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Three Axis Stabilizer

Old 03-16-2013, 01:22 PM
  #26  
Tony Iannucelli
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

I have the Horizon version in a quad copter. Works fairly well, but not perfect. It really doesn't take away from any fun I get flying the thing. I've used several of the orange stabilizers from Hong Kong, most recently in a Phoenix two-meter electric sailplane. Since you can control the gain on each axis, it adds some 'calmness' to the plane in the wind. You still need to be on the sticks. I have also flown the Eagle Tree which is best of the lot. It helps both in 2D and 3D, but does take some time to get it to react the way you want it. All are advances in Radio Control. I don't think they take away from the fun, just add to it. I remember trying to learn to fly helicopters decades ago without effective gyros. Results were awful at best. Any help these devices give to new fliers should be recognized as advancement in the hobby. I'm still waiting for one that can land my warbirds without nicking up the landing gear every fourth flight..... not counting the nicks in my ego.
Old 03-16-2013, 02:09 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

An old 75 yr old birdbrain here too, but you younger guy keep me thinking young My first heli was around 1970 and was just about impossible to fly. Had the 35 sized motor mounted on top of the rotor blades with the prop going one way and the torque from the motor driving the rotor blade the opposite way. Best advancement for helis was the gyro for the tail rotor. Just a little food for thought. Who has not had issues trying to keep a big expensive warbird lined up with the runway when you start applying throttle.?? This gyro on the rudder would take that worry away.
Old 03-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: Flypaper 2

An old 75 yr old birdbrain here too, but you younger guy keep me thinking young My first heli was around 1957 and was just about impossible to fly. Had the 35 sized motor mounted on top of the rotor blades with the prop going one way and the torque from the motor driving the rotor blade the opposite way. Best advancement for helis was the gyro for the tail rotor. Just a little food for thought. Who has not had issues trying to keep a big expensive warbird lined up with the runway when you start applying throttle.?? This gyro on the rudder would take that worry away.
I started off flying helicopter with a rate gyro however you still had to fly the helicopter. Our hobby is turning into a push button video game.
Old 03-16-2013, 03:25 PM
  #29  
Tony Iannucelli
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

Hi Flycatch. The hobby might be evolving as you say, but it still beats the heck out of golf. Now that's a ridiculous game. First time I played, I shot an 81. Then they told me there were 9 more holes....

Flypaper... you had the money to buy a Dubro Whirlybird! Wow. I saw that on the cover of RCModeler, read how Don Dewey was "flying it" around on a piece of plywood with casters on it in a Sierra Madre parking lot .... fell for it hook, line, and sinker of course, like everything else back in the 60s and 70s. Look at the progress we've made since then.

My biggest fear is that the hobby is evolving into toys.... little foamies.... ARF and BNF only.... still fun, not complaining, but not your father's hobby as they say. I'm 70 now, still fly OK, but I see and feel any skills I had deteriorating. Pretty soon I'll be flying the little toys too.... all I will be able to manage. Still great though. Nothing beats R/C.
Old 03-16-2013, 04:04 PM
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: Tony Iannucelli

Hi Flycatch. The hobby might be evolving as you say, but it still beats the heck out of golf. Now that's a ridiculous game. First time I played, I shot an 81. Then they told me there were 9 more holes....

Flypaper... you had the money to buy a Dubro Whirlybird! Wow. I saw that on the cover of RCModeler, read how Don Dewey was ''flying it'' around on a piece of plywood with casters on it in a Sierra Madre parking lot .... fell for it hook, line, and sinker of course, like everything else back in the 60s and 70s. Look at the progress we've made since then.

My biggest fear is that the hobby is evolving into toys.... little foamies.... ARF and BNF only.... still fun, not complaining, but not your father's hobby as they say. I'm 70 now, still fly OK, but I see and feel any skills I had deteriorating. Pretty soon I'll be flying the little toys too.... all I will be able to manage. Still great though. Nothing beats R/C.
It makes me happy that you bring the word toy into the equation. I had a young fellow approach this week while I was flying my Raptor. He told me his dad just purchased him a helicopter at WalMart. He than went on to say that his helicopter and mine didn't look the same. I explained to him this was a machine and his was a toy. The next question was how much does a helicopter like mine cost. I told him and he wandered off. I was that young man a long time ago.
Old 03-16-2013, 07:23 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

