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Need help with LIFE batts

Old 04-20-2013, 12:58 PM
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CARS II
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Default Need help with LIFE batts

I have two 2600 2 cells LIFE batts and a 4 cells 5200 LILO, I have read all that I can handle on the subject and I still have questions.

My charger is the Turnigy accucell-6, I haven't use these bats for about a year and I got them about 3 years ago. What I like to know is how do I cycle them ( both LIFE and LILO batts ) what do I have to do to know the capacity? how do I do the cycling on them? I want to be sure that they are still in good conditions and are ok to use.

Thank you in advance.

Old 04-20-2013, 01:11 PM
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CARS II
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Pics of the set up.

Sorry, the last pic is a miss fire
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:18 PM
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kwblake
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Hey Cars. I don't have an answer, but if the plane is tail heavy, go with the regular Bud, instead of the lite. I just couldn't resist.
Old 04-20-2013, 01:30 PM
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CARS II
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Well done Kevin ha ha .

I actually prefer the heavy flavor of Sierra Nevada from Chico, CA [&:] that one will for sure will give me what I'm looking for.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:54 PM
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radfordc
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

The accucel 6 charger has settings for lithium polymer (LIPO), lithium iron (LIFE), and lithium ion (LION)...I don't know what a LILO is?

You can set the charger to do multiple charge/discharge cycles and it will tell you how many milliamps are used in each cycle. I prefer to do the charge and discharge manually. First set the charger to do a full balance charge (set the charge current to no more than 2C). When that is finished set up a discharge cycle...you need to set the discharge rate (up to 1 amp) and the cutoff voltage (I use 6.3 v for a 2 cell LIFE pack). When the discharge cycle is finished the charger will show how many milliamps were discharged. If the milliamp reading is close to the capacity of the battery you are good.
Old 04-20-2013, 02:04 PM
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CARS II
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Rad

Your right it is LION 4c 5200 ma pack, how about this one on the charge and discarge rates.
Old 04-20-2013, 06:18 PM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Rad

Thank you for all you valuable info on the batts, I will get to work on the LIFE batts right away.

thank you again.
Old 04-21-2013, 12:35 PM
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CARS II
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

OK

I did a charging and discharging cycle on one of the packs, it show around 1450ma on the discharge and went up to about 2200 ma on the charge, my batts stickers says it is 2600 ma.

Is 2200ma good for this 3 years old batt?
Old 04-21-2013, 11:44 PM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Yes, many retire batteries to non essential use (servo tester etc) when the charge is 80% of capacity. I have been wrong before so you might want to wait until somebody else agrees/disagrees!
Old 04-22-2013, 07:47 AM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

I agreed with you on the 80% capacity, I was thinking on that last night. I cycle the seconnd one and it only came up half way to capacity, that one is tosted and the LION doesnt want to charge.
Old 04-22-2013, 12:15 PM
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radfordc
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

I would cycle the battery several times and see if the discharge capacity increases. If it stays below 2000mah I probably wouldn't feel good about using them.

I don't have any experience with using LION cells but the principle is the same.
Old 04-22-2013, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Those Lifes are probably fine. You need to discharge them below 6.3 volts to get the rated capacity, or close to it. I would try 2.5 volts per cell, or 5 volts for the pack.

KennyMac
Old 04-23-2013, 06:27 AM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Here is a discharge curve for A123 Life battery. You can see that the battery is completely gone when the pack voltage is down to 6.0v (3v per cell). At 6.3 v the pack is over 90% gone. You can read more info here: http://www.hangtimes.com/a123_batter...iants_faq.html
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:00 AM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Guys
Thank you for the help, I will keep working with the batts to see if I can get them to charge.

Hi Kenny long time no see, how was the Spring flying at the Willow? this is Carlos
Old 04-23-2013, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Hey Carlos, good to hear from you. Willow is always fun.

When the battery mfg rates their packs, they do so with a discharge voltage cutoff well below 3.15v per cell (6.3 volts). To determine whether or not you are getting close to rated capacity, you need to discharge the same as they did when they rated the batteries. This doesn't mean you should go that low when using the batteries normally, only go that low on the discharge curve to determine how the batteries are performing compared to their rated capacity. I stop flying and start charging when either cell in a two cell pack goes below 3.3 volts.

For a discharge to determine battery capacity, I would use 2.5 volts per cell (5 volt for the pack) as the voltage cutoff. Make sure you balance charge when you recharge.
Ken
Old 04-23-2013, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts


ORIGINAL: GR7Racer

When the battery mfg rates their packs, they do so with a discharge voltage cutoff well below 3.15v per cell (6.3 volts). To determine whether or not you are getting close to rated capacity, you need to discharge the same as they did when they rated the batteries.
I guess it depends on what is meant by "close". A Life battery will give over 90% of its capacity at 3.15v/cell. For a 2600mah pack you should see about 2300mah at the 6.3v cutoff. If you continue the discharge to 5v cutoff you should see another 250mah or so. If he discharged the pack to 6.3v and only got 1500mah the pack is in bad shape.
Old 04-23-2013, 10:05 PM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Kenny, Rad

Thank you for your comments, with the graft and your comments I think I'm starting to understand the LIFE batts, good points coming from you guys.

Keep it coming and thanks again.
Old 04-24-2013, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

All good points radfordc. I'm also wondering if Carlos is balance charging the packs. If he isn't, that can adversely affect the capacity of the pack.
Old 04-24-2013, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Great info, Thanks.
Old 04-24-2013, 09:14 AM
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CARS II
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

Kenny

I have, the Turnigy Accucel 6 has a balancer port and I have used it to balance the LIFE batts. I will keep working to get them back to full charge, the one thing I haven't done is charge them under balance charge, I will be working on that this weekend.
Old 05-02-2013, 11:11 PM
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Mikecam
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Default RE: Need help with LIFE batts

You NEED to balance charge them. I balance charge every time. I discharge down to 5.8 volts on all my A123's. At 6.3 volts I would be leaving some mAh in the pack. The 80% rule works for nicd/nimh, I don't use that for life packs mostly because my 5 year old life packs are still within 7% of new.

I would also base the fact of using the batteries or not on how well they balance and how close the balance is when fully charged and fully discharged.

One last thing, your basing your lost mAh on the fact that your battery's would have put out 2600 mAh, my 3, A123 2300 mAh packs put out 2170 mAh when brand new. 5 years later they put out 2020 mAh.

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