Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
04-18-2013, 04:24 PM
#778
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
04-18-2013, 04:24 PM
#779
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Replying to rcmodelcalifornia. Read his post
Any model that is unproperly built/assembled/flown is dangerous. A rc jet properly built and flown is not more dangerous that a badly built/flow rc heli or prop plane.
Dantley's F14 or any other 20-30Kg FEJ plane are poorly engineered and built. I would never buy one. Period
Regards
Nuno
Any model that is unproperly built/assembled/flown is dangerous. A rc jet properly built and flown is not more dangerous that a badly built/flow rc heli or prop plane.
Dantley's F14 or any other 20-30Kg FEJ plane are poorly engineered and built. I would never buy one. Period
Regards
Nuno
04-18-2013, 04:24 PM
#780
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: FLY EAGLE JET
Announcement:
About the incident on the F14. First of all, everyone at FEJ isconcerned about safety. We do testing on all our aircraft over and over. We arestill constantly upgrading what we have. This is not to say any are bad, wejust want to make them better.
Our F14 has been flying for years with both fiberglass and honeycomb. This isthe only one this has happened to like this. We have over 100 flights on ourown honeycomb F14 and no issues like this at all. It is very unfortunate and weare very sorry for the loss, but do not believe the issue will ever be solvedfor sure. This is sad and a loss for all involved.
We do care and like all manufacturers want to be safe. However,after 25 flights it is hard to determine what happened here. Also, we used tohelp customers to re-built their next model if they want another one, no matterwhat happened, just trying to save some money for customers. For this case, itis hard to find the right answer. In the concern of safety for all and with all of the opinionshere, we can work plywood and carbon fiber bulkheads when people want. We hopethat everyone will understand that we do care and want to make the bestaircraft we can.
Again, we are sorryabout this F14 lost. Now, we are having someone to examine the videos again,(no youtube in China, got video from other way) just try to find out anypossibility to cause this model crash. Since there were some possibilities tocause this model crash, we need a little more time to find out the rightanswer. <o
></o>
FLY EAGLE JET<o></o>
04-18-2013, 04:30 PM
#782
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: cjgillette
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
04-18-2013, 04:34 PM
#783
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Replying to rcmodelcalifornia. Read his post
Any model that is unproperly built/assembled/flown is dangerous. A rc jet properly built and flown is not more dangerous that a badly built/flow rc heli or prop plane.
Dantley's F14 or any other 20-30Kg FEJ plane are poorly engineered and built. I would never buy one. Period
Regards
Nuno
Any model that is unproperly built/assembled/flown is dangerous. A rc jet properly built and flown is not more dangerous that a badly built/flow rc heli or prop plane.
Dantley's F14 or any other 20-30Kg FEJ plane are poorly engineered and built. I would never buy one. Period
Regards
Nuno
04-18-2013, 04:34 PM
#784
Thread Starter
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: Airplanes400
WHATTTT?????
ORIGINAL: jetnuno
SAFETY IS IN THE BUILDER/PILOT, NOT IN THE MODEL IF PROPERLY DESIGNED AND BUILT...
SAFETY IS IN THE BUILDER/PILOT, NOT IN THE MODEL IF PROPERLY DESIGNED AND BUILT...
04-18-2013, 04:35 PM
#785
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
It bears repeating, I was just reading back over the last 4 pages since this is such a hot thread, and read the FEJ post.
If you read it closely and see the basic english used you will realize how they communicate. The level of sophistication of the English to Chinese, or most any Asian language, is solely dependent on the people they have on staff. If a Chinese company has only Chinese employees who have gone to school only in China then their English skills are about as good as ours were when we took French, Spanish, or German in High School.
If they have anyone on staff who has a Western education, work experience, or similar background then their communication skills are much better.
Its been my experience that you have to keep the conversation simple and direct but polite to get your point or concept accross. Its not degrating or belittling or talking down its simply communication and respect for the cultural differences.
When you guys are throwing around slang language, advanced concepts, large technical verbage, you have to understand this is overwhelming to anyone outside of the USA in any language when English is not the primary language.