I just got the one tha HK sells, version 2. Got a couple of foamies to try it in. Not sure which one yet. Anyone use it on a gasser?
Baracuda, was looking for your review. Could you post a link please?
Old 03-16-2013, 08:36 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: Tony Iannucelli

but it still beats the heck out of golf. Now that's a ridiculous game. First time I played, I shot an 81. Then they told me there were 9 more holes....
Phunny!!heck 81 on 9 holes is a heck of lot better than 81 on1 hole. That's what I thot you were gonna say, 81 on first hole. At the typical level of play there's no practical reason to keep a score. You know when you hit it well.
Golf ROCKS baby.....next to RC, it's the next best
Old 03-17-2013, 07:18 AM
  #33  
rmh
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

Anyboy else have an eyesight problem- ?
The models I have using the AS3X systems are what the eye doctor ordered .
Why?
We fly RC by observing then correcting
having flown pattern/ IMAC/ Quicky - 40 pounders and 17 gram stuf - -the system remains the same - look correct as needed . Along come macular degeneration and the nice clear image out ther got all fuzzy
the result?
I can't see the minute corrections needed .
I have four models now using the 635 rx -
The instant difference is that I can have that little time difference needed to alter the flight path as desired.
Having thrown these models to friends who are good /very good/ world class aerobatic flyers etc., - I get varying feedback

One: concern that this technology will find it's way into competition models - don't blame em-
The solid feedback- the system works - extremely well and can be applied to any vibration free design.
Doesit make you a better flyer
It CAN help- properly applied
But like the guy who asked the doc if his new hand would make him into a great pianist - you know the joke.
Old 03-17-2013, 10:28 AM
  #34  
dirtybird
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: rmh

Anyboy else have an eyesight problem- ?
The models I have using the AS3X systems are what the eye doctor ordered .
Why?
We fly RC by observing then correcting
having flown pattern/ IMAC/ Quicky - 40 pounders and 17 gram stuf - -the system remains the same - look correct as needed . Along come macular degeneration and the nice clear image out ther got all fuzzy
the result?
I can't see the minute corrections needed .
I have four models now using the 635 rx -
The instant difference is that I can have that little time difference needed to alter the flight path as desired.
Having thrown these models to friends who are good /very good/ world class aerobatic flyers etc., - I get varying feedback

One: concern that this technology will find it's way into competition models - don't blame em-
The solid feedback- the system works - extremely well and can be applied to any vibration free design.
Doesit make you a better flyer
It CAN help- properly applied
But like the guy who asked the doc if his new hand would make him into a great pianist - you know the joke.
Have you tried it on a gas powered model?
Old 03-17-2013, 11:10 AM
  #35  
rmh
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

No - sold em all -
Old 03-17-2013, 12:54 PM
  #36  
larryak
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

They are fun to mess with, I reviewed the Eagle Tree for Fly RC

It would make my 3D Hobby Shop EBT knife edge or hover hands off, I dont recall it making anything difficult. It would also snap it upright straight and level simply by letting go of the sticks from any orientation I could get it into.
So what does your transmitter need you for? Glad you like it BH but I just cant get any satisfaction watching a "Switch" fly my airplane.
Old 03-17-2013, 01:01 PM
  #37  
jester_s1
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

You guys have brought up an application that I hadn't thought of before- helping pilots with vision issues still be able to do the hobby. Now that's a good application of a new technology. I still don't see the value for beginners because beginners really just need to learn how to fly their planes (it ain't that hard to buzz around the field in a trainer and land somewhere near the runway), but for pilots who have been flying a while and still want to get out to the field I can see it. To me, a big part of the fun is learning the quirks of a particular plane and doing the tuning to make it fly right. It was a genuine source of pride the first time I did a straight takeoff in my Cub, the first time did a proper stall turn, every time I do a greaser landing in gusty wind, and so on. Had I used a stability system I would never have built any of those skills myself so I wouldn't value them now.
Old 03-17-2013, 01:29 PM
  #38  
dirtybird
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

Full scale pilots have had autopilots for years. Some of them still learn to do all of those things. The ones that want to anyway.
Old 03-17-2013, 02:00 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

Technology is great ! But I think more than one of us got into this hobby because we like doing things the hard way ! hahahah

That being said, if it meant flying or not I would probably use them. Some of my friends don't agree with me, but I will probably find a good pilot to fly for me if I no longer can ! It will give me more time to admire the flybys !

