JR DMSS on Jets
02-27-2013, 01:19 PM
#26
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: afterburner
Because since day one of 2.4, Futaba guys enjoyed ''hopping'' around into other peoples threads wheras JR/Spektrum guys just couldn't hop even if they wanted to.
Marty
ORIGINAL: airraptor
how come futaba guys cant stay out of the JR/Specktrum threads. of I know dreaming they had a good radio but feel bad if they switch JR do you see us JR guys coming to your one futaba thread? no....
how come futaba guys cant stay out of the JR/Specktrum threads. of I know dreaming they had a good radio but feel bad if they switch JR do you see us JR guys coming to your one futaba thread? no....
Marty
Marty,
We might not be able to "Hop"... But we are "Agile". I think hopping is looks silly, Being agile is much more graceful !!!!
Danno
02-27-2013, 02:11 PM
#27
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: rcjetsaok
Marty,
We might not be able to ''Hop''... But we are ''Agile''. I think hopping is looks silly, Being agile is much more graceful !!!!
Dan,
After pitting next to you and Jim in KY, and enjoying your company, agile and graceful are probably the last words that come to mind Neighborly, helpful etc are more applicable. I'll have to look a little harder this July for some grace.
Marty
Danno
ORIGINAL: afterburner
Because since day one of 2.4, Futaba guys enjoyed ''hopping'' around into other peoples threads wheras JR/Spektrum guys just couldn't hop even if they wanted to.
Marty
ORIGINAL: airraptor
how come futaba guys cant stay out of the JR/Specktrum threads. of I know dreaming they had a good radio but feel bad if they switch JR do you see us JR guys coming to your one futaba thread? no....
how come futaba guys cant stay out of the JR/Specktrum threads. of I know dreaming they had a good radio but feel bad if they switch JR do you see us JR guys coming to your one futaba thread? no....
Marty
Marty,
We might not be able to ''Hop''... But we are ''Agile''. I think hopping is looks silly, Being agile is much more graceful !!!!
Dan,
After pitting next to you and Jim in KY, and enjoying your company, agile and graceful are probably the last words that come to mind
Neighborly, helpful etc are more applicable. I'll have to look a little harder this July for some grace.Marty
Danno
02-27-2013, 02:43 PM
#28
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: afterburner
ORIGINAL: rcjetsaok
Marty,
We might not be able to ''Hop''... But we are ''Agile''. I think hopping is looks silly, Being agile is much more graceful !!!!
Dan,
After pitting next to you and Jim in KY, and enjoying your company, agile and graceful are probably the last words that come to mind Neighborly, helpful etc are more applicable. I'll have to look a little harder this July for some grace.
Marty
Danno
ORIGINAL: afterburner
Because since day one of 2.4, Futaba guys enjoyed ''hopping'' around into other peoples threads wheras JR/Spektrum guys just couldn't hop even if they wanted to.
Marty
ORIGINAL: airraptor
how come futaba guys cant stay out of the JR/Specktrum threads. of I know dreaming they had a good radio but feel bad if they switch JR do you see us JR guys coming to your one futaba thread? no....
how come futaba guys cant stay out of the JR/Specktrum threads. of I know dreaming they had a good radio but feel bad if they switch JR do you see us JR guys coming to your one futaba thread? no....
Marty
Marty,
We might not be able to ''Hop''... But we are ''Agile''. I think hopping is looks silly, Being agile is much more graceful !!!!
Dan,
After pitting next to you and Jim in KY, and enjoying your company, agile and graceful are probably the last words that come to mind
Neighborly, helpful etc are more applicable. I'll have to look a little harder this July for some grace.Marty
Danno
I know that's right !!! Looking forward to JOK again !!! See ya there !!!
Dan
02-27-2013, 02:52 PM
#29
My Feedback: (2)
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: Dustin Buescher
DSM2 and DSMX allow multiple satellite receivers, the option to check fades and holds, and move things around - features not offered by other 2.4 Ghz systems to optimize a reliable link.
Drinking the kool-aid from a half full glass! LOL
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
Actually, DSMX is frequency hopping, but it is not that similar to FASST.
DSM2 and DSMX are Spektrum and require multiple satellite receivers, checking fades and holds, moving things around - the general fussing that no other 2.4 GHz system requires for a reliable link.
DMSS is JR's native 2.4 GHz system (a bit late) that uses just one receiver and 2 antennas like the other non-Spektrum 2.4 GHz systems out there...
