Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Hi Geoff,
you can fly the F104 with original SM thrustline ~ 5 degree + CG 60-70 mm from wing nose back, F 104 fly with this dates but not nice, the 5 degree + thrustline was to much.
All little ~ 1:7 F 104s does i fly have this dates~4 - 5 +degreethrustline( Avonds F104 - Krumpp F104, Konstrukteur F 104 Heinz Behrens)
Theroot from the F 104works 40 % into the air as wing.
The smal F104s areheavy and root works not so good you must have thrustline 4-5 degree+
The SM F 104 not heavy and root works into theair better and you canfly the thrutlinefrom Original F 104 2 degree +
With 2 degree +thrustline goes the CG to 11,5 cm from wingnose back.
I hope you understand me.
Ali, very nice coulor
Best regards
Roland
you can fly the F104 with original SM thrustline ~ 5 degree + CG 60-70 mm from wing nose back, F 104 fly with this dates but not nice, the 5 degree + thrustline was to much.
All little ~ 1:7 F 104s does i fly have this dates~4 - 5 +degreethrustline( Avonds F104 - Krumpp F104, Konstrukteur F 104 Heinz Behrens)
Theroot from the F 104works 40 % into the air as wing.
The smal F104s areheavy and root works not so good you must have thrustline 4-5 degree+
The SM F 104 not heavy and root works into theair better and you canfly the thrutlinefrom Original F 104 2 degree +
With 2 degree +thrustline goes the CG to 11,5 cm from wingnose back.
I hope you understand me.
Ali, very nice coulor
Best regards
Roland
#228
RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Hi Roland
Thanks for the information. Just for clarification is this where you mean when you say "wingnose back" with a 2 degree thrust line? This is with the pipe distance to the top of the fuselage of 9cm.
Thanks
Alex
Thanks for the information. Just for clarification is this where you mean when you say "wingnose back" with a 2 degree thrust line? This is with the pipe distance to the top of the fuselage of 9cm.
Thanks
Alex
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Hi Alex,
thrust line 2 degree + = 8,5 cm top of the fuselage to new pipe 100 mm - old pipe 90 mm9 cm top of fuselage to pipe.
CG 11,5 cm wing nose back
end of pipe (nozzle) give pipe down
Best regards
Roland
thrust line 2 degree + = 8,5 cm top of the fuselage to new pipe 100 mm - old pipe 90 mm9 cm top of fuselage to pipe.
CG 11,5 cm wing nose back
end of pipe (nozzle) give pipe down
Best regards
Roland
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Despite the less than ideal conditions(very cold and windy), I have finally test flown my F104 today and had 3 very successfull flights.
I set up all the movements and the CG based on Rolands post(thanks for the info, it was spot on) and they are very close to my taste. I checked the slow speed handling on the first flight and was very surprised how docile it is.
On the 3 flights today I didn't have the Igyro on but despite the wind it was very stable so it really does show a massive amount of promise. Hopefully I will finish the small details such as repainting the nose cone(it needed correcting) by the time the next opportunity comes to fly it.
Mine has a P180rx installed and this is plenty amount of power, in fact, I knocked a thousand off the top end as it doesn't need it.
Here are a few photos taken. My good friend Jamie Cuff was there to double check everything and he also videoed the test flight so I will post a link once he has it loaded to Youtube.
I set up all the movements and the CG based on Rolands post(thanks for the info, it was spot on) and they are very close to my taste. I checked the slow speed handling on the first flight and was very surprised how docile it is.
On the 3 flights today I didn't have the Igyro on but despite the wind it was very stable so it really does show a massive amount of promise. Hopefully I will finish the small details such as repainting the nose cone(it needed correcting) by the time the next opportunity comes to fly it.
Mine has a P180rx installed and this is plenty amount of power, in fact, I knocked a thousand off the top end as it doesn't need it.
Here are a few photos taken. My good friend Jamie Cuff was there to double check everything and he also videoed the test flight so I will post a link once he has it loaded to Youtube.
