tsull

The last several months have been somewhat stressful (new job, shut down the old company and moving....). However, I managed to complete my FPV system for my King Tiger minus the Gunner Reticle OSD (this provides an overlay on the video signal which will provide a cross hair for aiming the cannon along with temperature, latitude/longitude, battery condition, etc. information). I should have the Gunner Reticle OSD programmed by the fall.I've had great ideas in the past - only to understand too late that it was too complicated, too expensive or too stupid to work/lol!This time, I'm taking it one step at a time and with that theme, my FPV system is ready and tested for this next week's DAK Battle in Phoenix!THE SYSTEM:I'm running a 5.8 ghz transmitter with a simple rubber ducky antenna for transmitting the video signal. It contains 8 channels so we can eventually FPV battle up to 8 tanks on this transmitter setup. The camera, which is mounted to the Impact Apple, has a 120 degree range and has near IR capability. This allows that tank to run in near darkness and it can handle the fast change from sunlight to shadow. Both camera and Video Transmitter is powered by a lipoly battery separated from the other power systems.The RX is a custom Turnigy with a video screen and adapter system including the Video RX.As it's still in it's infancy, there are a multiple changes I'll make on the next system. Mostly due to the video RX. I've had it in the back yard for the last several days experimenting with it. Driving by FPV takes some getting use to, but it's fantastic once you get the hang of it. I sit back in a lawn chair, beer in hand, and drive the kT all over the back, around boulders, up inclines and around trees. The only difficult part is driving straight while you rotate the turret. Another camera in the hull with a picture in picture would be great.I'll battle with it on Saturday and if the KT holds out (I can easily swap the system into another tank), I'll report on how it is to battle FPV style. Maybe it will be great and maybe it will suck wind??? Stay tuned!The pictures are somewhat crude. I'm hoping to purchase a video recorder that I can record from the video RX on the Turnigy. One issue is the 5.8 is only line of site. When the FPV system goes behind anything large, I lose the video signal.tsull

DeadTom

Very cool indeed, it would be even better if there was a team of people to operate the tank...say a driver and a gunner at a minimum. They would go head to head like that guy from Japan was doing. I beleive that this would add so much to battling as you would be fully immersed in the battle and you could not see the whole field of battle like you can now. This would then lead to communicating not only with your driver/gunner but also with the other tanks on your team to achieve you mission/goal.
Keep us posted and thanks for sharing.

Strato50

This is probably already the idea but if you can make this tank-transferable in say, under 5 minutes, and under $300, (or more depending on video screen options), it will be VERY popular. Im excited for this technology

tsull

Hi Deadtom: the separate functions of driver and gunner would be great. The camera system I have now is better for driving, especially with the near IR capabilities. For the Gunner, you really need a tighter zoom camera. Unfortunately, the camera's are expensive and each camera needs it's own VTX and VRX.

Once I have the OSD completed, I will upgrade the Apple camera to a zoom which will provide better targeting and range selection. I'll move the near IR camera down to the driver's hatch and attach with rare earth magnet (or make a big headed driver*). By using a video switcher, I'll be able to drive with the near IR camera and once the target is engaged, switch to the zoom camera on the turret (Apple) wich will have the OSD Gunner Reticle.

But - first this weekend. Is it really cool or will it just add to the complexity of the tank and take away from the fun? I'll vote on the cool, but I've learned to temper my enthusium/lol.
______________

Strato50: I believe I can produce a complete system that would include the following:

1) 9 Channel custom flashed Turnigy TX with onboard video system including video RX (5.8g), lipoly battery system, sound for headphones, etc.
2) Lipoly battery with TX operated on/off onboard switch for Video TX and Camera
3) Near infrared micro camera and Apple mount
4) 5.8 ghz video transmitter (installs in tank or mount to Apple)
5) Custom OSD for Gunner Reticle, Battery charge, GPS system, etc.

The total cost is somewhere around $450 +- but the VTX and Camera System is plug and play like your Apple. The battery and OSD will beed to remain in the tank as they need to be hardwired. But, that component should be less then $100 +-. This will provide the ability to switch the system from tank to tank.