I'll give another example, might make you ROR, (that means Raugh out Roud)
When I was eating at a restaurant with a factory I asked them what the vegtable plate was. Jim says "its a type of grass" ok then what is this fish? " its a white fish" So I asked Jim do you have names for each of the kinds of grass and fish you eat? He said not really we have some local names but there is no translation that exists. So we established that whenever we ordererd food from that point on I asked for "another fish and some swamp grass" It was all delicious but I cant tell you what I ate. They have general descriptive names for things while we have very specific names like Trout or Yellow Tail.
So when I read their reply I see the intent and attempt at tyring to catch up to this situation but this thread is like aiming a firehose at a match.
Again they are not culturally accustomed to replacing products, customer service is evolving in China. The best thing the US reps to any foreign company could do is to educate the company about US culture and practices. If your a rep its really your responsibility to cement good ties and relations so a customer in your care will have a positive experience and return in the future.
Americans are, in retail terms, a pain in the *****, own it, its true, its our sterotype.
If you read it closely and see the basic english used you will realize how they communicate. The level of sophistication of the English to Chinese, or most any Asian language, is solely dependent on the people they have on staff. If a Chinese company has only Chinese employees who have gone to school only in China then their English skills are about as good as ours were when we took French, Spanish, or German in High School.
If they have anyone on staff who has a Western education, work experience, or similar background then their communication skills are much better.
Its been my experience that you have to keep the conversation simple and direct but polite to get your point or concept accross. Its not degrating or belittling or talking down its simply communication and respect for the cultural differences.
When you guys are throwing around slang language, advanced concepts, large technical verbage, you have to understand this is overwhelming to anyone outside of the USA in any language when English is not the primary language.
I'll give another example, might make you ROR, (that means Raugh out Roud)
When I was eating at a restaurant with a factory I asked them what the vegtable plate was. Jim says "its a type of grass" ok then what is this fish? " its a white fish" So I asked Jim do you have names for each of the kinds of grass and fish you eat? He said not really we have some local names but there is no translation that exists. So we established that whenever we ordererd food from that point on I asked for "another fish and some swamp grass" It was all delicious but I cant tell you what I ate. They have general descriptive names for things while we have very specific names like Trout or Yellow Tail.
So when I read their reply I see the intent and attempt at tyring to catch up to this situation but this thread is like aiming a firehose at a match.
Again they are not culturally accustomed to replacing products, customer service is evolving in China. The best thing the US reps to any foreign company could do is to educate the company about US culture and practices. If your a rep its really your responsibility to cement good ties and relations so a customer in your care will have a positive experience and return in the future.
Americans are, in retail terms, a pain in the *****, own it, its true, its our sterotype.
04-18-2013, 04:38 PM
#786
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: dubd
I think what Nuno is saying is that the safety is with the builder/pilot if the plane is properly designed and built.
ORIGINAL: jetnuno
SAFETY IS IN THE BUILDER/PILOT, NOT IN THE MODEL IF PROPERLY DESIGNED AND BUILT...
SAFETY IS IN THE BUILDER/PILOT, NOT IN THE MODEL IF PROPERLY DESIGNED AND BUILT...
Sluggo
ORIGINAL: jetnuno
Replying to rcmodelcalifornia. Read his post
Any model that is unproperly built/assembled/flown is dangerous. A rc jet properly built and flown is not more dangerous that a badly built/flow rc heli or prop plane.
Dantley's F14 or any other 20-30Kg FEJ plane are poorly engineered and built. I would never buy one. Period
Regards
Nuno
Replying to rcmodelcalifornia. Read his post
Any model that is unproperly built/assembled/flown is dangerous. A rc jet properly built and flown is not more dangerous that a badly built/flow rc heli or prop plane.
Dantley's F14 or any other 20-30Kg FEJ plane are poorly engineered and built. I would never buy one. Period
Regards
Nuno
04-18-2013, 04:40 PM
#787
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: cjgillette
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
Did you miss the part where they tried to bribe Dantley with a free jet to get him to close the thread?
Did you miss the comments from at least one other person who said they witnessed a crash of a honeycomb FEJ model and it was replaced for free in order to keep it quiet?
Did you miss the comment from LGM when he informed FEJ of serious issues with his FEJ liberty and their response was "the factory is to busy to deal with those problems"
Did you miss the fact that numerous other models have had flutter?
Did you miss thd Xrays of the anti-pivot rods for the horizontal stab going through a honeycomb part with no hard point?