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Congratulations Geoff, look forward very much to seeing next time at wrtn. You're a brave chap venturing out to do a maiden flight in this miserably cold weather.
H.
H.
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Fantastic, congratulations. Brave indeed to be out flying at all today, let alone a Widowmaker maiden.I cannot wait to see you fly it.
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Hi Geoff,congratulations for first flight F 104.I have make the first flights in this year, but in the moment weather is to bad.I experence with flaps, at the Moment i have 90 mm flaps/landing - slats the old dates 18 mm.F 104 Nr two was ready Best regardsRoland
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Great to see this fly yesterday, Geoff! Lots of promise indeed! I was glad you were flying it and not me - the visual illusion half way around a turn where it looks like it is suddenly going away is unbelievably powerful! Was thinking about the last turn onto downwind before the landing: Thinking about the B/A ratio of this jet, it might be worth applying one of the techniques used in the full sized Jaguar, whereby the pilot never put the stick into the corners - always two separate applications of aileron/elevator. In other words, roll to turn attitude, stick back to neutral and then apply backstick to turn. Small aileron inputs with the wing loaded were ok, but under G if you put a large aileron input in it could cause the jet to depart. Worth thinking about, as well as keeping a little more speed!
Cheers - Pat
PS - enjoy LM today!
Cheers - Pat
PS - enjoy LM today!
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
ORIGINAL: Geoff White
I set up all the movements and the CG based on Rolands post(thanks for the info, it was spot on) and they are very close to my taste. I checked the slow speed handling on the first flight and was very surprised how docile it is.
Mine has a P180rx installed and this is plenty amount of power, in fact, I knocked a thousand off the top end as it doesn't need it.
I set up all the movements and the CG based on Rolands post(thanks for the info, it was spot on) and they are very close to my taste. I checked the slow speed handling on the first flight and was very surprised how docile it is.
Mine has a P180rx installed and this is plenty amount of power, in fact, I knocked a thousand off the top end as it doesn't need it.
Congratulations with your successful maiden of the F-104. I have been watching this thread and is particularly interested in your comments regarding the following:
- please can you re-iterate your CG, control throws and empty weight.
- also, your remark regarding the power requirement - do you (or perhaps some has already tried) think a 160 will be enough for this jet?
Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Jan
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Jan, I have been away all weekend at a jet meet so haven't had the time to give you a full reply. I will answer your questions in the morning.
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Took a few pictures when Geoff was setting up, the video is now uploading to Youtube. I have not bothered with any fancy editing or music , i have just put the bits of video together in Movie Maker and uploaded it.
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
The video is still processing so quality should improve.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0gkdo-18A&list=UUeemr1KOBPW9cE0Nz513ziw&index=1[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0gkdo-18A&list=UUeemr1KOBPW9cE0Nz513ziw&index=1[/youtube]
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Cheers for that Jamie.
Jan - as promised here are some details. I set up mine based on Rolands posts i.e.
slats takeoff 11 mm
slats landing 17 mm
Flaps takeoff 45mm
Flaps landing 75mm
Elevator 50mm Up and down is 40mm( it hits the rudder if you use any more)
Rudder 30mm each way
Aileron 27mm each way
I have only had three flights and as you can see if you watch the vid it was windy so I haven’t been able to experiment with elevator trim with flap but I think Rolands are very close. So elevator takeoff flap is 3 mm up and landing is 6 mm up. I am also going to experiment with more flap as per Rolands post.
The all up dry weight is 19.4Kg, this is with a JC 180rx, 2X 3900MA 2S Lipo and 1x 4000 3S lipo,with a PB competition SRS and two Futaba 6203 Rx's.
Regarding CG. I was very nose heavy at the start as I put all the batteries in the nose of the model but after I shifted the ecu bat back too next to the turbine, I am running at 110 mm behind wing leading edge as opposed to 115 that Roland recommends. When I fly it again, hopefully in better conditions, I will experiment with moving it back to see if it is any better.
