Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
04-15-2013, 04:09 PM
#376
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Hmmmmmmmmm. [X(]
ORIGINAL: dubd
This point has very troubling for me and has weighed on me heavily over the last few days. To be clear, FEJ has not offered me anything. However, on Friday Lowell and James made an offer to me for a 1/7 F-18 with the condition that I close this thread. The plane would have been paid for out of their pockets, not FEJ. I declined for two reasons:
1.) The offer was not equitable to the airframe that I lost and it was made in the same manner as my F-14. 2.) If I had taken the plane, I would have sold the plane to recoup some cash. However, I could not in good conscience sell a plane made the same way as my F-14 to an unsuspecting modeler.
I stated to FEJ that the only way I will accept a plane from them is if the replacement plane is of similar value with improved construction techniques applied to it. I would then take the plane and evaluate it and show the RCU community that FEJ has listened and improved their product based on our feedback.
Whatever the case, I will not ask for this thread to be closed. My money is gone and getting a few grand from the sale of a model is not worth hiding this information.
By posting this information I am sealing the fate that I will not receive anything from FEJ... so be it.
ORIGINAL: FalconWings
Another problem is that after threads like this, the manufacturer provides a new airframe and cuts some kind of a deal to the victim, then the victim vanishes away (sort of recovering whatever is possible, cutting losses). Then the threads dissappear.....but the design flaws remain.
Another problem is that after threads like this, the manufacturer provides a new airframe and cuts some kind of a deal to the victim, then the victim vanishes away (sort of recovering whatever is possible, cutting losses). Then the threads dissappear.....but the design flaws remain.
1.) The offer was not equitable to the airframe that I lost and it was made in the same manner as my F-14. 2.) If I had taken the plane, I would have sold the plane to recoup some cash. However, I could not in good conscience sell a plane made the same way as my F-14 to an unsuspecting modeler.
I stated to FEJ that the only way I will accept a plane from them is if the replacement plane is of similar value with improved construction techniques applied to it. I would then take the plane and evaluate it and show the RCU community that FEJ has listened and improved their product based on our feedback.
Whatever the case, I will not ask for this thread to be closed. My money is gone and getting a few grand from the sale of a model is not worth hiding this information.
By posting this information I am sealing the fate that I will not receive anything from FEJ... so be it.
04-15-2013, 04:14 PM
#378
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Providence, RI
Posts: 1,644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
What a read. This thread has completely destroyed a solid decision to purchase FEJ's 1:7 F-16. Not so much the performance concerns as I'm pretty much a "nascar" pilot anyway. The disingenuous posture of FEJ is what turns me away. Makes me sick.
Thanks Dantley for this...
Take care
Thanks Dantley for this...
Take care
04-15-2013, 04:21 PM
#379
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
I'm very clear that this is a business and FEJ's response reminds me of these famous words...Cash Rules Everything Around Me. These guys don't care about me or any of you. They want your money. With that said, FEJ has made improvements to their planes to be competitive and increase the overall value compared to competitors. It's time we make safety and the correct use of honeycomb as one of these features.
And to FEJ, this is not over. I have purchased a few domain names (some nice, some not) and I will create a web site for people to post their experiences about the quality of your planes. This information will be centralized and free of your strings. We have our eyes on you.
As modelers, we should not just sit back and take this. Some of us are sitting on planes that have pretty much lost their value. I know, some of you called me expressing your frustration.
As a community, we really do have to police ourselves and these manufacturers. We have stated repeatedly about the poor quality of the way FEJ has used honeycomb, so what are we going to do about it? Just let the next generation of n00bs buy these planes without knowing the history? Look how many n00bs have purchased these planes over the last 2 years claiming they are awesome, when 2 years ago they were the junk of the jet community.
Will we tolerate these planes being flown at jet events without proper inspection? If one of these planes kills someone we're done. This is made even more clear to me with the bombings in Boston today. A fully loaded plane with fuel is essential a propelled bomb. The future of our hobby is in our hands.
And to FEJ, this is not over. I have purchased a few domain names (some nice, some not) and I will create a web site for people to post their experiences about the quality of your planes. This information will be centralized and free of your strings. We have our eyes on you.
As modelers, we should not just sit back and take this. Some of us are sitting on planes that have pretty much lost their value. I know, some of you called me expressing your frustration.
