asmund

There`s really no need for mumble-jumble and black magic Just run it, a little rich and it will be good[8D]

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Dar was not banned.

jaka

Hi!
You don't meassure temp on a glow engine used in a plane or think in those terms! The only thing you should worry about is to not run it lean! And you controll that with listen to how the engine sounds! How do I know that?? By being involved in pylonracing for more than 30 years!

petergomes786

Hi Jaka & All,

Finally my parcel arrived from HKon saturday.Installed the glow plug no 3(hot) & a 12x6 wooden prop(with methanol/castor at 75%/25% mixture) on the Test Bench -open air at outside temp 34-35 deg.Cel.

Since the engine was squickingat the top I added some drops of glow fuel & thenplugged it ,Turned the prop with hand which was quit thight at top ,tried to flick it with hand but the top was quiet tight,after attaching the glow plug & flick it & found the there was a quiet big kickback,therefore used chicken stick.Engine started after a few flick.1st runs was for 20-25 sec with 2.5turns high speed needle at idle for few second then at full throttle more4 & then atimediately to2-4 stroking white smoke was seen reduced setting to2turns,Noticed black oil from silencer go back to tank,The engine became hot -stopped engine for cooling

During my 2nd run for almost 45 -to 50 sec with high speed needle at 1-3/4 engine was 2-4 stroking measured RPM 12000-12500exhaust port temp 53 -54deg .cel & end of silencer 59-60deg cel .noticed black oil from silencer go back to tank.Engine was much hotter.

Durng my 3rd run for 1 to 1.30 mintues with high speed needle at 1-1/2 engine was more 2-4 stroking measured RPM 12400-12900exhaust port temp57 -60deg .cel & end of silencer 67-69deg cel .While flicking ,the wooden prop nicked & I had to relace it with a 12 x4 master screw K Series

4th run was for 2-3 mintues with high speed needle at 1-1/4 engineat peak2 stroking measured RPM 13200-13600exhaust port temp62 -64deg .cel & end of silencer 70-72deg cel noticed that engine was dying therefore immed open it to 1 1/2 turned.& let cool down,she ran quiet well the last 2 mintues with RPM at 12500 but engine was almost not touchable exhaust port temp58 -59deg .cel & end of silencer 68-70deg cel .

5TH Run was for 4-to 5 minutes with high speed needle at 1-3/4 to 1 1/2& RPM at 11700 to 12500,engine washot .since engine was running hot stopped mybreaking inn .During all run I let the engine cool for 15-20 minutes.

My question is
1) The mfg .states 2000-9000 on 12 x 6
2) Temp is quiet high or is it ok for this engine or has any one measured the engine at 2 stroking full throttle
3) should i run it more richer that is 4stroking or at what RPM.
4) 12x 4 prop ok or should I switch to 12x6 APC.
5) Is my engine been breakin inproperly,whatIm doin wrong? that engine is running hot or whether its ok

Regardingmy glow plug booster I've this battery as below link & I've a UNI ROSS nicd/nimh charger which states charge rates is a 150 Mah for 2battery
so how long do I charge this .16 hours.Before Using ,Checked the voltage of 4 batteries each between 1.43 to 1.45 (asthey are ready to use)
or
I 've also Turnigy max 80 watt balancee /charger & discharger & 4 battery holder (old RX pack for alkalines battery)so at what rate should I chargethe battery when Iput theTurnigy max 80 wattto NIHM charge mode.

Awaitng for your feedback.
Turnigy AA LSD 2400mAh Low Self Discharge (ready to use)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...l?strSearch=rx

Regards
Peter

iskandar taib

My Feedback: (5)

Whyever WOULD you want to do that?????

Yeah, that break in procedure is way over the top - modern AAC engines don't really need much of one. Anyone remember what it was like with the old iron piston engines?? Even those weren't bad once they figured out to put a taper in the bore. The earlier ones like the old OS Max baffle piston engines - you'd have to run them rich, on the ground, for a long time before they'd tolerate being leaned out to full speed. You'd need to use a gallon or two of fuel to do this. The thing is, engines like this are still being sold - the old Fox .35 Stunt is one of them, Enya still sells iron baffle piston .09s and .15s, too. One good thing about buying a used .35 Stunt is it might've been broken in already. (On the other hand it might be worn out already, too!)