Would I use a 160N turbine? Yes as it doesn’t need a 180 but you will be on the power a lot. I almost got caught out by how much power I was having to carry when I had the flaps, slat and UC all hanging out. I would guess with a 160 you would 2/3rd power. On the second and third flights I was doing large loops and cuban eights so a 180 is about right I would say.
I am really looking forward to trying it again(will be a couple of weeks) when hopefully it will be calmer plus not as cold(I couldn’t feel my fingers after I flew) and then I can speak more authoritatively.
Jan - as promised here are some details. I set up mine based on Rolands posts i.e.
slats takeoff 11 mm
slats landing 17 mm
Flaps takeoff 45mm
Flaps landing 75mm
Elevator 50mm Up and down is 40mm( it hits the rudder if you use any more)
Rudder 30mm each way
Aileron 27mm each way
I have only had three flights and as you can see if you watch the vid it was windy so I haven’t been able to experiment with elevator trim with flap but I think Rolands are very close. So elevator takeoff flap is 3 mm up and landing is 6 mm up. I am also going to experiment with more flap as per Rolands post.
The all up dry weight is 19.4Kg, this is with a JC 180rx, 2X 3900MA 2S Lipo and 1x 4000 3S lipo,with a PB competition SRS and two Futaba 6203 Rx's.
Regarding CG. I was very nose heavy at the start as I put all the batteries in the nose of the model but after I shifted the ecu bat back too next to the turbine, I am running at 110 mm behind wing leading edge as opposed to 115 that Roland recommends. When I fly it again, hopefully in better conditions, I will experiment with moving it back to see if it is any better.
Would I use a 160N turbine? Yes as it doesn’t need a 180 but you will be on the power a lot. I almost got caught out by how much power I was having to carry when I had the flaps, slat and UC all hanging out. I would guess with a 160 you would 2/3rd power. On the second and third flights I was doing large loops and cuban eights so a 180 is about right I would say.
I am really looking forward to trying it again(will be a couple of weeks) when hopefully it will be calmer plus not as cold(I couldn’t feel my fingers after I flew) and then I can speak more authoritatively.
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Geoff,
Fantastic, thank you. Wow, it was obviously cold when you made those first flights.......
I assume all your measurements are at root and not at tip. If you could possibly confirm it will be good. The empty weight sounds great, how much fuel do you carry? I am also assuming that you fly at sea level.
I fly AMT and my power question is related to the motor I will have to use, either the Pegasus (16kgs) or the Olympus (24kgs). All my big SM jets (T-33, Viper, F-86, Hawk) are so far using a Pegasus, and they range between 18.5 and 21.0 kgs empty weight. I do have a small Avonds F-104 in which I use a Mercury Mk1 (7kgs) and know what you mean about the drag in landing configuration.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Jan
Fantastic, thank you. Wow, it was obviously cold when you made those first flights.......
I assume all your measurements are at root and not at tip. If you could possibly confirm it will be good. The empty weight sounds great, how much fuel do you carry? I am also assuming that you fly at sea level.
I fly AMT and my power question is related to the motor I will have to use, either the Pegasus (16kgs) or the Olympus (24kgs). All my big SM jets (T-33, Viper, F-86, Hawk) are so far using a Pegasus, and they range between 18.5 and 21.0 kgs empty weight. I do have a small Avonds F-104 in which I use a Mercury Mk1 (7kgs) and know what you mean about the drag in landing configuration.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Jan
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RE: Skymaster ARF Plus 1:5 scale F-104G
Hi Geoff,today i install the new pipe i have see the new pipe was on the end 10 mm bigger (95 mm) as my old (85mm)into the front all two same sice 100 mm from top fuselage to pipe you must go to ~9,5 cm with the new pipe does you have the same thrust line as my old pipe (not 8,5 cm) it was not the right thrust line - sorryCG 11,5 cm was ok with the right thrust line, the Body/fuselage works better into the front with a little more thrust line +My blue with red F 104 have dry weight was 18 kg, my new F 104 was a little bit lighter ~17,5 kg.rgRoland