As a community, we really do have to police ourselves and these manufacturers. We have stated repeatedly about the poor quality of the way FEJ has used honeycomb, so what are we going to do about it? Just let the next generation of n00bs buy these planes without knowing the history? Look how many n00bs have purchased these planes over the last 2 years claiming they are awesome, when 2 years ago they were the junk of the jet community.
Will we tolerate these planes being flown at jet events without proper inspection? If one of these planes kills someone we're done. This is made even more clear to me with the bombings in Boston today. A fully loaded plane with fuel is essential a propelled bomb. The future of our hobby is in our hands.
04-15-2013, 04:35 PM
#380
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: VF84sluggo
Jack, exactly my thoughts when I suggested the chain of events leading to a failure. Take the vertical tails as an example: will likely lateral flexing of these at maneuvering AOA's, which is inherent in the aerodynamics of a Tomcat due to the physical geometry of the jet/fuselage, cause stresses that crack glue joints and/or materials inappropriate for load-bearing applications?
And after how many cycles? 1 flight's worth, 10 flight's worth, who knows?
Sluggo
ORIGINAL: JackD
But there is a size when things will be more flexible, and avoiding resonance, fatigue, glue integrity, etc, will need to be part of the design. Our glues for example, are totally stiff, could they take a flexing surface without breaking?
But there is a size when things will be more flexible, and avoiding resonance, fatigue, glue integrity, etc, will need to be part of the design. Our glues for example, are totally stiff, could they take a flexing surface without breaking?
And after how many cycles? 1 flight's worth, 10 flight's worth, who knows?
Sluggo
So what this says to me is that the F-14 suffered some of the same issues and they didnt address them in the same manner as the Hornet which was developed later. The two examples are not related but its an interesting observation I think.
The model of the F-14 would obviously suffer from the same issues as the FS Cat. The tails would flex together and apart and knowing the poor construction of the bulkheads, the honeycomb and interior structure its very easy to imagine the rest of the chain of events that caused the crash.
I would be willing to bet the oscillation seen in the video is the result of the vortices from the forward fuse acting on the tails, the tails causing a harmony which weakend the bulkheads associated with it and then the rest of the plane responding to the frequency now that its structurally compromised.
It would be really interesting to see one of the current owners of a FEJ F-14 put a Gopro behind the canopy or inside facing rearward to record whats going on with the tails. Then go fly and pull the same manuever as Dantley did so we can study what the aft fuse is doing under load.
04-15-2013, 04:35 PM
#381
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Given the size and weight of the F-14 involved here, and with similar sized planes & jets. Incidents like this will change the way this hobby is regulated when one of these jets kills someone. Or when someone finally realizes the potential.
Watch the AMA start imposing restrictions or withholding sponsorships and insurance coverage on jet events.
But why should any chinese company care about this? They are in China with their/your money saying, "Oh sorry about your misfortune. We give you good price on another deeply flawed and un-airworthy jet."
Watch the AMA start imposing restrictions or withholding sponsorships and insurance coverage on jet events.
But why should any chinese company care about this? They are in China with their/your money saying, "Oh sorry about your misfortune. We give you good price on another deeply flawed and un-airworthy jet."
04-15-2013, 04:41 PM
#382
Senior Member
My Feedback: (33)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spotsylvania,
VA
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
I will remember the actions of this vendor when looking at new airframes. I truly hope this thread can remain open for a long time.
04-15-2013, 04:43 PM
#383
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: dubd
I'm very clear that this is a business and FEJ's response reminds me of these famous words...Cash Rules Everything Around Me. These guys don't care about me or any of you. They want your money. With that said, FEJ has made improvements to their planes to be competitive and increase the overall value compared to competitors. It's time we make safety and the correct use of honeycomb as one of these features.
And to FEJ, this is not over. I have purchased a few domain names (some nice, some not) and I will create a web site for people to post their experiences about the quality of your planes. This information will be centralized and free of your strings. We have our eyes on you.
As modelers, we should not just sit back and take this. Some of us are sitting on planes that have pretty much lost their value. I know, some of you called me expressing your frustration.
As a community, we really do have to police ourselves and these manufacturers. We have stated repeatedly about the poor quality of the way FEJ has used honeycomb, so what are we going to do about it? Just let the next generation of n00bs buy these planes without knowing the history? Look how many n00bs have purchased these planes over the last 2 years claiming they are awesome, when 2 years ago they were the junk of the jet community.
Will we tolerate these planes being flown at jet events without proper inspection? If one of these planes kills someone we're done. This is made even more clear to me with the bombings in Boston today. A fully loaded plane with fuel is essential a propelled bomb. The future of our hobby is in our hands.
