speedbrake

Pictures

speedbrake

Uploaded some pictures but still having problems.

The inner nacelles have been glued on and the strut/wheel footprint cut out. The retracts were installed to ensure the cut outs are correct. The cut outs were positioned so the wheels retract into the center (deepest part of the nacelle) of the nacelles. The scale (actual) cut out is slightly on the outboard edge of the nacelles. The front retract mounts are not finished. I began gluing on the belly panel, it will be a three part gluing process because of its length. Took a lot of time to trim the belly panel to fit correctly. The front edge isn't long enough so will need to add some balsa to close the gap.

The front retract mounts are parallel with the aft mounts and 9 3/4 inches apart. Because the firewall has a downthrust angle of 4 degrees, the mount will be a tapered block behind the firewall. I made a balsa jig to ensure the angle is made correctly. The retract will not lock properly if the angle is not correct....and the strut angle will not be correct as well...21 degree forward stance.

Should have the belly pan, retracts done later this week. The plane will be sitting on its gear by the weekend......

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Good choice. Thanks, Dan.

speedbrake

The plane is sitting on its gear. I finished the front gear mounts this morning. The mounts are a lamination of plywood, tapered to a wedge shape and glued to the back side of the firewall. T-nuts are in-bedded in the laminations to secure the front gear fitting. The mounts were pinned with 1/8 wood dowels to the firewall for extra strength. The gear can be installed/removed easily from the front and wheels openings. The firewall can be removed to install the tank and route wires and fuel tubing. Looking ahead, the only I don't like is two of the engine mount screws will need to be wood screws. the other two can use T-nuts. The Robart gear seems strong enough and can be easily taken apart if needed. I'm using 5 inch Byron wheels.

Still working on the belly pan. I put a priority on the gear...so back to gluing the pan.

Not sure what I'll work on next. Getting close to packing everything up and moving. I will not attempt to start sanding and glassing while here. This would probably be a good time to install the engines and cowls.

I'll upload pictures when the system permits.

speedbrake

I got the plane outside the building room and set it on the floor to take pictures. The first thing I noticed was the amount of down thrust the nacelles have. It looks excessive. The nacelles can't fit any other way, they were molded to fit....but it looks to be too much. Wow. There is a lot of wing incidence built into the mold, but even so the nacelles look like they are drooping. The difference between the cord line and the nacelle face is about four degrees. The wing fits the saddle pretty well so that isn't the problem. The nacelles have negative incidence compared to the fuselage.

I hope this is normal. Otherwise this is an oh-sh*t. I sent some pictures to some friends of mine who fly large multi-engine planes to get their opinion. If this is normal, then the fuselage will fly with a slight nose up attitude or the nacelles fly with a down attitude. I've not seen an American Eagle B-17 in person so can't relate to what I'm seeing.

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Speed, maybe these images will help. Dan.
http://www.flyrcmodels.com/b17.htm

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Try their info address. Dan.
[email protected]

speedbrake

Looking at those pictures I can see a negative incidence in the inner nacelle. The nacelle doesn't line up with the fuselage C/L. But it is difficult to see how much they differ in the picture.

I went back and looked at the photos in the thread. There is definitely a negative incidence showing in the pictures. But it becomes very visible with the wing bolted to the fuselage. The only area where they didn't seem to fit was the LE. The amount of glass in the LE areas was nearly 3/16 inch thick and it didn't conform to the wing LE... it was much thinner. Before sheeting the wing I placed the nacelles on the wing and noticed the LE area was perfect....so I knew there was going to be a problem. Otherwise all four nacelles lined up with each other perfectly.

Rats!

speedbrake

Yep, the nacelles do not align with the fuselage. When I checked the down thrust of the nacelles it was about 3 degrees or so from the cord line. I didn't think that was excessive considering the amount of wing incidence. I will re-measure...I think a mistake was made here. The big mistake was not attaching the wing to check the alignment with the fuselage. There could be a problem with the wing saddle (remember the problems I had fitting the wing) but if the wing is rotated so the nacelles are in alignment with the fuselage the wing will have too much incidence. The airfoil seems to be OK. I think the nacelle alignment is off. They fit the airfoil perfectly. The only way I could change the nacelle incidence is by cutting the flange off. That was never a consideration. The nacelles fit the airfoil so well I thought everything was OK.

Not sure what to do with the plane. Too much damage will occur if I take it apart. I'll sit on it awhile before deciding.

A couple of things to consider if you are also building this kit. Make sure the fiberglass is fresh, greenish color almost transparent. If you get a brown one like mine...send it back. Check the alignment of the fuselage, the vertical fin, and the stab stubs. The stab stubs should be in alignment with each other and not have dihedral. And check the wing saddle for alignment with the stab. Place the nacelles on the wing foam and see how it fits around the LE. If it conforms to the airfoil without the sheeting on then you will have the same problems I had. Finally, bolt the darn wing on before proceeding with the nacelles.

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Speed, how does the wing incidence agree with the horizontal stab? Dan.

speedbrake

Dan...a darn good question! With the stab level at 0 degrees, the wing cord was at minus degrees. Not sure how many yet....need to find a level and protractor.