Bob
ORIGINAL: rcand
pardon if this is a stupid question, but I have been using JR for a lot of years and my 12X was DMS2 was recently converted to DSMX, which is on my Ultra Flash. what is DMSS? DSMX does frequency hopping similar to Futaba FAST
pardon if this is a stupid question, but I have been using JR for a lot of years and my 12X was DMS2 was recently converted to DSMX, which is on my Ultra Flash. what is DMSS? DSMX does frequency hopping similar to Futaba FAST
DSM2 and DSMX are Spektrum and require multiple satellite receivers, checking fades and holds, moving things around - the general fussing that no other 2.4 GHz system requires for a reliable link.
DMSS is JR's native 2.4 GHz system (a bit late) that uses just one receiver and 2 antennas like the other non-Spektrum 2.4 GHz systems out there...
Bob
DSM2 and DSMX allow multiple satellite receivers, the option to check fades and holds, and move things around - features not offered by other 2.4 Ghz systems to optimize a reliable link.
Drinking the kool-aid from a half full glass! LOL
I'm not posting to argue any particular transmission algorithm over another here. But hardware wize... with satellites and the ability to quantify / optimize performance I don't understand how that feature could be a detriment to the system. (unless its being discussed in a marketing department somewhere...)
Kelly
02-27-2013, 04:35 PM
#30
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: Dustin Buescher
DSM2 and DSMX allow multiple satellite receivers, the option to check fades and holds, and move things around - features not offered by other 2.4 Ghz systems to optimize a reliable link.
Drinking the kool-aid from a half full glass! LOL
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
Actually, DSMX is frequency hopping, but it is not that similar to FASST.
DSM2 and DSMX are Spektrum and require multiple satellite receivers, checking fades and holds, moving things around - the general fussing that no other 2.4 GHz system requires for a reliable link.
DMSS is JR's native 2.4 GHz system (a bit late) that uses just one receiver and 2 antennas like the other non-Spektrum 2.4 GHz systems out there...
Bob
ORIGINAL: rcand
pardon if this is a stupid question, but I have been using JR for a lot of years and my 12X was DMS2 was recently converted to DSMX, which is on my Ultra Flash. what is DMSS? DSMX does frequency hopping similar to Futaba FAST
pardon if this is a stupid question, but I have been using JR for a lot of years and my 12X was DMS2 was recently converted to DSMX, which is on my Ultra Flash. what is DMSS? DSMX does frequency hopping similar to Futaba FAST
DSM2 and DSMX are Spektrum and require multiple satellite receivers, checking fades and holds, moving things around - the general fussing that no other 2.4 GHz system requires for a reliable link.
DMSS is JR's native 2.4 GHz system (a bit late) that uses just one receiver and 2 antennas like the other non-Spektrum 2.4 GHz systems out there...
Bob
DSM2 and DSMX allow multiple satellite receivers, the option to check fades and holds, and move things around - features not offered by other 2.4 Ghz systems to optimize a reliable link.
Drinking the kool-aid from a half full glass! LOL
I have Futaba, JR and Spektrum so I am completely unbiased. They all work perfectly....
My own observations....
The JR11X with Spektrum DSMX receivers gives signficantly better range thatn Futaba or Spektrum with Spektrum (From my own actual tests - vids below)
I personally LIKE the satellites, they definately work and improve reception.. Yes, Futaba works PERFECTLY well with just two aerials on the RX but with the Satellites you get 4 aerials and only one of them needs reception for the whole system to work perfectly.. again, from my own personal testing..
The short antennas on the JR and Spektrum RX's and satellites are much easier to mount on 450 size helicopter, with futaba I have to run them forward and they actually extend beyond the landing gear... OK, but I just prefer the Spek / JR set up..
FASST and DSMX are basically on par, slightly different technologically but equally resistant to interference.. (Some have said DSMX is marginally superior but I don't know enough to confirm that...
Yes, both do frequency hopping..
This is avideo that shows the DSMX system is extremely good.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQKoXpj-FeI[/youtube]
A range check with the JR11X, this radio gives me about 30% better range than Futaba or Spektrum
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gl6e25m9WU[/youtube]
But that is a mute point anyway because they all work perfectly over many Kilometers.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVIR0a9s8TE[/youtube]
02-27-2013, 04:38 PM
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: Ron Stahl
Here we go once again!
Here we go once again!
It just amuses me to watch people defend their preferred system even though most have never done any objective side by side testing..
I have done TONSof side by side testing and they are ALLthe SAME!.
If I found any of them to be JUNK,I would be the first to say it.. but they are all GREAT..
JRwins on Range, and looks the coolest
Spektrum wins on TX battery life - 40 Hours between charges and the TX feels the best (in my opinion)
Futaba - my first radio was futaba in 1978 so i just like it too...