I'm very clear that this is a business and FEJ's response reminds me of these famous words...Cash Rules Everything Around Me. These guys don't care about me or any of you. They want your money. With that said, FEJ has made improvements to their planes to be competitive and increase the overall value compared to competitors. It's time we make safety and the correct use of honeycomb as one of these features.
And to FEJ, this is not over. I have purchased a few domain names (some nice, some not) and I will create a web site for people to post their experiences about the quality of your planes. This information will be centralized and free of your strings. We have our eyes on you.
As modelers, we should not just sit back and take this. Some of us are sitting on planes that have pretty much lost their value. I know, some of you called me expressing your frustration.
As a community, we really do have to police ourselves and these manufacturers. We have stated repeatedly about the poor quality of the way FEJ has used honeycomb, so what are we going to do about it? Just let the next generation of n00bs buy these planes without knowing the history? Look how many n00bs have purchased these planes over the last 2 years claiming they are awesome, when 2 years ago they were the junk of the jet community.
Will we tolerate these planes being flown at jet events without proper inspection? If one of these planes kills someone we're done. This is made even more clear to me with the bombings in Boston today. A fully loaded plane with fuel is essential a propelled bomb. The future of our hobby is in our hands.
As a result of this incident I emailed Anton and urged him to consider a Certification Program for their jets. He replied quickly in turn that he would be discussing this with BVM. I hope this means the start of an honest and transparent system that proves some level of engineering has been incorporated in the build and design of these models as well as testing to support such claims.
04-15-2013, 04:53 PM
#385
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
This has all been an interesting read.
For some of us, this is old news. We posted about these sort of issues and the response to them from the manufacturer a long time ago and we were kind of vilified for it (right Jeremy?)...
I have been to a *lot* of jet flyins on the east coast in the 14 years or so that I've been flying jets (damn that's a long time - I'm old
). I've seen almost every manufacturer's aircraft shed parts at one time or the other, but I've seen one brand do it probably 10 times more than any other...
Bob
For some of us, this is old news. We posted about these sort of issues and the response to them from the manufacturer a long time ago and we were kind of vilified for it (right Jeremy?)...
I have been to a *lot* of jet flyins on the east coast in the 14 years or so that I've been flying jets (damn that's a long time - I'm old
). I've seen almost every manufacturer's aircraft shed parts at one time or the other, but I've seen one brand do it probably 10 times more than any other...Bob
04-15-2013, 04:57 PM
#386
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
This has all been an interesting read.
For some of us, this is old news. We posted about these sort of issues and the response to them from the manufacturer a long time ago and we were kind of vilified for it (right Jeremy?)...
I have been to a *lot* of jet flyins on the east coast in the 14 years or so that I've been flying jets (damn that's a long time - I'm old ). I've seen almost every manufacturer's aircraft shed parts at one time or the other, but I've seen one brand do it probably 10 times more than any other...
Bob
This has all been an interesting read.
For some of us, this is old news. We posted about these sort of issues and the response to them from the manufacturer a long time ago and we were kind of vilified for it (right Jeremy?)...
I have been to a *lot* of jet flyins on the east coast in the 14 years or so that I've been flying jets (damn that's a long time - I'm old
). I've seen almost every manufacturer's aircraft shed parts at one time or the other, but I've seen one brand do it probably 10 times more than any other...Bob
04-15-2013, 04:57 PM
#387
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Dantley, you are a man of character and honor! I think I speak for many here as I express how impressive it is that you would not accept what amounts to "hush" money, and thereby allow this to papered over.
As has been mentioned, this is a safety issue. The thought of a poorly engineered 1:7 scale Tomcat flying out of control into a crowd of spectators is chilling. That a company would offer a free jet kit in return for keeping quiet is dispicable. Kudos for rising above that. You are doing the hobby a HUGE service here.
Sluggo
As has been mentioned, this is a safety issue. The thought of a poorly engineered 1:7 scale Tomcat flying out of control into a crowd of spectators is chilling. That a company would offer a free jet kit in return for keeping quiet is dispicable. Kudos for rising above that. You are doing the hobby a HUGE service here.
Sluggo
04-15-2013, 05:08 PM
#390
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Well, that's what is really depressing here: seeing those two JetCats destroyed in that pic, well I know that had to be gut-wrenching.