I will probably always have a couple planes half built whether I can see to fly or not.
Old 03-17-2013, 02:04 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

ORIGINAL: larryak
"So what does your transmitter need you for? Glad you like it BH but I just cant get any satisfaction watching a ''Switch'' fly my airplane." ...larryak
[/quote]


Larry,

I don't think you understand what they do. It is funny, because they do exactly the opposite of what you are inferring. They provide stability, not maneuverability. Just like the computer does on an F-16, which is inherently unstable - the computer provides stability - the pilot then performs the maneuvers.

Kurt
Old 03-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #41  
rmh
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

To put things straight the AS3X by Spektrum does NOT fly your plane for you
it uses accelerometers which provide a counterforce to any force (gusts?) trying to cause a change in last position assigned by YOU, to model attitude/position direction.
It does not fight you - it does not take over - - it just holds the line till YOU assign a change .
I have four models using the system - three wildly aerobatic capable and a fourth, pattern capable it is the best thing since sliced bread for the vision issiue I have .
just gives me that little assist inkeeping on line long enough for me to decide exactly th model position'attitude .
I still have Seniorita, Senior -Fun Cub - Bucker Jungmann (old TOC model) a big Dalotel etc.,-so I have experience flying many types (and many contests) and the AS3X simply makes the "reflexes -based on visual feedback much like I had before the eyesight went bonkers .
Before you judge this system- fly one
Old 03-17-2013, 03:50 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

I

I've seen these stabilizing gyros in use at our field. They do what they are supposed to for straight level flight stability or for holding other attitudes when flipped to the 3D mode. Supposedly it will recover to normal level flight when flipped from 3D to 2D mode and this seems to work. The drawback I have notices happens when landing. It seems to hold attitude or even cause a pitch up as the model slows. To counteract this requires down elevator during the flair to land. Totally counter to what normally is required. It took my buddy a few landings to learn this and cost him some repairs. This may be obvious to others but it's probably best to turn stabilization off at some point prior to the flare for landing.

Old 03-17-2013, 05:50 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: Bozarth

ORIGINAL: larryak
"So what does your transmitter need you for? Glad you like it BH but I just cant get any satisfaction watching a ''Switch'' fly my airplane." ...larryak

Larry,

I don't think you understand what they do. It is funny, because they do exactly the opposite of what you are inferring. They provide stability, not maneuverability. Just like the computer does on an F-16, which is inherently unstable - the computer provides stability - the pilot then performs the maneuvers.

Kurt
[/quote]
Kurt. Thank you for your kind response but respectfully I have to disagree with most of what you stated. I am a retired helicopter and airplane pilot. I actually understand quite a bit about stability systems. Please read post # 4 where Barracudahockey states from experience that the 3 axis system "would make my 3D Hobbyshop EBT knife edge or hover hands off. It would also snap it upright etc etc." "Hands off" means the pilot does not have to fly /manuver anything. Everything is being handeled by the flick of a "Switch". I am not trying to take anything away from the hobby or you as a respected member of the community. In fact I look forward to your comments. As for me , I get the most satisfaction out of hand flying my aircraft. Thank you for respecting my opinion. Larry
Old 03-17-2013, 06:02 PM
  #44  
Bozarth
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: larryak


ORIGINAL: Bozarth

ORIGINAL: larryak
''So what does your transmitter need you for? Glad you like it BH but I just cant get any satisfaction watching a ''Switch'' fly my airplane.'' ...larryak

Larry,

I don't think you understand what they do. It is funny, because they do exactly the opposite of what you are inferring. They provide stability, not maneuverability. Just like the computer does on an F-16, which is inherently unstable - the computer provides stability - the pilot then performs the maneuvers.

Kurt
Kurt. Thank you for your kind response but respectfully I have to disagree with most of what you stated. I am a retired helicopter and airplane pilot. I actually understand quite a bit about stability systems. Please read post # 4 where Barracudahockey states from experience that the 3 axis system ''would make my 3D Hobbyshop EBT knife edge or hover hands off. It would also snap it upright etc etc.'' ''Hands off'' means the pilot does not have to fly /manuver anything. Everything is being handeled by the flick of a ''Switch''. I am not trying to take anything away from the hobby or you as a respected member of the community. In fact I look forward to your comments. As for me , I get the most satisfaction out of hand flying my aircraft. Thank you for respecting my opinion. Larry
[/quote]

Hi Larry,

Then you will understand that there is no closed loop flight control system with these little 3-axis circuit boards - only accelerometers.