I have a day job so this is something that is truly hobby oriented and I want to make the system completely workable with all bugs before producing it or partnering with someone who can manage it on a full time basis. For testing, I probably won't have completed systems until this fall and I'm hoping my Tankers at DAK will help test several systems on their tanks. Once the bugs and feedback from DAK occurs, then it can go into limited production. I know one problem for this weekend will be the bright Phoenix sunlight on the video screen. I've been looking at single drop down lcd reticle video glasses - but they are expensive!

Or that's today's thoughts/lol!

Thanks,
tsull

edoubleaz

My Feedback: (1)

You might consider an IFA tank in this testing process as it removes the turret from the equation. I know my little Su-122 needs inspiration for completion.....

tsull

Ah, well - you know how long my KT typicallly last! I'm hoping for at least an hour of play with it on Saturday. Maybe we'll have to hot swap the camera over when the KT dies....
If not, when the new systems are ready, you'll be number 1 tester!
Not to be confused with a crash test dummy!
tjs

DeadTom

Keep up the great work and thanks for the information.

tsull

Thanks Tom!

I think I'll order these EyeTop monocular HUD/LCD glasses and try them with the system. Some of the helicopter pilots use them to keep an eye on their copter while being able to view FPV through the lense. There's also the new MOVERIO HUD glasses that just came out. These allow the OSD information to be superimposed over the glass lenses along with video. You can see out and adjust the overlay.

I don't like full immersion as I think you need to see your tank in real view along with the FPV.

There's going to be some really intereting technology coming out in the next several years (don't forget Gooogle Glass*).

tjs

B.A.D.A.S.S.Force

Pretty cool stuff, the technology is really improving & opening up whole new experiences people can have with their RC tanks!!!

But I think using monocular glasses would only be the way to go if you are also battling against non-FPV tankers within the same battle, which allows you to at least see the whole battlefield the same way they are seeing it so they don't have that full advantage... however, if it was a battle with all tankers using FPV, then the only way to go, or at least the best experience in my opinion, would be with everyone using full immersion goggles. Even if all tankers were using FPV, if you mix full immersion users with those that use monocular systems, the monocular systems will have a distinct advantage being able to see what the full immersion users won't ... the whole battlefield.

So a full FPV battle should be full immersion, or at least have those with monocular systems sit in a direction facing away from the battlefield, in an enclosed room, or place a bag over their heads ... this way everyone in a full FPV engagement sees the battlefield, but only by what they actually see in their FPV camera's field of vision, & no one has the distinct advantage of seeing the whole battlefield like they were in a plane flying over it.

At least that is I would like it or enjoy it the most if I were to engage in FPV tank battles.


Oh, & speaking of planes ... how cool would it be in an outside FPV tank battle, to be able to have scale RC planes fly over the battlefield snapping photos of the area, which could then be sent to the tanker's view screens over wireless !?!?!


~ Craig ~

tsull

I agree that a full immersion system would be the best. With my TX and VRX system, it allows for a second pair of goggles to plug in. That would be the best - but spendy and very difficult to get mutlple FPV Full Immersion tanks together. I think there is still an issue with a zoom camera versus a driver's camera that could be overcome by a video switcher (my next project after the OSD).

I can't seem to locate the website anymore, but there was a company building an IR Gunner system for RC Airplanes.

It was similiar to our RC Tank system in that an IR beam was fired at the opposing plane. Each plane had sensors grills mounted on wings and tail. If the attacked plane was actually hit, the battle system would cause the plane to fly in a staggered pattern for several seconds. The video was very cool - but I believe there was a sunlight issue on the IR system.

I can't keep a plane in the air for the life of me. THat's what started my on tanks. No weight issues and a bad day is losing a track pin.

tsull

DeadTom

Of course you would need to have a delay in the system just like it was in WWII, you know the observation plane would fly over take pictures fly back have the film processed and then photos would be hand delivered to the commanding officers to deciminate to the appropriate people in the field....so say 5 minutes after the pics were taken they could be delivered to show a change in the battle field. I like this conversation as to how many possibilities there are available to us to enhance the experience.
Now if I could only get all of my HL tanks setup with a Tamiya system.....

tsull

BATTLE UPDATE FOR FPV:

Yesterday was a warm and bright day at the DAK Phoenix tank battle (actually started out as overcast, but warmed up). Temperatures on the field were 90+- and it was a challenging test to determine the battleworthiness of fighting with a FPV system such as I had built.