25-30% castor oil?????? If you were running a Fox Stunt, sure. A ASP? 20% would be plenty.

Iskandar

petergomes786

Dear Iskandar & forum members

petergomes786

Dear Iskandar & forum members

aspeed

If your battery is 2400 mah and your charger is 80 mah, then 30 hours would be ok.  Make sure it isn't putting out much more than 1.5 volts from that battery pack, check the polarity.  The charger shouldn't be a real high voltage either.  2 or 3 volts are fine, 6 may be a bit much if it is a flight pack battery.  Just don't run your motor too lean for a while, and if it runs and idles good, just fly it.  It should not be too lean, as at full throttle and the needle turned in til it slows down (burns down)  but anything richer than that is fine, even breaking into a 4 cycle for a couple tanks.

wcmorrison

My Feedback: (2)

 If you have no Nitro in the fuel, I would remove the shim/washer/head gasket.  It is installed to compensate for the use of Nitro.  At least have a look to make sure of just how it is configured.  It will run just fine on fuel with no nitro in it but will run better if the shim is removed.  That will raise the compression to compensate for the lack of nitro.

ABC engines do need heat to break in.  The heat expands the tapered cylinder and the oil provides the seal.   So in order to properly break in, it does need to get up to temperature.  It looks like Dar's process uses a lot of heat cycles which is just fine.

I would after initial run, go fly it.  Run it rich but fly it.  It will lean out some in the air.  And the engine will be operating near its normal temperature.  After the first four or five full tank flights, say 10 minutes per flight, lean out the engine some to its normal settings.  If use a Tachometer, set the high speed needle at 300 RPM below the max or if using your ears, set it maybe a 1/4 turn to the rich side from the max RPM. 

Besides the fun is in the flying not the breaking in.  Breaking in is ground run time and you miss the use of the engine to fly.  ABC/ABN engines do not need long break ins (or run ins) as there is no ring to set.  You will find a well broken in ABC engine will be quite loose with a pinch at Top Dead Center.  It will be so loose that the wind will make the prop move while the engine is not running.  So it can get very lose.  It will tighten up when it gets to up to operating temperature and develop plenty of power and RPM.

petergomes786

Hi speed,

I've a charger which is rated at 150 mah nimh /nicd ,so 16 hours should be ok right.

Hi Morrison,

what I noticed that the top engine is quit hot compared to bottom ,Tempon top at full throttle almost 2 stoking ,temp reaches upto 80 deg cel,silencer at72 deg cel & the max RPM 14000 Reduced it to 12800-13100 almost 2-4 stroking but again when I reduce throttleto half or 1/4 there is aabrupt variation in speed RPMdropto 7-8000 POOR TRANSITION & then varaition start & then suddenlyengine dies- I've ran almost 3.5 litre of rich fuel ,even now there is littleblack oil coming from exhaust,now the flippig is quit better,lesser kick (only at starting when engine iscompletely cold- outside tempis 29-31 deg .cel in morning .Since the prop is nicked changed to 11 x 7 apc

using aN3 hot glow plug,should I TRY another glow plug N5 medium hot or change brand A3 OS ?

what Im doing wrong ? pls advise


regards

Peter

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Peter,

I think you are reaching a point where you are making it too difficult. If it were my engine, I would peak the high speed and then back off about 400 rpm and run it on your model to see how it runs. A good idle will be a bit more difficult to find due to not using nitro in the fuel, but it will run okay. Go fly and have fun.

Adjust your low speed idle setting for a long an idle without the engine dying when advancing the throttle. I look for idle periods of longer than 25-30 seconds on Evolution 2 strokes before advancing the throttle quickly using 15% nitro.

asmund

I second that[8D]
Let me also repeat myself

jaka

Hi!
First of all.... do not make all that fuzz about running in! Just run it a little rich (400-1000rpm from max) and just set the low speed needle! There is all there is !!!!Do Not! I repeat! Do not meassure any temperature! That's not the way to do it! Not for a sport flier and not in pylon racing.You only listen to how the engine sounds and from there set the needles!