There are numerous examples of why FEJ is getting this bad rap, you've had a good experience. Good for you, that doesnt mean there isnt merrit.
Is your 1/4.5 Hawk a honeycomb model? If so, did the builder incorporate any changes of modifications? If so, what and why?
Again, this is mostly related to FEJ's larger models, and all those utilizing a HoneyComb construction. If yours is neither of either, your experience's dont really mesh with the list of complaints. Its like comparing apples to oranges.
04-18-2013, 04:43 PM
#788
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: cjgillette
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
Most of us are familiar with the TamJet SuperHornet. Built in China, but one of the best, most reliable scale turbine jets ever offered in the US!! They don't flutter & break, they fly absolutely awesome and last damn near forever, if you don't break it yourself! Why? Tam made regular trips to the factory to inspect the jets for QUALITY CONTROL! If he didn't like them, they never made it out of China!
FEJ really ought to hire Tam as a consultant to get their act straight! With Tam in control of QC, I'd buy anything they built!
David S
04-18-2013, 04:51 PM
#791
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Tam I will fly you to Beijing 
ORIGINAL: David Searles
The highlighted statement might be true if dealing with a mass machine produced item. It is decidedly not true when dealing with individually hand built kits, assembled by workers with varying amounts of skill, attention to detail or supervision! This is a major part of the problem! Quality control is for sh%t, in many cases.
Most of us are familiar with the TamJet SuperHornet. Built in China, but one of the best, most reliable scale turbine jets ever offered in the US. They don't flutter & break, they fly absolutely awesome and last damn near forever, if you don't break it yourself! Why? Tam made regular trips to the factory to inspect the jets for QUALITY CONTROL! If he didn't like them, they never made it out of China!
FEJ really ought to hire Tam as a consultant to get their act straight! With Tam in control of QC, I'd buy anything they built!
David S
ORIGINAL: cjgillette
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
Jetpilot, I'll try to answer the other questions asked of me. Here goes. I have a FEJ 1/4.5 hawk that I have flown the crap out of with no issues to date powered by an Evojet 180. Same one Ali has ( who has been conspicuoulsy silent on this thread). I have a S/M f-15 (pretty early version). I have a FEJ t-33 that I recently finished and have flown 5 times with no issues. I have a Fei Bao mb339 that I stole from Shaz. And I have a Boomer Elan that I have flown the heck out of (poorly, but sure is fun).
That's my experience. Built all of them except the Hawk. I have all sorts of time in on 50% and larger airframes in the aerobatic prop arena. No, most of my flights have not been perfect in fact I would say that I fly with a great deal of terrified glee. I would NEVER say that I'm a great pilot because that would be a bald-faced lie.
I'm also bald.
That has nothing to do with my opinion here. I KNOW 'twas flutter killed the beast. That much is apparent. But unless I hear of f-14's falling out of the sky all over the place (which I have not and it appears to be a very popular model) all I can conclude is that perhaps Dantley's f-14 had a structural issue. But I also don't really know what happened on the 25 flights before, in his servos or in his garage or on the trailer to the field. I once used some servos (reputable then, notorious now) that fluttered like a leaf in the wind -but only on occasion and for no apparent reason other than sudden demonic possession.
I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap and try to put the place out of business to satisfy my sense of righteous indignation. A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
That's really all I'm saying. Doesn't mean that I don't absolutely sympathize with Dantley. Doesn't mean that I am in bed with FEJ. Doesn't mean I'm right. But it also doesn't mean I'm wrong and a troll either.
Most of us are familiar with the TamJet SuperHornet. Built in China, but one of the best, most reliable scale turbine jets ever offered in the US. They don't flutter & break, they fly absolutely awesome and last damn near forever, if you don't break it yourself! Why? Tam made regular trips to the factory to inspect the jets for QUALITY CONTROL! If he didn't like them, they never made it out of China!
FEJ really ought to hire Tam as a consultant to get their act straight! With Tam in control of QC, I'd buy anything they built!
David S
04-18-2013, 04:57 PM
#792
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
I'll have the Trout or Yellow Tail. I'm not much for swamp grass.
Either way, I'd never buy an FEJ jet, or spend time building one, even if given to me for free.