So... Here's the scoop:

By using a FPV system to navigate and for target acquisition and firing is unbelievable. It IS ABSOLUTELY THE COOLEST THING I HAVE DONE IN RC!

However, I need to make some significant design changes.

The primary issue is glare on the LCD screen. As I figured, it was not effective to be in the midst of a battle, look down at the screen, try to shield it from glare and fire. I did manage to knock out a couple of allied tanks with the FPV system, but overall I found it too complex to use in the heat of battle.

The second issue is reception on the 5.8 ghz system. Once the tank goes behind a build, static builds up and it's hard to see. This is somewhat remedied by using a different "cloverleaf" antennae on the TX/RX. Just a little more cost $$$.

The LCD screen is great to run around the house or the backyard in the shade, but not in battle.

I believe the answer is more money.....

Actually, it's a monocular Head Mounted Display system that is needed.

By using an optical visor with a small, high resolution LCD screen mounted where the image can be projected into a Fresnal lense, you can design and build an efficient Monocular HMD that won't break the bank. To build the system, I'll need a 3D printer. It's a good excuse to pull the plug on one.

Epson also makes a very interesting pair of semi-transparent HUD glasses called the MOVERIO. Although it's Android based, you can hack a video signal into it. The MOVERIO is interesting because it allows the veiwer to see the FPV view along with normal viewing. At -+$500 per pair, I think I'll experiment with the LCD/Fresnal setup.

Of course, there's always Google Glass. But, at a projected cost of over $1,000 per, I'll pass.

I'll keep reporting on my progress. We're moving next month, so I'll be setting aside everything for several months - but it's a great excuse to build a better workshop.

Thanks,
tsull

Panther F

You and I must talk, after seeing pictures of the system and it in action I must say I am interested for sure now.

It WILL work indoors, right? Any video?














~ Jeff

tsull

Nope, I wanted to see if it was even worth it before I attached the FPV recorder. Now, I wish I had....

Here's the headset I'm playing with. I like this type of system as it sits above your normal vision. By slightly looking up, you'll be able to see the FPV battle and it will allow for a dark environment for viewing. The challenge will be in builidng the LCD system either on top of the visor or on the side of the visor and projecting it into the Fresnal lense. That's where a 3D printer for prototyping will be essential to build the housing and experiment with lenses, mirrors and focal points. Maybe I should put it on Kickstarter....

I also have looked at the Pirate Eye and several other systems that use a monocular approach. However, I like the ability to glance up and see the HUD rather then one eye on the HUD and one eye on the battle.

The other element is the camera. It needs to be placed right in line with the barrel. The way I have it mounted on the Apple offset's it too much. That's not a big deal, but it was more important then I thought.

Once I have HMD HUD figured out, I'll go back to programming the OSD Gunner Reticle. That will be a challenge with the programming and builidng the board.

Another twist I now fully appreciate is the camera system. The Gunner camera needs to be a zoom camera with a tighter focus than the near IR camera I'm using now. The near IR camera is good for driving, but you need to switch views for target acquisition and firing. This can be a simple system where the near IR camera can be mounted in the driver's hatch and the Gunner zoom camera on the turret.

It's a fun build. I've learned a lot and have a way to go. I still believe the completed system can be built for around $500 if the HMD HUD LCD isn't too expensive and the existing headset works. Or, at least equal to or less than a Tamiya (to be safe)... And - it would be removable and transportable to tank to tank.

Tsull
PS: feel free to pm me if you have any specific questions or comments. I kind of like the Kickstarter idea..

The first picture is the headset I'm currently using to house the LCD HUD and the second image is a LCD screen (from a camcorder) viewed through the headset and is a picture of my TX.

tsull

Yes, works great indoors as it is. Except for the wife....

DeadTom

Thats exciting news tsull, I have a MakiBox 3d printer on order and hopefully it should be here soon as it is in the beta testing now.
Good luck with the move and let us know when you get back to prototyping.

YHR

Todd

I have my Sherman set up using the FatShark FPV googles. This is off the shelf stuff (Under $300) so I am wondering what is different about this set up??