My radios below..
Two of each, one for Helis and one for fixed wing, in each Brand.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IEIpitzMdk[/youtube]
02-27-2013, 04:41 PM
#32
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: ons_pk
I am looking for guidance and experience.
I am building CARF Ulta Flash. I have 11x Zero with DMSS and DMS2 modules.
Therefore I have both options.
Should I use JR RG1131B Full Range DMSS Receiver
Or JR / Spektrum receiver DSM(x)
Both with PowerBox.?
Omer
I am looking for guidance and experience.
I am building CARF Ulta Flash. I have 11x Zero with DMSS and DMS2 modules.
Therefore I have both options.
Should I use JR RG1131B Full Range DMSS Receiver
Or JR / Spektrum receiver DSM(x)
Both with PowerBox.?
Omer
it won't make any difference if you use a DSMX Spektrum receiver because the RX will drop down to DSM2 mode to work with your DSM2 module..
DSM2 vs DMSS - I would choose DMSS
DSMX vs DMSS - Basically equal..
02-27-2013, 04:59 PM
#33
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
JR’s DMSS system has 4096 resolution, so I doubt you’ll see Horizon Hobbies put their Spektrum DSMX up against JR’s own system in any test.
What gets me, on Horizon Hobbies website I see nothing about the resolution of JR DMSS system, but on all other distributors/Dealers sites worldwide the info is published.
I guess having 2 proprietary radio brands under one roof makes it hard not to show which they favor.
ORIGINAL: stoneenforcer
ive been flying JR 11x with DSMX on all my jets. Very happy, not sold on the DMSS yet... Funny, i havent seen them preach about how fast the resolution is as they did with dsmx 2048. I called them up and couldnt even get a simple answer. So, that tells me the DMSS resolution isnt as quick/fine.
921x with dual sats, continues to show ZERO fades, ZERO lag ever. I highly doubt the DMSS system can match that.
They've only made the change to DMSS for legal reasons and not for technological advancement reasons, in my opinion and hearsay from parties Ive spoken with.
Futaba has nothing to do with this thread..
ive been flying JR 11x with DSMX on all my jets. Very happy, not sold on the DMSS yet... Funny, i havent seen them preach about how fast the resolution is as they did with dsmx 2048. I called them up and couldnt even get a simple answer. So, that tells me the DMSS resolution isnt as quick/fine.
921x with dual sats, continues to show ZERO fades, ZERO lag ever. I highly doubt the DMSS system can match that.
They've only made the change to DMSS for legal reasons and not for technological advancement reasons, in my opinion and hearsay from parties Ive spoken with.
Futaba has nothing to do with this thread..
02-27-2013, 05:28 PM
#34
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: pitstop000
Interesting, didn't know this.. JR’s DMSS system has 4096 resolution,
Mind you, 99% of us will never feel the difference between 1024 or 2048, let alone 4096...
If the stick moves 4cm from full up to full down elevator, the degree of movement for each resolution - per step is..
1024 - 0.04mm
2048 - 0.02mm
4096 - 0.01mm
I have two identical helicopters and have actually set one up with 1024 Res and the other with 2048 Res on a DX8, I can't tell the difference at all.
But Its progress I guess..
02-27-2013, 06:26 PM
#35
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
4096 across how many channels?
ORIGINAL: pitstop000
JR’s DMSS system has 4096 resolution, so I doubt you’ll see Horizon Hobbies put their Spektrum DSMX up against JR’s own system in any test.
What gets me, on Horizon Hobbies website I see nothing about the resolution of JR DMSS system, but on all other distributors/Dealers sites worldwide the info is published.
I guess having 2 proprietary radio brands under one roof makes it hard not to show which they favor.
ORIGINAL: stoneenforcer
ive been flying JR 11x with DSMX on all my jets. Very happy, not sold on the DMSS yet... Funny, i havent seen them preach about how fast the resolution is as they did with dsmx 2048. I called them up and couldnt even get a simple answer. So, that tells me the DMSS resolution isnt as quick/fine.
921x with dual sats, continues to show ZERO fades, ZERO lag ever. I highly doubt the DMSS system can match that.
They've only made the change to DMSS for legal reasons and not for technological advancement reasons, in my opinion and hearsay from parties Ive spoken with.
Futaba has nothing to do with this thread..
ive been flying JR 11x with DSMX on all my jets. Very happy, not sold on the DMSS yet... Funny, i havent seen them preach about how fast the resolution is as they did with dsmx 2048. I called them up and couldnt even get a simple answer. So, that tells me the DMSS resolution isnt as quick/fine.
