allans

My Feedback: (11)

About 1 month ago I bought a Turnigy 10 XC from Hobby King. It arrived without any kind of connecting cables or a user manual . I checked with Hobby King and got there usual non answer answers. I have the trail of e mails . Non sequitors , irreverent answers and so forth. In net they do not supply a manual or support or advice as far as I can see. Cables maybe.

I looked in the comments section on the bottom of their ad and saw a post describing this charger is really a Revolectrix Cellpro 10 XP.

Further I should go to them (Revolectric) for support , manuals and advice.

This is a list of all the things I can and did get from Revolectric for my charger and cannot get ( even for a price) from Hobby King.

1) Cables and Connectors ( Maybe)
2) A Clear Helpful User Manual or any kind of Manual.
3) Firmwear updates and new copies of the old one if I need one.
4) Phone support . I have used this and it is excellent.
5) I company with a long history of building High Tech , Quality products and a reputation in this field earned and deserved.

I am upset for two reason .

1) I am told that Revolectric ( FMA) designed this charger and did the engineering for its manufacture.

2) HK has gotten some , re painted them , and sold under a different name . Named close enough to realize the relationship with the original product . This is not as. as I am told, illegal.
But in my mind it is un ethical.

Selling a product that is dup (And rebadged) of another manufacturer and then expecting the customer to use the original designer's free support.

This bothers me . I think the products I get from Revoletric have the cost of the product design and support included in the price of their product. HK does not. So I think I am stealing. Or at least getting support under false pretenses. ( Lying)

The Turnigy Charger works well. But every time I look at it I feel like I am pulling fast one , by using the intellectual property of Revolectric with out paying for it.

I wonder if HK did, at least for the design of the product?

Some vendors charge more and provide EXCELLENT support- we all know who they are . And for me the extra cost is worth it. Horizon, Valley View , DA, Aeroworks, Futaba . We all know the list and there are lots more.

And to my mind it is worth it and it is a choice each of us makes.

But this situation is different . The HK price , in this case is less, but there is no support and they - HK - through a post in their comments section, want me to go to the original designer to get ( STEAL) support.

I cannot support or condone this kind of business practice. Maybe I am unique. Maybe not.

I am putting the Turngy up for sale and buying the same thing from Revoletric ( at the best price I can find).

Anybody have any thoughts?

keyman

My Feedback: (22)

I'm pretty sure FMA made some of the HK chargers or gave permission to manufacture them, I'm not sure about that 1 though, have you tried clicking on the files tab on the page on that charger? I see manuals listed there.

allans

My Feedback: (11)

I do not see afiles tab on the page you described - can you give more info pls?

keyman

My Feedback: (22)

Is this your charger?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...e_Charger.html

On that page you will see tabs for discussion, reviews, videos, files, click on the files tab, there you will see,

Customer files
10XP User Guide 523kb
Turnigy 10XC User Manual 313kb
Turnigy 10XC Firmware Update Utility 14kb

Also if you are able to do a google search there seems to be alot about these chargers including a video how to use it.

I copied this from another site from Tim Marks the president of FMA about a different charger that HK sells.

Hi:
The Turnigy Fatboy 8 is a charger designed by FMA under a private label agreement with Hobby King. It is manufactured by FMA's partner, Leo Industries, in the same factory in Singapore as our Cellpro PowerLab 8. The Fatboy 8 is not supported by or compatible with the current REVO PL8 charge control software. It will have a Firmware Update Utility available, but that is all at this time. It is not eligible for warranty/repair service or phone support from FMA in the U.S. All warranty, service and support for the Fatboy 8 must go through the distributor, Hobby King as per our agreement.

Tim Marks

I agree that when it comes to a $100 charger and you can afford it go with a USA supported charger, I own a couple of the Accucel 6 chargers and really like them for $23, but I don't expect any support for it.

Please let me know when it is up for sale, It looks like a real nice charger and I may be interested in it.

allans

My Feedback: (11)

I see what you have described.

I am not sure this help or hurts. It shows Cellpro 10 xp manuals to be used with The Turnigy Charger. I tried to find language such as " used by permission of the Revoletric Company "- but did not.

Also why was the re badging done ? Why not just sell it as a Cellpro ? That name carries some history , credibility and good will.

Many people sell Cellpro products .

Maybe there is an issue with selling the Turnigy Charger and including the Cellpro Manual within the box , appearing the part of the transaction?

So giving it away as Cellpro does may not cause an issue.

I am just uncomfortable with the intellectual property issues that "appear" to be here .

If you can state , that there are no concerns and show why - I would appreciate it.

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Most everything H/K sells is made in China for a dozen different labels. If you do a little research, you will find that a lot of chargers sold by Chinese, European, and US companys, are are all the same, just rebadged for the reseller. Same with motors, esc, etc.

keyman

My Feedback: (22)

Customers are able to upload manuals to help out modelers, I'm guessing 1 of them uploaded the XP manual, there is a Turnigy 10XC User Manual and a Turnigy 10XC Firmware Update Utility listed.

As stated on their website
Note: Balancing boards are sold separately. Please see related products below. Two adapter boards for your brand of battery will be required for 10s charging. Are you upset you did not read that when you bought it?, Note is in bold letters its kind of hard to miss?

I can not find anything about HK repainting them? where is that posted? are they also changing the charging circuit as the cellpro XP is 15A and the turnigy 10XC is 10A?

I can not state why Leo Industries/FMA partner made chargers for HK, you would have to call and ask them?

I would like to know why some charger manufactures charge so much for repairs?

Is there something wrong with your cellpro 10s you posted about last month?