Can you elaborate again on what this is doing differently?

The FatShark googles totally immerse you in the tank, and block out all sunlight. IT does put you at a huge disadvantage as you do not get the over all perspective that other tankers have that are not using FPV. However the experience and heart pounding of not know what is around the next corner is real.

tsull

reyemmanuel

Hi tsull,

Hope your progressing with this project mate. Just a question re your gunner reticles osd, is this based on eagle tree system?

I've got a fatshark teleporter coming up (211 dollars inc clover leaf anntena), and will simply install panning servo ang smallest compass (in front of camera) for navigation and really for simplicity and cost. An OSD would b a nice addition.

With fatshark selling a complete full immersion system below 200, i think FPV ground battles are now w in reach. Imagine a tank platoon navigating n manuevering using compass and issuing voice commands to teamates (targetting, bearing, positiong, tactical manuevers, waypoints, etc) as all participants ( 2 platoons of 8 tanks, 4 each side) are on fatshark FPV...

siam

Totally agree DeadTom,
We are flying from Bangkok to Tokyo within this month to participate the FPV Tank Battle (Friendship Match) with our japanese friends there. There are three men in one tank (commander , gunner and driver).

siam

siam

DeadTom

Very cool proof of concept; now taking it a lttle further you could mock up a tank-like room/cube/area so that each team is in the same tank interior and then lower the lights to enhance the atmosphere.
Also, you could open the battlefield for viewing by people not actively on a tank team. Along with the spectator area you could add some fixed gun emplacements that the spectator could operate to try and kill a tank.
Lots of ideas but I need lots of time and money....

Good luck and have a great time,
DT

reyemmanuel

Hi mate,

with Fatshark Teleporter V3 selling only at 199 dollars... you just need 1 lipo bat to power this and your in for better experience.

The time for advancing the hobby is almost ripe. Gone would be the F1 racing and sweeping- and "tankers" whining...in for full immersion Infrared battling.
I cannot comprehend why we are prepared to spend heaps into the aesthetics and leave the gameplay less desirable, moreso with the RC tank operations which is toy like.

A great put off from RC'ers and outsiders alike as well as a source of falling off from the hobby for the most of us.

If I were to categorise tank nuts, it is as follows:

A. Scale Armour Modeller ~ artists
B. Scale Armoured RC Model ~ artists and RC user
C. Scale Armoured RC-FPV Combat Modeller ~ absolutely an armour nut!

..with only the category C willing to progress beyond just the aesthetics and novelty...its hard to bridge the gap to those in B and especially A.

Scale Armoured RC FPV Model Combat --> This makes RC armour modelling almost at the pinnacle of RC world where FPV experience of flyers and ground pounders, teamwork and tactics of wargamers and most importantly- the fun into modelling and recreating our favourite armoured vehicles are bundled in one.

The hurdle? Time, money and complexity. A possible solution may take this pathway...

Simpliest Route:

HL tank + Clark Board + Tamiya/Impact TBU + FatShark Teleporter V3 = 520 $
and you have a full immersion rc model with superb sound, advanced electroniks and full immersion experience.

They key is simplicity:

I guess frustration overwhelmed Tsull, as OSD and view switching was the aim. Would be better I think to start simple: A lot of RC "tankers" are old (but probably not feeble) and electrophobic, such the making the basics easy for all helps a lot. More enthusiastic ones can progress much further as they wish.

It is indeed very easy if one gets a ready to "fly" system (Fatshark Teleporter V3 @199 dollars), then place the camera on top of the loader/cmdr hatch. Done.
You now can drive and listen as if you are the tank commander w/ his head turned out.

If you need more experience out of the FPV and-later in gameplay, glue a mini compass on top of the tank where you can see it from the camera. With only sound and the immersion glasses feeding information, platoon mates must be in tune to each others voice communications.. such as in positioning and spotting. No more toy like movements of 1000$ models.

If you need more.. install panning servo.

If you need more...install tilt-such you'll have pan n tilt (but the latter does not do a lot of gain).

Then if you want more edge...and represent your model well, say, Leo2A6 and M1A2, install OSD (on-screen display, with GPS coordinates, etc...) and infrared camera (for night battling)..

=) Will keep you all posted.

cheers,
Rey