As far as site names, well, that's a tough call. For sure Option 2 gets one's attention
Oh, one more thing I almost forgot: I'm no lawyer, but at this point, with so much overwhelming evidence presented here this past week, there may be much, much more serious liability issues now for a pilot that flies one of these, has it go out of control due to structural failure as yours did, and subsequently cause property damage; or Heaven forbid, human injury or loss of life. Further, for a manufacturer to knowingly sell a known poorly engineered jet that is involved in said incident, IMHO that could also border on the criminal.
Sluggo
As far as site names, well, that's a tough call. For sure Option 2 gets one's attention
Oh, one more thing I almost forgot: I'm no lawyer, but at this point, with so much overwhelming evidence presented here this past week, there may be much, much more serious liability issues now for a pilot that flies one of these, has it go out of control due to structural failure as yours did, and subsequently cause property damage; or Heaven forbid, human injury or loss of life. Further, for a manufacturer to knowingly sell a known poorly engineered jet that is involved in said incident, IMHO that could also border on the criminal.
Sluggo
04-15-2013, 05:10 PM
#391
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Bottom line. Jets of any substantial size, weight, and speed capabilities exceeding 150 mph requires designing and engineering by those well-qualified individuals who hold aeronautical engineering degrees from certified colleges. Those who understand aerodynamic forces.
Secondly, there is a big difference in someone who barely passed his engineering certifications and someone who aced the test.
I'm never impressed by a diploma. I'm impressed by the person who graduated with a high GPA or graduated Suma Cum Laude, or Magna Cum Laude.
Secondly, there is a big difference in someone who barely passed his engineering certifications and someone who aced the test.
I'm never impressed by a diploma. I'm impressed by the person who graduated with a high GPA or graduated Suma Cum Laude, or Magna Cum Laude.
04-15-2013, 05:14 PM
#392
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: dubd
Sluggo, thanks, but I have to admit, I was hoping to recoup the cost of my engines. However, after all the information that came out of this thread and being treated like dirt by FEJ, I just can't let them off the hook... now the question is... for my new web endeavor do I use www.flyeaglejetfeedback.com or www.flyeaglejetsucks.com?
Sluggo, thanks, but I have to admit, I was hoping to recoup the cost of my engines. However, after all the information that came out of this thread and being treated like dirt by FEJ, I just can't let them off the hook... now the question is... for my new web endeavor do I use www.flyeaglejetfeedback.com or www.flyeaglejetsucks.com?
04-15-2013, 05:18 PM
#393
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: , UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Just wondering if you used a servo reverser on one of the elevator servos dudb ? Some will work on 2.4G for 10 mins then go crazy heard of a few guys loosing planes to this.
04-15-2013, 05:20 PM
#395
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: speed lover
Just wondering if you used a servo reverser on one of the elevator servos dudb ? Some will work on 2.4G for 10 mins then go crazy heard of a few guys loosing planes to this.
Just wondering if you used a servo reverser on one of the elevator servos dudb ? Some will work on 2.4G for 10 mins then go crazy heard of a few guys loosing planes to this.
04-15-2013, 05:30 PM
#398
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: EDFJim
Use ''feedback'' cause I have FEJ models that I hope to fly for many years and want to make them right.
Use ''feedback'' cause I have FEJ models that I hope to fly for many years and want to make them right.
04-15-2013, 05:34 PM
#399
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: bevar
I find it interesting that the FEJ promoters in this thread are the completely niave, newbies with little to no real experience.
The pilots posting objective, fact based comments are all accomplished, exceptionally talented individuals...with experience ranging from national and international competition champions, real Tomcat pilots, aeronautical engenieers and so on.
It's all about safety...never forget that.
Beave
I find it interesting that the FEJ promoters in this thread are the completely niave, newbies with little to no real experience.
The pilots posting objective, fact based comments are all accomplished, exceptionally talented individuals...with experience ranging from national and international competition champions, real Tomcat pilots, aeronautical engenieers and so on.
It's all about safety...never forget that.
Beave
And when it comes to safety, if there's any doubt, then there's no doubt: suspend the operation and get it sorted out.
Sluggo
04-15-2013, 05:55 PM
#400
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
These guys need to slow down, pick a size and make it the best they can. Having a jet of every model, size and scale is rediculous. Be great at a few things instead of weak at everything.
Im sure they get hourly request from guys reguesting every model and size.
I also think they should stay away from twin models and any model a P200 can fit in. They arent built for it and they just dont test them. Their market is cheap disposable jets. buy crash, buy crash. Cheap and good looking. very enticing. Theres no competition if your the only company producing an F14, so pump it out as fast as you can and flood the market with them. I think every single one of them fluttered and they just keep pumping them out. very reckless.