But! If I were you I would use 5% nitro and 20% oil (castor or a mix of castor and syntetic) and a Enya 3 or OS ( glow plug).

aspeed

Yep, fly it and have fun if it runs and idles safely.  The cyl. is hotter because there are explosions up there. 3.5 litres of fuel is enough for an ABC motor to be broken in IMO.

iskandar taib

My Feedback: (5)

Not surprising at all. The top end is where all the heat comes from. The bottom end is where the fuel vaporizes and cools the engine down (and the amount of cooling provided by the vaporization of the fuel is a LOT).

Are you still running 25% oil? Try reducing it to 20%, you might actually see temperatures going down. Your idle/transition problems might actually be related to too much oil.

Iskandar

petergomes786

Dear All,

Thanks for the Reply,my next bottle wouldbe at 20%.I want to havea 100%correct Idle therefore what the RPM should it beat IDLE 2000 OR 2500 OR 3000RPM..

Today ran 3 rans & noticed that the engine isnow responding much better & very less black oil .Reached a Peak RPM of 14000-14100 did not further push itany further ,leaning it would kill the engine.Now I kept her at 12500-12800 for 2 runsstaright there was no sagging.

Here inGOA ,we dont getNitro -Therefore have to useMethonal /caster .Pls you give the full chemical name of Nitro,willcheck with some of he CHEMICAL Vendors,whether theycan provide me or I try to buy it from some other state.

Presently on N3 ,Should Ichange to N5 ? i've a A3 OS PLUG.Pls advise

Regards
Peter

iskandar taib

My Feedback: (5)

Nitromethane is.. um, nitromethane. CH3NO2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitromethane

It IS expensive, out here in the boonies. In the US it is relatively cheap, you can get it at drag strips and racing shops, but elsewhere in the world it's hard to come by, plus it's hard to import (sort of a controlled substance around here). I've seen it for sale on alibaba.com (from China) but it comes in 55 gallon drums (I'd hate to think what one would cost). Be careful, though - I heard of a case where Chinese nitro had residual acids in it and it corroded the insides of someone's engine really badly.

Doesn't anyone import glow fuel in India?? Check model car shops, model car people like to use lots of nitro in their fuel. Get some 30% nitro fuel, you can then mix it in a 1:5 ratio with your straight fuel and you'll get 5%. India produces a lot of castor oil, you shouldn't have trouble getting that.

What are these plugs you're using?? The only "N3" plug I have in my collection are these Chinese ones I bought off someone on e-bay. He was advertising them as "3 stroke plugs", I about died laughing when I came across that. Many plugs will work in your engine, it's not like it's a racing engine and you're operating it on the edge - it's a garden variety RC sport engine. You'll probably never notice any difference between a "N3", "N5" or OS A3 anyway.

I think you should just forget all about this break in business and go fly, seriously. Cut the oil to 20%, it doesn't matter if the idle is 2000, 2500 or 3000 RPM, or even if it's a little rough, as long as it doesn't cut out on you in the air.

Iskandar

mike109

G'day Peter

What is the correct idle speed? There is none. So long as the plane will stay still on the ground and the idle is stable then that will be OK. Tune for the best idle you can get such that the throttle response is smooth when the throttle is opened. As an engine wears in, it will be possible to lower its idle speed.

If you have the idle speed too high, landing can be difficult but using a prop with less pitch can solve the problem.

If you are using "no nitromethane" fuel, your engine will run OK but be a little more difficult to tune. You will need a hot plug. OS 3 (now called 6 I think) or better still Enya #3. The heat of the plug determines the timing of the combustion and without nitro, you need to fire the mixture earlier and so use a hotter plug. OS F (four stroke) plugs can also be used. Just make sure you use the copper gasket and turn the engine over gently by hand to make sure that the plug is not hitting the top of the piston. This is unlikely to happen but it may in some engines which have had the head gasket removed.

To set the idle this is what I do.

1. Tune the engine for maximum revs at full throttle ie, keep leaning the main needle until a 1 click increase does not result in more revs. This is peak revs. I do this by ear but you can use a tacho.