Kurt
Old 03-17-2013, 06:03 PM
  #45  
rmh
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

ORIGINAL: I_Fly

I

I've seen these stabilizing gyros in use at our field. They do what they are supposed to for straight level flight stability or for holding other attitudes when flipped to the 3D mode. Supposedly it will recover to normal level flight when flipped from 3D to 2D mode and this seems to work. The drawback I have notices happens when landing. It seems to hold attitude or even cause a pitch up as the model slows. To counteract this requires down elevator during the flair to land. Totally counter to what normally is required. It took my buddy a few landings to learn this and cost him some repairs. This may be obvious to others but it's probably best to turn stabilization off at some point prior to the flare for landing.

No offence intended but the AS3X in the 635 rx does not work as you describe. the default as used in the VisionAire or in any other model -set to defaults works as follows
It has two rates of throw/compensation/correction
the 3D is the high throw high gain (compensation
the second rate (selected using the retract switch) has very low elevator throw and slightly lessened aileron throw with correspondingly lower gain.
That's it. You can switch between the two as desired whilst flying
It NEVER does a recovery to level flight from some other attitude..
It does try to hold the model in last attitude YOU select - so a landing simply remains level unless you move the attitude deliberately. As I noted - I have four of em - they all work the same way- all make all maneuvers including landings nicer.
My tiny 12 ounce Zoom is now a breeze to land in grass - No sudden stall
Old 03-17-2013, 06:04 PM
  #46  
Bozarth
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

rmh - I think we are responding in parallel!

Kurt
Old 03-17-2013, 06:08 PM
  #47  
rmh
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer


ORIGINAL: Bozarth

rmh - I think we are responding in parallel!

Kurt
Yeh - There is and will continue to be confusion with the system- just like the first Spectrum/DSM2 systems !
Old 03-17-2013, 08:02 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

There is one thing for sure, this new technology has added a whole new subject for much debate at the field, bench, and here online . things seldom get boring in this hobby.. And that suits me fine
Old 03-18-2013, 07:30 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

I dont have the time or patience to quote everyone so here's my general thoughts on the matters brought up.

1. I doubt the review is online, it was done for Fly RC magazine and appeared about 2 issues ago (if you're really determined to track it down I can see if I can find the exact issue), there's also a non-technical version thats going to be in the soon to be released "beginners issue". I also did an article on the FMA Co Pilot II for the same two issues.

2. Other than flybarless helis that actually do need them, I had never messed with an auto pilot or 3 axis stab in a fixed wing before. As a reviewer I kept an open mind and honestly wrote about what I thought. It was neat to mess with, they will help a lot of people, but neither are something I would go and buy.

3. I'm more than capable of flying knife edge or hovering without one

The CPII was cool in that it had a baro metric altimiter function that you could set to auto recover at 50 feet. Do any aerobatics or 3D you wanted above that, at 50 feet it did an auto recovery (airplane or heli), so if you wanted to learn 3D on a heli but were scared to crash, this is a good training tool.

Bottom line, this is a hobby, do what you enjoy. I like to fly, I dont like to build sticks, so I buy ARF's. I'm certainly capable of it, I have an old 80's glider kit that I'm slowly and meticulously building. In the big scheme of things, as long as you're having fun thats what it's all about, if you have fun tinkering with electronics you'll love these things.
Old 03-18-2013, 08:12 AM
  #50  
rmh
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Default RE: Three Axis Stabilizer

It's all for fun-
My own experiences with the 635 are based on my experience in aerobatic design and learning how to do th various tricks reqd- this also includess tiny one ounce aerobats - learning how each type responds to attempts to hover-tumble- slide - whatever- made my experiences with the AS3x setup very interesting -to me
In a nutshell-it simply attempts to hold any postion till deliberate stick commands override the accelerometer feedbacks.
Done right - the result is seamless - no surprises just a smoothness impossible to duplicate unless you can see and correct in milliseconds.
Hint for the hard core 3Dflyer - setup the model such that it is very neutral( tailheavy by some standards)
The system keeps the model flying smoothly yet allows for instant reversals etc..in any direction- great fun!
You really need the best servos and full throw / high gain to maximize the fast AS3X response

Just as good heli setups require - sloppy stuf won't work It does NOT fly the model

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