tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

Yep, it is tough to fly without going 3D

Reindeer

My Feedback: (25)

The problem is that AMA membership is no guarantee that the pilot in question will act in a responsible manner (I am assuming an implied tie-in to defend AMA sanctioned clubs/events/site here... correct me if I am mistaken). Nor is there any guarantee that they are going to act in anyone's best interests.

We had a small group of flyers in the area, all of which were AMA members. They managed to get themselves kicked out of five flying locations including a rather nice gymnasium because they were so careless and disrespectful of others... problem is that it ruined it for the rest of us. When I say careless, they were hitting boats and cars with their planes and then would run off and not inform the owner of what happened, buzz the local Coast Guard control tower, crashed into one of the hangars at our local airport and left a hole in the door, burn holes in the grass with their fuel models, giving the caretakers of these sites a bad attitude, and not follow any kind of safety rules or form a flight line. It finally came to a head when this group was flying at a local park and nearly hit a bystander that was walking through the area (No, it wasn't a designated flying area either).

This incident promptly brought about a meeting of our local Chamber of Commerce (representing local businesses and nearby residents who were getting ticked off with these guys) and the Port Authority (who was in charge of the park in question), plus a few other concerned parties to discuss whether or not flying models should be allowed in the area. It also prompted a s***storm of letter writing and a couple of articles in our local newspaper. The outcome unfortunately wasn't a happy one. Flying was only allowed in that area with the purchase of a daily permit per person ($3), and required following a strict set of rules including being kicked off the field at any time for any reason.

The whole mess prompted me to write a letter to the newspaper, and without naming names, I essentially suggested that when people (in this case R/C pilots) who decide to act in an irresponsible manner ruin the fun and privileges for the rest of us. This of course made me instant enemies with this group of flyers, and they tried to get me kicked out of the local club. When that failed, the "leader" of this group decided to quit... but realizing that was going to cut him off from perhaps the last field he was allowed to fly on, he tried to rejoin. The rest of the club having had enough of this clown blackballed him, so of course he went running off to the AMA to complain and saying he was being discriminated against. The AMA came back and initially were going to side with this guy. What basically saved our club's charter was that he had written a letter stating that he had quit the first time and that his decision to do so stood.

The ironic part (You could even say the punchline) is that this group of about 5 flyers were at or near retirement age and really should have known better. Even though this incident happened several years ago, as a club we are STILL dealing with the fallout and hard feelings this mess generated.

While I still stand by what I said earlier about the AMA "getting with the times" and clubs as a whole should do what they can to embrace new people, your point about "guys who don't think there should be ANY rules besides "Just Have Fun"" is definitely taken :-)

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Was littlecrank one these guys with that 3D stuff? [X(]

Crank, hope you liked my question/humor. Jokes aside, Reindeer as I was reading through your post I kept thinking this was about a bunch you hoodlem kids and when I read that they were at or near retirement age it surprised and shocked me. What bunch of nitwits and immature knuckleheads. The fallout can certainly be felt years later and it can take some time to recoop from this type of thing.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

Funny, funny, funny... I've been blamed for a lot worse though...

FireSlash

As someone who has been flying literally days, I feel I should chime in a bit on the subject since my perspective is still fresh.

First, there are two fields in my area, which is pretty great. However, one of them requires you to pass a proficiency test with their trainer before they'll let you fly there, which basically meant as a new pilot I was locked out. Luckily they're also the further of the two fields (despite being nicer). The closer field is more relaxed but they still listed AMA membership as a requirement.

I ended up getting an AMA license because from what I could tell, I had to. I still don't really know the benefits beyond some level of insurance that I don't feel I'm going to need any time soon (I can barely keep my foamies in the air long enough for it to matter even if I WANTED to hit someone or something), and if there's some level of additional benefit then I have no idea.

I was attracted to this hobby via videos from channels like Flitetest, Xjet, and KapteinKUK. I see people having lots of fun in their videos and that makes me want to learn to fly. There's a great level of community in their groups, and everyone is always having a good time, even if they just tanked a $300+ plane.

On the other hand, all I get from the AMA is a giant list of rules and regulations that I honestly don't care about, and don't apply to me. Nothing about the AMA has helped me get better at flying, has made me a better pilot, or helped me have more fun. As far as I'm concerned, the AMA is just a tax on flying.