2. Now move the throttle for the best stable idle you can get. It may be quite fast.

3. Adjust the Low Speed Needle (LSN) slowly. At first you will not notice much change but eventually you should hear the engine start to smooth out and the revs begin to rise. You are getting close.

4. Try the transition - ie open the throttle and see what the engine does. If it splutters and throws out fuel from the muffler, it is probably still too rich on the LSN. Repeat Step 3. If it suddenly stops, you may have gone too lean on the LSN. Open it about 1/2 turn and try again in small (1/8 turn) steps.

5. When you think you are close go back to step 1 and re-tune the high end again and then repeat the other steps from step 1.

It is generally best to leave a newish engine slightly rich at the bottom end on the LSN.

Once you have a reliable idle and good transition then again re-tune the main needle for max revs at full throttle and then richen the main needle 3 or 4 clicks so that the engine is running slightly rich at full power. This will compensate for the fact that as the fuel tank empties, the mixture can become leaner.

Also, do a search for Uniflow Tank. With no nitro, this will help compensate for the gradual lowering of fuel pressure as the tank empties. You can connect any three pipe tank as a uniflow tank though you do need a second clunk and some heat shrink tube or similar. Uniflow tanks have helped many flyers to get more reliable engine runs.

Hope this helps a bit and is not too confusing. I did all this to an Enya 45SS this afternoon. It is now running really well.

Mike in Oz

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Mike,

Dunno about the rich LSN. That is the reason a lot of engines die in the air. They run rich, load up with fuel, and then die when given the throttle. Bad mix for a long landing approach, etc. and you need some power "right now!" But, it sounds like you tune to get it just right and not rich by the way you explain it. I don't do the pinch the fuel line or hold up the nose tests. I let the engine idle for 20-30 seconds and then give it throttle. I listen to see if it stumbles, wheezes, gurgles, whatever and go from there.

petergomes786

Hi Mike,

God bless you.

you have just saved my engine from being broken in ,after more than5 liters of Fuel,the HSN issetjust correctly. Each& every step you have mentioned has been considered very minutely.

Yes I agree with you on idle for which the engine should be stable & should not die while take off or before loading or any vertical climb,The RPM at Idle was very much HIGH at 4500 to 5000.,any lower than this ,the engine would die out sputtering fuel from the CARB meaning the LSN was very Rich ,needing to be closed i.e. screw inwards, To get theLSN set ,it took me more than 1 1/2 hours as I was starting the engine ,dropping to IDLE -Stopping it & then again correct he idle Notch by notch & also noticingatwhat RPM does the engine dies sputtering fuel out from Carb,kept on screwing it in(closing it in )Till the engine idle at 2800-3000 Rpm , Then I kept doing this till i got the best IDLE .

Thanks foryour help, I’ve finally done it. The engine Idleswell that the throttle bars is justopen bylees than1or 2mm ,shestill does not DIE.
Did the pinch test & the rev increase slowly for at least 3 to 4 second& then tends to die out.

It give me some much thrill to see both Excellent IDLE &when openedthrottle to full power towards max lean,itpeaked a RPMof 15200 now I've kept her 13800-14200 ( rich 2-4 stroking) ,The best part is that thisenginewont die -opened it suddenly to full throttle thenhalf & Idle .Alltest have gone through only onceit choked,sputtered fuel & die from idle to full throttle( then i adjusted LSN a little more & also re tuned the HSN) ,

Another best part is that the engines start within 1 or 2 flick with Hand ,The enginesThrottle barrel is justopenedmay bebyless than 2mm .Ican hardly seewhether the throttle barrel is opened just a small tiny eye shape opening.

As Isaid earlier, I left the engine HSN set atRICH & between 2-4 stroking.

Thanks forthe uniflow Idea ,Already started making another new tank with uniflow concept, One question ,I've those brass or copper pipe ,Do you know any betterIdea to bend the pipe with out any blunt bent (kinked typed)damaging the fuel flow. if yes I be glad to set itas I plan tomake my new uniflow tanks tomorrow.

Thanks& regards
Peter

http://www.flyrc.com/index.php/optimize-your-fuel-system-for-best-performance/