Bottom line in my opinion, jets of this size need professional engineering, R&D, design, construction and testing techniques similar to that of full-sized aircraft. Flight test them to the point of high-load maneuvers & destruction, and know their limits.
But in the end, I prefer the Trout and BVM.
Either way, I'd never buy an FEJ jet, or spend time building one, even if given to me for free.
Bottom line in my opinion, jets of this size need professional engineering, R&D, design, construction and testing techniques similar to that of full-sized aircraft. Flight test them to the point of high-load maneuvers & destruction, and know their limits.
But in the end, I prefer the Trout and BVM.
04-18-2013, 05:00 PM
#793
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: cjgillette
A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue.
Said defect may indeed be present in every example but not manifest itself on every example (or during any given flight for that matter).
04-18-2013, 05:14 PM
#794
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: cjgillette
"I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap..."
"A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue. "
"I can't then draw the conclusion that ALL honeycomb FEJ's are crap..."
"A design or manufacturing defect is one that is fundamental and inherent in EVERY instance of the product at issue. "
Anyone not post curing vinyl ester or epoxy composites, using honeycomb, and relying on vacuum bagging or even worse open face molding techniques should be written off immediately. Peel strength is everything in honeycomb structures and thats only achieved in the best conditions by experts in the art, period. You cant post cure polyester because it has a low temperature threshold and it will deform, same with the mold if the mold is made with polyester resin. So if FEJ were using high temp epoxy tooling, epoxy resin, vacuum bagging and an autoclave then I would say there is a chance I would buy a FEJ honeycomb jet, and thats just to qualify them to be looked at by me, for my money. Then we can examine the construction and distribution of loads by bulkheads, etc.
So bottom line ask questions and get the info to help you understand what your dealing with in composites.
To the second point - not true in this case. It cant be repeated in production when the factory changes its materials/techniques one jet at a time. Also this is a hand made product so the percentage of deviation and part failure is very high = high scrap rate. Every composite fabrication or manufacturing company on the planet has a defective pile of parts to be fixed prior to delivery to assembly or they are scrapped or donated to universities, etc.
If a manufacturer claims they have perfect composite parts 100% of the time they are lying and you should run the other way.
This metric can be tracked easily on a production line that is automated like electronics.
04-18-2013, 05:36 PM
#795
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Guys I have a request.
I need pictures of FlyEagle F-14 stabilators (preferably from directly above). They should be taken pretty far back and right over the center if possible.
I have 2 pictures now and they appear different (you 2 guys know who you are and they were usable, thanks).
I will keep names private but I intend on sharing the pictures, at least cropped and rotated versions of the pictures. I am trying to calculate the position of the pivot with respect to the MAC. I hope Oli (olinco) can help me cross check results after I get some more pics.
They would look like this:
EDIT: THis pic was taken a bit to far aft and too close. It is still a great pic, but we are trying to measure something here that can be off by 1% and cause trouble.
I need pictures of FlyEagle F-14 stabilators (preferably from directly above). They should be taken pretty far back and right over the center if possible.
I have 2 pictures now and they appear different (you 2 guys know who you are and they were usable, thanks).
I will keep names private but I intend on sharing the pictures, at least cropped and rotated versions of the pictures. I am trying to calculate the position of the pivot with respect to the MAC. I hope Oli (olinco) can help me cross check results after I get some more pics.
They would look like this:
EDIT: THis pic was taken a bit to far aft and too close. It is still a great pic, but we are trying to measure something here that can be off by 1% and cause trouble.
04-18-2013, 05:59 PM
#797
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RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
Here
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
Guys I have a request.
I need pictures of FlyEagle F-14 stabilators (preferably from directly above). They should be taken pretty far back and right over the center if possible.
I have 2 pictures now and they appear different (you 2 guys know who you are and they were usable, thanks).
I will keep names private but I intend on sharing the pictures, at least cropped and rotated versions of the pictures. I am trying to calculate the position of the pivot with respect to the MAC. I hope Oli (olinco) can help me cross check results after I get some more pics.
They would look like this:
EDIT: THis pic was taken a bit to far aft and too close. It is still a great pic, but we are trying to measure something here that can be off by 1% and cause trouble.
Guys I have a request.