When you researched it before you bought what about it made you purchase it?

Ok just so were clear.

You have purchased from HK before and were not happy in the past but decided to purchase a $130 charger from them?

You have purchased from FMA before and are happy with them but decided to purchase a charger from HK and are happy with it but do not want any of us to order from HK then?

You are upset modelers are able to discuss or leave comments or download manuals or pics at HK?

quote
Some vendors charge more and provide EXCELLENT support- we all know who they are . And for me the extra cost is worth it. Horizon, Valley View , DA, Aeroworks, Futaba . We all know the list and there are lots more.

So its ok for you to purchase where ever you want but for the rest of us we have to purchase where you tell us?

quote
And to my mind it is worth it and it is a choice each of us makes.

Once again, It is ok for you to purchase where ever you want but for the rest of us we have to purchase where you tell us?

quote
I cannot support or condone this kind of business practice. Maybe I am unique. Maybe not.
No offense but why did you purchase it?, did you not read any of the discription/discussions/comments and just looked at it and hit the add to cart tab or bought it?

quote
Further I should go to them (Revolectric) for support , manuals and advice.
I do not see any post in the discussion or comments that says this? where is that posted?

I still do not understand why you are upset with this?
1) I am told that Revolectric ( FMA) designed this charger and did the engineering for its manufacture.

Why are you upset who designed it?

allans

My Feedback: (11)

I am the OP. In net to answer all of the questions posted. I am uncomfortable buying an FMA product rebadged to Turnigy if this is done without consent of FMA.

No one , so far has said, that there is agreement between the two parties( FMA and HK). Both WEB sites are silent on the topic.

If anyone has a definitive answer pls post it or direct us to it.

I have no problem buying proprietary HK products if they are the best available at a competitive price.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I completely understand your issue. When I was still kind of new in the hobby, I found an airplane that I liked for $200 from Nitroplanes. It was apparently a 'copy' of a $600 airplane of what I thought was a larger, high-end (pricey) company. I bought the $200 plane.

I later found out that the 'copy' was basically the same airplane unethically taken and reproduced with different covering. Then I learned the 'high end, pricey' company was a small firm of people who are passionate about model airplanes and trying to design the best products at reasonable prices.

I was missing hardware, and contacted the parent company to try to purchase it. They offered to give it to me for free, but I declined. I was too embarrassed to say why.

When I learned what really happened, I felt terrible. I still do. I have never felt 'good' about this airplane, and it has never even felt like a great flying airplane, like the parent should have been. The quality control was probably way down, the covering is crap, it was missing lots of hardware, and the hardware was sub-par.

Lately I have been trying to do what I believe is the right thing, ethically. I am trying to support places like Nitroplanes and Hobby King less and less, and support the local people who are doing this out of their love of the hobby.

I still have the airplane, and I still fly it. Right now it's the only thing I have that flies (only have a small number of planes). It doesn't fly well, it doesn't feel great flying it, but it gets me out to the field and gets me practicing.

It is not always easy, like when batteries (or chargers, etc) are 1/2 the cost at Hobby King. But I know that with the higher cost comes product support, and some of the money goes to good people to support their lives and families.

Things that do not require lots of technology, like carbon fiber for example, I will still get from the Chinese hobby shops. The quality may be less, I know nothing about the carbon or the resins, but for my purposes it works just fine. For things like motors, ESC's, batteries, etc, I choose to invest in well known, properly supported goods.

countilaw

Maybe that's one of the ways Hobby King sells their stuff so cheap. They don't bother including a manual, warranty, needed cords or customer service because that costs money. It's just a rip off company that preys on the uneducated buyer. When dealing with them you really need to read the fine print and don't buy anything of real expense.

Frank

OldRookie

My Feedback: (13)

If you purchase a Cellpro PL6 or PL8, you will not receive a manual with your charger.
You are directed to their web site to download a PDF copy for your use. It is up to you if you want to print it out.

Greg

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

True,,
I didn't get one with my Cellpro Multi 4 either, which I bought direct from FMA. The adaptor cables needed to be purchased separately too.

It was my understanding that many companies make the same charger,, FMA has licenced the "Firmware" to them,, So product quality can still vary.

Good luck

jester_s1

There are two common reasons why a company would rebrand an established product. The first is that the company is trying to build its own brand so that it can get established customers that buy only from them. The idea is that you are at the field or you write a review and say, "The Turnigy 10XC is a great charger!" Then other want one too, and the only place they can get it is Hobby King. The other reason is if the manufacturer wants to protect their brand that has a good reputation and not let a bargain basement company sell their product without the added value of support or accessories. Letting them license the design or buy non-labeled versions of it lets the original company (FMA) make money by selling their chargers but not have the problem of people complaining about the lack of support from Hobby King or missing parts and such. You may remember back in the '80's IBM entered into a licensing agreement with Microsoft for their DOS program, then 100 other manufacturers started making the same computers with the same parts. "IBM compatible" was the buzzword then, and the cheaper prices that competitors were charging put IBM out of the PC market that they had originally created. Every company since has learned the value of protecting their brands from others cutting corners and under pricing the original.

countilaw

The other reason a company would allow another company to sell their product under a rebranded name is do to new technology. The original company has developed new technologe or an up dated product. They will then rebrand the old stuff under other companies.

EK Logitrol did this for years. When they came out with a better radio, they would sell companies like Hobby Lobby the older designs in a different color case. Hobby Lobby would sell them as thier brand at a cheaper price. It's not a bad idea, but what is a bad idea is the Chinese companies will buy a product, reverse engineer it, and then sell it as their own product at a much cheaper price. Hobby King fits this category companies.

Frank