I'll pay them because I'm a responsible person and while nobody has checked, my field requires it. But if they didn't, I wouldn't be a member.

I'm sure someone will chime in here and tell me what other great benefits there are to the AMA, but I shouldn't have to post in a forum to find out.

jessiej

AMA membership guarantees responsibile flying in the same waw a driver's license guarantees responsible driving.

jess

fireman350

Here is the real question who here would be an AMA member if it wasn't required at their choosen field I beet a good majority fall in the category, the AMA is nothing more valuable to them than a movie ticket, they don't care about the magazine they don't care about the secondary insurance, they just want a place to fly and the AMA is their ticket in. the AMA would be smart to put the old fogeys in the closet for 1 saturday a month and host a tune and fly sesion open to the public and do something useful vs just excluding people from the fields face it if you want people to leartn good flying habbits you have to teach them how are you going to teach them if you tell them to turn around at the gate, they already have the plane, they ARE going to fly it if not at your field at least under some supervision and training then they will go to a park at try to learn themselves and if they hurt some one there the AMA shares in that responsibilty they came for help the club turned them away because they didnt have the little card that said they were good enough to be AMA .

MrGoodwreck

Guilty,

As a kid I liked the magazine, and the status of a card/ AMA number. I have kept it for all of these years, but honestly...

I have no other use for them other then when I goto the local field, they require membership. ( I dont even need to goto the field other then to hang out with friends, because I live on several acres, and can fly on my own land).

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Crankshaft,

It was the group of 3d that was excluded from the FunFly. Not warbirds, free flight, string flyers ect. Why exclude anyone? We all have the same love of flying.

It's interesting that clubs like listed above need to have monthly meetings to cause issues with each other, deal with landlords, and so on.

Now our club has a different attude about things I guess. We have a good membership and we still keep our membership at $25 a year. We are blessed. We need no oversite from the grumpy old men as it was said. We all get along like a group of brothers. Warbirds, gliders, trainers, sport, foamies and yes 3D all flys together with no issues.

You have to ask yourself one question. Would you want to fly at a AMA club where everyone get along or a club that creats problem with their membership? That cause people to leave the AMA. People fly to have fun, not to have control freaks grip at them.

Me I want to fly with a group that flys for the fun of it. A group that welcomes all. A group that needs no lists of anything. If someone needs help we help. If we are asked to test fly a new plane, we do that. If the field needs mowed, we mow it, if there are some trash left at the gate, we clean it. Simple.

It's a shame there are clubs out there that cause people to leave the hobby.

Crash99

Sent from ipad

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Could you furnish a list of all [must be talking about 100's if not 1000's of folks] who have left the AMA because they couldn't fly 3D at a warbird fly-in or because their club has grumpy old men in it...?
Our local club at it's peak reaches 100 members..some years it dwindles below that. There have never been ANY guys who quit the hobby on account of this club that I'm aware of. There are those who quit due to the economy, family issues, poor health, boredom, etc....but not because of any problems with grumpy old men. There HAVE been some guys who quit the club or who were asked to leave over personal issues. Only in LA LA LADY GAGA LAND can you expect there to NEVER be any conflicts in a 100 man club.
Only a total wuss would use that as a reason for giving up The HOBBY, though....how lame.

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

I hear you! Whats so dang funny, those that are unaware of the problem are usually the problem...

tailskid

My Feedback: (34)

People vote with their feet.....they quietly leave the sport (and AMA) for a variety of reasons. I personally know of one individual who drove more newbies off than I could count! Thank goodness his 'rein' only lasted 15 years....

jessiej

I haven't flown at a field that required AMA membership for several years now, as I fly mostly on my own land. I am, however a member of the AMA. I enjoy the magazine and am interested in all fields of model aviation, not just RC. I believe that the AMA also has value in that can provide some connection/communication with various governmental bodies.