Ive heard growing pains since they started. problem is they never quit growing and always have the pains.
They need to hire someone to evaluate all of their product line and make the necessary modifications. At minimum all twins or models capable of carrying a P200 need evaluating by a real expert.
Unfortunately this company will not get any better without us as the test pilots but need to be able to reimburse those guys who find their products short comings. Noone probably knows how many jets have crashed to poor design that were offered a discount to hush. crashes happen, but buy another one at a significant discount. I wonder how many guys arent even in the hobby after learning the hard way about FEJ flaws.
Some guys get all panicked if we say to ground a jet when all FEJ has to do is admit theres a problem, find the solution, send out an addendum and modify the aircraft. Maybe as simple as a rear wood former. Right now their saying theres not a problem and check your batteries. thats BS! Video of a jet twisting like a pretzel and tell you to check your batteries. Are you serious?!!
I can see a guy freaking out if his whole fleet was twin FEJ Honeycomb bombs but I think they can be made safe with the right mods. and please dont overpower or be responsible enought to really detune them.
The Ultra Bandit had a weak nose and one folded. BV acknowleged the problem, found a solution, sent out an addendum and they were all modified. an example of a responsible Manufacturor. but this was after extensive product testing. they tested the snot out of the UB.
Ill admit I was put off by how long it has taken for Anton to come out with some models that have been advertized as "coming soon" but thank goodness he has taken his time! His products are really improving greatly.
Id also like to say that Anton is a guy who will stand behind what he produces. I had an issue with a new model that he stood behind 100% and fixed all models that were in service as well as future kits.
FEJ, get your sh*t together and reimburse Dantley for doing your R&D!
If you guys dont do the right thing Ill never consider buying one ever! Im sure others feel the same way. Who going to buy stock in your company when you have this attitude towards your customers.
You guys have finally inched your way into being somewhat respectable but are now about to loose all of that. going to drag Lowell and James down with you!
Dantley, you have my support all the way brother!
Scott Marr
Im sure they get hourly request from guys reguesting every model and size.
I also think they should stay away from twin models and any model a P200 can fit in. They arent built for it and they just dont test them. Their market is cheap disposable jets. buy crash, buy crash. Cheap and good looking. very enticing. Theres no competition if your the only company producing an F14, so pump it out as fast as you can and flood the market with them. I think every single one of them fluttered and they just keep pumping them out. very reckless.
Ive heard growing pains since they started. problem is they never quit growing and always have the pains.
They need to hire someone to evaluate all of their product line and make the necessary modifications. At minimum all twins or models capable of carrying a P200 need evaluating by a real expert.
Unfortunately this company will not get any better without us as the test pilots but need to be able to reimburse those guys who find their products short comings. Noone probably knows how many jets have crashed to poor design that were offered a discount to hush. crashes happen, but buy another one at a significant discount. I wonder how many guys arent even in the hobby after learning the hard way about FEJ flaws.
Some guys get all panicked if we say to ground a jet when all FEJ has to do is admit theres a problem, find the solution, send out an addendum and modify the aircraft. Maybe as simple as a rear wood former. Right now their saying theres not a problem and check your batteries. thats BS! Video of a jet twisting like a pretzel and tell you to check your batteries. Are you serious?!!
I can see a guy freaking out if his whole fleet was twin FEJ Honeycomb bombs but I think they can be made safe with the right mods. and please dont overpower or be responsible enought to really detune them.
The Ultra Bandit had a weak nose and one folded. BV acknowleged the problem, found a solution, sent out an addendum and they were all modified. an example of a responsible Manufacturor. but this was after extensive product testing. they tested the snot out of the UB.
Ill admit I was put off by how long it has taken for Anton to come out with some models that have been advertized as "coming soon" but thank goodness he has taken his time! His products are really improving greatly.
Id also like to say that Anton is a guy who will stand behind what he produces. I had an issue with a new model that he stood behind 100% and fixed all models that were in service as well as future kits.
FEJ, get your sh*t together and reimburse Dantley for doing your R&D!
If you guys dont do the right thing Ill never consider buying one ever! Im sure others feel the same way. Who going to buy stock in your company when you have this attitude towards your customers.
You guys have finally inched your way into being somewhat respectable but are now about to loose all of that. going to drag Lowell and James down with you!
Dantley, you have my support all the way brother!
Scott Marr