I need pictures of FlyEagle F-14 stabilators (preferably from directly above). They should be taken pretty far back and right over the center if possible.
I have 2 pictures now and they appear different (you 2 guys know who you are and they were usable, thanks).
I will keep names private but I intend on sharing the pictures, at least cropped and rotated versions of the pictures. I am trying to calculate the position of the pivot with respect to the MAC. I hope Oli (olinco) can help me cross check results after I get some more pics.
They would look like this:
EDIT: THis pic was taken a bit to far aft and too close. It is still a great pic, but we are trying to measure something here that can be off by 1% and cause trouble.
04-18-2013, 06:37 PM
#799
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: Chris Nicastro
It bears repeating, I was just reading back over the last 4 pages since this is such a hot thread, and read the FEJ post.
If you read it closely and see the basic english used you will realize how they communicate. The level of sophistication of the English to Chinese, or most any Asian language, is solely dependent on the people they have on staff. If a Chinese company has only Chinese employees who have gone to school only in China then their English skills are about as good as ours were when we took French, Spanish, or German in High School.
If they have anyone on staff who has a Western education, work experience, or similar background then their communication skills are much better.
Its been my experience that you have to keep the conversation simple and direct but polite to get your point or concept accross. Its not degrating or belittling or talking down its simply communication and respect for the cultural differences.
When you guys are throwing around slang language, advanced concepts, large technical verbage, you have to understand this is overwhelming to anyone outside of the USA in any language when English is not the primary language.
I'll give another example, might make you ROR, (that means Raugh out Roud)
When I was eating at a restaurant with a factory I asked them what the vegtable plate was. Jim says ''its a type of grass'' ok then what is this fish? '' its a white fish'' So I asked Jim do you have names for each of the kinds of grass and fish you eat? He said not really we have some local names but there is no translation that exists. So we established that whenever we ordererd food from that point on I asked for ''another fish and some swamp grass'' It was all delicious but I cant tell you what I ate. They have general descriptive names for things while we have very specific names like Trout or Yellow Tail.
So when I read their reply I see the intent and attempt at tyring to catch up to this situation but this thread is like aiming a firehose at a match.
Again they are not culturally accustomed to replacing products, customer service is evolving in China. The best thing the US reps to any foreign company could do is to educate the company about US culture and practices. If your a rep its really your responsibility to cement good ties and relations so a customer in your care will have a positive experience and return in the future.
Americans are, in retail terms, a pain in the *****, own it, its true, its our sterotype.
It bears repeating, I was just reading back over the last 4 pages since this is such a hot thread, and read the FEJ post.
If you read it closely and see the basic english used you will realize how they communicate. The level of sophistication of the English to Chinese, or most any Asian language, is solely dependent on the people they have on staff. If a Chinese company has only Chinese employees who have gone to school only in China then their English skills are about as good as ours were when we took French, Spanish, or German in High School.
If they have anyone on staff who has a Western education, work experience, or similar background then their communication skills are much better.
Its been my experience that you have to keep the conversation simple and direct but polite to get your point or concept accross. Its not degrating or belittling or talking down its simply communication and respect for the cultural differences.
When you guys are throwing around slang language, advanced concepts, large technical verbage, you have to understand this is overwhelming to anyone outside of the USA in any language when English is not the primary language.
I'll give another example, might make you ROR, (that means Raugh out Roud)
When I was eating at a restaurant with a factory I asked them what the vegtable plate was. Jim says ''its a type of grass'' ok then what is this fish? '' its a white fish'' So I asked Jim do you have names for each of the kinds of grass and fish you eat? He said not really we have some local names but there is no translation that exists. So we established that whenever we ordererd food from that point on I asked for ''another fish and some swamp grass'' It was all delicious but I cant tell you what I ate. They have general descriptive names for things while we have very specific names like Trout or Yellow Tail.
So when I read their reply I see the intent and attempt at tyring to catch up to this situation but this thread is like aiming a firehose at a match.
Again they are not culturally accustomed to replacing products, customer service is evolving in China. The best thing the US reps to any foreign company could do is to educate the company about US culture and practices. If your a rep its really your responsibility to cement good ties and relations so a customer in your care will have a positive experience and return in the future.
Americans are, in retail terms, a pain in the *****, own it, its true, its our sterotype.