I am a member of the AMA (motorcyclists) and NRA for similar reasons.

jess

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It takes a burning desire to want to take part in this sport and hobby..for the long haul....
to be able to weather all of the challenges, the dissappointments, the set backs, the failures and to be internally driven enough to keep coming back for more.
I'm talking about those of us who have this in our blood. There was no single individual who would have been capable of driving me away.
If your resolve to do this sport is so weak and fragile..then you're better off sticking with the dime store gliders and kites anyway. Seriously.
Show me someone who allowed himself to be driven from this sport by some grouchy old man and I'll show you someone who probably has a garage full of other sporting and exercise equipment that he was all "hot" to get into but who has a book full of excuses for why most of that stuff never saw the light of day.
Both Ebay and Craigslist are chock full of barely used sports equipment being sold by people like this every day..

fireman350

Its not that one individual is running anyone from the sport its one or a few individuals at AMA clubs that are running people away from the clubs and the AMA I am on of them I used to be AMA I will never be again I also know 7 other guys in the same boat as me I have always been a safe pilot never once getting so much as a warning but aftyer I changed from nitro to lipo my planes were suddenly toys and not good enough for some of the balsa snobs. The seven of us now own 2 of the best fields in th state and we will not tolerate any mention of the AMA on our properties will an AMA member ever stop the desire to fly in my heart, no but I will never support the AMA again this is how one club member can kill the AMA 1 potential pilot at a time image this one bad apple turns away 1 potential pilot at every wednesday or saturday club open flight how many pilots has that member turned away at the end of the year from the AMA ? now those pilots that have been turned away will talk to other friends and get them into flying as well if those guys even have 1 other friend they tell "you don't want to go to that club they are jerks they have this ama thing that says I can't fly there so we will fly at the park" how many people did the AMA membership just loose now? why isn't the AMA growing ? there is your answer as an AMA member you can't look at just your club You have too look at all of the other AMA clubs as well they reflect on you as well, before you point the finger at all of these unsafe pilots on youtube and scream how they are killing the hobby ask yourself how many of these guys have gone to an AMA field looking for guidance only to excluded or laughed at because they only have a $50 dollar model that wasn't good enough for the guy with a $5000 dollar model and he insulted that new pilots model and made fun of him for flying a toy Combatpigg is right you can't stop the desire to fly and that pilot will take to the skies the question is will the AMA be there to teach him safe pratices and welcome him into th fold or will he be shunned and have to figure it out for himself in a possibly unsafe manner simply because he doesn't know any better?

Live Wire

Well you hit the nail right on the head but you missed one thing! money talks and every one else walks. Not the AMA but some of the people that think the rules are for every one else and they make a set for them selves and buddy's[:@]

bchapman

There's always going to be some people that feel that they have been run off by the "grumpy old men" but by and large I don't subscribe to that theory. I think the main reason that they feel run off is that when someone brings out a foamie they just bought and they don't follow the rules, someone is bound to get upset, because they came to close to their plane in the pits or something like that. The "grumpy old man" then says something to them about it, and there is the "run off."

Let's face it, when there are guys out there with $2000 airplanes, the last thing they want is someone who just picked up a foamie at Hobby Town running into it.

In the end, at least at my field, if a new person comes out to fly, park flyer or not, there is usually someone that will help them. I have never witnessed anyone being "run off"

Just my two cents worth...

littlecrankshaf

My Feedback: (58)

You make some good points and the premise or supposition that someone "run off" or simply has a bad incident simply quits the hobby is not well grounded. I can tell you that a bad experience at a club does not necessarily mean you leave and quit the hobby... Back in the early eighties I was invited to a local club...talking about a bunch crap that was...had an issue with one of the FOGs... I merely just continued on for almost twenty years just as I had before...with no club affiliation... as I look back it was some of the best of the best of times... wouldn't trade it for anything...Yep, some idiotic, better than thou butt wipe caused me not to join that club but I kept on enjoying my hobby without those DA idiots... I think the message here is not to be one of those idiotic butt wipes...

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Gee, you hold the AMA responsible for this?If the individuals all ate peanut butter, are you boycotting PBJ now?Seems silly to me.

vanpaassen

My Feedback: (1)

i don't think this issue has anything to do with the clubs at all and every thing to do with the fact that you can go get a plane that says trainer, easy to fly on the box for a couple hundred bucks (like the e-flite apprentice) and go to the local park and try to fly. also the younger generation thinks they know all so when the grumpy old man tries to tell them something they think they don't have to listen or there being picked on . like put before me if you don't look up every time you here a plane your not going to last long in this hobby weather your plane cost 200 or 50000 this is a hobby you have to have an love of aviation .

