.
GaryHarris. Number 1.
soarrich. Number 2.
N1EDM. Number 3.
Live Wire. Number 4.
5skyhawk172. Number 5.
zippome. Number 6.
shepard62 . Number 7.
GraemeEllis . Number 8.
archie05 . Number 9.
tomgreen. Number 10.
n2ryd. Number 11.
race61. Number 12.
Slavko. Number 13.
lkruse. Number 14.
flyingagin. Number 15.
JPNYGAARD. Number 16.
foodstick. Number 17.
ovationdave. Number 18.
joebahl. Number 19.
WI53072. Number 20.
huck1199. Number 21.
Top_Gunn. Number 22.
Nergall. NUmber 23.
acdii. Number 24.
hutchis. Number 25.
ddewey. Number 26.
dhal22. Number 27.
tom_sandiego. Number 28.
chuckaluck. Number 29.
Greg Davis. Number 30.
CanDo. Number 31.
gva1956. Number 32.
metaldriver. Number 33.
Bladejunkie. Number 34.
New222. Number 35.
cubflyman . Number 36.
dasquirrelisme. Number 37.
Planejaw. Number 38.
usc1990. Number 39.
cjet. Number 40.
Murphey. Number 41.
Sandyt. Number 42.
planedriver_2. Number 43.
PT19. Number 44.
TimHendrix. Number 45.
jessiej. Number 46.
Mr-Punk. Number 47.
rccrasher65. Number 48.
FMAY. Number 49.
Hrannar. Number 50
Razor44. NUmber 51.
Ken Kehlet. Number 52.
oldfartpilot. Number 53.
Soaring Steve. Number 54.
freefall2907. Number 55.
fix-n-fly. Number 56.
SigMan. Number 57.
eroc144. Number 58.
nextofkin. Number 59.
ALT. Number 60.
jstyle13. Number 61.
WYDAH. Number 62.
stupidscreenname. Number 63.
coxco. Number 64.
TunnelBill. Number 65.
mike109 . Number 66.
beevo. Number 67.
Lowvoltage. Number 68.
skylark-flier. Number 69.
hugh durden. Number 70.
BTW, I just fell back in love with Solartex. This stuff is amazing.
GaryHarris. Number 1.
soarrich. Number 2.
N1EDM. Number 3.
Live Wire. Number 4.
5skyhawk172. Number 5.
zippome. Number 6.
shepard62 . Number 7.
GraemeEllis . Number 8.
archie05 . Number 9.
tomgreen. Number 10.
n2ryd. Number 11.
race61. Number 12.
Slavko. Number 13.
lkruse. Number 14.
flyingagin. Number 15.
JPNYGAARD. Number 16.
foodstick. Number 17.
ovationdave. Number 18.
joebahl. Number 19.
WI53072. Number 20.
huck1199. Number 21.
Top_Gunn. Number 22.
Nergall. NUmber 23.
acdii. Number 24.
hutchis. Number 25.
ddewey. Number 26.
dhal22. Number 27.
tom_sandiego. Number 28.
chuckaluck. Number 29.
Greg Davis. Number 30.
CanDo. Number 31.
gva1956. Number 32.
metaldriver. Number 33.
Bladejunkie. Number 34.
New222. Number 35.
cubflyman . Number 36.
dasquirrelisme. Number 37.
Planejaw. Number 38.
usc1990. Number 39.
cjet. Number 40.
Murphey. Number 41.
Sandyt. Number 42.
planedriver_2. Number 43.
PT19. Number 44.
TimHendrix. Number 45.
jessiej. Number 46.
Mr-Punk. Number 47.
rccrasher65. Number 48.
FMAY. Number 49.
Hrannar. Number 50
Razor44. NUmber 51.
Ken Kehlet. Number 52.
oldfartpilot. Number 53.
Soaring Steve. Number 54.
freefall2907. Number 55.
fix-n-fly. Number 56.
SigMan. Number 57.
eroc144. Number 58.
nextofkin. Number 59.
ALT. Number 60.
jstyle13. Number 61.
WYDAH. Number 62.
stupidscreenname. Number 63.
coxco. Number 64.
TunnelBill. Number 65.
mike109 . Number 66.
beevo. Number 67.
Lowvoltage. Number 68.
skylark-flier. Number 69.
hugh durden. Number 70.
02-25-2013, 03:45 PM
#246
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
I was torn between the telemaster and the kadet.... I volunteer for the local STEM program and they have a "UAV" challenge that I was mentoring them on. They used two telemasters, and it seemed like a good plane. But my friend got me to take a look at the kadet. I decided to try the kadet, and I'm glad I did.
02-25-2013, 05:02 PM
#250
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RE: ~~Sig Kadet Brotherhood~~.
ORIGINAL: stupidscreenname
http://www.sigmfg.com/IndexText/SIGRC84ARFB.html
http://www.sigmfg.com/IndexText/SIGRC84ARFB.html
WUT THE HECK IS THAT THING!?!?
Holy smokes... I need that.
You gonna need a bigger car!