921x with dual sats, continues to show ZERO fades, ZERO lag ever. I highly doubt the DMSS system can match that.
They've only made the change to DMSS for legal reasons and not for technological advancement reasons, in my opinion and hearsay from parties Ive spoken with.
Futaba has nothing to do with this thread..
02-27-2013, 07:00 PM
#36
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
Hey Rob, I just got my new JR / cylon XG11 DMSS radio today.I'm charging the TX batt as i type. Looking foward to playing with this bad boy as soon as the frakkin weather clears up.Currently 25 degees and snowing like a bat out hell ,Good day mate. Keith
02-27-2013, 07:07 PM
#37
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
All Channels are 4096 with DMSS on the XG11 or 11XZero with DMSS Module.
I expect the same with the XG14 and also with XG2? Flagship radio when it’s released later this year, per JR Propo’s statement.
ORIGINAL: dubd
4096 across how many channels?
4096 across how many channels?
02-27-2013, 11:35 PM
#39
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
To: Rob2160
Please do not use the word "perfect" since it is misleading. According to the Webster's Dictionary, the word "perfect" means: "complete in every way and having no faults or errors." Unfortunately, there is no such radio system and never will be.
Please do not use the word "perfect" since it is misleading. According to the Webster's Dictionary, the word "perfect" means: "complete in every way and having no faults or errors." Unfortunately, there is no such radio system and never will be.
02-27-2013, 11:57 PM
#40
My Feedback: (2)
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
As soon as the radios went from 72 Mhz to 2.4 Gig, there was sure to be an explosion in channels, resolution, error handling, etc. The amount of data you can pack into a signal is positively influenced by higher frequency, and it jumped big time.
I had a conversation about this with another modeler last year, wondering what was good enough and if any of this even matters any more...? It occurred to me, I wonder what the resolution was in the control system in the 1st Soyuz rocket? We know the 1st space shuttles had little more computational power than a Commodore 64.
Its pretty clear we're in a realm of diminishing returns as far as resolution goes on R/C equipment. I'd bet any number of systems could easily control a jet inches off the deck with the same precision nowadays. As we go forward in terms of product differentiation, resolution may take a far back seat to telemetry, battery life, and other new features.
Kelly
I had a conversation about this with another modeler last year, wondering what was good enough and if any of this even matters any more...? It occurred to me, I wonder what the resolution was in the control system in the 1st Soyuz rocket? We know the 1st space shuttles had little more computational power than a Commodore 64.
Its pretty clear we're in a realm of diminishing returns as far as resolution goes on R/C equipment. I'd bet any number of systems could easily control a jet inches off the deck with the same precision nowadays. As we go forward in terms of product differentiation, resolution may take a far back seat to telemetry, battery life, and other new features.
Kelly
02-28-2013, 05:50 AM
#41
Senior Member
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: Rob2160
Mind you, 99% of us will never feel the difference between 1024 or 2048, let alone 4096...
If the stick moves 4cm from full up to full down elevator, the degree of movement for each resolution - per step is..
1024 - 0.04mm
2048 - 0.02mm
4096 - 0.01mm
I have two identical helicopters and have actually set one up with 1024 Res and the other with 2048 Res on a DX8, I can't tell the difference at all.
But Its progress I guess..
ORIGINAL: pitstop000
Interesting, didn't know this.. JR’s DMSS system has 4096 resolution,
Mind you, 99% of us will never feel the difference between 1024 or 2048, let alone 4096...
If the stick moves 4cm from full up to full down elevator, the degree of movement for each resolution - per step is..
1024 - 0.04mm
2048 - 0.02mm
4096 - 0.01mm
I have two identical helicopters and have actually set one up with 1024 Res and the other with 2048 Res on a DX8, I can't tell the difference at all.
But Its progress I guess..
Time was I flew 200mph+ ducted fans with 512 resolution. I wonder if the servos can even position them selves repeatably at much over 512.
Steven
02-28-2013, 09:57 AM
#42
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
All Channels are 4096 with DMSS on the XG11 or 11XZero with DMSS Module.
I expect the same with the XG14 and also with XG2? Flagship radio when it’s released later this year, per JR Propo’s statement.
I expect the same with the XG14 and also with XG2? Flagship radio when it’s released later this year, per JR Propo’s statement.