Jim Thomerson

I have never experienced anything like this in any of the AMA clubs I have belonged to or at any AMA contest. I have flown Free Flight and Control Line competitively for many years. Because of health problem, the next airplane I build with be RC. I don't know if I will approach any of the local RC clubs, as I am not interested in being badly treated. Well, time will tell. I do know that RC clubs vary, and I have been welcomed to fly CL on RC fields, and told to go away on others.

fireman350

Actually K-bob I do simply because often its no secret this member is the way he his knocking other peoples equipment and just generally cutting people down on the field, but the clubs as a whole fail to stand up to him and tell him "drop the attitude and leave your not doing us or the hobby as a whole any favors with you antics " more often than not the begin to worship and follow him simply because he has a pocket full of green and they let him have his reign. The clubs let him exsist and even more so in the ama's mag they almost promote it, you never see any one in a pic with an overseas made aircraft flying in jeans and a plain tee its the latests greatest hobbico offering flown by a uber pilots in his crisp polo with matching hat neck strap and duffel bag with more sponsor logos than Jeff Gordon's race car, they don't promote to average Joe Pilot they want the hobby to stay a brotherhood of the comfortably wealthy like it was 10 or 15 years ago when to start with a trainer it was going to cost you $1200 or better. Listen I am not trying to bash the AMA here I am not the Enemy I am simply trying to give you insight to "why the AMA is not growing" instead of attacking me look into yourself and your club if you have one of these individuals that laughs at foam pilots or electric powered talk to him make him fly one on a breezy day see if he can hang on to it you want the AMA to grow ? you need to start at home its in your attitudes welcome new pilots to your field give them a chance to fly after the skies have cleared in the afternoon don't shut them down because "you don't belong to the ama your not one of us your not welcome here" you want proof of that in the last 3 years I have created 2 clubs in this state that are not ama the oldest now has twice the membership of the local AMA club that is here and just about all of them come to me with the same story often involving the same individual I have actually sponken to that club president about it and he could care less be cause John Doe the ass pays for the fuel for the mower for the year he can do what ever he wants

Live Wire

LOL
I thought this only happened at local clubs. Just wondering how old people are 40 to 60 or older[:@]

crash99

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks CP for showing us the point I brought up. I am thinking of the last few people that left our club. Past away, moved away, past away, contractor move away. That cover about the past 3 years or so.

Come fly with us if you ever visit Lake of the Ozarks. Just remember if you use to a "grumpy old man going around telling you what do do" , you will have to wait until you make it back home. We fly for the fun of it. We all have common sence and we all get along like a bunch of brothers. Not as tight a military brothers but we are all good friends.

Our club only has 60 or so members. So I can not say if we had 100 we would be the same, but I think we would be. They say dead flash spreads so I guess good attude must do the same in the case of our club.

Crash99

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

My basic training during the Vietnam War was in your neck of the woods..Ft. Leonardwood in the state of Misery. The closest town was Waynseville.
Waynesville's rate of violent crime was several times that above the national average. Every Monday morning while we stood in formation they would read us the crime report about all the GIs who had been either killed, maimed or just assaulted over the weekend.
Waynesville was also known to us as, "FATALBURG".
Based on my knowledge of your area [including the Lake of the Ozarks area
that I also visited] I find it hard to believe that such a $@@%& place has turned out to become the "UTOPIA" that you claim it to be for all of "RC mankind".
There were guys in my platoon from your area who didn't know how to lace and tie their boots because they never wore a pair of shoes with laces before. Many of them needed the help of guys who were raised in other parts of the country to read their mail for them and to write replies back home. Several of these same guys also fainted while waiting in line to receive vaccines...which turned out to be the first "shots" they were ever given to prevent disease.
This was my first experience living in a 3rd world country for me. I could not believe that in 1970 there were US citizens who made love to rattlesnakes at church services.
I was completely blown away by the whole experience..no wonder they use that area to prepare recruits for what life would be like in the 3rd world.