Very well put..I belive after trying to just comunicate with James here in MD that is a big reason I think they are really slow to respond. Just think if there replies were in Chinese print.
04-18-2013, 06:40 PM
#800
RE: Fly Eagle Jet F-14 Crash (video)
ORIGINAL: jws_aces
Very well put..I belive after trying to just comunicate with James here in MD that is a big reason I think they are really slow to respond. Just think if there replies were in Chinese print.
ORIGINAL: Chris Nicastro
It bears repeating, I was just reading back over the last 4 pages since this is such a hot thread, and read the FEJ post.
If you read it closely and see the basic english used you will realize how they communicate. The level of sophistication of the English to Chinese, or most any Asian language, is solely dependent on the people they have on staff. If a Chinese company has only Chinese employees who have gone to school only in China then their English skills are about as good as ours were when we took French, Spanish, or German in High School.
If they have anyone on staff who has a Western education, work experience, or similar background then their communication skills are much better.
Its been my experience that you have to keep the conversation simple and direct but polite to get your point or concept accross. Its not degrating or belittling or talking down its simply communication and respect for the cultural differences.
When you guys are throwing around slang language, advanced concepts, large technical verbage, you have to understand this is overwhelming to anyone outside of the USA in any language when English is not the primary language.
I'll give another example, might make you ROR, (that means Raugh out Roud)
When I was eating at a restaurant with a factory I asked them what the vegtable plate was. Jim says ''its a type of grass'' ok then what is this fish? '' its a white fish'' So I asked Jim do you have names for each of the kinds of grass and fish you eat? He said not really we have some local names but there is no translation that exists. So we established that whenever we ordererd food from that point on I asked for ''another fish and some swamp grass'' It was all delicious but I cant tell you what I ate. They have general descriptive names for things while we have very specific names like Trout or Yellow Tail.
So when I read their reply I see the intent and attempt at tyring to catch up to this situation but this thread is like aiming a firehose at a match.
Again they are not culturally accustomed to replacing products, customer service is evolving in China. The best thing the US reps to any foreign company could do is to educate the company about US culture and practices. If your a rep its really your responsibility to cement good ties and relations so a customer in your care will have a positive experience and return in the future.
Americans are, in retail terms, a pain in the *****, own it, its true, its our sterotype.
It bears repeating, I was just reading back over the last 4 pages since this is such a hot thread, and read the FEJ post.
If you read it closely and see the basic english used you will realize how they communicate. The level of sophistication of the English to Chinese, or most any Asian language, is solely dependent on the people they have on staff. If a Chinese company has only Chinese employees who have gone to school only in China then their English skills are about as good as ours were when we took French, Spanish, or German in High School.
If they have anyone on staff who has a Western education, work experience, or similar background then their communication skills are much better.
Its been my experience that you have to keep the conversation simple and direct but polite to get your point or concept accross. Its not degrating or belittling or talking down its simply communication and respect for the cultural differences.
When you guys are throwing around slang language, advanced concepts, large technical verbage, you have to understand this is overwhelming to anyone outside of the USA in any language when English is not the primary language.
I'll give another example, might make you ROR, (that means Raugh out Roud)
When I was eating at a restaurant with a factory I asked them what the vegtable plate was. Jim says ''its a type of grass'' ok then what is this fish? '' its a white fish'' So I asked Jim do you have names for each of the kinds of grass and fish you eat? He said not really we have some local names but there is no translation that exists. So we established that whenever we ordererd food from that point on I asked for ''another fish and some swamp grass'' It was all delicious but I cant tell you what I ate. They have general descriptive names for things while we have very specific names like Trout or Yellow Tail.
So when I read their reply I see the intent and attempt at tyring to catch up to this situation but this thread is like aiming a firehose at a match.
Again they are not culturally accustomed to replacing products, customer service is evolving in China. The best thing the US reps to any foreign company could do is to educate the company about US culture and practices. If your a rep its really your responsibility to cement good ties and relations so a customer in your care will have a positive experience and return in the future.
Americans are, in retail terms, a pain in the *****, own it, its true, its our sterotype.
Very well put..I belive after trying to just comunicate with James here in MD that is a big reason I think they are really slow to respond. Just think if there replies were in Chinese print.