Thanks in advance,
02-28-2013, 10:37 AM
#43
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: 5skyhawk172
Hey Rob, I just got my new JR / cylon XG11 DMSS radio today.I'm charging the TX batt as i type. Looking foward to playing with this bad boy as soon as the frakkin weather clears up.Currently 25 degees and snowing like a bat out hell ,Good day mate. Keith
Hey Rob, I just got my new JR / cylon XG11 DMSS radio today.I'm charging the TX batt as i type. Looking foward to playing with this bad boy as soon as the frakkin weather clears up.Currently 25 degees and snowing like a bat out hell ,Good day mate. Keith
02-28-2013, 10:39 AM
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: fragile
To: Rob2160
Please do not use the word "perfect" since it is misleading. According to the Webster's Dictionary, the word "perfect" means: "complete in every way and having no faults or errors." Unfortunately, there is no such radio system and never will be.
To: Rob2160
Please do not use the word "perfect" since it is misleading. According to the Webster's Dictionary, the word "perfect" means: "complete in every way and having no faults or errors." Unfortunately, there is no such radio system and never will be.
This is a 100% true statement, my radios have worked completely as expected, always and have never failed me,
I think it was fair to say they "Work Perfectly"
02-28-2013, 11:32 AM
#45
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
When PCM was first invented, it was a point of discussion whether 128 or 256 positions were needed since the current servos could only do about 128. I originally had wirewound pot linear servos that would do 120 positions. They seemed fine. On the other hand, some of the new BLS servos will step 2048. The pots in the sticks and the servos are the limiting factor.
02-28-2013, 11:39 AM
#46
My Feedback: (2)
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
Just for another perspective on resolution... Last time i used a FADEC ECU, it was running the fuel pump on an 8-bit register, which outputs a max resolution of 256 steps. Now consider, the 1st 40-50 steps might be consumed in just getting the turbine an idle voltage. Then consider that the top end should probably have 20% overhead to keep it from nearing saturation at full power (like an automotive injector). In the end, you're running somewhere around 150 or so steps of resolution from idle to full throttle, and none of us ever complain about how coarse the throttle control is...
Kelly
Kelly
02-28-2013, 11:43 AM
#47
RE: JR DMSS on Jets
Nice, you’re going to like your new radio.
Here is my XG11 DMSS and 11XZero running XG11 software with DMSS.
Both have been doing their job well for me.
Both have been doing their job well for me.
ORIGINAL: 5skyhawk172
I just got my new JR / cylon XG11 DMSS radio today.I'm charging the TX batt as i type. Looking foward to playing with this bad boy as soon as the frakkin weather clears up.Currently 25 degees and snowing like a bat out hell ,Good day mate. Keith
I just got my new JR / cylon XG11 DMSS radio today.I'm charging the TX batt as i type. Looking foward to playing with this bad boy as soon as the frakkin weather clears up.Currently 25 degees and snowing like a bat out hell ,Good day mate. Keith
02-28-2013, 05:44 PM
#48
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: pitstop000
Nice, you’re going to like your new radio.
Here is my XG11 DMSS and 11XZero running XG11 software with DMSS.
Both have been doing their job well for me.
Both have been doing their job well for me.
ORIGINAL: 5skyhawk172
I just got my new JR / cylon XG11 DMSS radio today.I'm charging the TX batt as i type. Looking foward to playing with this bad boy as soon as the frakkin weather clears up.Currently 25 degees and snowing like a bat out hell ,Good day mate. Keith
I just got my new JR / cylon XG11 DMSS radio today.I'm charging the TX batt as i type. Looking foward to playing with this bad boy as soon as the frakkin weather clears up.Currently 25 degees and snowing like a bat out hell ,Good day mate. Keith
03-01-2013, 12:29 AM
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RE: JR DMSS on Jets
ORIGINAL: Four Stroker
When PCM was first invented, it was a point of discussion whether 128 or 256 positions were needed since the current servos could only do about 128. I originally had wirewound pot linear servos that would do 120 positions. They seemed fine. On the other hand, some of the new BLS servos will step 2048. The pots in the sticks and the servos are the limiting factor.
When PCM was first invented, it was a point of discussion whether 128 or 256 positions were needed since the current servos could only do about 128. I originally had wirewound pot linear servos that would do 120 positions. They seemed fine. On the other hand, some of the new BLS servos will step 2048. The pots in the sticks and the servos are the limiting factor.
since we cant be sure what bitcount the TX has internally, (probably 12 bit) in the case of a 2048 step input to a servo, the pot can only do 1024 steps acurately. The mecahnics then reduces that further. And of course the 2048 is over the full range of the data. In practise its more like half that we end up using.
so we will be lucky to get 512 steps at the servo arm accuracy. Yes you may get more steps visually but we are talking accuracy not steps.
Throw on board mixing into the fray and its downhill from there.
So 4096 steps are not so impractical as it first appears.
Andre