Thanks for the input!

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I've been looking at the 3-views I have in 'Scale Aircraft Drawings Vol2, WW2', shows the wing at +3.5deg. The nacelles LOOK like they are 0deg to the incidence (0deg to the reference line). The stab shows 0deg to a reference line through the fuse.
Edwin

Crap, still cant do pics. And they say the site will get better. Send me your email and I'll forward a scan of the 3-view page I have.

speedbrake

I added pictures above. You can see how badly the nacelles are drooped. The nacelles are 3 1/2 degrees minus from the cord line. If the wing is supposed to have 3 1/2 degrees positive incidence, then the nacelles should be at zero degrees or so. What I can't understand is how the wing could be off by that much. When I was experiencing problems with fitting the wing...I should have realized it was time to second guess the fuselage alignment.

Visually the fuselage looks like it has a lot of incidence built in. That is because the upper chamber is just about twice high as the lower chamber. I'll measure and get the current values and go from there.

Thanks Edwin

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

The three views I have show the wing at plus 3.5 degrees. There is none at the horizontal stab and nacelles. Dan

speedbrake

The fuselage and stab were leveled, and a straight edge placed along the wing cord. The cord is a minus half a bubble from level. With the wing bolts removed and the inner nacelle level with the fuselage, the cord is plus 6 degrees. Notice the gap between the wing and fuselages saddle with the nacelle level. The wing saddle appears to be off alignment. I think an incidence of plus 4 degrees would work out find. Not sure how to get there with the current airfoil and saddle alignment. I just sent America Eagle a letter explaining the problems I've had with this particular kit and asked them to replace the fiberglass and foam parts. I'll let you know what they say.

speedbrake

I received an answer from American Eagle. I thank them and hope they continue to follow through. I will comment once I have all their replies.

speedbrake

I received an answer from American Eagle. I thank them and hope they continue to follow through. I will comment once I have all their replies.

I can seem to delete this message.......disregard

All Day Dan

My Feedback: (5)

Speed, thanks for posting that letter. I'm interested in what the response says but it wont open. Maybe the data base is too big. What did American say? Dan.

speedbrake

It seems American Eagle will not answer anymore. Just the one response from them and that is it. I'm disappointed.

My experience with the kit: I was given a really old kit...so old that the fiberglass parts had turned brown. I was told my kit was coming right out of the mold. There were alignment problems with the fuselage...........problems with the stab (one side of fuselage higher than the other) and wing saddle (twist in fuselage). I guess the stab dihedral is normal...according to AE. There is minus incidence on the wing saddle....don't know if that is normal or not, they never answered. The fin has a twist to the left...perhaps a result of the fuselage alignment problem at the aft end.

The nacelles are supposed to be ready to attached to the wing.....the proper shape being set in the mold. I found all four nacelles fit the same except at the wing LE. The tape holding the nacelle halves together were poorly done and sticking up. All fiberglass parts had very large pin holes...more like craters actually. The foam parts seem to be OK. There is no way the nacelles will fit correctly without removing the mounting flange.

The directions were OK....just enough to get the plane together. Not sure what I'll do with the plane. The only answer is to remove the nacelles, then remove the flange and reinstall. Not sure if I'm up to the task. Will be lot of work. The minus incidence has me concerned....not sure if that is a design feature or not.....just doesn't seem right. In the directions it says to use the top of the fuselage for alignment purposes. The stab has zero incidence when measured to the fuselage top. The wing saddle has a minus 1 or 2 degrees compared to the fuselage top and stab.

Thanks for following along.

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

It's sad that you paid for what is clearly a 3rd-rate product. Hopefully others will learn and can avoid this company. We have all been in your shoes at least once. Experience is the best teacher, but the tuition is usually expensive.

Best regards.

kennye

My Feedback: (11)

who sells the American eagle kit? Where could I get one?

P47flyer

My Feedback: (6)

I have a kit if interested. Also have retracts & 4 Saito 4 strokes.

Dave H

lawrence b

Hi Speedbrake,
Sorry to read about your B-17, I have built one American Eagle kit and was not really impressed. They had to send me a second aft fuse part because the first one had been pulled out of the molds while it was still green and twisted really bad.
If your B-17 fuse has negative incidence I wouldn't waist my time with it. All airplanes with the tail in the back (not a canard) should have positive incidence at the wing root. I usually put 2 to 2.5 degrees in the root and then some washout at the tips. With the negative angle being molded into the fiberglass it would be a monumental amount of work to get it right.
I noticed the American Eagle web site has gone off the web, I guess they have pulled the plug.
If you really want a good flying B-17 build the Don Smith model or a Wingspan model, both are excellent flyers.
I have been very happy with my AE Bf-109G, it flies very good and is going on over 3 years old but it did take some extra effort during the build.

kennye

My Feedback: (11)

What are you asking for the kit w/o the engines?

P47flyer

My Feedback: (6)

Will not sell without engines & retracts. Send pm with offer.

Dave H